[America] Domestic violent extremism

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malchior
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by malchior »

Thanks for posting complete disinformation. This was expected. I'll post something that UsulofDoom will likely ignore but instead hopefully benefit people who aren't drinking mind poison on a daily basis. You'll need to click through to see the supporting evidence such as images/posts but this is how fast disinfo spreads and fools the gullible.
By week’s end, a sizable percentage of the GOP base will believe an absurd conspiracy theory positing that Paul Pelosi was assaulted by his leftist gay lover.

...

The right’s conspiracy theorists went to work. They operate by putting existing facts – particularly ones from early in a story, when initial reports are often wrong – in new dubious contexts through wild logical jumps. In this case, they draw on two pieces of info.

An initial, subsequently retracted local news report that the assailant was in his underwear when police arrived.

And B) Pelosi was able to trick the invader, call 911 from the bathroom, and, while speaking to the dispatcher “in code” to avoid suspicion, the dispatcher said he referred to the home invader at one point in that call as a “friend.”

The right’s conspiracy theorists put those two pieces together, threw in some wild and baseless speculation, and came up with the theory that Pelosi was the victim of a gay lover’s quarrel.

That filtered up through low-level RW influencers to… the owner of this site, who is celebrated on the right and has now blasted to everywhere.

Meanwhile, the right has come up with nonsensical explanations for why the assailant’s internet footprint was a forgery and he’s actually a leftist. They cannot accept the reality without taking on responsibility. So they find an alternate explanation.

The right-wing press has spent decades building a huge audience for these sorts of convenient conspiracy theories. And their regular denunciations of the mainstream press built a bubble to keep out reality – only the right’s commentators can be trusted.
13. As for those trusted commentators – there are no powerful actors within that bubble who knock down those conspiracy theories. That’s how you end up with Fox hosts pushing QAnon talking points and scoffing at its extremism.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by Smoove_B »

But if we can't trust the NY Post, what hope is there?
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by malchior »

Smoove_B wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:38 pm But if we can't trust the NY Post, what hope is there?
Right!? Such a beacon of truth. On a serious note though it's crazy that we're at the point we can show you the magic trick ahead of time and the MSM is still ignoring the story (cautiously waiting on facts) while the disinfo is spreading like wildfire. We have no defense against this. So many of our fellow countrymen are idiots and it just works.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by LordMortis »

Smoove_B wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:38 pm But if we can't trust the NY Post, what hope is there?



The Enquirer? Or perhaps we just jump straight up the continuum to The Weekly World News?
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

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UsulofDoom wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:22 pm
DePape lived with a notorious local nudist in a Berkeley home, complete with a Black Lives Matter sign in the window and an LGBT rainbow flag, emblazoned with a marijuana symbol, hanging from a tree. A closer look reveals the characteristics of a homeless encampment, or what Europeans call “an open drug scene.” In the driveway, there is a broken-down camper van. On the street is a yellow school bus, which neighbors said DePape occasionally stayed in. Both are filled with garbage typical of such structures in homeless encampments. People come and go from the house and the vehicles, neighbors say, in part to partake in the use of a potent psychedelic drug, ibogaine.

Neighbors described DePape as a homeless addict with politics that was, until recently, left-wing, but of secondary importance to his psychotic and paranoid behavior.
https://nypost.com/2022/10/29/pelosi-at ... over-kids/
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by LawBeefaroni »

We're at a point in the American experiment where he has to be either a right wing extremist, goaded into violence by hateful GOP rhetoric or a gay drug addict rent boy, the product of permissive liberal weakness.

I mean if this happened and doesn't advance a particular political agenda, did it really happen?
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by malchior »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 1:09 pm We're at a point in the American experiment where he has to be either a right wing extremist, goaded into violence by hateful GOP rhetoric or a gay drug addict rent boy, the product of permissive liberal weakness.

I mean if this happened and doesn't advance a particular political agenda, did it really happen?
Also why not both!? Perhaps he was a right-wing extremist who went super deep cover into a leftist commune to get street cred while infiltrating the exclusive high-stakes world of leftist gay sex clubs. He could have been working that ass to get access to the Speaker's house any way he could. If you've seen his picture (from 10 years ago) it definitely screamed gay rent boy. Unfortunately for him it ultimately all fell apart when she missed her flight home in her natural old person brain fog. And he forgot that Paul didn't agree to hammer play! So close!
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by malchior »

malchior
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by malchior »

According to the criminal complaint that DOJ posted a little while ago it is now quite apparent it was a political attack. The NY Post stuff is unsurprisingly complete bullshit.

