Civilization 6

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Anonymous Bosch
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Re: Civilization 6

Post by Anonymous Bosch »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 12:09 am
Dramatist wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 12:27 am I’m not sure why it’s grabbed me so much because 5 never really clicked for me.
That tracks. I absolutely worship V, but VI never clicked for me.

I’ve seen many people say they love one, but not the other, but I still don’t understand why (including myself…can’t pinpoint why I love V and not VI)
For me, I've never gotten past the overall aesthetics of Civ 6. To my eyes, Civ 6's overly-saturated graphics seem more akin to a Saturday morning cartoon from the sixties:

Image

I'm sure the graphics grow on you after while for some. But for me, Sid Meier's series of Civ games has always been focused first and foremost around history. So when I play games like these, I'm just not looking for cartoonish animations of giant builders who leap 30ft into the sky, hammer-slamming like Thor cosplayers:

Image

These kind of visuals break the sense of immersion and historical atmosphere for me, and makes the game less enjoyable as a result. So I still prefer the more neutral colour palette and simple, timeless, realistic graphics of Civ 5. I also find the Complete Edition of Civ 5 with the much-improved AI of the Vox Populi mod provides for a deeper, more satisfying overall experience. Playing Vox Populi feels more akin to moving through history, while Civ 6 feels more gamelike to me in comparison. But, of course, YMMV.
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Carpet_pissr
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Re: Civilization 6

Post by Carpet_pissr »

When is the last time you tried the VP mod? At least as of several months ago when I was last playing, it was a complete mess. Not sure what happened but it seems they either let multiple people work on it, or they let people on the forums vote, and as a result of that voting, it really seems to have changed it completely from what it started as (and not in a good way).
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Anonymous Bosch
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Re: Civilization 6

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Carpet_pissr wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:11 am When is the last time you tried the VP mod? At least as of several months ago when I was last playing, it was a complete mess. Not sure what happened but it seems they either let multiple people work on it, or they let people on the forums vote, and as a result of that voting, it really seems to have changed it completely from what it started as (and not in a good way).
Alas, it's probably been at least 18 months since I last played, so it saddens me to learn that the VP mod has seemingly taken such a turn for the worst. Any alternative(s) you would now recommend instead?
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." — P. J. O'Rourke
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Carpet_pissr
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Re: Civilization 6

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Anonymous Bosch wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 2:14 am
Carpet_pissr wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:11 am When is the last time you tried the VP mod? At least as of several months ago when I was last playing, it was a complete mess. Not sure what happened but it seems they either let multiple people work on it, or they let people on the forums vote, and as a result of that voting, it really seems to have changed it completely from what it started as (and not in a good way).
Alas, it's probably been at least 18 months since I last played, so it saddens me to learn that the VP mod has seemingly taken such a turn for the worst. Any alternative(s) you would now recommend instead?
I wanted to use VP primarily for the improved AI, so I settled for an older mod I found on Steam workshop (maybe even called ‘improved ai’?) Hard to tell if it was noticeably better than vanilla, bc it was shortly after that that I stopped playing since I was finally winning on Deity consistently.

Note that I did try playing with VP, and many different iterations, but it REALLY seemed like the whole project just collapsed under the weight of too many different ‘wants’ from the community.

IIRC it felt like the forum got tired of primarily making it be a better AI, to so many other new things and tweaks and ‘improvements’ (several of which I thought were downgrades, frankly) that it ended up a jumbled mess imo.

Anyway, I do look forward to Civ VII and also hope they move away from the cartoon aesthetic.
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Blackhawk
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Re: Civilization 6

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I like and have played most of the Civs, but I'm not a Civ nut (and never really try for the higher difficulties.) So this question is mainly out of curiosity: What's the idea behind an improved AI?

By that I mean, is it to make the game tougher by getting the AI to be less predictable and able to be manipulated? To stop the AI from making mistakes (not upgrading units, sending archers after tanks, etc?) I've never really felt the need, since most of the times I've looked at AI mods, their descriptions make them seem like they're all about trying to make the game harder - which I don't really find all that desirable.
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Anonymous Bosch
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Re: Civilization 6

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Blackhawk wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 2:39 pm I like and have played most of the Civs, but I'm not a Civ nut (and never really try for the higher difficulties.) So this question is mainly out of curiosity: What's the idea behind an improved AI?

