That's an oversimplification and I don't think it's fair. As others have intimated, the ability to pass the tests provides foundational knowledge that can be used in the real world. The foundational math skills you learn to pass the math tests can then be applied to things like doing your taxes. Could they do better at making the connection to real world activities? Sure, but it's not like there are no efforts to show kids today how to use their educational skills in the real world.
Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
I'm with Blackhawk. I'm a very involved parent - I help with homework every night. The kids are constantly asking how they will ever use what they are learning - there is virtually no connection in the material itself. Could just be the SC school system though - I believe we are ranked somewhere in the 40s in the nation for a reason.ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:41 pmThat's an oversimplification and I don't think it's fair. As others have intimated, the ability to pass the tests provides foundational knowledge that can be used in the real world. The foundational math skills you learn to pass the math tests can then be applied to things like doing your taxes. Could they do better at making the connection to real world activities? Sure, but it's not like there are no efforts to show kids today how to use their educational skills in the real world.
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
But just because they aren't doing a good job of making the explicit connection doesn't mean that what they're doing won't help in the real world. Using the sentence diagramming example from earlier, they may not tell you that being able to parse a sentence will enhance your written communication skills and ability to write a cover letter going forward, but it will do that.stessier wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:56 pmI'm with Blackhawk. I'm a very involved parent - I help with homework every night. The kids are constantly asking how they will ever use what they are learning - there is virtually no connection in the material itself. Could just be the SC school system though - I believe we are ranked somewhere in the 40s in the nation for a reason.ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:41 pmThat's an oversimplification and I don't think it's fair. As others have intimated, the ability to pass the tests provides foundational knowledge that can be used in the real world. The foundational math skills you learn to pass the math tests can then be applied to things like doing your taxes. Could they do better at making the connection to real world activities? Sure, but it's not like there are no efforts to show kids today how to use their educational skills in the real world.
Maybe I'll have a different view as my kids age and their work gets more complex and abstract, but I can't jump in to the future (yet).
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
This thread has become very unsilly......
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
I'm still unclear how many people need quadratic equations beyond schooling years.
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
They come in very handy for doing your taxes.
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
Right, and maybe I'm putting words in Blackhawk's mouth, but let's take just a bit of the diagraming time and make room for actually teaching how to write the cover letter. Or how to balance a checkbook (which is the old standby). My daughter is in trig right now and was learning how to map sine and cosine waves. She was confused and so I mapped a couple for her and she noticed that the cosine was just a shifted sine wave - I was thrilled! But she was like - why do we care and it wasn't until I mentioned how that it ties into her beloved noise cancelling headphones that she saw the utility. She's a smart kid and does well in school but she doesn't know enough about the world to imagine how to apply things - she's just studying for the test. There has to be a better way. (I'm not blaming teachers either - it's how curriculums are setup.)ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:01 pmBut just because they aren't doing a good job of making the explicit connection doesn't mean that what they're doing won't help in the real world. Using the sentence diagramming example from earlier, they may not tell you that being able to parse a sentence will enhance your written communication skills and ability to write a cover letter going forward, but it will do that.stessier wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:56 pmI'm with Blackhawk. I'm a very involved parent - I help with homework every night. The kids are constantly asking how they will ever use what they are learning - there is virtually no connection in the material itself. Could just be the SC school system though - I believe we are ranked somewhere in the 40s in the nation for a reason.ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:41 pmThat's an oversimplification and I don't think it's fair. As others have intimated, the ability to pass the tests provides foundational knowledge that can be used in the real world. The foundational math skills you learn to pass the math tests can then be applied to things like doing your taxes. Could they do better at making the connection to real world activities? Sure, but it's not like there are no efforts to show kids today how to use their educational skills in the real world.
Maybe I'll have a different view as my kids age and their work gets more complex and abstract, but I can't jump in to the future (yet).
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
Stupid AMT!
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
I make my living fixing other people's sentences, but I've forgotten most of the rules and technicalities. I just have a good instinct for English based on a lifetime of reading and writing.Jaymann wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:05 pmThis. After 12 years of exposure, sentences just sound right or wrong.
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
If, and only if, that information is presented in a practical format, and only if it is taught in a way that doesn't lead to completely forgetting it two months later.ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:41 pmThat's an oversimplification and I don't think it's fair. As others have intimated, the ability to pass the tests provides foundational knowledge that can be used in the real world. The foundational math skills you learn to pass the math tests can then be applied to things like doing your taxes. Could they do better at making the connection to real world activities? Sure, but it's not like there are no efforts to show kids today how to use their educational skills in the real world.
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
When I was in school I was real good at taking tests. Doesn't mean I learned anything tho.
