Solar Power. Talk to me.

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Zaxxon
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Zaxxon »

Around the first of the month we passed 50 MWh in total solar production.

That's enough to drive a Model 3 about 200k miles, or power the average American home for about 5 years, or toast about 4.5 million slices of bread.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by The Meal »

22.7 MWh since Sep 2019.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Zaxxon »

The Meal wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:23 pm 22.7 MWh since Sep 2019.
Noice.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by TheMix »

31.2 MWh (All time)

Last year, you prevented the CO₂ emissions of roughly...
7791 lbs. of coal
289 cylinders of propane used in home BBQs
796 gallons of gas guzzled (doesn't specify what kind)

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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Formix »

I've been enjoying my last few months of $0 power bills, but alas, due to the rains, I had to pay $1.74 last month, and almost $40 this month. Until August, production was up this year over last year. To keep up with the reporting . . .

I've generated 21.7 lifetime MWh,
saved 33,652.6 lbs of CO2, which is the equivalent of
254 trees planted
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by stessier »

I am intrigued -

New solar roof emulates asphalt shingles, right down to the nails
A new solar technology introduced yesterday at CES could bring power-producing roofs mainstream by relying on an old building material—nails.

For years, homeowners who wanted solar power have stripped their old roofs of shingles, added new ones, and then slapped large solar panels on top using sturdy frames. It’s a model that works well, but it also creates a two-step process that engineers have been striving to simplify.

Plenty of companies have offered their own take on solar roofs, but so far, they’ve remained niche products. GAF Energy is hoping to change that with the Timberline Solar Energy Shingle that looks strikingly like typical asphalt shingles. But their key feature isn’t so much that they emulate the look of asphalt shingles, but that they’re installed in nearly the same way. Roofers can slap the flexible sheets down and nail the top strip to the roof, just like they do for traditional roofs.

By relying on the shingle installation process, GAF Energy is counting on the scale of the roofing industry to make solar more accessible. “The roofing ecosystem is 20–30 times larger than solar. In the United States, 200,000–300,000 people get a new solar system each year. Over 5 million get a new roof,” Martin DeBono, CEO of GAF Energy, told Ars. “Our innovation is you now have a nailable solar roof, which fits the way that the majority of roofs are installed.”
I wonder if an HOA would let us put this on the front of the house - would greatly increase our power generation potential as our roof faces West and East.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Zaxxon »

Stessier's bump nudged me to post my 2021 stats:

11.05 MWh generated
15.69 MWh consumed (including vehicles)

Home + 2 vehicles, 70.4% solar-powered. Wish we could fit more panels.

Total production since install (half our panels in 2014, the other half in 2019): 54.1 MWh. That'd power a Model 3 for about 225,000 miles.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by RunningMn9 »

2021 yielded 10.5 MWh, which seems pretty standard for this system in this locale. Since the panels were installed in 2014, they’ve generated 77.8 MWh.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by malchior »

BTW not stats related but for folks interested in microgrids, Enphase just released a microgrid forming microinverter (no batteries required). The new Enphase IQ8+ system has ASICs that'll tap into real-time generation capacity of the panels, match load to generation (via a PLC network), and works if the grid is down. It still requires an external disconnect and an ATS for grid reliability/safety (per NEC and FERC requirements).

Still you can then add in batteries at a later time and/or add a generator for robust power backup. On the battery front they have their own PowerWall competing battery solution as well based on LiFePO4 battery chemistry. Since it is LiFePO4 based some folks are talking that they might be able to use COTS batteries in place of the official Enphase one since it is marked up a fair bit.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Carpet_pissr »

stessier wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:33 pm I am intrigued -

New solar roof emulates asphalt shingles, right down to the nails
A new solar technology introduced yesterday at CES could bring power-producing roofs mainstream by relying on an old building material—nails.

For years, homeowners who wanted solar power have stripped their old roofs of shingles, added new ones, and then slapped large solar panels on top using sturdy frames. It’s a model that works well, but it also creates a two-step process that engineers have been striving to simplify.

Plenty of companies have offered their own take on solar roofs, but so far, they’ve remained niche products. GAF Energy is hoping to change that with the Timberline Solar Energy Shingle that looks strikingly like typical asphalt shingles. But their key feature isn’t so much that they emulate the look of asphalt shingles, but that they’re installed in nearly the same way. Roofers can slap the flexible sheets down and nail the top strip to the roof, just like they do for traditional roofs.

