Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by stessier »

Zaxxon wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:26 am
stessier wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:20 am Plugshare let's people log their charges which I think is better than a checked/maintained log as it tells you if it was working for an actual use case.
Yeah, although they've come under fire lately for their logging method being outdated. For example, if you roll into a 4-stall location and 3 are down while the 4th is degraded, that's a positive check-in because you successfully charged.

Seems they're still living in the age where 95% of charging was L2 and if you saw another EV it was a big deal.
Well, it's up to the person checking in to give it a + or -, but yes, there is likely a better way. Whenever I checkin, I rate my charger and then use the text to comment on the state of every other charger.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by Zaxxon »

stessier wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:33 am
Zaxxon wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:26 am
stessier wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:20 am Plugshare let's people log their charges which I think is better than a checked/maintained log as it tells you if it was working for an actual use case.
Yeah, although they've come under fire lately for their logging method being outdated. For example, if you roll into a 4-stall location and 3 are down while the 4th is degraded, that's a positive check-in because you successfully charged.

Seems they're still living in the age where 95% of charging was L2 and if you saw another EV it was a big deal.
Well, it's up to the person checking in to give it a + or -, but yes, there is likely a better way. Whenever I checkin, I rate my charger and then use the text to comment on the state of every other charger.
Plugshare is literally editing reviews to match the criteria I mentioned above.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by stessier »

Zaxxon wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:38 am
stessier wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:33 am
Zaxxon wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:26 am
stessier wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:20 am Plugshare let's people log their charges which I think is better than a checked/maintained log as it tells you if it was working for an actual use case.
Yeah, although they've come under fire lately for their logging method being outdated. For example, if you roll into a 4-stall location and 3 are down while the 4th is degraded, that's a positive check-in because you successfully charged.

Seems they're still living in the age where 95% of charging was L2 and if you saw another EV it was a big deal.
Well, it's up to the person checking in to give it a + or -, but yes, there is likely a better way. Whenever I checkin, I rate my charger and then use the text to comment on the state of every other charger.
Plugshare is literally editing reviews to match the criteria I mentioned above.
Ah, I was unaware. Thanks!
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by Zaxxon »

stessier wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:50 am
Zaxxon wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:38 am
stessier wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:33 am
Zaxxon wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:26 am
stessier wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:20 am Plugshare let's people log their charges which I think is better than a checked/maintained log as it tells you if it was working for an actual use case.
Yeah, although they've come under fire lately for their logging method being outdated. For example, if you roll into a 4-stall location and 3 are down while the 4th is degraded, that's a positive check-in because you successfully charged.

Seems they're still living in the age where 95% of charging was L2 and if you saw another EV it was a big deal.
Well, it's up to the person checking in to give it a + or -, but yes, there is likely a better way. Whenever I checkin, I rate my charger and then use the text to comment on the state of every other charger.
Plugshare is literally editing reviews to match the criteria I mentioned above.
Ah, I was unaware. Thanks!
I was surprised to see it, because I love the Plugshare app, mainly for L2 locations.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by malchior »

I like Plugshare and public review pressure might help. Still these networks don't seem to have enough commercial pressure (yet) to get past this hump. These chargers for payment purposes alone have to be network connected so there is little reason they can't detect when a charger isn't being used. Do we see payment authorizations from a machine and no charging activity repeatedly? Send out a technician. Does 1 out of 4 in a high traffic spot consistently not get used? Maybe the charger or the plug is obviously broken. Send out a technician. I don't know what the issue is but it'd sure be nice if someone who gives a shit stepped in and just got them to do the simple things to make it better and invest in an experience that is in their own best interest. :)
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