This seems to make it pretty clear what was going on. Sorry for weird formatting but it comes copy-pasta from the filing and I don't feel like fixing it. :)
DEPAPE stated that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and talk to her. If
Nancy were to tell DEPAPE the “truth,” he would let her go, and if she “lied,” he
was going to break “her kneecaps.” DEPAPE was certain that Nancy would not
have told the “truth.” In the course of the interview, DEPAPE articulated he
viewed Nancy as the “leader of the pack” of lies told by the Democratic Party.
DEPAPE also later explained that by breaking Nancy’s kneecaps, she would then
have to be wheeled into Congress, which would show other Members of Congress
there were consequences to actions. DEPAPE also explained generally that he
wanted to use Nancy to lure another individual to DEPAPE.

DEPAPE stated that he broke into the house through a glass door, which was a
difficult task that required the use of a hammer. DEPAPE stated that Pelosi was in
bed and appeared surprised by DEPAPE. DEPAPE told Pelosi to wake up.
DEPAPE told Pelosi that he was looking for Nancy. Pelosi responded that she
was not present. Pelosi asked how they could resolve the situation, and what DEPAPE
wanted to do. DEPAPE stated he wanted to tie Pelosi up so that
DEPAPE could go to sleep as he was tired from having had to carry a backpack to
the Pelosi residence. Around this time, according to DEPAPE, DEPAPE started
taking out twist ties from his pocket so that he could restrain Pelosi. Pelosi
moved towards another part of the house, but DEPAPE stopped him and together
they went back into the bedroom
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by malchior »

One more post because as usual I'm seeing another massive underreaction to the threat (out in the real world). I was glad to see someone clearly talk through it. It is the time now to respond to DANGEROUS misinformation with a message to kindly 'fuck off' and let them know we won't tolerate it any longer.

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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by LawBeefaroni »

"Twist ties"? Or zip ties?

I mean I wouldn't put it past this guy to bring twist ties but really seems like an error.



The problem with the NY Post and other similar stories is that anyone who prefers that reality will believe them over any subsequent correction. Truth is still putting on his pants, as they say.
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malchior
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by malchior »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 3:48 pm"Twist ties"? Or zip ties?
It's unclear if this was a mental slip on the agent's part or perhaps verbatim what was said in the interview. They talk about the SFPD recovering zip ties earlier in the document though.
LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 3:48 pmThe problem with the NY Post and other similar stories is that anyone who prefers that reality will believe them over any subsequent correction. Truth is still putting on his pants, as they say.
True that's why we need people just dishing straight facts in near real-time as possible to compete with the misinformation. I'm just glad we're seeing some voices out there starting to bang on the alarm bell. We have to hope it catches on and that it isn't too late.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

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malchior wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 3:52 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 3:48 pm"Twist ties"? Or zip ties?
It's unclear if this was a mental slip on the agent's part or perhaps verbatim what was said in the interview. They talk about the SFPD recovering zip ties earlier in the document though.
LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 3:48 pmThe problem with the NY Post and other similar stories is that anyone who prefers that reality will believe them over any subsequent correction. Truth is still putting on his pants, as they say.
True that's why we need people just dishing straight facts in near real-time as possible to compete with the misinformation. I'm just glad we're seeing some voices out there starting to bang on the alarm bell. We have to hope it catches on and that it isn't too late.
I find it difficult to believe that I'm more pessimistic than you are about something, but do really think it's not already too late? If people are too stupid or just don't care enough to differentiate between the obvious lies and the truth, what alarm bell are you proposing we bang on?

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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by Holman »

Don Jr keeping it classy.

Spoiler:
In case it gets deleted, what matters is that Don Jr tweeted a picture of underpants and a hammer with the caption "Got my Paul Pelosi Halloween costume ready."
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by Zarathud »

Does this mean Jr will give you the hammer to hit him in the kneecaps at the party?

Or is he hoping for someone dressed up as Pelosi to bend him over and spank him? Maybe with Daddy’s TIME Magazine cover.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by Alefroth »

I wonder what would happen if Hunter Tweeted something this reprehensible.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

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Like father, like son. Top to bottom.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by malchior »

The new story line is he is an illegal immigrant. Any story anything at all to avoid taking responsibility for the violence they are stoking.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

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Let me know when he's a Muslim Ukranian from Mexico. It shouldn't take long.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

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Judge sentences man to life in prison for Waukesha Christmas parade attack
A judge sentenced a man who killed six people and injured many others when he drove his SUV through a Christmas parade in suburban Milwaukee to life in prison with no chance of release Wednesday, rejecting arguments from him and his family that mental illness drove him to do it.
...
The gallery applauded as Dorow announced the life sentences. Moments later she sentenced him to 762 years in prison on the endangerment counts.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

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2 men arrested, 1 with Nazi arm-band, accused of making threats to attack New York synagogue, NYPD says

New York Police Commissioner Keechant Sewell announced the arrests in a statement Saturday. Investigators from the FBI/NYPD Joint Terrorism Task Force and the NYPD Counterterrorism and Intelligence Bureau, in collaboration with law enforcement partners, uncovered what she called “a developing threat to the Jewish community” on Friday.