By relying on the shingle installation process, GAF Energy is counting on the scale of the roofing industry to make solar more accessible. “The roofing ecosystem is 20–30 times larger than solar. In the United States, 200,000–300,000 people get a new solar system each year. Over 5 million get a new roof,” Martin DeBono, CEO of GAF Energy, told Ars. “Our innovation is you now have a nailable solar roof, which fits the way that the majority of roofs are installed.”
Soooo, the Tesla roof thing that's been around (but not been around, if you know what I mean!) forever? I was strongly considering solar panels until I saw the Tesla roof tech, then decided I definitely wanted to wait for that instead (especially since I would need a lot of panels, all facing the street). I'm a little surprised it has taken someone this long to actually do something like this (hopefully at scale, as opposed to the Tesla model).
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by malchior »

One caveat is that Tesla is enmeshed in a bit of legal drama over their solar products. I've also heard that sometimes folks have pretty bad 'project management' centered lack of communication experiences with them.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

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malchior wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 3:39 pm One caveat is that Tesla is enmeshed in a bit of legal drama over their solar products. I've also heard that sometimes folks have pretty bad 'project management' centered lack of communication experiences with them.
Yeah, the rollout has not gone well, to say the least, which was only hinted at in my snarky "not been around" comment. I think I signed up for the waiting list at one point, MANY moons ago...have not heard peep back from them. And that was literally many years ago (probably as soon as they started a waiting list).

In fact, I think I recently read that Tesla is killing that project completely, now, no?
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by stessier »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 3:46 pm
malchior wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 3:39 pm One caveat is that Tesla is enmeshed in a bit of legal drama over their solar products. I've also heard that sometimes folks have pretty bad 'project management' centered lack of communication experiences with them.
Yeah, the rollout has not gone well, to say the least, which was only hinted at in my snarky "not been around" comment. I think I signed up for the waiting list at one point, MANY moons ago...have not heard peep back from them. And that was literally many years ago (probably as soon as they started a waiting list).

In fact, I think I recently read that Tesla is killing that project completely, now, no?
Not sure about that, but I know it has never been available in our area (the greater Upstate).
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Zaxxon »

stessier wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 3:53 pm
Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 3:46 pm
malchior wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 3:39 pm One caveat is that Tesla is enmeshed in a bit of legal drama over their solar products. I've also heard that sometimes folks have pretty bad 'project management' centered lack of communication experiences with them.
Yeah, the rollout has not gone well, to say the least, which was only hinted at in my snarky "not been around" comment. I think I signed up for the waiting list at one point, MANY moons ago...have not heard peep back from them. And that was literally many years ago (probably as soon as they started a waiting list).

In fact, I think I recently read that Tesla is killing that project completely, now, no?
Not sure about that, but I know it has never been available in our area (the greater Upstate).
They are definitely not killing the solar roof. Continuing to slowly ramp while exhibiting very poor customer communication skills? Highly likely.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by The Meal »

2021 matched 2020 at 12.0 MWh, putting us at a lifetime production of 26.7 MWh going back to September 2019.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Isgrimnur »

I may not have the panels directly, but my company is supposed to be 100% solar.

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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by The Meal »

Today is our 3-year anniversary since getting the system turned on.

35.7 MWh (sadly, the estimate was 13608 KWH per year, initially, with <0.5% YOY decline)

2019: 2.6 MWh
2020: 12.0 MWh
2021: 12.0 MWh
2022: 9.1 MWh
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Zaxxon »

Wow, I'm surprised the estimate was off by so much.

No special anniversary here rn, but we're at 62.7 MWh in total. First system is just over 8 years old, while the 2nd is coming up on 3.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

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Yeah, if you look back, I had some company come out and quote me one rate, say I would get "double" that(but would not put it on paper :roll: ), and still the price was way higher than I was willing to spend with the buy back for me way to long to make the initial investment worth it.

So I walked away from it. Still think about it from time to time, but old house, and figure if I put more insulation in, that might help keep enerrgy costs down for a lot less. :)
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

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RMC wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:47 am I had some company come out and quote me one rate, say I would get "double" that(but would not put it on paper :roll: )
:law-policered: :law-policered: :law-policered:
Still think about it from time to time, but old house, and figure if I put more insulation in, that might help keep enerrgy costs down for a lot less. :)
Insulation is a huge opportunity for a large %age of homes.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

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Zaxxon wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:52 am
RMC wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:47 am I had some company come out and quote me one rate, say I would get "double" that(but would not put it on paper :roll: )
:law-policered: :law-policered: :law-policered:
Still think about it from time to time, but old house, and figure if I put more insulation in, that might help keep enerrgy costs down for a lot less. :)
Insulation is a huge opportunity for a large %age of homes.
Yup. I hactually heat/cool with Geothermal, which I recommend to everyone that asks. Cut our heating bill in half.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Zaxxon »

