Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

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GreenGoo
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Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by GreenGoo »

Hey all,

I'm thinking about making a project of my backyard for something for my eldest and I to do together. We need a lot of help, knowledge-wise.

I'm wondering if anyone has any interest in giving gardening advice to us. We need help with plant identification, best practices, how to remove unwanted plants or weeds, and pretty much everything in general.

My backyard is practically a wild field (in suburban size format). I had intended to bring in a company and redo the whole thing, but maybe my son and I can start with small, achievable jobs with the long term goal being a presentable area.

I haven't taken any pictures of plants or anything yet. I wanted to know if the hivemind is willing to be involved first, as there isn't a single question that we're looking for a specific answer, but a whole host of information we need.

As a starting question, if we wanted to remove some broad leaf weeds and backfill with grass, what would be the first step? Soil here is pretty poor, with lots of clay in places where erosion and whatnot has stripped some of the soil.

The backyard has different problems in different areas. I figure this might be a decent place to start.
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by Kraken »

If the end goal is a garden, don't plant grass. It will just become one more unwanted plant to get rid of.

IDK anything about TX ecology so probably won't be of much help. My general advice is to start with a specific plan. Are you going to grow vegetables? flowers? ornamentals? all of the above?
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by Smoove_B »

Might be hard to get good information without knowing or understanding your local details. Not that I'm suggesting you can or should share information, but so much gardening advice comes down to things like the amount of sun, temperature, soil conditions, etc...

That said, it sounds like you are probably going to need something like a "bush hog" or a brush cutter to cut through all the organic material first. Some might suggest using a string-trimmer instead, but as someone that has done that, (1) it sucks and (2) it takes forever.

After that, you're probably going to need a rototiller to then aerate the soil and help prepare it for topsoil and seeding. I'd strongly recommend some type of hydroseed application where they mix seed, feteriler and media together and then spray it on the ground.

None of this addresses the type of grass or how it could impact drainage or runoff in your back yard - those are important considerations. Going from overgrowth with woody wees to just grass is better than trying to add hardscapes, but runoff might be an issue depending on the topography.

I'd also encourage you to think about keeping some areas (perhaps constructed beds) where you encourage wildflower growth - not to just 100% convert a diverse field area into a monocultured lawn. Think of the bees!

Not sure if you can rent the equipment above (probably), but you'd likely still then need a contractor to come in and apply the topsoil and seed. Sure, you might be able to do it yourself, but here I'd probably look to a local laborer that has knowledge of where to get good soil and what seed or seed mix to use to encourage the best growth in your part of the globe.

I guess my final advice is to make sure you're aggressively monitoring for ticks during this entire process of work. Like...making sure you and your son are checking yourselves (and perhaps each other) after working on this. Yes, you should wear insecticides, but ticks are the worst. The worst.

I won't monopolize the discussion - hopefully that gets you started.
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by GreenGoo »

All excellent questions.

I'm in Ontario Canada so our growing season is relatively short. May through September I guess.

The entire backyard could use a facelift. We do have a couple of areas of thick grass with few weeds, but overall....oy.

We don't have a plan and quite frankly creating a plan for the entire yard is simply too much for us at this point. I will probably section off parts of the yard to act as individual projects. Right now my biggest priority is reclaiming areas of wild weeds and plants that often grown to waist height by fall. Yes, I know. Judge away, I deserve it. In fairness, my front yard is presentable, if not immaculate. Shabby, but not abandoned, is how I see it. :oops: Looks ok after a fresh mowing.

I don't even know what most of the plants are at this point.
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by Smoove_B »

:D

I make no judgements - I have been actively petitioning to turn some of our front lawn into wildflower beds for a multitude of reasons. I've been voted down, but I'm going to campaign for it again.

Depending on the conditions, grass can really be a pain - watering, fertilizing, controlling weeds, etc... Some grow great without any additional work. But so many require all kinds of effort. I think that's where things get awful.
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by The Meal »

Raised beds of some sort may be best. They’d give you a chance to start anew, most quickly. If you’re thinking an edible garden, they’d also provide rabbit protection.
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by GreenGoo »

Smoove_B wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 3:30 pm Might be hard to get good information without knowing or understanding your local details. Not that I'm suggesting you can or should share information, but so much gardening advice comes down to things like the amount of sun, temperature, soil conditions, etc...

