The Viral Economy

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coopasonic
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by coopasonic »

Blackhawk wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 4:34 pm Save ings (are we low on ings?)
They are definitely endangered.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Kraken »

Blackhawk wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 4:34 pm Savings. That's a funny word.

Savings.

Say, Vings!

Save ings (are we low on ings?)
The cash from selling our Lansing house is still sitting in a savings account, because reasons. Interest rate hikes are our friends.
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waitingtoconnect
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by waitingtoconnect »

LordMortis wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:09 am short. Depositors will be whole. Taxpayer won't pay. Management fired. Malfeasance will be investigated as possible cause and steps taken if found. Trump admin gutted Dodd Frank. Blame them. The economy is awesome. No questions.

So that was both there to score political points and something I don't disagree with except 1) I don't know enough to understand if the Tax Payer is on the hook. Instincts say we are. And 2) the economy is awesome. *shrug*.
The risk to the broader economy is definitely there. The deposit insurance scheme only has 125 billion in it and there is 18 trillion in the us banking sector. A broad panic aka 1929 could collapse the system but it is unlikely unless Tucker Carlson gets annoying. Most likely the wholesale funding underpinning these banks won’t be refunded and the providers of those funds will take a bath. That means banks with good balance sheets may suffer as that funding will get harder to find.

These banks mixed good tech and other loans in with shockingly bad crypto ones in a similar but not quite identical approach to that taken by banks pre GFC. You are right they could never have done this without trumps loosening of the law. But of course it’s all the woke democrats fault.
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LordMortis
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LordMortis »

Rick Santelli on CNBC this morning "ESG is all over the banking failure. I'm not saying it caused it. I'm just saying you need to keep an open mind." :roll:
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Kraken »

I have one ESG fund. It runs in the middle of the pack. It should do better as Biden’s policies in the Inflation Reduction Act start to ramp up.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

Santelli has always been a living parody of all the NJ/NY area guys who ride the train in everyday to work at the exchanges.
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LordMortis
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LordMortis »

malchior wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:13 am Santelli has always been a living parody of all the NJ/NY area guys who ride the train in everyday to work at the exchanges.
He seems like right wing Lewis Black without the funny to me. He generally pretty ignorable when goes Op Ed like an uncle at holiday dinner. He's nothing like a certain Joe, who gets so intolerable with his Op Ed that I have to turn the TV off, that was on explicitly to keep me company.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Smoove_B »

Let's ask a Wall Street financier what he thinks about working at home


Is the remote work really working? I'm not so sure.
Sharing mainly for the replies in his Tweet. :lol:
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

That article has been written how many times? 50? 100? There is absolutely nothing original or of any value really but the dinosaur's at the NYT are there for it.
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GreenGoo
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by GreenGoo »

Workplace culture battle.

It's mostly just North America. Everyone else isn't fixated on who's the boss, only that the work gets done.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

GreenGoo wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:36 am Workplace culture battle.

It's mostly just North America. Everyone else isn't fixated on who's the boss, only that the work gets done.
And our management class is chock full of dinosaurs who still think it is 1970. I've been working mostly remote for almost 12 years. Even before I could point at my billings to show value I did things like define the work. Monitor the output. Show value. It's not hard.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by GreenGoo »

Musk was born in the 70's.

For guys like him it's about control and being the boss. That's it.

On the one hand, they are the boss, they get to make the rules. On the other, how fragile are they?
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LawBeefaroni »

GreenGoo wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:14 pm Musk was born in the 70's.

For guys like him it's about control and being the boss. That's it.

On the one hand, they are the boss, they get to make the rules. On the other, how fragile are they?
Because it's worked for them so far. When it doesn't work, they'll have to adapt or fail.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by pr0ner »

Full time telework is a massive success where I work.

Except for the new employees that are being hired virtually (which is everyone since the pandemic began). The current attrition rate for new hires is 50% before their first year ends.

There's a reason why new employees were required to report to campus for their first year and until they showed competency at the job. A lot of work needs to be done to adjust how new examiners are trained if my agency wants to actually start keeping a majority of the new people they bring in.
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GreenGoo
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by GreenGoo »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:32 pm Because it's worked for them so far. When it doesn't work, they'll have to adapt or fail.
Did it, though? How do they know? Perhaps they could use that (whatever they were previously using to know it "worked") criteria to understand if wfm is working as well. Hell, this is crazy, but perhaps do a comparison to see which works better for their staff?