By that I mean, is it to make the game tougher by getting the AI to be less predictable and able to be manipulated? To stop the AI from making mistakes (not upgrading units, sending archers after tanks, etc?) I've never really felt the need, since most of the times I've looked at AI mods, their descriptions make them seem like they're all about trying to make the game harder - which I don't really find all that desirable.
Making the AI less predictable is part of it. Generally speaking, after spending sufficient time playing a 4X like Civ 5, any competent human gamer will almost inevitably learn the inherent flaws and weaknesses of the default AI. Once that happens, you're almost always able to beat up on the default AI even on harder difficulties (since they rarely improve how effectively the AI plays the game), and gameplay becomes boring or repetitive as a result. So, enhancing the AI with new tactics and improvements to the diplomatic system helps breathe new life into the experience. For example, I distinctly recall being impressed by how the AI improvements from the Vox Populi mod meant that the AI would actually take advantage of terrain positioning, retreat units that were about to die, and utilize ranged units first to wear down an opponent before engaging with melee units. AI diplomacy no longer seemed random. There was rhyme and reason behind the diplomatic decisions it made. Wars weren't needlessly started and stopped. If a war was declared, the AI would fight harshly and with a specific goal in mind, and not necessarily just for domination. So, the improvements at least seemed to make AI opponents play more like a human.
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Re: Civilization 6

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Gotcha. Personally, I rarely play more than three or four games of a 4X game before I get burned out and move on to something else (after all, a single game can take days or weeks), so I don't really get to that point.
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Re: Civilization 6

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Blackhawk wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 3:56 pm Gotcha. Personally, I rarely play more than three or four games of a 4X game before I get burned out and move on to something else (after all, a single game can take days or weeks), so I don't really get to that point.
FWIW, considering your gaming proclivities, I suspect you'd likely get a whole lot more out of playing a 4X like Stellaris. Because in my experience, Stellaris plays much more like a superb role-playing and emergent storytelling sandbox.
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Blackhawk
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Re: Civilization 6

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I haven't tried it. My most recent 4X was a run with Endless Legend a couple of months ago. I am actually considering going back and doing another run - but I'm in an indecisiveness loop between that and Warhammer 3: TW.
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Re: Civilization 6

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Blackhawk wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 4:39 pm I haven't tried it. My most recent 4X was a run with Endless Legend a couple of months ago. I am actually considering going back and doing another run - but I'm in an indecisiveness loop between that and Warhammer 3: TW.
Well with Stellaris, I find that it excels at allowing you to create your empire, think about its backstory, and how and why the people within it think and act. How would they approach diplomacy or war? Do they have a certain goal that has to be finished at any cost? What about other xenos, do they love them or eat them? Or perhaps they're epicureans, so loving xenos and eating them isn't necessarily even mutually exclusive. A lot of the story then unfolds in your head, with the in-game events as a scaffold.

Here's an engaging write-up that illustrates how the emergent storytelling Stellaris provides can then unfold.
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Re: Civilization 6

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I've played just enough Stellaris to know that I'm going to be playing it for a long time. I abandoned my first game just as it was entering the mid-game because I got too sick to play for a few days and lost the thread, and because I'd made some rookie mistakes anyway. Because I'm still learning, I play very slowly. This game promises to suck down as many hours as Civ used to.
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Re: Civilization 6

Post by LordMortis »

I last played Stellaris, I think when Federations was released (it may be a wholly different game now). At the time, it had a fairly established tradition in civilization creating method, wherein you began your "role playing" method right out of the gate. Your core race/civilization was going to have a unique playing style that you either played into or fought against and there were many many styles of play to learn. Diplomatic vs war vs expansionist vs isolationist. integrate vs exterminate. slow pop vs fast pop growth. Climate preferences vs extrenophiles. Tech lovers. Etc... All the things you see in 4x Civ building, only they are crazy meaningful in Stellaris. The points you put in your start for ads and disads inform your playing style for the whole game and make you think in terms of the survival of your civilization. Federations, I think, was the first revision to really break the idea of Min/Maxing for MotS space 4x game tradition. 4xing was not your only means to success and how/if to go it alone became even much more of a conscious decision. I don't think it is truly the role playing of a generational space opera, as the game was originally sold but it really advanced the game so it is a grand strategy game in its own class.
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Re: Civilization 6

Post by A nonny mouse »

O.K. Having not played any Civilization game since Civilization 2 in like 1998, Civilization 6 is on sale on steam for $5.99. (blockers at work prevent me from getting the link). I think I liked it, but I just scratched the surface at the time. I was in grad school and did not have tons of time.