That said, it sounds like you are probably going to need something like a "bush hog" or a brush cutter to cut through all the organic material first. Some might suggest using a string-trimmer instead, but as someone that has done that, (1) it sucks and (2) it takes forever.

After that, you're probably going to need a rototiller to then aerate the soil and help prepare it for topsoil and seeding. I'd strongly recommend some type of hydroseed application where they mix seed, feteriler and media together and then spray it on the ground.

None of this addresses the type of grass or how it could impact drainage or runoff in your back yard - those are important considerations. Going from overgrowth with woody wees to just grass is better than trying to add hardscapes, but runoff might be an issue depending on the topography.

I'd also encourage you to think about keeping some areas (perhaps constructed beds) where you encourage wildflower growth - not to just 100% convert a diverse field area into a monocultured lawn. Think of the bees!

Not sure if you can rent the equipment above (probably), but you'd likely still then need a contractor to come in and apply the topsoil and seed. Sure, you might be able to do it yourself, but here I'd probably look to a local laborer that has knowledge of where to get good soil and what seed or seed mix to use to encourage the best growth in your part of the globe.

I guess my final advice is to make sure you're aggressively monitoring for ticks during this entire process of work. Like...making sure you and your son are checking yourselves (and perhaps each other) after working on this. Yes, you should wear insecticides, but ticks are the worst. The worst.

I won't monopolize the discussion - hopefully that gets you started.
First, thanks for taking the time, Kraken and Smoove. Much appreciated.

Right now I don't need a bush hog, but I have considered it come fall in the past. Heavy duty whipper snipper at the least. Maybe not commercial heavy duty, but something stronger than the light models.

I'm in Ottawa, so weather conditions are whatever that is. Sunny and hot during the summer (pushing 34-35C at times, hotter with humidity). Soil conditions...not sure I even have the language or knowledge to convey this successfully. We have 4 very large pines that offer some shade at different times of the day, but a lot of direct sunlight too.

Rototiller. Got it. I can rent one. Do I need to do anything to the plants/weeds or can I just plow them under? Will they just find their way to the surface again?

Hydroseed. Will look into it.

I fully agree with biodiversity. I have no plan to create a single field of a single grass plant. In fact biodiversity is how I sleep at night when I look at my yard. :D My neighbour has tried to get me to chop down my 60 year old pines because they have needles that make their way to his property, which is a perfectly manicured uniform colour of green. Not happening.

We get a ton of wildlife, from butterflies to bees, to cardinals and blue jays to squirrels and chipmunks to the endangered mosquito ( :shifty: )

Grading isn't great in the backyard. At some point I'll need to work on that, but not right now. As I said, probably not doing the entire yard right now, just pet projects for my son and I, so I'm not too worried about needing to bury everything in the future to get the grade up to par.

My ideas, which aren't much at all, are just to section off the yard for work projects. Maybe clean up an area and have grass, clean up another area and plant some veggies (just to have done it/for the experience). Perhaps similar with flowers. Truthfully I'm overwhelmed when I think about the yard as a whole.

I'd like to hold off on hiring anyone for now. It's possible that I'll hire a company to redo everything next year, but for right now, I just want my son and I working outside with some nature.

Again, much appreciated!

Oh, I have some ferns taking over one area. I'd like to transplant some to the front to grown along the front of the house. Good/Bad/Untenable idea? How would I go about doing that, if it's something worth doing?
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by GreenGoo »

The Meal wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 3:47 pm Raised beds of some sort may be best. They’d give you a chance to start anew, most quickly. If you’re thinking an edible garden, they’d also provide rabbit protection.
Brilliant. Thank you!
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by GreenGoo »

Wasn't sure the best way to share these. I'm :oops: just to post them. Link to a couple of photos.