Imagine if everyone worked from home but had to go into the office because reasons. Would they immediately send everyone back home after the reasons stopped because it's worked for them previously?

edit: It's clear to me that they (universal they) haven't a clue what they are doing, and are making decisions based on gut feeling. I guess some businesses can be a success based on feelings, but I like data. Of which I have access to exactly 1 set. My own. (mostly positive but some minor negatives as well, in terms of productivity only).

I guess that's where my real beef lies. They aren't even trying to be objective about it. Leadership by feelings and culture wars to validate those feelings. Annoying.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LordMortis »

Someone on CNBC (Julie Beil) had the nerve to suggest a trillion dollars injected into the economy through COVID is not the consumer still flush with cash but is in the hands of the wealthy who are not likely to spend it.

1) after forever of exclusively pushing the exact opposite narrative, I'm surprised someone stated this counter.
2) this confirms my bias so it must be true.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Smoove_B »

I don't even know where to put this anymore. Here? 21st Century GOP? Both? Regardless, I know when I think of amazingly positive legislation being passed, 4am is when that typically occurs.


At 4am, Republicans in the Iowa Senate passed a bill allowing 14-year-olds to work nightshifts, 15-year-olds to work assembly lines, and 16-year-olds to serve alcohol.

They’re trying to use child labor to fix their labor shortage.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Isgrimnur »

Iowa, Jan 1, 2023
Of the 20 states that have failed to raise the minimum wage above the federal $7.25 an hour standard, 16 have more than 12% of their children living in poverty, according to a States Newsroom analysis of wage and poverty data.

Iowa, which has maintained the $7.25 an hour minimum wage, has a child poverty rate of 12%, according to 2020 data.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

Yeah think of those poor kids. They can now pull themselves up by the bootstraps! AMERICAN VALUES! AMERICAN SOLUTIONS! Hell Yeah!
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Smoove_B »

I wonder what is happening?
Britain saw a record number of working days lost due to short-term sickness last year and zero annual growth in economic output per hour worked in the final quarter of 2022, according to official data released on Wednesday.

The figures from the Office for National Statistics highlight the challenges facing Britain as it emerges from the COVID-19 pandemic, as well its long-term struggle with productivity which has weighed on living standards for years.

British workers took 185.6 million days off work due to sickness or injury in 2022. This was more than during the height of the COVID-19 pandemic itself, when fewer sick days were recorded as millions of workers were on furlough and lockdown restrictions reduced exposure to minor illnesses.

The record partly reflects the growth in Britain's workforce over recent years, but even measured as a percentage of hours worked, the sickness rate was the highest since 2004, with 2.6% of hours lost due to sickness or injury, up from 1.9% in 2019.

The rise in the percentage of days lost to sickness reverses a long-term downward trend in ONS data going back to 1995.
So weird.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Smoove_B »

In an effort to make sure Elon Musk is in every forum, every topic:
Elon Musk, who heads Tesla, SpaceX, and Twitter and to date has no clones we know of, slammed remote work in a wide-ranging interview with CNBC’s David Faber on Tuesday. Musk said the practice was “morally wrong,” despite the fact that he’s hardly the best example of an office-going parishioner.

Musk’s distaste for remote work isn’t new. Shortly after he took over Twitter last year, Musk ended the company’s “work from home forever” policy, which had been created by the company’s previous CEO, Jack Dorsey, and ordered everyone back into the office. The move came a few months after Musk delivered the same edict at Tesla, telling employees at the electric car company that people who wanted to continue to work from home should “pretend to work somewhere else.”

...

The laptop class is living in la la land. Look at the cars,” he said, referencing Tesla’s factory. “Are people working from home here? Of course not. The people [that are] building the cars, servicing the cars, building houses, fixing houses, or making the food, making all the things that people consume—it’s messed up to assume that they have to go to work but you don’t. [Why] is that? It’s not just a productivity thing. I think it’s morally wrong.”
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GreenGoo
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by GreenGoo »

Can someone explain to him that when I go into my office I remote into the same locations I remote into when I'm at home, except my connection is faster and more reliable when I'm at home?

But sure, add a 1-2 hour commute to my day for less speed so that things are "morale". How about we stop letting Musk make decisions over the phone? He must physically be present wherever he needs to tell people what to do, otherwise he's an immoral douchenozzle.

Why didn't the interviewer ask if Musk is always co-located with his people when he's working. if not, why not? And does he thinks morals don't apply to him?

I fucking hate this guy so very, very much.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Smoove_B »

I found it interesting that he's making it a moral issue. Even if you're able to deliver identical productivity, it's morally wrong to not be in an office.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LordMortis »

it’s messed up to assume that they have to go to work but you don’t. [Why] is that? It’s not just a productivity thing. I think it’s morally wrong.”
Why should executives make millions or billions of dollars when they employ people who make 10s of thousands? It's messed up to think these executives have the power to decide that successful work means commutes and presence in an office if there is no metric for value addition. Why is that? It's not just a productivity thing. I think it's morally wrong.

