Tabletop Randomness

[hepcat]

Cool. Look for me. I’ll be the one being carried on a golden chair by zarathud, Harkonis and Seppe.

[Blackhawk]

Cosplaying Cleopatra this year?

[Zarathud]

He does vary the golden girl costume each year.

[AWS260]

2022: Tabletop giant Asmodee is bought by video gaming behemoth Embracer Group

2024: Embracer loads up Asmodee with nearly $1 billion in debt and spins it off as a separate company

It's certainly a creative solution to the financial challenges of the video game industry: unload their debt onto board games.

[Holman]

Such a joyful sight! My older kid (rising junior in college) is in the house with no fewer than twelve friends for a daylong boardgame session. I just got home and don't know what they've played already, but right now it's DUNE and ROOT on parallel tables.

It's a very mixed crowd, running the whole range from math nerd to art punk. The gender mix is 1/3 male, 1/3 female, 1/3 you'll have to ask.

And to think that I used to worry that my kid was a little too introverted. Games bring people together.

[AWS260]

That's great to hear!

[Holman]

That's great to hear!

It was really nice to see!

In fact it inspired me to take the plunge and commit to an RPG with semi-strangers to which I've been invited. Outside of computer games, I haven't role-played in years. I'm excited now.

[Fardaza]

In fact it inspired me to take the plunge and commit to an RPG with semi-strangers to which I've been invited. Outside of computer games, I haven't role-played in years. I'm excited now.

I haven't done that since a game con in L.A. back in 1992!

None of my old rp friends live anywhere near me, and I'm not sure any of them still play D&D or whatever anyway. The local game store that has regular rp groups is on the second floor of an old building downtown. Unfortunately, the building is so old it doesn't have an elevator. My legs can't make the climb and descent on the stairs. I've only been there once as a result.

[Blackhawk]

In fact it inspired me to take the plunge and commit to an RPG with semi-strangers to which I've been invited. Outside of computer games, I haven't role-played in years. I'm excited now.

I'm jealous! I've scoured the area trying to find anything like that, and nada.

[Holman]

In fact it inspired me to take the plunge and commit to an RPG with semi-strangers to which I've been invited. Outside of computer games, I haven't role-played in years. I'm excited now.

I'm jealous! I've scoured the area trying to find anything like that, and nada.

We're doing this online. I say "semi-strangers" because it's with some people (including the GM) with whom I've interacted on Twitter over the years. I'm not sure any two players are in the same state.

[Redfive]

In fact it inspired me to take the plunge and commit to an RPG with semi-strangers to which I've been invited. Outside of computer games, I haven't role-played in years. I'm excited now.

I'm jealous! I've scoured the area trying to find anything like that, and nada.

!

[TheMix]

In fact it inspired me to take the plunge and commit to an RPG with semi-strangers to which I've been invited. Outside of computer games, I haven't role-played in years. I'm excited now.

I'm jealous! I've scoured the area trying to find anything like that, and nada.

!

He's referring to in-person gaming. Not online.

Edit: Note that BH's reply occurred before Holman noted he was playing online.

[Blackhawk]

In fact it inspired me to take the plunge and commit to an RPG with semi-strangers to which I've been invited. Outside of computer games, I haven't role-played in years. I'm excited now.

I'm jealous! I've scoured the area trying to find anything like that, and nada.

!

Yeah, I meant an in person game.

Not that I haven't had a great time playing online.

[Blackhawk]

Quick Frosthaven question: What makes the character spoilers?

They're hidden, secreted in boxes labeled only with a symbol, and people online go to lengths to mark references to them as spoilers.

Why? Is it just the surprise of what you're getting access to next? Having them secret until needed makes them awfully hard to paint. I suppose I could syringe a few colors into the boxes, shake them really hard, and hope for the best.

[hepcat]

Seeing the character would reveal the race (a clue as to what they'll be like to play), maybe a familiar face that the writer wanted hidden until their story was told, etc..

It's a legacy game. Folks who play legacy games understand that stuff will likely be hidden for a while. If the game has minis, that means minis might be hidden. They're fine with either waiting to paint the mini until after that day's gaming, or never at all (the majority of players, I imagine).

