System Shock Remake

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JCC
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Re: System Shock Remake

Post by JCC »

Octavious wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 2:07 pm SS2 was a scary ass game. The monkeys in the distance was terrifying to me as a kid. I haven't been paying too much attention to this. Are they remaking 1 and 2? Or just 1? I don't think I ever really played 1.
I thought the answer was "just System Shock" but some googling indicates Night Dive is working on a System Shock 2 remake.
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Re: System Shock Remake

Post by Grifman »

JCC wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 2:25 pm
I thought the answer was "just System Shock" but some googling indicates Night Dive is working on a System Shock 2 remake.
That’s not entirely accurate. They are working on a System
Shock 2 Enhanced Edition. This will take the basic SS2, and add to it a number of the best SS2 mods, including new weapon models, new enemy models/textures, and some enhanced textures, community patches and I think achievements:

https://www.engadget.com/heres-a-first- ... 11981.html

Last edited by Grifman on Mon May 22, 2023 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: System Shock Remake

Post by Daehawk »

I could see System Shock 1 & 2 being remade in the Cyberpunk 2077 engine or Unreal 5 engine.
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Re: System Shock Remake

Post by malchior »

IIRC they released a SS "1" remake a few years back.

Update: They released a SS: Enhanced Edition in 2015.
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Re: System Shock Remake

Post by JCC »

Grifman wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 5:23 pm That’s not entirely accurate. They are working on a System
Shock 2 Enhanced Edition. This will take the basic SS2, and add to it a number of the best SS2 mods, including new weapon models, new enemy models/textures, and some enhanced textures, community patches and I think achievements:
Ah, my mistake, thanks for the info. Bummer. I would love a full remake.
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Re: System Shock Remake

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Re: System Shock Remake

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I'm looking forward to it, although I don't love the weird hybrid pixelated/modern look.
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Re: System Shock Remake

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Blackhawk wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 1:19 pm I'm looking forward to it, although I don't love the weird hybrid pixelated/modern look.
Yeah, I either didn’t pick up on that in the videos, or it was more jarring while playing, but I tried the demo and this dichotomy really stands out.

It’s not a game killer I don’t think, but I assumed it was going to be much higher res/completely remastered or remodeled, but nay.

I will still play it, but just be aware that this is not like …Black Mesa for example, or some complete makeover mods using script extenders where the whole graphics engine gets an overhaul. It’s…selective.
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Re: System Shock Remake

Post by Grifman »

First review and it seems pretty positive:

https://www.theverge.com/23738938/syste ... ive-review
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Re: System Shock Remake

Post by Grifman »

Another one, apparently they are coming out starting this weekend:

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/system-shock-review

I’ve seen several today and they all seem pretty favorable. It’s been a long journey but I am looking forward to playing.
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Re: System Shock Remake

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Re: System Shock Remake

Post by Grifman »

Blackhawk wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 1:19 pm I'm looking forward to it, although I don't love the weird hybrid pixelated/modern look.
I like it - it is different but maybe that's why I feel the way I do. It certainly doesn't bother me, but YMMV.
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Re: System Shock Remake

Post by Rumpy »

I thought I heard that could be turned off in the options?
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Re: System Shock Remake

Post by hepcat »

The download size of the game is around 4 gigs, so I doubt the pixelated lo-res look was purely an aesthetic choice.

Still, I got it and I’m enjoying it. It’s a classic I never actually finished. I’m hoping to rectify that.
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Re: System Shock Remake

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I finished the original when it was new out. Took me a while as those graphics were sometimes hard to see what was what...like a door or an elevator. Id pass it right up multiple times not seeing it different from a wall panel lol. The map didn't help me at all. I will play it again in this form when I can afford it...money and price have to meet in a certain area for me.
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Re: System Shock Remake

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Re: System Shock Remake

Post by Daehawk »

I cant find my original System Shock box game. Damn. Must have been missing for decades and I didn't notice. That hurts. Thats like 30 years back lol.
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Re: System Shock Remake

Post by Blackhawk »

I'm playing it, and I'm enjoying it quite a bit. It's very faithful to the original, enough so that I can recognize specific corridors from the original version (which I last played about six or seven years ago.)

The lighting and atmosphere are great, and the controls aren't bad. They don't stand out, but they don't have any glaring flaws, either. They did go with the weird modern-pixelated effect I mentioned earlier, and I am very much not a fan. It's not a game killer, but it is a poor choice. Using modern graphics while also forcing in retro-nostalgia just doesn't work for me. It's supposed to be an immersive game about exploring a space station where something has gone terribly wrong, and constantly being reminded that it was a 90s video game really hurts that for me.