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malchior wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 10:46 am I like Plugshare and public review pressure might help. Still these networks don't seem to have enough commercial pressure (yet) to get past this hump. These chargers for payment purposes alone have to be network connected so there is little reason they can't detect when a charger isn't being used. Do we see payment authorizations from a machine and no charging activity repeatedly? Send out a technician. Does 1 out of 4 in a high traffic spot consistently not get used? Maybe the charger or the plug is obviously broken. Send out a technician. I don't know what the issue is but it'd sure be nice if someone who gives a shit stepped in and just got them to do the simple things to make it better and invest in an experience that is in their own best interest. :)
Conspiracy-but-not-really-conspiracy hat: "Did we receive the public subsidies to put public chargers into place? Yes. Are we required to meet uptime/usability guarantees to keep that money? No? #cavejohnsonwe'redonehere"
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by malchior »

Zaxxon wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 10:50 amConspiracy-but-not-really-conspiracy hat: "Did we receive the public subsidies to put public chargers into place? Yes. Are we required to meet uptime/usability guarantees to keep that money? No? #cavejohnsonwe'redonehere"
Hah. It's probably not too far from the truth. The incentives are all misaligned. In EA's case the government may potentially pour money into a company that doesn't care about making money and we'll see dismal results. And I say that having watched the EVgo saga very, very closely. The reliability monitoring I mention above is something along the lines of a recommendation I made to them about 8 years ago during a cyber risk assessment where I went way out of my lane and made business risk recommendations.

Without going way down the rabbit hole, EVgo was formed in a similar way to EA - a consent decree from a governmental agency. And EVgo for a long time built chargers that were never going to see revenue much less profit. There was no actual business case. California was trying to solve the charger chicken and egg problem in the clumsiest way possible at a time when the EV choice was mostly between the Leaf...and the Leaf.

What drove EVgo into a company that gave a shit was when it was bought by NRG. That is a long story but in the end they wanted EVgo as part of a vision that involved actually making money and they transformed from team compliance to team vision. When NRG spun them off it was a business that gave a shit. They've had their challenges since but EA is potentially on the same journey. They have a lot of financial resources and the government is willing to hand them an open checkbook. If someone gave a shit there is a ton of potential there. Hopefully the government realizes they need to align incentives before loosening the purse strings.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

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Let's not forget the sole reason EA exists, either...
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

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Redwood seems to be doing something right based on the amount of deals they've made lately...

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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

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A really important investment. We have a relatively limited supply of metals domestically so investing in someone like Redwood who specializes in electronics recycling -> anode/cathode is a smart play.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

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This guy has some interesting videos on the subject https://www.youtube.com/richrebuilds
Technically, he shouldn't be here.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

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Zaxxon wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:35 pm Redwood seems to be doing something right based on the amount of deals they've made lately...

Did I post the Drexel U article?
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

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Big White House announcement this am on future charging infrastructure--namely, what requirements will need to be met to get that sweet, sweet federal funding. Some highlights that jump out to me (it's a gigantic announcement, so even the highlights are long):
Today’s actions include:

The Department of Transportation, in partnership with the Department of Energy, finalized new standards to make charging EVs convenient and reliable for all Americans, including when driving long distances. The new standards will ensure everyone can use the network – no matter what car you drive or which state you charge in. The standards also require strong workforce standards;

The Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) outlined its final plan for compliance with the Build America, Buy America Act for federally funded EV chargers. Effective immediately, all EV chargers funded through the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law must be built in the United States. The plan requires that, effective immediately, final assembly and all manufacturing processes for any iron or steel charger enclosures or housing occur in the United States. By July 2024, at least 55 percent of the cost of all components will need to be manufactured domestically as well;

...

FHWA announced details for its soon-to-launch Charging and Fueling Infrastructure (CFI) discretionary grant program. The program will make available more than $2.5 billion over five years – including $700 million in funding through the first round of funding available to states, localities, Tribes, territories, and public authorities – to deploy publicly accessible charging and alternative fueling infrastructure in communities across the country, including at schools, grocery stores, parks, libraries, apartment complexes, and everywhere else Americans live and work; and,

The Administration highlighted major manufacturing and other new facilities spurred by these investments and the Biden-Harris Administration’s Made in America policies, including new commitments from domestic EV charging manufacturers and network operators.
Today, FHWA, with support from the Joint Office, unveiled new national standards for federally funded EV chargers, including NEVI-funded chargers.