That's awesome. We have an air-source heat pump which handles our heating until ambient temps are below freezing, but I would have loved to do ground-source. Maybe next time.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by RunningMn9 »

86.23 MWh since installation in Nov 2014. Surprised I am coming up on 8 years since getting them installed.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by The Meal »

Worked through the last couple years of grid-power bills. Our last full year pre-EV we purchased 5.6 MWh @ 17.5 cents per kWh. Through eight months of being billed while owning an EV, we have had a solar shortfall of 5.0 MWh @ 17.9 cents per kWH (no rate changes, but higher demand charges with the EV charging).

Getting that “extra” 1.6 MWh each year would be worth $290, yearly.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by disarm »

My turn to join the conversation!

As energy prices in CT have continued to rise, and incentives have become generous again, it's finally looking like solar is a financially beneficial move. I've been doing my research and am strongly considering Tesla because I'm very interested in a system with Powerwall. We live in a rural neighborhood and rely on a well for water, so power outages mean we lose running water unless I drag our portable generator outside and feed it fossil fuel. This is inconvenient, noisy and environmentally unfriendly, so a solar/battery system that can keep us in powered through a grid outage is ideal. We also really like the ability to run off battery at night instead of having to pay for electricity...seems like a win-win situation.

To that end, I have an on-site meeting with a local installer (Earthlight Technologies) tomorrow afternoon and will see what they have to offer. They're my first contact because they're a well-regarded local company that just happens to offer Tesla Powerwall. I have the ability to pick someone's brain in person, and get information about a Tesla system without having to give Tesla my information online...and I can compare their offer to Tesla's online quote.

As for specs that I would like to hit, our usage over the past 12 months was about 15,000 kWh, so we're looking at a pretty big system to fully meet our needs. Fortunately, we have a pretty large SE-facing roof to build on. CT regulations allow for 105% of your annual usage (up to 25kW) as determined by the utility company examining a consecutive 12 month period sometime in the last five years. I'm curious to find out what they might allow because our summer usage jumped last year with the addition of a pool; look at something other than the most recent year, and they could unfairly limit us. They do allow increases for anticipated future electric vehicle charging (3300kWh per EV, max two), so I'll probably try to use that to our advantage. Add in two or three Powerwalls, and we're looking at a pretty substantial system, but it will be awesome if we can essentially eliminate our reliance on grid electricity.

As for incentives, we'll be able to take full advantage of the 30% federal tax credit, and CT offers a discount on battery systems and a pretty generous net-metering program that pays a premium above retail electricity cost to encourage solar adoption. The downside to CT's generous net-meter price is that the utility company has final say over the allowed size of a system so they don't really want anyone producing a significant excess to sell back. I guess we'll see how that works out...

Lastly, here's the estimate I get from Tesla for a pretty generous system (current usage plus an anticipated EV) with two Powerwall units. This is my reference point going into my meeting tomorrow...
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

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What s a Powerwall?
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Zaxxon »

Sounds like you're pretty well set on knowing what you want, and that's a sweet net metering deal. Standard advice--get the biggest you can get away with within reason.

I've got a friend who did a similar setup to what you're looking at (smaller PV capacity but two Powerwalls). They were stoked when they spent nearly all of March off-grid. They're in IN, tho, so much less enticing net metering setup (they get wholesale pricng).
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by malchior »

That's a really competitive price @ ~$2.40/W.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

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dbt1949 wrote:What s a Powerwall?
Powerwall is a battery system made by Tesla that allows you to store electricity generated by a solar system for use at times of low generation or power outage. The two Powerwall system (two big wall-mounted batteries) can theoretically power a good size house for a day or two. There are other battery systems on the market, but Powerwall seems to be one of the most proven so far.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

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Thanks!
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by coopasonic »

I randomly looked at some estimates again today. Affordability is up, but payback time is longer than we expect to be in the house so likely still not moving forward. Our next house solar will def be a strong consideration, so I'll check back in 5 or 6 years from now.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

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malchior wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 7:35 pm That's a really competitive price @ ~$2.40/W.
Yeah, and that's before the Powerwall bundle discount. Kind of crazy. Keep the PV price at $2.40/W and apply the bundle discount to the Powerwalls, which means they're effectively $9,250 each, installed. All this before the 30% ITC. All-in price of $2/W for 18 kW and 2 Powerwalls?