Authorities “moved swiftly to gather information, identify those behind it, and operationally neutralize their ability to do harm,’ Sewell said.

Christopher Brown, 21, from Aquebogue, New York, is being charged with making a terroristic threat, aggravated harassment, and criminal possession of a weapon. Matthew Mahrer, 22, of Manhattan, is facing a single charge of criminal possession of a weapon, a NYPD spokeswoman said.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by Smoove_B »

Everything is fine.

A massive convergence of right wing militants in Columbus, some armed, just shut down a drag holiday event. Organizers expected police to show, unsurprisingly, they did not.

Or they did dressed in black/yellow.

Proud Boys and Patriot Front are emboldened after Club Q.
At least they're engaging in reasonable COVID-19 protections, unless...
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by Holman »

More presumably anti-drag violence:



(thread)
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by Smoove_B »

NYT article:
The outages across Moore County, roughly 90 miles east of Charlotte, began just after 7 p.m. on Saturday, the Moore County Sheriff’s Office said. Officials said the power could be out until as late as Thursday.
That sounds...not good.
At a news conference on Sunday, the Moore County sheriff, Ronnie Fields, said that the attack appeared targeted, but did not provide further details on a motive or suspect. The Federal Bureau of Investigation and the North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation were also looking into the attack, he said.

The county declared a state of emergency on Sunday afternoon, including a curfew starting at 9 p.m. on Sunday lasting to 5 a.m. on Monday It was not clear if the curfew would be extended. State Senator Tom McInnis cited below-freezing temperatures and dark roads for the need for the curfew.

“It is going to be very, very, very dark, and it’s going to be chilly tonight,” he said at the news conference. “And we don’t need to have anyone out on the streets — that is the reason for our curfew this evening.”

The senator said the gunfire that damaged the electrical equipment was a “terrible act, and it appears to be intentional, willful and malicious.”
Given how successful this apparently was, I can't imagine it'll be the last time - assuming it was intentional.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by malchior »

Yeah this is a pretty big deal. I am scheduled to be briefing a power company's CEO about the results of a cybersecurity assessment of the firm this afternoon. I have appended and prepared information on this today but the material we already have received from the FBI indicates this does appear to be targeted and intentional since two substations were impacted. What we still don't have word on outside the investigation is when the two incidents happened. If they were simultaneous...that's really not good. If it was some disgruntled employee who knew what he was doing and did it individually that'd be a heck of a lot better.

In any case, isn't the first time someone has tried to attack a substation this way. About 10 years ago someone took shots at a substation in California but there was no service impact. To be clear, they are almost certainly unrelated but I raise because this has been something the power industry has thought about for some time. However, it was seen as a less likely risk and lots of attention instead was put on cyber and perimeter security for substations. Part of the calculus there is that there isn't much you can do for ballistic attacks.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

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Holman wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:12 pm More presumably anti-drag violence:



(thread)
If we had Keifer on the job this could be wrapped up in 24 hours. And whatever shakes out and no matter what others think, in my eyes that's an act of terrorism and should be treated such a level of seriousness and urgency and prosecution.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Don't fuck with Duke Energy. They'll put all their backing behind full prosecution.

malchior wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:45 am
In any case, isn't the first time someone has tried to attack a substation this way. About 10 years ago someone took shots at a substation in California but there was no service impact.
If you mean the 2013 sniper in San Jose, that took out almost 20 large transformers and did have some minor outages. And $15M in damage.
Seventeen transformers were seriously damaged, requiring over $15 million worth of repairs. To avert a black-out, energy grid officials were forced to reroute power from nearby Silicon Valley-based power plants. While some nearby neighborhoods temporarily lost power, “the big users weren’t even aware Metcalf had happened”, according to an expert from the Electric Power Research Institute.
Smoove_B wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:03 pm Given how successful this apparently was, I can't imagine it'll be the last time - assuming it was intentional.
Wait until they figure out what they can do with just some copper wire and a rock.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by stessier »

Or something like a novelty chaff air cannon.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by malchior »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:06 pm Don't fuck with Duke Energy. They'll put all their backing behind full prosecution.