...

Until now, there were no comprehensive standards for the installation, operation, or maintenance of EV charging stations, and disparities exist among EV charging stations in key areas, such as connector types, payment methods, data privacy, speed and power of chargers, reliability, and the overall user experience. A recent survey of EV users reported frustration with chargers that are too slow, too crowded, or that just don’t work. Under FHWA’s new standards, we are fixing this. The standards will ensure that:

Charging is a predictable and reliable experience, by ensuring that there are consistent plug types, power levels, and a minimum number of chargers capable of supporting drivers’ fast charging needs;
Chargers are working when drivers need them to, by requiring a 97 percent uptime reliability requirement;
Drivers can easily find a charger when they need to, by providing publicly accessible data on locations, price, availability, and accessibility through mapping applications;
Drivers do not have to use multiple apps and accounts to charge, by requiring that a single method of identification works across all chargers; and,
Chargers will support drivers’ needs well into the future, by requiring compatibility with forward-looking capabilities like Plug and Charge.
The standards will also help to ensure that these historic investments in EV charging create good-paying jobs and that EV chargers are well-serviced by requiring strong workforce standards such as Registered Apprenticeships and the Electric Vehicle Infrastructure Training Program (EVITP). Through the White House Talent Pipeline Challenge, International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers (IBEW) has certified 20,000 electricians through EVITP.

Together, the standards will ensure that chargers operated by different networks operate similarly and provide the traveling public with a predictable EV charging experience – no matter what car you drive or what state you charge in.
Tesla, for the first time, will open a portion of its U.S. Supercharger and Destination Charger network to non-Tesla EVs, making at least 7,500 chargers available for all EVs by the end of 2024. The open chargers will be distributed across the United States. They will include at least 3,500 new and existing 250 kW Superchargers along highway corridors to expand freedom of travel for all EVs, and Level 2 Destination Charging at locations like hotels and restaurants in urban and rural locations. All EV drivers will be able to access these stations using the Tesla app or website. Additionally, Tesla will more than double its full nationwide network of Superchargers, manufactured in Buffalo, New York.
There are a lot of smaller announcements by specific companies in the release, as well.

The tl;dr keys for me:
-Tesla is opening up a subset rather than all stalls, which should help mitigate the network getting overwhelmed by non-Teslas. Also, Tesla is getting the funding without the (previously-postulated) requirement of having to add dumb stuff like displays or card readers to their stalls.
-Federally-funded stations will have a 97% uptime requirement, and that requirement will include specifics--the charger must be working and outputting the power level that it's supposed to to be considered up. I can sense Electrify America hiring crews for a repair fleet as I type.
-Federally-funded stations need to share real-time data with mapping services, so no more checking the EA app or the Tesla app to see the current status of charging stalls on those networks, for example. Google will know, as well.

My not-fully-educated guess on the Tesla-specific implications here is that they'll install the magic dock CCS adapter on 1 or 2 of each 4-stall unit of future Supercharger installs, and will retrofit similarly where needed.

The timelines range from summer of this year for some of the smaller announcements to end of 2024 for the bigger ones. My guess is we won't see much change from this announcement until the waning months of 2023 at the earliest. Even so, this is all good stuff.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

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They're not wasting time...



I imagine there won't be hundreds of locations when they flip the switch, but it's looking like it also won't be just a handful. Also interesting that they appear to be retrofitting every stall rather than just a subset.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by Daehawk »

Should be a law where the fastest chargers are made available everywhere not just slow ass ones that take an hour or two.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

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Yep, cable length is really my only big concern.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

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The Meal wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:00 pm Yep, cable length is really my only big concern.
Hopefully sites planned after this point will include a greater diversity of stall layouts. (Pull-thru, end stalls perpendicular to the rest of the row, etc)
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

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So it begins... It looks like they're starting with ~10 sites in NY and 2 in CA.

