Post-Withdrawal Iraq

[malchior]

This is such bullshit.

This is what happens when you’re given the choice of attending or being killed.

It doesn't even come close to passing the basic logic test. But then again she knows the deplorables are cultist drones.

Pro-jec-tion. And it's why they're expecting actual record crowds for Trump's coronation second inauguration.

Actually, there's some truth to the senator's post:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... soleimani/

Not everyone in Iran loved the general, many hated him.

Paywalled op-ed but my point was that they are projecting their own ambitions regardless of what is or isn't actually happening on Iran.

That is my take a well. Her point is well taken though that similar to what El Guapo said we cant take the crowds as definitive proof of support. However we can say that this has been spun into a major event that the regime will use to push forward with a hardline agenda. It will not be peaceful.

[Enough]

Mourning or otherwise, at least 56 people are confirmed dead in the crush at the funeral procession in Soleimani's home town.

The whole "attend or be killed" statement is ridiculous not because anyone is going to argue that Iranians all loved this guy, but because who the hell would take attendance in a crowd like this:



Bet Trump wishes he had inauguration crowds like this...

Also because it appears to be "attend and possibly be killed."

Dancing in the streets, am I right?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[Grifman]

Mourning or otherwise, at least 56 people are confirmed dead in the crush at the funeral procession in Soleimani's home town.

The whole "attend or be killed" statement is ridiculous not because anyone is going to argue that Iranians all loved this guy, but because who the hell would take attendance in a crowd like this:

They drive a bus up to your work or school to take you to the funeral. Pretty easy to see who does or does not go. There are also tons of internal spies/informers like those of the East German Stasi who report on what people do or do not do. Just the fear of being caught is a huge incentive to act appropriately.

[Victoria Raverna]

Mourning or otherwise, at least 56 people are confirmed dead in the crush at the funeral procession in Soleimani's home town.

The whole "attend or be killed" statement is ridiculous not because anyone is going to argue that Iranians all loved this guy, but because who the hell would take attendance in a crowd like this:

They drive a bus up to your work or school to take you to the funeral. Pretty easy to see who does or does not go. There are also tons of internal spies/informers like those of the East German Stasi who report on what people do or do not do. Just the fear of being caught is a huge incentive to act appropriately.

Was that from a news report or just your idea about how to force people to attend?

[Grifman]

Mourning or otherwise, at least 56 people are confirmed dead in the crush at the funeral procession in Soleimani's home town.

The whole "attend or be killed" statement is ridiculous not because anyone is going to argue that Iranians all loved this guy, but because who the hell would take attendance in a crowd like this:

They drive a bus up to your work or school to take you to the funeral. Pretty easy to see who does or does not go. There are also tons of internal spies/informers like those of the East German Stasi who report on what people do or do not do. Just the fear of being caught is a huge incentive to act appropriately.

Was that from a news report or just your idea about how to force people to attend?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51021854

But it is also clear that the government launched a massive effort to mobilise as many people as possible. The huge turnout sent a strong signal to President Trump that the government enjoys widespread support.

For years, whenever they were short of answers to big problems facing the country, Iranian leaders have relied on mass shows of popular support. Historically, rallies have been to intimidate and silence opposition.

The organisers are now expert in their work. From declaring national holidays to rallying university students or demanding that military personnel and government employees come out with their families, every method of gathering crowds has been used.

Buses, trains and trucks are provided to transport people from villages and towns across Iran to rallies that are relentless advertised by state TV.

People turn up in large numbers because they feel required to do so.

Hardline organisers have powerful supporters, including in the Basij paramilitary force and in the Revolutionary Guards, who can always be relied on to do their duty.

[malchior]

Iraq is demanding a team to put together a time table for leaving Iraq.

I wonder if a neocon is willing to speak up and say 'mission accomplished'. Saddam is gone. Iraq has a democracy. They are using that democracy to tell us to get to stepping after putting their nation at risk. Fair enough IMO.

In a phone call with U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, Iraqi Prime Minister Adel Abdul Mahdi asked the United States send a delegation to Iraq to set up a mechanism for U.S. troop withdrawal from the country, a statement from the prime minister's office said Friday.

The request followed a vote by the Iraqi parliament to expel thousands of U.S. troops, a direct consequence of a U.S. drone attackthat killed senior Iranian commander Qasem Soleimani and nine companionsin Baghdad a week ago.

The killing set off a string of events in the region. On Tuesday, Iran retaliated for the death of its revered Quds Force commander by launching more than a dozen ballistic missiles at two military bases that house U.S. troops in Iraq. President Trump said the strike caused no American or Iraqi deaths and that new sanctions on Iran will be imposed.

The Iraqi prime minister has repeatedly insisted that U.S. troop withdrawal was the only path toward de-escalation. In the phone call on Thursday, he asked Pompeo “to send representatives to Iraq to put in place a mechanism for implementing the parliament’s decision for the safe withdrawal of forces from Iraq.”

[malchior]

Another "fun" tidbit

[LawBeefaroni]

Another "fun" tidbit

Sentence structure. It's important.

[Holman]

Are we a gangster state yet?

[malchior]

No no. Just misunderstood. Though tbh this type of stuff happens all the time when major powers deal with their clients. The chief difference being we have not been acting responsibly where it concerns them.

