Religion Randomness

For discussion of religion and politics

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YellowKing
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by YellowKing »

Freyland wrote:Feels like a wee bit of dementia showing its face (loss of inhibitions)
This terrifies me. We had to deal with it with my father-in-law when his dementia started getting more severe. Increasingly inappropriate comments to caregivers. One case of indecent exposure. It's a horrible thing to witness in someone who you would have never dreamed in a million years capable of such a thing.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Blackhawk »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 4:16 pm Crucified (literally) man protests high oil prices.
In a news conference shortly after his crucifixion, Enaje said he prayed for the eradication of the COVID-19 virus and the end of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, which has contributed to gas and food prices soaring worldwide.

“It’s just these two countries involved in that war, Russia and Ukraine, but all of us are being affected by the higher oil prices even if we’re not involved in that war,” said Enaje.
https://apnews.com/article/philippines- ... 7135c90f68
Village actors dressed as Roman centurions later hammered 4-inch (10-centimeter) stainless steel nails through his palms and feet, then set him aloft on a cross under the sun for about 10 minutes.
Um... alrighty.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Smoove_B »

This is such a weird story, but it's been making local news:
A controversial cross-shaped pier on the Jersey Shore will open to the public ahead of schedule, the local religious organization behind its reconstruction announced.

...

Some residents objected to the shape of the pier when its cross-shaped design was unveiled in July 2022 at a groundbreaking in the Monmouth County resort town. Critics, including the nonpartisan advocacy group Neptune United, raised concerns about putting a religious symbol in a public space on the beach.
At first I was like, it's pier - it has a functional shape. Then I read:
Officials with the Ocean Grove Camp Meeting Association — which helps governs the Ocean Grove section of Neptune under a unique charter — previously said they make “no apologies” for the symbolism of the new structure.

“We don’t mean to hurt anyone and we don’t mean to offend anyone,” Michael Badger, the meeting association’s president, said last year.

“We are Christians and we are going to continue to be Christians in the public square, on our private lands,” he added.

...

“Despite not obtaining the required permits, violating multiple DEP conditions, and having had exactly zero oversight by Neptune Township, the OGCMA is somehow allowed to have a ‘ribbon cutting and opening’ for a pier that will be walked on by tens of thousands of residents and visitors alike,” Neptune United said in a statement Tuesday.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Isgrimnur »

Ocean Grove, referred to as God’s Square Mile by some of its residents, is a seaside community of roughly 3,000 residents located just south of Asbury Park. It’s not its own municipality — Ocean Grove is a small section of Neptune Township set aside with a unique charter.

It was founded more than 150 years ago as a summertime, tent-revival religious retreat for Methodists. It was governed by the Ocean Grove Camp Meeting Association as a religious enclave for 100 years until the New Jersey Supreme Court declared its original charter unconstitutional after a series of lawsuits.
...
The Ocean Grove Meeting Association was sued in 2007 when it barred same-sex couples from using its boardwalk pavilion for civil union ceremonies, which a judge later said violated the state’s anti-discrimination law.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Defiant »

A historian studying a text in the Vatican has discovered a hidden fragment of the Gospel of Matthew, written in Old Syriac, that differs from what is seen today in the Bible.

The alternate version of the gospel was revealed using ultraviolet (UV) photography. As parchment was scarce in the Middle Ages, scribes often reused parchments, writing over older texts, researchers said in a statement(opens in new tab).
https://www.livescience.com/archaeology ... -parchment
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Isgrimnur »

Arizona Supreme Court Protects Secret of Confession in a LDS Case
Although a man had boasted of his sexual abuse of his daughter on social media, what he told to his Mormon church leaders in a confessional context remains protected.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
Freyland
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Freyland »

Isgrimnur wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 11:36 pm Arizona Supreme Court Protects Secret of Confession in a LDS Case
Although a man had boasted of his sexual abuse of his daughter on social media, what he told to his Mormon church leaders in a confessional context remains protected.
Of course. Wouldn't want to leave loose ends.
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LordMortis
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by LordMortis »

This song gives me a glimpse in to what some religious people must experience from being religious. It must be nice to have that state to go to when you need it. I guess other people get drugs. Those aren't my friend either.