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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

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Give them credit - it's happening way faster than I expected.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

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stessier wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:14 am
Zaxxon wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:58 am
Zaxxon wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:14 amI'd like it if Xcel adopted your program's incentives, though. I think we got $80 for signing up both cars, and we get $30 each/year or something similar.
I spoke too soon. Xcel's annual 'payment' just came through, and it's $150 for us (in Amazon gift cards). I'll take that.
Nice!

I've charged twice with Optiwatt in charge, so to speak, and so far so good. My only complaint is the MyChevrolet app will no longer update the battery state of charge. I don't want to turn off Optiwatt and risk my cash, so I'm just going to live with it for 3 months and then try troubleshooting.
I still need to wait a while before troubleshooting, but Optiwatt is definitely doing something. I have my car signed up for Recurrent tracking and it stopped getting data on the day I engaged Optiwatt as well. MyChevy app hasn't been able to access the battery either.

Optiwatt has worked fine for charging, but all of it's screens seem broken - none of them show the data they are supposed to except during an actual charging session. Whole thing is odd.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by malchior »

Re: Magic Dock - Tesla out of nowhere stood up a new charging station about 1 mile from me. It is apparently in the final stages of inspection and curious to see if a brand new installation gets the CCS treatment. I am cautiously optimistic the federal credits are really driving Tesla to rapidly expand their network.

However, on a less positive note the post on my town group about this was chock full of misinformation about EVs, charging, and bizarrely solar shingles and solar (with a "fire chief" saying it is a huge fire risk and not ready for prime time - LOL). Sigh.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

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malchior wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 1:38 pmHowever, on a less positive note the post on my town group about this was chock full of misinformation about EVs, charging, and bizarrely solar shingles and solar (with a "fire chief" saying it is a huge fire risk and not ready for prime time - LOL). Sigh.
Boy, Nextdoor in particular has been a wasteland of solar PV misinformation for years in my area.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by Zaxxon »

As expected, Kyle from Out of Spec Reviews has a great rundown of the ins and outs of the non-Teslas-charging-at-Superchargers situation.

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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by Zaxxon »

Out of Spec has a look at the Mach-E and where it's improved since launch.




In other news, my X gets updated on Tuesday to support CCS charging, so I'm interested to get some first-hand experience trying out other DCFC options on our next road trip later this month.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

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Not what you think but a good watch.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

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Betteridge's Law applies.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

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Zaxxon wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 2:39 pm Betteridge's Law applies.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by Kurth »

Showed up at my CPA's yesterday to sign my returns and noticed I didn't receive the $7,500 tax credit for the Hyundai Kona EV we purchased in 2022. He told me that, unfortunately, the law changed in August to add a new requirement:
Vehicles Purchased After August 16, 2022: New Final Assembly Requirement
If you buy and take delivery of a qualified electric vehicle between August 17, 2022 and December 31, 2022, the same rules apply, plus the vehicle must also undergo final assembly in North America.

To see if your model meets the assembly requirements, check the Department of Energy's page on Electric Vehicles with Final Assembly in North America. On that page you can:

Confirm the assembly location for your specific vehicle using the VIN Decoder tool under "Specific Assembly Location Based on VIN."
Check a list of qualifying Model Year 2022 and early Model Year 2023 electric vehicles under "For Vehicles Purchased before January 1, 2023."
Because some models are built in multiple locations, you should check both criteria for any specific vehicle.
He told me the Kona doesn't meet this new final assembly requirement, which was news to me.

Luckily, I realized he was getting our purchase date from the insurance information we had sent him which was actually a renewal. We purchased the car in late May 2022, well in advance of this new requirement. So, we are getting the credit, but I just thought I'd drop this here as an FYI. I don't follow the EV scene all that closely, but I this change in the law never seemed to get much fanfare or publicity to me. Would have been a nasty surprise if we had purchased our car after that date.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by malchior »

