Octopus Overlords

pr0ner wrote:

disarm wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:39 am How much difference does the SALT deduction cap make for the someone who lives in a state with high taxes (CT in my case)? My itemized deductions decreased by almost $33k this year. If they had implemented the cap on mortgage interest, I would have been totally screwed this year...

I'm definitely curious how much the effective tax rate and pure dollar amounts paid in taxes changed for those of us in states with high income/property taxes.

I'll try to share some of my own experience without getting too detailed...

The marginal tax rate for my wife and I (married filing jointly) in 2017 was 33%, but my effective tax rate came out to 24%. The high state income and property taxes in CT resulted in me claiming itemized deductions totaling just under $65k.

Our marginal tax rate for 2018 was 35%. This change was the result of two factors...our AGI increased by roughly $50k, putting us in a higher bracket, but the changes to tax brackets for 2018 mean that our new income level has a lower tax rate than I would have paid a year ago. The same income level in 2017 would have put us in the 39.6% bracket. Despite the $50k increase in income, our tax liability increased by only $5700, leaving us with an 2018 effective tax rate of 23%. As a result of limits on SALT deductions for 2018, our itemized deductions totaled only $32k this year (half of 2017).

In our case, the net result of decreases in both marginal tax rate and allowed itemized deductions was essentially breaking even. If the SALT deductions hadn't been capped this year, I think we would have received a much larger return. Too bad we don't live in a different state...

disarm wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:02 am If the SALT deductions hadn't been capped this year, I think we would have received a much larger return. Too bad we don't live in a different state...

Working as intended.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:44 pm

disarm wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:02 am If the SALT deductions hadn't been capped this year, I think we would have received a much larger return. Too bad we don't live in a different state...

Working as intended.

Pushing blue people to turn red states purple?

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:51 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:44 pm

disarm wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:02 am If the SALT deductions hadn't been capped this year, I think we would have received a much larger return. Too bad we don't live in a different state...

Working as intended.

Pushing blue people to turn red states purple?

Punishing blue states.

coopasonic wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:56 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:51 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:44 pm

disarm wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:02 am If the SALT deductions hadn't been capped this year, I think we would have received a much larger return. Too bad we don't live in a different state...

Working as intended.

Pushing blue people to turn red states purple?

Punishing blue states.

Merely a difference of time scale.

Plugged my numbers into TurboTax, and I more or less break even. Did the calculations myself, and I'm about 7k in the hole, even after looking through the instructions for every possible tax break I could think of.

So now I get to either a) eat the TurboTax fee or b) try to find what the hell I missed. Must be something related to retirement plan contributions, I just can't find the right form. Obnoxious.

I just did my 2018 taxes via Turbo Tax. Due to me being only partly employed for the year, I squeaked under the free filing line. Looks like I should be getting something back this year.

NickAragua wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:36 pm Plugged my numbers into TurboTax, and I more or less break even. Did the calculations myself, and I'm about 7k in the hole, even after looking through the instructions for every possible tax break I could think of.

So now I get to either a) eat the TurboTax fee or b) try to find what the hell I missed. Must be something related to retirement plan contributions, I just can't find the right form. Obnoxious.

You don't think eating the TurboTax fee is worth saving $7k and the obvious stress you're facing to find the error yourself?

^ This.

Think of it as in investment so that you can duplicate the broader details yourself in future years.

It's not stress, it's annoyance that I can't figure out what should be a simple problem. Does TurboTax let you see the raw 1040 at any point in time? Chances are, I'll eat the fee this time, but next year...

You see the 1040 at the end.

If taxes were simple, Congress couldn't add loopholes. And I wouldn't get to solve interesting problems and get paid for it.

NickAragua wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:15 am It's not stress, it's annoyance that I can't figure out what should be a simple problem. Does TurboTax let you see the raw 1040 at any point in time? Chances are, I'll eat the fee this time, but next year...

I think you can save your return as a PDF at any point.

TurboTax > View Menu > Forms Mode
Lets you pick any form that has been added to your return and modify individual fields. If you're using the online version, there's probably a different way to get the same info.

I've always wondered why the IRS didn't have it's own online filing system. Now I know.