[Kraken]

Anybody else forget that we still have troops in Iraq? People are being mean to them again.

[Pyperkub]

A vote to rescind the AUMF!

The House voted on Thursday to revoke the authorization it gave in 2002 to invade Iraq, a step that would rein in presidential war-making powers for the first time in a generation.

The strong bipartisan action reflected growing determination on Capitol Hill to revisit the broad authority that Congress provided to President George W. Bush following the Sept. 11 attacks through measures that successive presidents have used to justify military action around the world.

The 2002 authorization was repeatedly applied well beyond its original intent, including in a campaign much later against the Islamic State in Iraq and for the killing of the Iranian general Qassim Suleimani last year.

Will it get filibustered? Probably, at least until there are carveouts for unlimited drone and air strikes...

[Isgrimnur]

CNN

Iraqi Prime Minister Mustafa Al-Kadhimi escaped an assassination attempt on Sunday after an explosive-laden drone targeted his residence, the country's military said.

Al-Kadhimi went on to Twitter moments after the attack and called for "calm and restraint from everyone."
...
The Iraqi military said afterward that Al-Kadhimi was unharmed and in good health, and that security forces were "taking the necessary measures in connection with this failed attempt."

[Pyperkub]

An end to the AUMF?

The Senate advanced a bill Thursday that would repeal the legal justifications used to attack Iraq in 1991 and 2003, nearly 20 years to the day since the U.S. began its "shock and awe" campaign to topple dictator Saddam Hussein.

The bipartisan legislation would repeal the 2002 authorization for the use of military force, or AUMF, that Congress approved for the 2003 invasion, as well as the 1991 authorization for the first Gulf War. The bill, which has 12 Republicans among its 41 co-sponsors, easily advanced by a vote of 68 to 27, setting up a vote on final passage as soon as next week.

[Unagi]

On one hand, I have always wanted the use of our military to be squarely back in the hands of congress, where it is supposed to lie, and for good reason.

And yet now I'm suddenly seeing a future where Russia knows it can do anything it wants because it has half of the congress in its pocketbook.

[stessier]

Presidents deployed forces without that authorization before - don't see why they won't again.

[Pyperkub]

A pretty interesting look at Iraq, 20 years post invasion.

For Iraqis, the enduring trauma of the violence that followed is undeniable — an estimated 300,000 Iraqis were killed between 2003 and 2019, according to the Watson Institute for International and Public Affairs at Brown University, as were more than 8,000 U.S. military, contractors and civilians. The period was marred by unemployment, dislocation, sectarian violence and terrorism, and years without reliable electricity or other public services.

Today, half of Iraq’s population of 40 million isn’t old enough to remember life under Saddam or much about the U.S. invasion. In dozens of recent interviews from Baghdad to Fallujah, young Iraqis deplored the loss of stability that followed Saddam’s downfall — but they said the war is in the past, and many were hopeful about nascent freedoms and opportunities to pursue their dreams.

One definitely needs to read between the lines a bit in the interviews to see that there are both good and bad things still happening.

Meanwhile, digital natives are testing the boundaries of identity and free speech, especially on TikTok and Instagram. They sometimes look over their shoulders, aware that shadowy militias connected to political parties may be listening, ready to squelch too much liberalism. More than a dozen social media influencers were arrested recently in a crackdown on “immoral” content, and this month authorities said they would enforce a long-dormant law banning alcohol imports.

In 2019-20, fed-up Iraqis, especially young people, protested across the country against corruption and lack of basic services. After more than 600 were killed by government forces and militias, parliament agreed to a series of election law changes designed to allow more minorities and independent groups to share power.

[El Guapo]

On one hand, I have always wanted the use of our military to be squarely back in the hands of congress, where it is supposed to lie, and for good reason.

And yet now I'm suddenly seeing a future where Russia knows it can do anything it wants because it has half of the congress in its pocketbook.

The AUMF doesn't help with Russia anyway. It basically gives the president the power to use all necessary force to deal with nations or groups that were involved in 9/11 or which aided such groups. That language has definitely been stretch, but I don't think anyone has argued that it applies to Russia. At that point if you're president you're better off arguing based upon inherent executive authority rather than upon the AUMF.

[Unagi]

I wasn’t picturing fighting Russia exactly, but more like an Assad like figure being supported by Russia who now can rely on congress blocking any military response if that is what Russia would like.

Although I imagine I'm still missing it.


In any case, still, it all gave me pause - as I have come to see enough pro-Russia comments from that body to shudder at the thought of any congressional majority voting to wage war against an aggressive Russia at this point.

[Pyperkub]

An interesting look back at the lies regarding the initial invasion, 20 years ago today:

At a congressional hearing examining the march to war in Iraq, Republican congressman Walter Jones posed “a very simple question” about the administration’s manipulation of intelligence: “How could the professionals see what was happening and nobody speak out?”

Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, Colin Powell’s former chief of staff, responded with an equally simple answer: “The vice president.”

There are a few things I didn't know, tho I remembered the 9/11 note to pin it on Iraq.

Here's one I didn't remember seeing:

1/30/01 Saddam’s removal is top item of Bush’s inaugural national security meeting. Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill later recalls, “It was all about finding a way to do it. The president saying, ‘Go find me a way to do this.'” [Date the public knew: 1/10/04]