Kurth wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:43 pmLuckily, I realized he was getting our purchase date from the insurance information we had sent him which was actually a renewal. We purchased the car in late May 2022, well in advance of this new requirement. So, we are getting the credit, but I just thought I'd drop this here as an FYI. I don't follow the EV scene all that closely, but I this change in the law never seemed to get much fanfare or publicity to me. Would have been a nasty surprise if we had purchased our car after that date.
There was a ton of kvetching about it at the time in the "EV-aware" community IMO. Not so much in the general news cycle where it might have merited a story or two max.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by Zaxxon »

malchior wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:02 pm
Kurth wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:43 pmLuckily, I realized he was getting our purchase date from the insurance information we had sent him which was actually a renewal. We purchased the car in late May 2022, well in advance of this new requirement. So, we are getting the credit, but I just thought I'd drop this here as an FYI. I don't follow the EV scene all that closely, but I this change in the law never seemed to get much fanfare or publicity to me. Would have been a nasty surprise if we had purchased our car after that date.
There was a ton of kvetching about it at the time in the "EV-aware" community IMO. Not so much in the general news cycle where it might have merited a story or two max.
Just as we'll have another similar event later this month when battery sourcing rules come online (which are still unsettled).
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by stessier »

stessier wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 11:12 am
stessier wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:14 am
Zaxxon wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:58 am
Zaxxon wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:14 amI'd like it if Xcel adopted your program's incentives, though. I think we got $80 for signing up both cars, and we get $30 each/year or something similar.
I spoke too soon. Xcel's annual 'payment' just came through, and it's $150 for us (in Amazon gift cards). I'll take that.
Nice!

I've charged twice with Optiwatt in charge, so to speak, and so far so good. My only complaint is the MyChevrolet app will no longer update the battery state of charge. I don't want to turn off Optiwatt and risk my cash, so I'm just going to live with it for 3 months and then try troubleshooting.
I still need to wait a while before troubleshooting, but Optiwatt is definitely doing something. I have my car signed up for Recurrent tracking and it stopped getting data on the day I engaged Optiwatt as well. MyChevy app hasn't been able to access the battery either.

Optiwatt has worked fine for charging, but all of it's screens seem broken - none of them show the data they are supposed to except during an actual charging session. Whole thing is odd.
Just got an update that the pilot period ends at the end of the month and going forward, if I use Optiwatt 80% of the time, I will get a $50 credit each January. I'll have to see - Optiwatt hasn't done anything I wasn't already doing, but it has reduced the usefulness of MyChevy and I think caused my home charger to send start/stop messages every hour - not sure if it is checking that the power is still there or what, but it never used to do that.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
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Zaxxon
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by Zaxxon »

CCS retrofit complete, and it works! Parked next to a Walmart delivery van that's charging up, which is kind of neat. Shitty speed, but to be expected since I rolled in at 80% with a cold battery. Successful test, though!

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Formix
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by Formix »

Apropos of nothing, I really hope Aptera makes it. I want to drive a spaceship dammit! If not, I suppose I'll probably get one of the Ioniqs. Does anyone have one?
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Zaxxon
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by Zaxxon »

Formix wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 5:05 am Apropos of nothing, I really hope Aptera makes it. I want to drive a spaceship dammit! If not, I suppose I'll probably get one of the Ioniqs. Does anyone have one?
One of our friends has an Ioniq 5.
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Zaxxon
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by Zaxxon »

Everyone wants to see a robot dry-hump a pickup truck, right?

malchior
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by malchior »

New tax credit regime unveiled and it is clear as mud.
The Treasury Department on Friday finally issued guidance on the battery production and minerals sourcing requirements for federal EV tax credits for consumers, though the rules may create more chaos than clarity.
Understatement of the year. I tried to read the rules and it's pretty much impossible to understand. There are more than a handful of sourcing requirements that seem rife for mistakes/abuse. The automakers themselves don't even know what is eligible for the credit because now they have to run down all their supply chains. It's a total mess.
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stessier
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by stessier »

April 18th is the new deadline it seems. And so I wait. I'm hoping the Bolt will still qualify.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
Global Steam Wishmaslist Tracking
Running____2014: 1300.55 miles____2015: 2036.13 miles____2016: 1012.75 miles____2017: 1105.82 miles____2018: 1318.91 miles__2019: 2000.00 miles
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