Just in time for Tax Day, the for-profit tax preparation industry is about to realize one of its long-sought goals. Congressional Democrats and Republicans are moving to permanently bar the IRS from creating a free electronic tax filing system.

Last week, the House Ways and Means Committee, led by Rep. Richard Neal (D-Mass.), passed the Taxpayer First Act, a wide-ranging bill making several administrative changes to the IRS that is sponsored by Reps. John Lewis (D-Ga.) and Mike Kelly (R-Pa).

In one of its provisions, the bill makes it illegal for the IRS to create its own online system of tax filing. Companies like Intuit, the maker of TurboTax, and H&R Block have lobbied for years to block the IRS from creating such a system. If the tax agency created its own program, which would be similar to programs other developed countries have, it would threaten the industry’s profits.

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:22 pm I've always wondered why the IRS didn't have it's own online filing system. Now I know.

Just in time for Tax Day, the for-profit tax preparation industry is about to realize one of its long-sought goals. Congressional Democrats and Republicans are moving to permanently bar the IRS from creating a free electronic tax filing system.

Last week, the House Ways and Means Committee, led by Rep. Richard Neal (D-Mass.), passed the Taxpayer First Act, a wide-ranging bill making several administrative changes to the IRS that is sponsored by Reps. John Lewis (D-Ga.) and Mike Kelly (R-Pa).

In one of its provisions, the bill makes it illegal for the IRS to create its own online system of tax filing. Companies like Intuit, the maker of TurboTax, and H&R Block have lobbied for years to block the IRS from creating such a system. If the tax agency created its own program, which would be similar to programs other developed countries have, it would threaten the industry’s profits.

Taxpayer first indeed.

Zarathud wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:13 am You see the 1040 at the end.

If taxes were simple, Congress couldn't add loopholes. And I wouldn't get to solve interesting problems and get paid for it.

Imagine if you had to pay your credit card bill the way you pay your taxes.

Each month, Visa would send you a blank form. The form would instruct you to gather all your receipts, write down every purchase you had made, and calculate the total amount you owed Visa.

After you sent in your bill, Visa would check its records. If you’d forgotten a receipt and underpaid, Visa would fine you. If you’d made a big enough mistake, you’d go to jail.

This is how Joe Bankman, a professor of tax law at Stanford University, explains the absurdity of paying taxes in America. “If Visa sent you a blank piece of paper each month instead of a bill,” he explains, “you’d say, ‘This is crazy.’ ”

After all, when your employer, bank, or financial manager sends you information about your salary and income, they send it to the government too. The government uses that information during audits. But it could also fill out everyone’s tax forms and calculate their tax bill.

The name for tax filing where the government sends out completed tax forms is return-free filing or pro forma returns. Countries like Sweden and Spain use return-free filing. In Estonia, 95% of taxpayers receive their tax bill online, and many pay with a single click.

“I thought we’d won,” says Bankman. “Now that we knew we could do this, we’d do it for everyone in California, and people in Washington could copy it.” Wealthy people would still have to fill out parts of their returns, and federal taxes came with a few complications: people would still need to list their charitable donations to get a deduction. But filing taxes would be simpler, and Bankman felt he’d done his part to make people “a little less pissed at the government.”

A few days later, a legislator called Bankman to tell him that Intuit’s lobbyists had killed ReadyReturn.

According to the L.A. Times, Intuit spent $1.25 million on lobbyists and gave $2.12 million to 120 California politicians from 2005 to 2010. Bankman says Intuit’s influence was obvious. In one meeting, he says, the legislator told him, “I’ve been warned about you.”

“What Intuit did well was they created a boogieman,” says Dario Frommer. “They said ReadyReturn would put all these accountants out of business, and they organized African-American and Latino accountants against the bill.”

(Frommer and Bankman say this is misleading, since people with enough money to pay an accountant would still appreciate that accountant’s help to claim deductions.)

Full story.

Turns out taxes aren't done yet. Someone didn't fold out the printer "catch stand" so all of my printouts are dropped randomly on the floor, in no particular order. And I'm missing pages. I have to reprint ALL of it tonight.

Congress passes complicated, often poorly drafted and not always thought out tax law -- sometimes as legitimate policy, often for political reasons and sometimes deliberate loopholes. The blame lies with them, not the accountants and tax advisors.