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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Daehawk »

Looks like religions are finally trying to separate themselves from guns. Which in turn means the religious right will start to pull apart from the GOP Republicans. Hopefully.

Chattanooga religious leaders share strong message about gun reform
Today, religious leaders rallied to demand action from lawmakers for laws that protect citizens, not guns."Could we give up the right to an assault weapon? Could we agree to have a universal background check," said Rabbi Craig. "Could we agree to greater accountability for those who sell or provide guns to those who should not have them?"
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Unagi
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Unagi »

Daehawk wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:12 pm Looks like religions are finally trying to separate themselves from guns. Which in turn means the religious right will start to pull apart from the GOP Republicans. Hopefully.

Chattanooga religious leaders share strong message about gun reform
Today, religious leaders rallied to demand action from lawmakers for laws that protect citizens, not guns."Could we give up the right to an assault weapon? Could we agree to have a universal background check," said Rabbi Craig. "Could we agree to greater accountability for those who sell or provide guns to those who should not have them?"
Slow down there. I think you’re getting -way- ahead of yourself here.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Smoove_B »

Seems like a good time to test things:
A state school board in Oklahoma voted Monday to approve what would be the first publicly funded religious school in the nation, despite a warning from the state’s attorney general that the decision was unconstitutional.

The Statewide Virtual Charter School Board voted 3-2 to approve the application by the Catholic Archdiocese of Oklahoma to establish the St. Isidore of Seville Virtual Charter School. The online public charter school would be open to students across the state in kindergarten through grade 12.

Oklahoma Attorney General Gentner Drummond had warned the board that such a decision clearly violated the Oklahoma Constitution.

...

Oklahoma’s Republican Gov. Kevin Stitt, who earlier this year signed a bill that would give parents in the state a tax incentive to send their children to private schools, including religious schools, praised the board’s vote.

“This is a win for religious liberty and education freedom in our great state, and I am encouraged by these efforts to give parents more options when it comes to their child’s education,” Stitt said in a statement.

Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Unagi
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Unagi »

I leave this country the second it starts paying for religious education with my tax dollars.


"with my tax dollars" - - literally something I never have once thought of saying with this conviction.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Daehawk wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:12 pm Looks like religions are finally trying to separate themselves from guns. Which in turn means the religious right will start to pull apart from the GOP Republicans. Hopefully.

Chattanooga religious leaders share strong message about gun reform
Today, religious leaders rallied to demand action from lawmakers for laws that protect citizens, not guns."Could we give up the right to an assault weapon? Could we agree to have a universal background check," said Rabbi Craig. "Could we agree to greater accountability for those who sell or provide guns to those who should not have them?"
Rabbi Craig
I'm sure the good Rabbi is a big player on the religious right of the GOP.


Or perhaps the openly gay Bishop?
"Cause I need not wake up like you one more day and hear the children have been shot and killed, that adults have been shot and killed, that people of all races in genders and sexualities have been killed," said Bishop Kevin Strickland.
I mean I hate to squash hope but this isn't any kind of GOP breakaway. "God and Guns" is still the right's rallying cry.
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Max Peck
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Max Peck »

Unagi wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:19 pm I leave this country the second it starts paying for religious education with my tax dollars.
Isn't that already happening with school vouchers, at least in states that have voucher systems? I have a friend in Indiana who relies on vouchers in order to be able to afford to send their kids to Catholic schools.
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Unagi
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Unagi »

Max Peck wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 12:18 am
Unagi wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:19 pm I leave this country the second it starts paying for religious education with my tax dollars.
Isn't that already happening with school vouchers, at least in states that have voucher systems? I have a friend in Indiana who relies on vouchers in order to be able to afford to send their kids to Catholic schools.
SHHUSHHHH! :grund:
yes, there is some truth in that. but not where I live. I don't think.

But there is still some distinction for a child's tuition being paid by the state, versus the school being entirely funded by the state.
I think.
Probably not.
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LordMortis
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by LordMortis »

Unagi wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 12:45 am
Max Peck wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 12:18 am
Unagi wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:19 pm I leave this country the second it starts paying for religious education with my tax dollars.
Isn't that already happening with school vouchers, at least in states that have voucher systems? I have a friend in Indiana who relies on vouchers in order to be able to afford to send their kids to Catholic schools.
SHHUSHHHH! :grund:
yes, there is some truth in that. but not where I live. I don't think.