OO Backyardigans
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by The Meal »

Enlarge Image

You can see our raised bed to the right of our deck. The ground level is just a few cinderblocks surrounded by bricks and filled with soil. The two-by-four wooden fence is very much something that (looks like) a sixth-grader put together. We've got a second nearly identical garden area off to the left side of the deck, out of frame.
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by Smoove_B »

GreenGoo wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 3:59 pm I'm in Ottawa, so weather conditions are whatever that is. Sunny and hot during the summer (pushing 34-35C at times, hotter with humidity). Soil conditions...not sure I even have the language or knowledge to convey this successfully. We have 4 very large pines that offer some shade at different times of the day, but a lot of direct sunlight too.
There's all kinds of different grasses that tolerate shade/direct light, moisture, soil pH, etc... In my state we have cooperative extension offices - publicly funded county-level organizations that serve as resources for farming and gardening. They can tell you about the soil in your area (using survey maps) and will also test samples you give to them and make recommendations. Not sure if you have have access to similar groups, but they might be able to help. In my experience they're highly under-utilized and the people working/volunteering there are always happy to help with anything gardening related.

Failing all that, there are some seed blends that will grow grass just about anywhere if you follow the directions for watering and coverage. I'm still a fan of hydroseeding as I've seen the magic it can perform, but if it's a cost issue picking up versatile blends and doing all the labor yourself can work. Typically what you're going to find locally (at a hardware store, ag supply store, big box store) is going to be something that should grow locally.
Rototiller. Got it. I can rent one. Do I need to do anything to the plants/weeds or can I just plow them under? Will they just find their way to the surface again?
Yeah, it will kill most but not all of the weeds. The goal would be to rototill and then get grass growing ASAP to out-compete the weeds that would try and grow back. Some always will but eventually you should be able to get dense enough grass that the weeds won't stand a chance (other than whatever spot treatments you'd need to do, if necessary). I let dandelions grow on my lawn (I'm that neighbor) and IDGAF that they're all over the place.
Oh, I have some ferns taking over one area. I'd like to transplant some to the front to grown along the front of the house. Good/Bad/Untenable idea? How would I go about doing that, if it's something worth doing?
Ferns can be...delicate? Not sure if that's the right word. They can be transplanted but you'd want to identify the type first and verify the kind of conditions they'd like - sun/shade in particular. Not sure if you'd have to wait until the Fall to replant or you can do it now in Spring - depending on the type.

Still cool that you're motivated to do all this and have a helper. :D
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by Isgrimnur »

The Meal wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 3:47 pm Raised beds of some sort may be best. They’d give you a chance to start anew, most quickly. If you’re thinking an edible garden, they’d also provide rabbit protection.
But insufficient for moose.
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by em2nought »

I think this guy has some good ideas https://www.youtube.com/@Selfsufficientme
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by Kraken »

When I suggest mapping it out, I don't mean that you have to execute on a detailed plan, just map out your microenvironments and choose plants that will be happy there. If you want to grow veggies, for example, you want raised beds in direct sunlight. I don't know of any vegetables that like shade. So block out your sunny section for that. If there's an area that floods, think about a fountain or scum pond. Grass is versatile enough to go almost anywhere if you choose the right varieties. Also think about walkways between sections.

I would not just till all the weeds under. Well, yes I probably would, but it's not optimal. Most of them can grow back from little pieces of root and they'll thank you for distributing their seeds. Ideally hire someone to replace your topsoil so you can start with a blank canvas, although that kind of negates the DIY aspect and will cost money.

I know next to nothing about flowers or landscaping or even lawns, so I'm just going to chime in when vegetables come up.
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by Isgrimnur »

Image
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by Kraken »

Carrots and radishes are the only vegetables on that list that I've ever tried to grow. Since they and the greens are cool-weather crops, it makes sense that they'd tolerate or prefer shade.

Let's put it another way: Most flowering vegetables prefer direct sunlight. If you want to grow tomatoes, peppers, squash, eggplant, or beans, give them full sun.

BTW, while homegrown tomatoes, summer squash, and beans put their store-bought kin to shame, fresh peppers, winter squash, and eggplants are nothing special apart from the satisfaction of having grown them.
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by Jeff V »

#1 - eradicate invasive species, like dandelions.
#2 - I'll let you know once I achieved #1 -- I've only been in this house for 6 years.
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by GreenGoo »

Thanks guys!

This is going to be a multi-month project and I won't be able to work on it every day, but I'll keep you informed of any (even small) progress I make.
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by GreenGoo »

I've been looking at cordless grass trimmers. Ryobi specifically because I already have a couple of batteries that are compatible (40v and 18v).

Any opinions? Home Depot lists like 40 different varieties (ok, maybe 10. Still too many and causing decision paralysis).