There is a benefit to tax preparation. Our lives are complicated, and everyone's financial situation even more so. Unless you are WILLING to have the IRS gather the personal information about your life and daily activities, like the credit card companies do, you should WANT to prepare the returns yourself.

You should have a personal obligation to come clean about any off-the-books income, and penalties for evading taxes. It may be complicated, but the other options are regular evasion or tyranny.

Zarathud wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:43 pm Congress passes complicated, often poorly drafted and not always thought out tax law -- sometimes as legitimate policy, often for political reasons and sometimes deliberate loopholes. The blame lies with them, not the accountants and tax advisors.

There is a benefit to tax preparation. Our lives are complicated, and everyone's financial situation even more so. Unless you are WILLING to have the IRS gather the personal information about your life and daily activities, like the credit card companies do, you should WANT to prepare the returns yourself.

You should have a personal obligation to come clean about any off-the-books income, and penalties for evading taxes. It may be complicated, but the other options are regular evasion or tyranny.

Other countries do it and tyranny has not been the result. Why can't they fill out what they know and then we modify as needed? That can't be any worse than the current system - the same people who cheat now will cheat under the improved system as well. The rest get an easier return.

The IRS web site does link to a free tax service, at least to a certain income point. The state of California also has free filing, to a certain income point. For those with higher incomes and more complicated returns most would benefit in finding a pro to do their taxes.

stessier wrote:Other countries do it and tyranny has not been the result. Why can't they fill out what they know and then we modify as needed? That can't be any worse than the current system - the same people who cheat now will cheat under the improved system as well. The rest get an easier return.

The US has a tax system with relatively high compliance and is based on individual responsibility to pay your taxes. The EU VAT is pretty oppressive in the behind the scenes paperwork in the name of making life easy for citizens.

When the government "makes it easy" by giving you a number for your income, it incentivizes evasion. For example, do you look up the sales tax that Amazon fails to collect? It's the law but nobody does it. Accept the easy number, and claim ignorance that the number should be higher. Cheating will increase if this bad approach is extended to all income.

With online accounts, tax prep software and the higher Trump standard deduction, most people's income taxes ARE easy. It's trying to qualify for the little extra deductions and credits that are hard. Work for them, if you want them.

The real answer is not a simpler tax form, but simpler and better tax policy. That's not being offered. Just resentment.

Finished my taxes an hour or so ago.

This is probably the earliest I have finished over the last several years.

Guy at the bar paid $18K less this year so of course he's like, "God bless Trump!" (He was of the "Trump is a Nazi" opinion last week).

I emailed our CPA this morning to ask him how much money I need to have in my checking account next Tuesday. No reply yet. Wife gets paid on the 15th, it should be there...but I'm going to have to do the budget ballet after the hammer falls.

Much to my surprise, my return was deposited today...exactly one week after it was was submitted. I was expecting at least another week wait

I guess it would be a good time to start on my taxes, or I could postpone another half day yet.

To my surprise and delight, we are getting refunds from the feds and the state. I had expected to owe the IRS a big check.

Our topline income went up by $5,700, but we managed to show losses in both of our businesses, so our AGI was actually $5,800 below last year, and taxable income fell by $9,000 thanks to the higher standard deduction. Our effective rate for 2017 was 12.3%; that fell to 8.1% in '18.

Our return is 72 pages long with all the worksheets and carryovers and depreciation and whatnot, so I can't even begin to understand all the details -- at least not until I get the hard copy in the mail. But in broad strokes the business losses made most of the difference. We also made somewhere around $1600 in 1040-ES payments due to 2017 underpayment, and our refund is $1700...so we would've been just about right-on with the business losses and without those unnecessary estimated payments.

Because I'm writing off all of my Curio City merchandise, I will have another healthy loss in '19. However, we don't have to make any estimated payments this year. Early this year I filed new W-4s to impose 12.3% withholding on our 2019 income, so I'm fairly confident that we will overwithhold again in 2019 even without the ES payments. However, my income will be significantly higher this year, so I'm not going to knock the W-4s back down.

For 2020 and beyond Kraken will be back to profits, but I'm pretty sure I know how to minimize that because Blue Hills is far simpler than Curio City was. 2020 will probably bring us back to the 12.3% benchmark that I have been using.