I'm even more on edge today because in addition to having to hear from or about Musk every day, McCarthy was on TV today talking about forcing more people in the workplace because more people want to be in the workplace. And no one presses him on his ultimate stupidity orders from the billionaire class like the ideas are his and they are ignored salient points nor even grounded in reason. Yes we want you to cut the social security and medicare we've paid in to our entire lives so we can enjoy working until we're 75 or die under your yoke. That is what a fulfilling life is all about. It had never occurred to me. You fuck.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Octavious »

My entire job is working with people in other countries. So we're never in the same place. If I'm at home or sitting in a cubical it makes zero difference to them. I seriously just want to punch people like that in the nuts. Yes there are jobs where you have to be present in person, but there are also jobs where it's 100% pointless. My wife does claims where she doesn't work with anyone in her office at all. The computer at home is better than what they have. Why go in? What are we morally saving?
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LordMortis »

Octavious wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 12:07 pm Why go in? What are we morally saving?
Increased paychecks to the people who have to commute. That money needs to remain in the pockets of the wealth creators. It's unfair to the commuters to not have a larger paycheck for commuting if you higher make a wage without a commute. We should all be equally poor, except for the executives and the share holders. What are you really doing with that extra time and money from not commuting anyway?
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by ImLawBoy »

My employer has announced that we're going back to the office, plus we're eliminating offices! What the hell does that mean? Well, we currently have three designations: Full Time Office (3-5 days per week in office), Flex (1-3 days per week in office), and Virtual (1-5 days per month in office). Flex will be going away, and virtual will be limited to something like 7% of the workforce. Additionally, we have hundreds of offices throughout the country. We will be consolidating into 9 core offices. We will still have a lot of small offices for sales and support functions, I imagine. For extra added fun, none of those core 9 offices are in Chicago! Legal functions will be consolidated primarily in Dallas and Atlanta, although we'll need some regional folks in big states and DC. (None of this info is confidential or anything - I've seen news stories relating it.)

I start my lobbying efforts to remain in Chicago today! Hell, if they want to call me virtual and assign me to Dallas, I can fly in once a month for a day (on my dime, of course). We've got a large medical and support network in this area, so I'm hoping they'll listen to reason.

(No, it's just purely coincidence that I'm looking at my resume for the first time in ages. Why do you ask?)
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by stessier »

ImLawBoy wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 12:21 pm My employer has announced that we're going back to the office, plus we're eliminating offices! What the hell does that mean? Well, we currently have three designations: Full Time Office (3-5 days per week in office), Flex (1-3 days per week in office), and Virtual (1-5 days per month in office). Flex will be going away, and virtual will be limited to something like 7% of the workforce. Additionally, we have hundreds of offices throughout the country. We will be consolidating into 9 core offices. We will still have a lot of small offices for sales and support functions, I imagine. For extra added fun, none of those core 9 offices are in Chicago! Legal functions will be consolidated primarily in Dallas and Atlanta, although we'll need some regional folks in big states and DC. (None of this info is confidential or anything - I've seen news stories relating it.)

I start my lobbying efforts to remain in Chicago today! Hell, if they want to call me virtual and assign me to Dallas, I can fly in once a month for a day (on my dime, of course). We've got a large medical and support network in this area, so I'm hoping they'll listen to reason.

(No, it's just purely coincidence that I'm looking at my resume for the first time in ages. Why do you ask?)
That really stinks. I hope you can make them see reason.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by hepcat »

I have it on good authority though that a move to Dallas would mean free babysitting from Issie.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LordMortis »

It's odd to me that Chicago may not be big enough to need lawyers... Unless they are somehow not working from Chicago. Which would suggest remote work for Chicago's needs...
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hepcat
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by hepcat »

This is Chicago. If there's a dispute over a busines, you just take the other people down to the shoe store and fit them for lead shoes.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

Smoove_B wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 11:45 amI think it’s morally wrong.”
No one should consider or care about what Musk considers moral.
Smoove_B wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 12:00 pm I found it interesting that he's making it a moral issue. Even if you're able to deliver identical productivity, it's morally wrong to not be in an office.
Mostly because he has no clue what it means. He is one of the most immoral/unethical people in the world. It's absurd to claim a work arrangement that is so widely recognized and practiced as immoral.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by hepcat »

While I disagree with Musk about it being immoral, I do have a personal bias here thanks to some coworkers who really SHOULD be in the office but are taking advantage of pandemic era edicts about working from home. I understand that I'm probably in the minority for liking the structure that an office provides me, but I don't think I'm too off base by saying that I one hundred percent believe there are more than a few people taking advantage of working from home.