I was thinking about something like this.

Ryobi 18v 13in trimmer

Enlarge Image

There are others. I don't think I need the 40v one, at least not more than once at the beginning, so I thought I'd get something fairly sturdy, but not industrial.

Anyone have any guidance?
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by Daehawk »

I like Ryobi. Its what I buy when I need a cordless powered tool of some kind.
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by dbt1949 »

Get a couple of sheep/goats and don't worry about it. BTW goats rarely eat grass but will everything else. And they had a lot of wars in the olde west when they brought in sheep and they ate the grass to a nub.
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by GreenGoo »

Time for an ox named Blue, perhaps.
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by disarm »

I actually did quote a bit of research into this a few years ago and wound up with a Black & Decker 40V 13-inch Trimmer/Edger due it's almost universally positive reviews and fact that it's half the price of comparable competition. It's more than powerful enough for any job you'll do with just twine, in fact I typically use it at half speed for basic grass trimming and edging (which also extends the run time). I've been very happy with the purchase and would recommend it to anyone.

The only regret that I have a few years later is that all my other cordless power tools are DeWalt and the batteries aren't compatible despite them actually being the same company. My trimmer is awesome, but I wish it used the same battery as everything else. Oh well... first world problems...

It looks like Amazon also has a deal for a trimmer/blower combo right now for only $18 more...pretty good offer if you could also use a cordless leaf blower.
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by GreenGoo »

Thanks very much disarm!

Yes, everyone is locking people into their ecology with proprietary battery formats. I have a mikita drill with 2 batteries, but one has failed. I looked recently and the form factor is no longer being manufactured that I could see.

So right now I only have Ryobi and Mikita. I guess in the end it doesn't matter too much (as any new purchase will include the battery, as the two together are often heavily discounted as compared to the two separately), but it would be nice to be charging 1 battery while using another. The batteries cost more than the tools though, so it's not like you want to spend a fortune just to have some spares. Maybe if you spent your weekends working all the time. I...do not.

I am curious if I need 40V or not. I thought I could get away with 18V. I know there are blade attachments that can replace the line for harder jobs, on some trimmers. Haven't looked too closely at that.

I will definitely have a look disarm, thanks again!
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by disarm »

The B&D 40V claim is more marketing than anything. I don't think it really has that much more power, and it doesn't accept any other head/blade to do anything other than string trimming. What mattered to me is that it's powerful enough to do everything I need at much lower cost.

I just bought a DeWalt 20V edger (metal blade to deep cut the edges of my driveway), and I don't feel like there's any difference between the power of that and my B&D trimmer.
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by em2nought »

There are now a variety of battery adapters out there. I've never used any so can't comment on how well they work. My friend did buy many sets of good quality Ridgid tools over twenty years ago that it's impossible to find batteries for so I sort of lean toward buying cheap Ryobi tools compared to expensive tools. I have access to some really decent quality tools that have hardly been used, but I can't get batteries for them.

Enlarge Image

Ryobi batteries would be some of the hardest to adapt to other brand tools because of that central conical tower on top of the battery.
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by Scuzz »

I can't offer to many suggestions but one thing I would suggest. If you are going to use any soil amendments, especially with clay soils, use more than you think you need. I have had pretty good luck with most things, but our garden and lawn both have required a lot of work because our clay soil is so poor.

Also, remember than any bushes or trees you plant will almost always take up more room than you think they will.
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by GreenGoo »

Thanks Scuzz.

So far we are just cleaning up. We've pushed back the wild a bit, and I've raked up a significant area of fallen pine cones and needles and other debris. At least it looks a bit tidier.

We've also dug up any (extremely) large weeds that were noteworthy, at least in the grass areas. We had what appeared to be rhubarb in 2 separate places, just taking up space in the middle of the yard. Ye gads I am not a good yard keeper.

Things are going slow, because we're not out there every day. Still, each time we do work we can see improvement, so that's helping with morale.

Next up, we are going to start turning our 15 foot barely flowering lilac back into an 8 foot flowery bush. I've done my homework and hope we have some luck. I realize it's a multi-year job.