But there is still some distinction for a child's tuition being paid by the state, versus the school being entirely funded by the state.
I think.
Probably not.

It's been that way here since we started "school of choice" in the late 90s (sometime?). There are good parts of "school of choice", which allowed parents to get their kids of out horrible schooling situations but its done damage to public schools in favor of religious private schooling avoiding for profit and even not for profit status.
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Max Peck
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Max Peck »

In some provinces here in Canada the Catholic school system gets a share of public education funding.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by GreenGoo »

Max Peck wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:52 am In some provinces here in Canada the Catholic school system gets a share of public education funding.
100%.

And by that Max means they are fully publicly funded along with public school boards. Obviously there are strings attached to that money and the Catholic school board in Ottawa is essentially a second public school board, but yes, Catholicism is part of the curriculum.

For the record 2 of my kids attended the public school system while 1 of my kids is close to graduating from the Catholic school system. We were convinced early on that the Catholic school had more support for my autistic son. I still believe that and my experiences have been mostly positive in this regard.

Doesn't change the fact that tax dollars are paying for Catholic schools.

The end of year project for my son in religion class was a presentation on Islam. I also specifically remember work on Hinduism.

I'm not defending public money being used, but I am saying that it hasn't been the indoctrination factory that comes to mind when imagining a school system based on a single religion.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by stessier »

GreenGoo wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:47 am I'm not defending public money being used, but I am saying that it hasn't been the indoctrination factory that comes to mind when imagining a school system based on a single religion.
I wonder if there are requirements built into your system that ours doesn't have. I went to Catholic school growing up and my kids went for much of elementary school. Weekly Mass and preparation for a number of Sacraments are built into the curriculum.
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Pyperkub
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Pyperkub »

Smoove_B wrote:Seems like a good time to test things:
A state school board in Oklahoma voted Monday to approve what would be the first publicly funded religious school in the nation, despite a warning from the state’s attorney general that the decision was unconstitutional.

The Statewide Virtual Charter School Board voted 3-2 to approve the application by the Catholic Archdiocese of Oklahoma to establish the St. Isidore of Seville Virtual Charter School. The online public charter school would be open to students across the state in kindergarten through grade 12.

Oklahoma Attorney General Gentner Drummond had warned the board that such a decision clearly violated the Oklahoma Constitution.

...

Oklahoma’s Republican Gov. Kevin Stitt, who earlier this year signed a bill that would give parents in the state a tax incentive to send their children to private schools, including religious schools, praised the board’s vote.

“This is a win for religious liberty and education freedom in our great state, and I am encouraged by these efforts to give parents more options when it comes to their child’s education,” Stitt said in a statement.

Also, for a party so 'concerned' about 'groomers', it's a bit, oh, hypocritical for then to volunteer tax dollars for a school run by an organization which has been proven to *actually* have a massive problem with this and covering it up...



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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by disarm »


Max Peck wrote:
Unagi wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:19 pm I leave this country the second it starts paying for religious education with my tax dollars.
Isn't that already happening with school vouchers, at least in states that have voucher systems? I have a friend in Indiana who relies on vouchers in order to be able to afford to send their kids to Catholic schools.
I was thinking exactly this same thing. Some states have already implemented voucher programs that steer taxpayer education funding to private schools, many of which have religious affiliations.

I have two family members who are teachers in Indiana public schools that are experiencing the negative effects of voucher programs first hand. Their school systems are losing millions of dollars that should be going to their students but are instead given to families as vouchers to support private education...in a state where 97% of private schools are religiously-affiliated To make matters worse, money goes to these private schools through the voucher program, but they are not audited in how the funds are utilized or held to any of the same standards as public schools to prove they are providing a quality education.