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
Not many! But unless we want to give up broad based education in the pre-college world, there are going to be some subjects that get learned that aren't going to have a practical use in all careers.
So, like I was saying, the schools could do a better job of drawing the connections to the real world, but the skills are still foundational and valuable? If that's the case, then I think you are blaming the teachers, because they're the ones who could be providing that context to the base curriculum.stessier wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:15 pm Right, and maybe I'm putting words in Blackhawk's mouth, but let's take just a bit of the diagraming time and make room for actually teaching how to write the cover letter. Or how to balance a checkbook (which is the old standby). My daughter is in trig right now and was learning how to map sine and cosine waves. She was confused and so I mapped a couple for her and she noticed that the cosine was just a shifted sine wave - I was thrilled! But she was like - why do we care and it wasn't until I mentioned how that it ties into her beloved noise cancelling headphones that she saw the utility. She's a smart kid and does well in school but she doesn't know enough about the world to imagine how to apply things - she's just studying for the test. There has to be a better way. (I'm not blaming teachers either - it's how curriculums are setup.)
All kids learn differently, of course, but it's not an "if and only if" scenario. Some kids will learn quite well just doing the times tables without practical application for them. For more complex subjects, I think that having the knowledge there as a background, even if you need a refresher on it in the real world, has real value. And the more you provide the real world context for a lot of these skills, the more you might get students rebelling against it. "I'm going to be a writer, so I don't need to know these quadratic equations - you said so yourself that their real world application doesn't have anything to do with what I want to do!" And then we start losing that idea of the broad based education that teaches kids lots of different subjects even if they don't end up using all of them in real life.Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:47 pmIf, and only if, that information is presented in a practical format, and only if it is taught in a way that doesn't lead to completely forgetting it two months later.ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:41 pmThat's an oversimplification and I don't think it's fair. As others have intimated, the ability to pass the tests provides foundational knowledge that can be used in the real world. The foundational math skills you learn to pass the math tests can then be applied to things like doing your taxes. Could they do better at making the connection to real world activities? Sure, but it's not like there are no efforts to show kids today how to use their educational skills in the real world.
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
I remember in high school (mid 60s) in geography class there were quite a few kids that still didn't know where Vietnam was.
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
Its that way. *points*
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
There is truth to that, but it is also true that human brains work a certain way outside of those individual variations. How memory works has been studied pretty extensively. There are ways of learning that lead to long-term recall and comprehension, and there are ways of learning that result in quicker short term gains, but lower understanding and reduced long-term retention. We teach via the latter, as it is the most efficient way to get kids ready to pass a test.
That is caused, not by the teachers, but by an institution that makes the more effective ways of teaching impossible to implement.
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
This.ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:01 pm But just because they aren't doing a good job of making the explicit connection doesn't mean that what they're doing won't help in the real world. Using the sentence diagramming example from earlier, they may not tell you that being able to parse a sentence will enhance your written communication skills and ability to write a cover letter going forward, but it will do that.
Diagramming sentences teaches you how words relate to each other. I (as a long-time English teacher) am surely pretty biased here, but I'm convinced that people knowing how language shapes statements and questions and descriptions is hugely important to shared public life.
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Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
Why should modern students refuse to learn concepts from Egypt, Babylon, India, China, and later Descartes and Galileo? It’s been useful since 700-1600 AD.
Economics uses curving lines to determine optimal markets. It can be used to determine area.
If you can imagine and use math to calculate a changing curve, you are more likely to understand that the world is complex. If you can juggle multiple variables, you don’t need an overly simplified world. And if your brain is flexible enough to understand math, you can understand more of the world. That’s classical education.
Economics uses curving lines to determine optimal markets. It can be used to determine area.
If you can imagine and use math to calculate a changing curve, you are more likely to understand that the world is complex. If you can juggle multiple variables, you don’t need an overly simplified world. And if your brain is flexible enough to understand math, you can understand more of the world. That’s classical education.
Last edited by Zarathud on Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
This (and Holman's This)
Last edited by Unagi on Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
I don't want to hear anyone complain about doing taxes until they have to fill out the FAFSA. Every server that houses that site should be set on fire. Fuck the coders. Fuck the designers. Fuck the king.
That sound of the spoon scraping over the can ribbing as you corral the last ravioli or two is the signal that a great treat is coming. It's the washboard solo in God's own
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
I had 4 years of this torture. My new torture is trying to get my mom signed up for Medicaid in Florida.EvilHomer3k wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:59 pm I don't want to hear anyone complain about doing taxes until they have to fill out the FAFSA. Every server that houses that site should be set on fire. Fuck the coders. Fuck the designers. Fuck the king.