For example: there are two people who work in administration in my office who should be here. But they jumped at the "work from home three days a week" that was offered during the height of the pandemic and have never looked back. They treat it as a right at this point. I can't even begin to count how many times they've called me at the office to have me do something that they should be doing, but can't because they're "working from home". They are most definitely taking advantage of the process.

Hell, we've had more than a few Microsoft Teams meetings during which we've had to wait 10 to 15 minutes for one of these two people to start paying attention to the actual goddamn meeting they're supposed to be in (they'll wonder off and then pretend there was an "emergency" when we all know damn well they were just gabbing on the phone or something.

One of our clients, a large utility in the southern region of the U.S., just instituted a policy for remote workers. They have to leave their cameras on at all times while working from home and in meetings. No exceptions. I feel we should do the same here, but I get shouted down by the two people I mentioned above when I bring it up.

Sorry...venting. :x
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Isgrimnur »

hepcat wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 12:36 pm I have it on good authority though that a move to Dallas would mean free babysitting from Issie.
coop has the better setup. Not sharing kennel space with the dogs may cost extra.
malchior wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 2:57 pm No one should consider or care about what Musk considers moral.
So much this.
hepcat wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 4:29 pm some coworkers who really SHOULD be in the office but are taking advantage of pandemic era edicts about working from home
That's a management issue.
hepcat wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 4:29 pm I can't even begin to count how many times they've called me at the office to have me do something that they should be doing, but can't because they're "working from home".
I think I'd be otherwise engaged when those calls came in.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LordMortis »

hepcat wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 4:29 pm One of our clients, a large utility in the southern region of the U.S., just instituted a policy for remote workers. They have to leave their cameras on at all times while working from home and in meetings. No exceptions. I feel we should do the same here, but I get shouted down by the two people I mentioned above when I bring it up.
I support work from home. The idea of key loggers and trackers and cameras on does not seem to obtrusive to me. That is a justifiable oversight for that kind of autonomy in many circumstances. Especially if your measurable for production is a but in a seat.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

LordMortis wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 11:18 pm
hepcat wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 4:29 pm One of our clients, a large utility in the southern region of the U.S., just instituted a policy for remote workers. They have to leave their cameras on at all times while working from home and in meetings. No exceptions. I feel we should do the same here, but I get shouted down by the two people I mentioned above when I bring it up.
I support work from home. The idea of key loggers and trackers and cameras on does not seem to obtrusive to me. That is a justifiable oversight for that kind of autonomy in many circumstances. Especially if your measurable for production is a but in a seat.
I disagree. Those are all signs of distrust. What is better is building a culture of trust that works on measuring and tracking work performed instead of micromanaging how it happens.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LordMortis »

Then you can come in to the office. The whole point is if I have a job for you that requires butt in seat as a measurable then I am going to track your butt being in the seat. Trust, whatever. If that is part of the job, then the discussion was moot from the start.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

LordMortis wrote: Thu May 18, 2023 7:42 am Then you can come in to the office. The whole point is if I have a job for you that requires butt in seat as a measurable then I am going to track your butt being in the seat. Trust, whatever. If that is part of the job, then the discussion was moot from the start.
There are certainly jobs that require "butt in seat" but that's not what I was getting at. Those are jobs that probably can't be remote in the first place. I was talking about jobs that can be done remotely and getting at the idea that jobs require work to be done. If managers can't define the work, then it probably doesn't need to be done. What I'm ultimately getting at is that 'tracking whether a butt is in a seat' is a substitute for what managers are supposed to do which is define the work and set up systems to track work being done. If they do that right then you can focus on getting work done and less worry about whether they are sitting in one place at all times which is often not about work at all.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Octavious »

Ya I think making people having cameras on at all times is really intrusive. If you give me a list of items that need to get done then that's all the proof you need. Like in my case I manage many projects. Are they getting done on time? Is the client happy? This is all tracked by plans and status reports.
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Re: The Viral Economy

Post by hepcat »

Issie hit the nail on the head for my particular situation. Management here has given these two leeway for years, so it's really on them. One of the two in particular can pretty much get away with murder at this point. I think my bosses are just afraid to fire people.

Still, I don't see any issue with making people use their cameras during meetings for remote workers. I was in a meeting Tuesday with one of the two I've mentioned and there were at least two instances where we had to wait for a few minutes whenever she was called upon to get her to respond (repeatedly saying "hello <her name>?") and then re explaining everything we had just been talking about.
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