Here, great modern atmospheric graphics (spoiler tags just to reduce image spam):
Spoiler:
Image

Image
Combined with this (note the gloves as well as the tray in the first image):
Spoiler:
Image
Image
At the same time, it's sometimes too faithful, and stuck with some elements of gameplay from 1994 that are best forgotten. Inventory is extremely limited, and I hope you like backtracking - a lot. And absolutely nothing is explained, no matter how complex the system. The best you're going to get is an actual manual in the install folder, and it's all done in-universe (IE - it's a Tri-Optimum employee manual.) It explains some, but not enough to actually understand some elements. The wire puzzle, for instance - I have yet to figure out the logic behind it. There's a logic that would allow me to actually figure out the puzzles, but it's so buried that I'm just getting them through trial and error. I think it has something to do with the number of power lights on the plug multiplied by the number of inputs that actually hit the capacitor, but I'm still not completely sure.

Now, I'm jaded and tend to criticize more than praise, so let me be clear: I'm a fan. I like this game. It's a great, faithful remake, and it plays well. They just made a few choices that I don't really care for.
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Re: System Shock Remake

Post by JCC »

Yeah, I am sure I will get this at some point, but I think the mix of graphics is a poor choice. And, I am worried they didn't modernize the annoying 90's mechanics enough. Waiting for the bargain bin and/or more desire to play it than I currently have.
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Re: System Shock Remake

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Any of you tried to customize your controls. Like anyone use arrows for movement mixed with some numpad and page down end and del stuff and right shift and right ctrl and such?
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Re: System Shock Remake

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I've customized my controls with no issues, but I haven't used the arrow keys since my first or second shooter (and not many people do - not enough other keys nearby), and I don't actually have a number pad anymore.
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Re: System Shock Remake

Post by Grifman »

Original developer plays the game:

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Re: System Shock Remake

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I’ve gotten to the final level in this and enjoy it a lot but not without some complaints. I do think the game is a little too faithful to the original at times. I am fine with solving puzzles and exploring but the game should at least take 5 seconds to explain its mechanics. Feedback in general is lacking, early on I spent a lot of time just randomly clicking things in the environment because buttons and wall decorations are very similar looking. This did find me a hidden door once, so that was neat.

The worst offender for player feedback is the electricity puzzles. You need to fill the electricity to a specific level, no higher, no lower. To do this you need to plug in outlets that have 1 or 2 power and then open and close pipes. Junctions multiply the current. The game does not tell you any of this! It also doesn’t tell you when you fail. I spent a good 30 minutes in the first level lost because I thought I had solved the puzzle when in reality it just gave me no feedback that I had failed.

The game is also way harder than most modern games. You can absolutely screw yourself and run out of ammo. In theory you have unlimited lives and ammo for electricity weapons but if you find yourself relying on those two things alone you are going to have a very tedious time running back from the respawn rooms every time you die.

I do still recommend the game though. It takes me back to a style of game that just doesn’t get made much anymore. It’s engaging in a way that makes me feel like I did when I first got into computer games back in the 1990’s.
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Re: System Shock Remake

Post by Lordnine »

I finished the game tonight. Still recommend but that final "boss" is probably the worst boss fight I have ever seen in a game. I don't even know how it got greenlit, it was like they let an intern work on it for 30 minutes and then said yep that is good enough, lets ship it!

It makes me a little sad that all of the System Shock games are amazing but have terrible final fights.
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Re: System Shock Remake

Post by Blackhawk »

So, am I understanding correctly that there's no weapon degradation/breaking? I've been hoarding duplicate functioning weapons.
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Re: System Shock Remake

Post by Lordnine »

Weapons never degrade. Given how limited your inventory space is you will want to drop those before too long. I did find it helpful in the early game to keep two pistols, each with a different type of ammo that way I could quickly swap between them based on the enemy type I was facing. Later in the game you will have more weapon types than you can carry though. Pick and choose your favorites! Mine was a fully upgraded Magnum. That thing never let me down no matter what I was fighting.
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Re: System Shock Remake

Post by Daehawk »

You dont have to carry 2 pistols for different ammo. You can simply switch ammo type with the T key I think it is like the old original game. I kept the phaser like pistol as backup cause it was strong vs robots and such and had a good charge.

But Im remembering the original game and maybe they changed stuff.
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Re: System Shock Remake

Post by Blackhawk »

You can still switch, but it might be faster to switch between differently loaded Pistols, at least until space becomes a problem.