[Blackhawk]

Seeing the character would reveal the race (a clue as to what they'll be like to play), maybe a familiar face that the writer wanted hidden until their story was told, etc..

It's a legacy game. Folks who play legacy games understand that stuff will likely be hidden for a while. If the game has minis, that means minis might be hidden. They're fine with either waiting to paint the mini until after that day's gaming, or never at all (the majority of players, I imagine).

I don't play legacy games as legacy games. It simply doesn't work with how we play games. I've already got the reusable vinyl stickers.

I'm still not entirely sure what info is being hidden. Does it spoil the plot? Does it give away the ending? Or is just for the extra surprise?

[hepcat]

Does it spoil the plot?

Maybe

Does it give away the ending?

Maybe

for the extra surprise?

Definitely

I don't play legacy games as legacy games.

Most people do. The surprise is the draw for them.

[Blackhawk]

Playing a game once and then throwing it away is not a draw for me. Especially when it's the kind of game that I would play with friends, but also play solo.

So... thanks for the maybe.

[TheMix]

From the name? Quite a bit.

Beastmaster...
Sorceress...
Barbarian...
Huntsman...
Bard...

These are (to my knowledge) not classes anywhere. However, from playing Gloomhaven, there are definitely class names that would absolutely give an indication of what to expect from the class.

If you are talking about just the figures, that's probably a little fuzzier. Sometimes it's tough to tell exactly what I'm looking at. However, I also would not want to paint a figure without knowing more about the class. "What? That's a small furry familiar, not a fireball? Oops..."

[hepcat]

Playing a game once and then throwing it away is not a draw for me. Especially when it's the kind of game that I would play with friends, but also play solo.

So... thanks for the maybe.

Why do you have to throw it away?

You asked

Quick Frosthaven question: What makes the character spoilers?

I explained why. Then your issues become more about legacy games in general.

In any case, legacy game doesn't mean disposable game necessarily. Hence the refresh kits that are often available for them.

I don't like skipping ahead to the end of a book because I like surprises. That doesn't mean I might not reread a favorite later on and still enjoy it for the style of writing. So I keep the book.

[Blackhawk]

However, it sounds like games that tell a story aren't your thing. I would avoid any campaign games in light of that.

I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. Hell, I'm not even sure what your point is in this - you didn't explain so much as you pushed the "It's a legacy game" angle, and seem to be suggesting that I am somehow having fun wrong. Play however you like - I'll do the same.

I'm pretty sure that the meaning behind the question was clear: What impact am I going to have on the experience if I open and paint the minis before playing.

[Smoove_B]

I'd say it really depends on the game. Some might have you wondering wtf you're looking at, others would genuinely ruin a surprise or a plot point. I totally get where you're coming from - you want to be ready to go, but I do think (generally) the games benefit from the surprise, whatever it might be. Which either means open the box and play with something unpainted (if you're ready to continue right now) or open the box and now you have something to work on for the next session (whenever that is).

[hepcat]

However, it sounds like games that tell a story aren't your thing. I would avoid any campaign games in light of that.

I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. Hell, I'm not even sure what your point is in this -

Because your issue went from "what would i ruin by opening the minis before the game tells me to" (which I explained...multiple times) to "you have to throw legacy games away, so I don't like them" (which no one said was the case).

I removed the part about not playing campaign games because I realized that might trigger you. But the reason I wrote it was because your reply made it sound like you didn't like legacy games...and legacy games are basically games that derive the majority of their fun from telling a story in which you don't know what will happen.

You yourself noted you had "vinyl stickers" which I took to mean you already know that you could play it again. So I assumed the issue now was that you didn't like playing things for which you already knew the story.

[Zarathud]

There is no reason you can’t open the boxes to get the player boards and paint the figures in advance — without spoiling anything really.

BUT there is some information if you read or think about it. You might be influenced to support one side in an event to unlock Character A over B. Or realize the symbol for a character means you should pursue building a thing associated with that symbol to get the unlock. A few times we’ve realized our character unlocks would be different if we made different decisions. Or realized after unlocking what the symbol meant.