No major changes yet, but small jobs are starting to add up.
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by Daehawk »

neat. Some of my really old well used Ryobi batteries wont stay charged long at all even without use. Need to buy replacements. They have moved on to their One+ stuff or Lithium and left my tools behind. Im not sure what to use now that will work with my older Ryobi tools.
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by em2nought »

Daehawk wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 4:06 pm Im not sure what to use now that will work with my older Ryobi tools.
Home Depot had a deal, at least they did a few days ago, where if you buy two Ryobi batteries & charger you could get a choice of one select new tool for free.
GreenGoo wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 1:13 pm No major changes yet, but small jobs are starting to add up.
A small pond for wildlife would be a fun addition, but they require a bit of upkeep.
Here's a nice one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LvaX748pVI
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by Smoove_B »

I have a 55 gallon pond I inherited when we moved and it's been a non-stop mess with respect to algae. I've tried various things to manage it, but nothing so far has worked. I'm down to three final options - (1) powerful algaecide (2) fish that eat algae or (3) UV filter. Right now it's just running an oxygen pump 24/7 and I would agree it's an enjoyable feature to have - particularly all the wildlife that seems to end up hanging out near it (frogs mostly). As long as you keep that water circulating, it's not a potential mosquito warehouse. :)
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by Scuzz »

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 5:53 pm I have a 55 gallon pond I inherited when we moved and it's been a non-stop mess with respect to algae. I've tried various things to manage it, but nothing so far has worked. I'm down to three final options - (1) powerful algaecide (2) fish that eat algae or (3) UV filter. Right now it's just running an oxygen pump 24/7 and I would agree it's an enjoyable feature to have - particularly all the wildlife that seems to end up hanging out near it (frogs mostly). As long as you keep that water circulating, it's not a potential mosquito warehouse. :)
I have a turtle in a pond about that size and it is a constant maintenance hassle. She is almost 20 years old now and has lived probably 12 years in the pond. It does attract birds and neighborhood cats.
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by Kraken »

I wouldn't build a scum pond unless I had land that was prone to flooding anyway.
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by GreenGoo »

I am ashamed to say that I haven't been out in the yard in over a week. I am not good at this, mostly because I don't want to do this and do other things instead.

I had ordered a weed whacker but after weeks of waiting, it's still not in stock and has no signs of being in stock. Why I ordered an out of stock product I have no idea. I've cancelled the order. I am now looking for an in stock product and will order something shortly.
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by GreenGoo »

disarm wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 3:26 pm I actually did quote a bit of research into this a few years ago and wound up with a Black & Decker 40V 13-inch Trimmer/Edger
Purchased this from Amazon.ca. Should be here on Thursday. Yay.

BLACK+DECKER 40V MAX String Trimmer and Edger Kit, Cordless, 13 inch, 2-in-1, Battery and Charger Included
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by disarm »

Hopefully I didn't steer you in a bad direction, but I really doubt you'll be disappointed. Have fun whacking weeds!
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Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by GreenGoo »

disarm wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 1:37 pm Hopefully I didn't steer you in a bad direction, but I really doubt you'll be disappointed. Have fun whacking weeds!
Oh, don't worry about that. You'll get all the credit if it turns out awesome, and I'll just blame dewalt if it sucks. No problem. :D

Looking forward to having a halfway powerful whacker of weeds.
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GreenGoo
Posts: 42239
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by GreenGoo »

Whacker of weeds has arrived and is charging. I'll see how long the battery lasts tomorrow, as I'm quite sure I have more weeds than that battery could possibly whack in 1 sitting.
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em2nought
Posts: 5307
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:48 am

Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by em2nought »

Hopefully a Black & Decker works out ok for you. I wouldn't recommend their drills though, at least based on the recent models I've experienced. The cheap quick chucks just don't grip a drill bit tight enough.
Technically, he shouldn't be here.
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GreenGoo
Posts: 42239
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: Garden/Landscape/Wild Field Reclamation

Post by GreenGoo »

Put the whacker through its paces today. Full charge to zero. While it had charge it was a beast. But my yard is a beast too. I used it pretty much non-stop for an hour, hour and a half, and it was chewing up pretty much everything. Woody plants being the exception of course. It's still just nylon line.

We'll see how it holds its charge over a few charge cycles, but my initial impression is a thumbs up. Definitely more powerful than your average residential whacker, but below commercial.

Yeah, very happy with the job it did today.
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