But it's all so complicated that who really knows?

We did wind up taking the standard deduction, but since our return still ran to 72 pages IDK if I want to try doing it myself next year.

Congratulations on the two phantom children baked into the standard deduction for filing jointly.

I'm sure tax reform factors in there somehow, but I can't tease it out. Too many other variables. I am prepared to believe that we didn't get an increase, at least. By the time our situation normalizes they'll probably overhaul the rules again.

Zarathud wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:34 pm Congratulations on the two phantom children baked into the standard deduction for filing jointly.

Actually that isn't true. The new standard deduction is almost the same as last years standard deduction plus two exemptions. So you get the exemptions for you and a spouse but no kids. Okay, maybe it's 3/4 of a phantom kid.

As is tradition, I sat down and did my taxes on the last day of the last weekend before the filing deadline, then squared my account with The Man for another year.

Also as is tradition, I took a moment to rue the fact that the government can provide me with PDF forms that allow me to fill in all the information but which won't actually add up the columns of numbers, undoubtedly thanks to the lobbying power of the Tax Preparation Industrial Complex.

For the record, I wound up doing my taxes "manually" with a whole whopping four days to spare. The discrepancy between manual and turbotax calculation turned out to be that I somehow messed up adding all the income off the W2s and gave myself an extra 20k declared income. Once I added it up properly, the numbers came out correct.

I got pretty screwed by the "tax cuts", probably on the order of several thousand bucks, because if I'd been able to claim the full state and local tax amounts, I'd have gone way over the standard deduction. But hey, at least a bunch of megacorps get to pay less in taxes. ::middle finger::

NickAragua wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:03 am I got pretty screwed by the "tax cuts", probably on the order of several thousand bucks, because if I'd been able to claim the full state and local tax amounts, I'd have gone way over the standard deduction. But hey, at least a bunch of megacorps get to pay less in taxes. ::middle finger::

Yeah, this year was the first time in like 20 years that I ended up with the standard deduction.

2019 complete. Effective tax rate - 4.96%.

Stupid HSA means I wasn't able to file for free using Turbo Tax. Everything else was simple. I wish there was a way to e-file if you fill them out yourself. That one form should not end up costing me $84.40.

I hate seeing this thread bubble up to the surface.

I filed/organized/downloaded all my paperwork and filled out the income half of the CPA's questionnaire last week. This week I'll finish the expenses part, and then hand it off to Wife, who will sit on her part for several weeks before I can send it to the CPA. As always, hitting 4/15 will be touch-and-go.

Wife's biggest teaching employer failed to withhold federal income tax for some reason -- they only took $50 out of five-figures income -- so that kicks us into the payout column (yes, I filed a new W-4). But Schwabb overwithheld from our withdrawal from the IRA we inherited, so I hope that will cancel out that. Kraken Enterprises will show one last, large loss because I wrote off all my leftover Curio City merch last summer; that might kick us into the refund column. Wife didn't have any 1099 income last year so I'm not sure we can take the usual home-office deductions. All things considered, I think we're within a thousand bucks one way or the other of breaking even.

Kraken's K-1 income/loss won't be much of a factor in our returns from 2020 on because I'm running Blue Hills to break even.

Heard back from the accountant and for a second year in a row, we're getting a refund. Even better the State of NJ owes me $100 - which is nothing short of amazing. Not sure how much buying and selling a home factored into everything, but even if that was the only reason we're getting a return I wouldn't recommend that strategy at all.

Best of luck to the rest of you (y'all, yins, youse).

Wife has two W-2s and unemployment income, as well as a stint of uninsured time.

I’m in no hurry to start this year.

Besides pulling together our personal information for the CPA, I paid all of my corporate taxes a few weeks ago and sent him my Quickbooks file to do my corporate return. Once I finish our taxes, I have to evaluate whether I can prepare my late BIL's last tax return or if we have to pay someone to do it. Just about the time I get that all out of the way, it'll be time to pay the Q2 payroll taxes. I seem to spend an inordinate amount of time working on taxes.

Our appointment with our accountant is the week after next. Hopefully she's on time, because if she takes the full hour, that leaves us 35 minutes to fetch the boy from school .