One of them posted this link to a Google Maps layer showing the money lost to Indiana public schools due to the voucher program over the last five years, broken down by township (local school system). It's pretty disappointing to see the amount state taxpayer dollars feeding private schools that are almost exclusively religious education.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by GreenGoo »

stessier wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:24 am I wonder if there are requirements built into your system that ours doesn't have.
In short, yes.
GreenGoo wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:47 am
Obviously there are strings attached to that money and the Catholic school board in Ottawa is essentially a second public school board, but yes, Catholicism is part of the curriculum.
I realize now that it is not obvious, but there are criteria that need to be met. What exactly those criteria are, I don't know off the top of my head. They can't exclude children of other religions (or none) is, in all likelihood, one of them.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Max Peck »

My sister sent her kids to a Catholic school in Regina SK because she felt it was a better school, academically, than the public school there. I don't know how much, if any, religious indoctrination they were exposed to while there, but I do know that if there was any, it didn't take. :lol:
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by The Meal »

Only 1st through 5th grades in Catholic school (which was four years for me). Religion classes in each of 3rd, 4th, and 5th grades. Weekly mass on Fridays. All the boys were altar boys for weekend services. (Heck, my mother taught CCD courses for the heathens who went to public school, in addition to being the on-site librarian.)

I did First Communion in second grade, but bailed on it all when Confirmation came about in sixth grade. Mom probably should've hidden the science fiction books in that library, as they opened my mind to much bigger things.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by GreenGoo »

Max Peck wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 2:45 pm My sister sent her kids to a Catholic school in Regina SK because she felt it was a better school, academically, than the public school there. I don't know how much, if any, religious indoctrination they were exposed to while there, but I do know that if there was any, it didn't take. :lol:
My son isn't even baptized.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Smoove_B »

I'm putting this here because he was a PoS and I didn't want to tempt fate on the other side of the fence:
The Rev. Pat Robertson, an influential and often inflammatory voice of conservative Christianity who ran for president in 1988 and helped organize the political strength of evangelicals, has died. He was 93.

His death was announced Thursday by the Christian Broadcasting Network, but no cause was given.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Isgrimnur »

Gordon Robertson has been in the wings behind him for a while
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Re: Religion Randomness

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Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Unagi
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Unagi »

Well, thank god that's over with.

Complete piece of trash.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Unagi »

unrelated...

loved this yearbook quote:

"I first asked God for a bike, but I was told he didn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Daehawk »

Satan is having roast Robertson tonight. Keeping a seat warm for Trump no doubt.
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Re: Religion Randomness

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Supreme Court backs Christian postal worker who wanted Sundays off in ruling that may affect employer
The Supreme Court on Thursday sided with an evangelical Christian worker who was denied requests to take Sundays off from his post office job to observe his Sabbath in a narrower ruling than some religious freedom advocates sought.

While the court did not overrule a precedent that set when employers must make accommodations for religious employees, it did "explain the contours" of that decision in way that may be more beneficial to employees.
...
Justice Samuel Alito wrote the opinion for a unanimous court. The decision sends the case back to lower courts.

At the center of the case is Gerald Groff, a former U.S. Postal Service employee who wanted to take Sundays off for church and rest. That presented a scheduling conflict – and a burden on his colleagues, the government argued – after the Postal Service started delivering Amazon packages on Sundays.

Groff’s attorneys had asked the Supreme Court to toss out a 1977 precedent that made it easier for some companies to deny such requests. The earlier case said that businesses could avoid meeting religious requests if the cost of doing so would be more than a "de minimis," or trivial, amount.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Pyperkub »

Isgrimnur wrote:Supreme Court backs Christian postal worker who wanted Sundays off in ruling that may affect employer
The Supreme Court on Thursday sided with an evangelical Christian worker who was denied requests to take Sundays off from his post office job to observe his Sabbath in a narrower ruling than some religious freedom advocates sought.

While the court did not overrule a precedent that set when employers must make accommodations for religious employees, it did "explain the contours" of that decision in way that may be more beneficial to employees.
...
Justice Samuel Alito wrote the opinion for a unanimous court. The decision sends the case back to lower courts.

At the center of the case is Gerald Groff, a former U.S. Postal Service employee who wanted to take Sundays off for church and rest. That presented a scheduling conflict – and a burden on his colleagues, the government argued – after the Postal Service started delivering Amazon packages on Sundays.