I'm thinking of getting it (have to make sure my laptop will run it), but not sure if I will like it.

I have not been a big gamer for a while - Diablo 3 (switch), Breath of the wild (switch), and Fallouts (PC). are the extent of it. I have not enough time with other projects and the family.

I am extremely frugal, but $5.99 does not seem bad. Is it worth it without all the expansions? Anthology bundle for $29.62 (19 items); Platinum for $15 (9 items).

someone push me off the ledge or pull me back. Arrrgh!. I can't decide.

Thanks.
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Re: Civilization 6

Post by LordMortis »

I enjoyed it when it was new and shiny at $60 but not $60 enjoyed and not enough to pick up any of the DLC at the prices being offered. If I can get the complete version to replace my $60 basic version all these years later for $20, I'd jump at it.

If you think you would be satisfied with the basic game, the $6 is well worth it. If you want to dip your toe in to see if you want the DLC then I'd wait until a complete version is on the super cheap (ie $20 like I am)

There's a lot game in the basic game and its vastly different than Civ IV and everything earlier. I think it's an advancement on Civ V but Civ V and Civ VI are very similar in gameplay, so a super super super cheap Civ V Complete might better scratch the itch than Civ VI vanilla.

You don't have to be impatient. Sales happen a lot, as this game is pretty much at the end of its product cycle. Fanatical and GMG put it on sale a lot and then there's always Epic. Both Steam and Epic have given the game way for free in the past.

https://isthereanydeal.com/game/sidmeie ... onvi/info/
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Re: Civilization 6

Post by Carpet_pissr »

I think the pattern has consistently been Civ version X + all its expansions is better than Civ version Y vanilla, where Y is the newer version.

At least since Civ IV, and maybe even Civ III.
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Re: Civilization 6

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The last leader pack dropped a few days ago and it came with a small patch. Might be the last patch ever. Making it the final complete set.

I decided to play again after a year off and try out the new leaders. If you like the undead mode, they seem to really up the spawn rate. Makes for a different experience with forcing you to defend quickly and survive. But maybe it's always been that way, I don't remember. It's the only mode I consider turning on, since the devs said the game is balanced around the default game only.

Feels good to come back to it.
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Re: Civilization 6

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I recently finished a game of Civ6 after having not played since the last wave of updates and add-ons. I mostly wanted to check out the new features so I enabled all of them except zombies, because zombies are just dumb. Played as Trajan on a Huge map, Marathon speed, Emperor difficulty.

I like heroes, although they never made a difference in my game. Corporations are just eh, whatever. Secret societies added a little variety, but not much; I was never able to appoint the last governor for mine, which I'm pretty sure is a bug. I was surprised to encounter vampires, because I thought those would go with zombies, but they're one of the societies that I didn't take. They weren't much of a speed bump.

I realized pretty quickly that the AI doesn't know how to use any of the new stuff. It was never very good at this game and now it's even worse. I won a domination victory on turn 640/1500 and could have done it earlier if I'd focused more. I led by such a huge amount in every metric that romping across the map got kind of boring. If/when I play again, I need to bump the difficulty up a level. Maybe go straight for Deity. Or maybe I'll turn on zombies. :)
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Re: Civilization 6

Post by dbt1949 »

On the right maps zombies can be overwhelming. Especially if given free reign on a near empty continent. So many already spawned and when you land and kill off 10 or twenty they spawn even faster. Good news is they only go after the military and leave your workers alone.
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Re: Civilization 6

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Well unless you can farm them for experience, that's an aggravation I don't want.
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Re: Civilization 6

Post by Torfish »

Whenever I come back for a game I only turn on barbarian clans as a must have. Sometimes zombie and the apocalypse modes. Emperor difficulty is my sweet spot for a competitive AI game.

I still enjoy the game, but yeah the AI doesn't know how to use the optional game modes.
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