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
That makes me think of my highschool English class and how we needed to read Brave New World... All the while, they really should have been teaching us how to sign up for Medicaid in Florida.WYBaugh wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 9:41 amI had 4 years of this torture. My new torture is trying to get my mom signed up for Medicaid in Florida.EvilHomer3k wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:59 pm I don't want to hear anyone complain about doing taxes until they have to fill out the FAFSA. Every server that houses that site should be set on fire. Fuck the coders. Fuck the designers. Fuck the king.
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
At the very least, between Geography and Social Studies they should have taught you not to move to Florida in the first place.
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
Just went through this process with my kid after putting it off for months because the site kept crashing when we tried to create an account.EvilHomer3k wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:59 pm I don't want to hear anyone complain about doing taxes until they have to fill out the FAFSA. Every server that houses that site should be set on fire. Fuck the coders. Fuck the designers. Fuck the king.
What an awful piece of garbage.
And it wasn't until nearly the end of the process when we learned it was going to base it on the 2021 tax year - the year my wife got a huge bonus that doubled our yearly income. I'm sure the kid is going to qualify for a ton of student aid if they think that's our normal income.
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
Good news! You get to do it again next year. I get to do it twice because I have two kids in college. One thing that I found was that for some reason it worked much better in Chrome than in Firefox. I had to wait minutes for it to load a page in Firefox and they loaded in under 30 seconds in Chrome. Still terrible response time but much better than firefox.Exodor wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:38 amJust went through this process with my kid after putting it off for months because the site kept crashing when we tried to create an account.EvilHomer3k wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:59 pm I don't want to hear anyone complain about doing taxes until they have to fill out the FAFSA. Every server that houses that site should be set on fire. Fuck the coders. Fuck the designers. Fuck the king.
What an awful piece of garbage.
And it wasn't until nearly the end of the process when we learned it was going to base it on the 2021 tax year - the year my wife got a huge bonus that doubled our yearly income. I'm sure the kid is going to qualify for a ton of student aid if they think that's our normal income.
That sound of the spoon scraping over the can ribbing as you corral the last ravioli or two is the signal that a great treat is coming. It's the washboard solo in God's own
bluegrass band of comfort food. - LawBeefaroni
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
Well....shit.
I was so annoyed with the process that by the end when I had to sign I had two options - create my own account or print out a sheet of paper, physically sign it and mail it in. I opted for the mail-in option because I couldn't face creating a account for myself (and I didn't want to risk it crashing and losing all our progress).
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
You can fill out the FAFSA for your not yet 18 year old kid. You can then have an email sent to them to create their own account. Then you can spend hours on the phone and the web site trying to figure out why the account you created using the email you told FAFSA having the SSN you used isn't recognized as a MFing account. You can then sign up for a new account using the same email and wait weeks for the confirmation never to get it. Then you can go back online and try doing it all over again always wonderying why the F it doesn't recognize the account. You can contact support and spend an hour trying to figure it out with them. Then you can resign yourself to creating a new account and filling everything out AGAIN. But, before you start you need your 4th MFing beer to deal with this. Only to find that the text used on the website is wrong and you are, in fact, not creating a new account but logging in to the account your created and the text just makes it look like it's a new account.Exodor wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:35 amWell....shit.
I was so annoyed with the process that by the end when I had to sign I had two options - create my own account or print out a sheet of paper, physically sign it and mail it in. I opted for the mail-in option because I couldn't face creating a account for myself (and I didn't want to risk it crashing and losing all our progress).
That sound of the spoon scraping over the can ribbing as you corral the last ravioli or two is the signal that a great treat is coming. It's the washboard solo in God's own
bluegrass band of comfort food. - LawBeefaroni
bluegrass band of comfort food. - LawBeefaroni
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
--------------------------------------------
I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.
I guess Ray Butts has ate his last pancake.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/daehawk
"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.
I guess Ray Butts has ate his last pancake.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/daehawk
"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
I had a computer with this form factor. I loved it, LOVED IT! Played many many hours City of Heroes on that thing.
The main fan in the back was tubular.
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
--------------------------------------------
I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.
I guess Ray Butts has ate his last pancake.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/daehawk
"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.
I guess Ray Butts has ate his last pancake.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/daehawk
"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
--------------------------------------------
I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.
I guess Ray Butts has ate his last pancake.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/daehawk
"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.
I guess Ray Butts has ate his last pancake.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/daehawk
"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
The plot of The Eternals explained.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
Call me Slap Thickneck
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
Smash Deadlift here.
Jaymann
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Slam Chunkhead
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Silly pics...what'cha got??....maybe NSFW
Buck McRunfast
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