Wish I could sign that deal. :ninja:
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by malchior »

The deal with the powerwall makes it even better. Though you couldn't pay me to put a NCM based battery system on/in my home. I've been watching the Enphase system prices because I will probably eventually add them on to my build.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

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Zaxxon wrote:
malchior wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 7:35 pm That's a really competitive price @ ~$2.40/W.
Yeah, and that's before the Powerwall bundle discount. Kind of crazy. Keep the PV price at $2.40/W and apply the bundle discount to the Powerwalls, which means they're effectively $9,250 each, installed. All this before the 30% ITC. All-in price of $2/W for 18 kW and 2 Powerwalls?

Wish I could sign that deal. :ninja:
In light of that Tesla quote, I'm really curious to see what the guy coming tomorrow can offer... seems like it will be tough to do better...

That Tesla quote does contain one discount that I forgot to comment on earlier, which may not be quite as large as they say. There is a $7k reduction in the price included for Connected Solutions. That's a Connecticut program where the utility company discounts the cost of battery storage systems by $200/kWh installed up to $7500, and pays an annual perform incentive if you agree to send power from your battery back to the grid during high demand times. If I go with a system with two Powerwalls, that's a guaranteed $5400 discount. The other $1600 is Tesla's prediction of incentive payments over the next 10 years... something I only receive if I allow the power company to steal from the batteries that I would be installing as emergency backup. I'm not sure that's something I'm willing to do, so price might be slightly higher (but still seems like a good deal).
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by malchior »

Great gravy. My 17.7 kW system is exceeding my expectations in every way. I'm up nearly +300 kWh for the year already even though I've charged my car 1.651 MWh to date this year.

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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

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Sweet sassy molassey! Impressive.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Jeff V »

Sunrun has been giving our 'hood the hard sell lately. For awhile now, I considered <$100/mo average electric bill to be the tipping point as to whether I should even entertain in conversation. Dude that came by said $40, which of course is a ridiculous number meant to get his foot in the door.

Our annual average continues to be around $80, mostly because wife complains it's cold when it's 85 in the house. Our highest electric bill the past 5 years has been about $130 in July.

Some questions to those of you who have gone ahead with this -- does your homeowners insurance go up? Who pays when panels are damaged in a storm? I got a new roof a few years ago thanks to a nasty storm, and still waiting on the punchline from a recent storm that shelled us with tennis-ball sized hail. Also, when the system has run its course in 20 years, do they upgrade it? Or is it up to the homeowner to have it removed? Thirdly, is any deals transferrable if the house is sold? I can't imagine any additional liability adding to the value of the home, and now it seems likely we (or my wife if I don't last that long) will sell the house within 20 years.

I've asked these questions in our subdivision's FB group and it appears none have thought to ask these questions.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by naednek »

So this post will probably drive Zaxxon nuts :D

In October 2018 we bought the house we now live in. The previous owner leased the solar panels that we have now. We took over the remainder of the lease, which in total was a 10 year lease.

Today I got the notice from SunPower that our lease is expiring in August and gave us the amount it would cost to flat out purchase, or how much it would cost to extend the lease by another 10 years.

They offered $11,500 to buy the system, or $52 a month to lease for 10 more years.

The system is 3.4 kw and the system is in the form of tiles.

I had called SunPower with questions. Questions I've been trying get answered for the last year in a half. Such as
When will I know the terms when my lease ends
If we decide not to buy out or continue the lease do you pick up the equipment and replace the tiles
How big was my system.

Each time the agent didn't know the answers to.
I called today and had asked the same questions, and they couldn't find my lease at first even though I provided my lease # and other info.

They said they would have to have a certain department to call me with the answers to my questions. I left frustrated. I have a friend who is a VP of a national solar company and I reached out to him about my possible options.

He told me I would be crazy to renew or buy out. He said I could get close to the same kw for the same price and get the tax credit. SunPower is milking people who are naïve.

He recommend to call their bluff and they will either lower the cost greatly or even abandon it as it would cost too much to remove.

So that's what I'm doing now is to tell them to pound sand and see where it goes. Worst case scenario we start new. A neighbor had this happened and he told them he's not buying or extending, and they dropped the price to $3300 from 10,000+

What bugs me by buying it (assuming the price is right) is the system isn't really efficient due to the panel type.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Zaxxon »

Solar leases are for the birds. I feel your frustration. Calling their bluff seems like the right call to me--that price for that system is absurd.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by naednek »

Zaxxon wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:50 pm Solar leases are for the birds. I feel your frustration. Calling their bluff seems like the right call to me--that price for that system is absurd.
holy cow, you're faster than Isgrimnur when you state his name :D
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