Groff’s attorneys had asked the Supreme Court to toss out a 1977 precedent that made it easier for some companies to deny such requests. The earlier case said that businesses could avoid meeting religious requests if the cost of doing so would be more than a "de minimis," or trivial, amount.
This was a case rightly decided for once.

The postal worker took the job before they started doing Sunday deliveries explicitly so he had Sundays free for worship.

Then he transferred away from one office to avoid working on Sundays, but the new office also eventually started the Sunday schedule.

The USPS should have grandfathered him and all employees hired before the Sunday schedule and made accommodations.

Most religious freedom lawsuits now are of the "My religion demands that I illegally discriminate against minorities or cause harm to others and i should be allowed to do it.", this one isn't.

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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Grifman »

Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Pyperkub »

A thought I had -

I wonder if the one god religions have also been a factor in human culture seeing unitary authority as the best solution, when in many cases it isn't for the greater good. Would a pantheon without a most/all powerful patriarch change the way humanity saw efficient government? We did have emperor's/kings in pantheons tho.

I was also ruminating upon humanity if the following were true:
1) Sex Always resulted in a Baby
2) Either person could be the one who ended up pregnant.

And what would our religions/mythology look like then? Would Zeus have been a man if he could have gotten pregnant with any of his dalliances? Would Thunder gods all be men?

food for thought...
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!

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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Holman »

Pyperkub wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 8:05 pm A thought I had -

I wonder if the one god religions have also been a factor in human culture seeing unitary authority as the best solution, when in many cases it isn't for the greater good. Would a pantheon without a most/all powerful patriarch change the way humanity saw efficient government? We did have emperor's/kings in pantheons tho.
Different religions have always done different sorts of cultural work.

Modern young people are often surprised to learn that (e.g.) the Greeks didn't see Zeus at all the way Christians see their God. The Greek gods were examples of the whole range of morality, and they served to represent and explore different aspects of human behavior, even the bad ones. (No one celebrated Zeus for being so extraordinarily good at cheating on his wife and raping princesses, for example, even if these were some of his favorite hobbies.)

Likewise, many more animistic religions imagine the divine in terms of natural processes from which humans benefit but which also must be endured, survived, and sometimes resisted. The god of the flood doesn't come because the tribe has been bad, but because floods come sometimes.

Monotheistic religions definitely took a step in a particular direction by imagining the Divine as an omnipotent judge and just ruler, that's for sure.
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Pyperkub »

Holman wrote: Fri Jul 14, 2023 3:59 pm
Monotheistic religions definitely took a step in a particular direction by imagining the Divine as an omnipotent judge and just ruler, that's for sure.
Descartes built his whole philosophy on it!
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Re: Religion Randomness

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Judge: West Virginia can’t require incarcerated atheist to participate in religious programming
A federal judge in West Virginia has ruled that the state corrections agency can’t force an incarcerated atheist and secular humanist to participate in religiously-affiliated programming to be eligible for parole.

In a sweeping 60-page decision issued Tuesday, Charleston-based U.S. District Court Judge Joseph Goodwin said Saint Marys Correctional Center inmate Andrew Miller “easily meets his threshold burden of showing an impingement on his rights.”

The state’s “unmitigated actions force Mr. Miller to choose between two distinct but equally irreparable injuries,” the judge wrote. He can either “submit to government coercion and engage in religious exercise at odds with his own beliefs,” or “remain incarcerated until at least April 2025.”

Goodwin issued a preliminary injunction requiring West Virginia Division of Corrections and Rehabilitation officials to remove completion of a state-run and federally-funded residential substance abuse program from Miller’s parole eligibility requirements.
...
He alleged the federally-funded substance abuse treatment program — which is a requirement for his parole consideration — is “infused with Christian practices,” including Christian reading materials and mandated Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous meetings, where the Serenity and Lord’s Prayer are recited.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Jaymann
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Jaymann »

...try playin' it safer,
Drink the wine and chew the wafer...
Jaymann
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Isgrimnur
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Re: Religion Randomness

Post by Isgrimnur »

It's almost as if people are the problem.
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