We only play a few missions at each session, so there’s been plenty of time for one of us to paint a figure after it’s unlocked.

[hepcat]

There is no reason you can’t open the boxes to get the player boards and paint the figures in advance — without spoiling anything really.

Well, other than knowing what the figure will look like, which is a large part of the draw for many.

Final thought: if it's your game, do whatever you want with it. If you're fine with spoiling some things because you can't play with an unpainted mini, then go ahead and open them. That should have been the extent of my input.

[Blackhawk]

You yourself noted you had "vinyl stickers" which I took to mean you already know that you could play it again. So I assumed the issue now was that you didn't like playing things for which you already knew the story.

I have yet to even start the game. I'm considering starting it. And I like surprise as much as the next person, but, unlike books, games have more than just the plot. I actually quite like narrative and campaign based games. I prefer them. I just don't want to permanently mark/alter them such that playing them again (without buying replacement components) isn't possible. I play games - including campaign games - over multiple times.

legacy games are basically games that derive the majority of their fun from telling a story in which you don't know what will happen.

That's discounting the progression, the decisions, the combat, overcoming challenges - all of the things that make non-Legacy games fun. I mean, I assume that Legacy games have gameplay and aren't just Choose Your Own Adventure books.

Anyway, I'm not going to sit here all day arguing.

Smoove and Zarathud gave me what I think it was pretty clear that I was after - an understanding of the purpose of them being hidden and the impact of seeing them, enough that I can make a decision regarding how to prepare the game before I play it. I may open one and see just what's involved - like whether I can see character art without reading all of data on the card.

[hepcat]

I will add that their rules about shooting into melee makes sense. You're more likely to hit your companion.

Spoiler:

[Zarathud]

The easiest to unlock is the Trap. But we opened them very late based on our decisions. You will usually know when you’re about to unlock a new character because retirements will unlock new characters.

[hepcat]

Not necessarily. In Frosthaven it seems less new characters and more new buildings are unlocked via retirements. In Gloomhaven it was about the only way to unlock new characters though.

[YellowKing]

For what it's worth, I've always considered the "spoiler" aspect of Gloomhaven/Frosthaven's unlockable classes to be pretty minor. Even though my group abided by it and we didn't open boxes until we unlocked a class, we never really worried much about running across a locked class's official name online or anything. Some people are (unreasonably IMO) super hardcore about it, but I just don't think there's a lot of opportunity to really "spoil" anything unless you purposefully look up class guides or open the box and look through their cards.

The classes play so differently that just knowing the name of something is not going to tell you much of anything about how it actually plays. There are a couple of instances where you might have a choice between two classes to unlock, but I'd argue even if you knew the names of both classes, opened and painted the minis, and even had some idea of the type of class each was, you still wouldn't know enough about how the class actually plays in real life to "spoil" your decision.

To me a true spoiler would require having some piece of knowledge that changes the decisions you make in the game or gives you some advantage, and from my experience the locked classes in GH/FH just don't rise to that level. Every class is viable, so choosing one or the other really doesn't matter a great deal (particularly when you don't know how it actually plays). And even knowing about a locked class ahead of time doesn't do you any good until you actually unlock it.

I've always thought the locked stuff in GH/FH was more about keeping secrets "just for fun." Compared to something like Pandemic Legacy where the secrets are an absolutely crucial part of making the experience play out in a certain way.

[hepcat]

What YK and the rest said. I was grumpy yesterday and came off way too gruff. Sorry about that.

I'm one of the players who enjoys looking forward to finding out something new in a game, so I hate revealing them before they're up to bat. For me, that's a major part of the game's allure. But to each their own.

[Daveman]

I've always liked J.K. Simmons as an actor, and from what interviews I've seen he's always seemed like a decent guy but OMG HE PLAYS BOARD GAMES WITH HIS FAMILY TOO!



Mentions Clank!, Thunder Road: Vendetta, Wingspan and Vale of Eternity.