As for the duplicates, into the recycler they go!
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Re: System Shock Remake

Post by Blackhawk »

As far as modernizing, I really, really wish that there was an option to make notes on the map. There is only one map marker, and you can place any number of them, but they all look the same and don't have any info attached to them. The corridors, rooms, and doors are repetitive(which is fine in and of itself - this is a space station), and it is a pain trying to remember which of the ten doors is which, or remembering that there was one room that had a locked door, but not which one.
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Re: System Shock Remake

Post by Lordnine »

I had the same complaint about that one. I ended up using a system where 1 marker meant come back here, and 2 markers meant I had cleared the room.

I vaguely recall reading somewhere that they are looking at adding a note feature with a patch.

Also, regarding taking notes… this is technically a spoiler, but I strongly recommend you read it anyways if you want to save yourself about 30 minutes of backtracking near the end of the game.
Spoiler:
When you destroy the security nodes on each floor there will be a nearby monitor that will display a number. Write down the floor you are on and the number that is displayed. You will need this combo later and the code is randomized to each players game so you cant look this code up even if you wanted to.
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Re: System Shock Remake

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I like that idea for multiple marks. I'm fine with leaving cleared rooms unmarked, but I'll likely use one for 'return' and 2 for 'something important.'

Thanks for that. I'll have to backtrack to get the one from Medical, but I was missing one camera there anyway.

It's a chance to try out the new Steam note taking system.
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Re: System Shock Remake

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Blackhawk wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2023 12:11 pm So, am I understanding correctly that there's no weapon degradation/breaking? I've been hoarding duplicate functioning weapons.
So, after hauling them all the way to the recycler, I discovered that they cannot be recycled. Or vaporized. They literally serve no purpose unless you're wanting to run multiple of the same gun.
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Re: System Shock Remake

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I was getting annoyed at not finding a single hidden door despite there supposedly being a number of them, so I did some poking around. Out of all of the things that they refused to change, they changed the hidden doors to remove all of the hints.

A hiden door in System Shock 2023 (shot so as to remove spoilers):

Image

A hidden door in the original:

Image

Ignore that it's slightly open, that's not the standard. Instead, look at the blue glow that all of the doors originally had. They removed that, meaning that you have to run around hitting 'use' on every wall and floor, hoping to get lucky, Doom style. Not a fan of that change.
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Re: System Shock Remake

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God thats horrible.
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Re: System Shock Remake

Post by Lordnine »

I only found 1 hidden door in the whole game and I found it by accident really early on. I did find a couple of their weird mascot things. I don't think they do anything though.
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Re: System Shock Remake

Post by Blackhawk »

<hagrid>
I shouldn't've pushed that button. I should not have pushed it.
</hagrid>

Oops.
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Re: System Shock Remake

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I am deeply disliking their implementation of the cyberspace/hacking system. It's like playing a really bad game of Descent with trial-and-error segments where dying forces you to start over. And over. And over.
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Re: System Shock Remake

Post by Blackhawk »

When you encounter biohazards in the game, you get a reading on screen of the contamination level. That level is measured in LBP. 12 LBP. 23 LBP. You get the idea. It was that way in the original, too.

When they made the original game, they created their acronyms and naming conventions on the fly. The model numbers for the guns, for instance, were the dev team's initials (the ML-41 was Marc LeBlanc.)

I was watching a video earlier of LeBlanc himself playing the remake, and he revealed that LBP originally stood for Lord British Penises.

So stay out of that crawl space - nobody wants to die from overexposure to LBPs!
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Re: System Shock Remake

Post by Lordnine »

Blackhawk wrote: Wed Jun 28, 2023 4:24 pm I am deeply disliking their implementation of the cyberspace/hacking system. It's like playing a really bad game of Descent with trial-and-error segments where dying forces you to start over. And over. And over.
I didn’t love the cyberspace sections, but I did start to get pretty good at them by the end of the game. Circle strafe and never stop shooting, just hold down the attack button the whole time. There shouldn’t be any trial and error, you have to clear the whole level and if you try to go the wrong way down a tunnel it won’t let you. The only thing you really need to be careful about is when they pack some of the corridors with those stationary landmines. You do have to get your timing down for those as you will not have time to kill them and instead need to dodge the columns.

Note that at least on normal difficulty there is no penalty for hitting walls, so it is often best to hug the walls and intentionally drive into them to slow you down.
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Re: System Shock Remake

Post by Blackhawk »

Slowing down helps a lot with the mines. My biggest problem has been the tiny rooms and them spawning enemies behind you (and that's the trial and error I was talking about - learning where the surprise enemies are going to show up behind you in the middle of a fight.)

On the first one in Medical, I made the mistake of backing out of a room when they started to spawn (you know, the smart thing to do - pull back and use the choke point.) That resulted in the barrier closing in front of me rather than behind, breaking the level and forcing me to start over.
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