malchior wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:45 am
In any case, isn't the first time someone has tried to attack a substation this way. About 10 years ago someone took shots at a substation in California but there was no service impact.
If you mean the 2013 sniper in San Jose, that took out almost 20 large transformers and did have some minor outages. And $15M in damage.
Seventeen transformers were seriously damaged, requiring over $15 million worth of repairs. To avert a black-out, energy grid officials were forced to reroute power from nearby Silicon Valley-based power plants. While some nearby neighborhoods temporarily lost power, “the big users weren’t even aware Metcalf had happened”, according to an expert from the Electric Power Research Institute.
Sorry I should be absolutely clear - there was no extended service impact to the 'Bulk Electric System'. The service impacts they are referring to were de-energizing of a few local substations for inspections to ensure they were safe to operate.

Eventually FERC/NERC issued guidance a few years later that didn't really address the 'attack vector (e.g., shooting at it). The Wikipedia does refresh my memory because it led to stronger guidance (and more audit scrutiny) from FERC to ensure communications have physical circuit and path redundancy. That led to me doing a neat project to shoot a laser from an extended DS3 circuit over a desert with some "intercept proof" microwave comms gear designed for casinos. :)

I'm fairly confident because I was directly involved in some of the after action on that but I might be memory glitching on some of it!
But we never got guidance to "bullet proof" the facility for instance. Mostly because that's impossible.
Smoove_B wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:03 pm Given how successful this apparently was, I can't imagine it'll be the last time - assuming it was intentional.
Wait until they figure out what they can do with just some copper wire and a rock.
True but the plentiful amounts of bullets are enough. With a large enough caliber there are several components at nearly every power facility that are a bad combo of vulnerable to impact shock and hard and expensive to replace on short notice. I expect we're going to see rate hits as transmission operators get guidance to increase stock on replacement parts.
Last edited by malchior on Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

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malchior wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:45 am Part of the calculus there is that there isn't much you can do for ballistic attacks.
Concrete walls?
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by malchior »

Blackhawk wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:26 pm
malchior wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:45 am Part of the calculus there is that there isn't much you can do for ballistic attacks.
Concrete walls?
6 wall enclosures for every substation is probably cost prohibitive. Some are enclosed but then you just move the problem to the transmission towers. I can take a photo out my back window of a part that costs 4-5 figures on every tower (actually more accurately many dozens along any length of wire) along a right of way behind my house. The moral is if you want to take the power grid down you can do it. It's really a matter of how long, how expensive, and how big the outage will be.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by $iljanus »

If only the good substations had guns to protect themselves from the bad guys. Thoughts and prayers! ;)
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by Blackhawk »

Interesting, thanks. I'm guessing, then, that the only way to really protect them would be a complete redesign that would cost gazillions to actually implement across the country.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by Alefroth »

Or we could have armed volunteer veterans patrol the power grid.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by malchior »

Blackhawk wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:38 pm Interesting, thanks. I'm guessing, then, that the only way to really protect them would be a complete redesign that would cost gazillions to actually implement across the country.
Sort of. You could imagine burying all the transmission lines. I won't guess at the cost but then you are trading one problem for others. There is no 'near zero risk' solution at any cost. The more logical thing is to increase redundancy and ability to respond. The good thing is most systems are bulking up redundancy just because of climate change future expected demand and also EVs.

Example - PSEG plan 'last mile' upgrades (aka Public Service which covers a good chunk of NJ). My neighborhood was upgraded last winter. We were starting to have regular outages even though the substation is a 5-minute walk from my house. I had a good conversation with the foreman at the time since they dug a 4x4' hole in my front yard to get at conduit and pull new wire. He had high confidence we wouldn't see a local outage for a "long time" (all the stuff in my hood is buried and it now has automatic dual switched pathing to the substation).

My local substation was also upgraded to cross-connect it to another 2 substations. They made huge investments here to make sure the grid was far more reliable to single point of failure outages.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by Unagi »

Could they maybe install massive tesla towers that shoot out enormous bolts of electricity at anyone that approaches?
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by Smoove_B »

Unagi wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 3:33 pm Could they maybe install massive tesla towers that shoot out enormous bolts of electricity at anyone that approaches?
That's a good idea. I was thinking hunter/killer robots that would turn anyone armed into a chunky mist, but I think yours has more potential.

But seriously, this should be a real warning that the power grid is a viable soft target with potential to cause large-scale disruption. Anything that happens now is on us for not addressing it. Given what people still need to do at airports, it's insane that nothing has seemingly been done in the ~15+ years that this has been identified as being problematic.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by malchior »

Smoove_B wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 3:57 pmGiven what people still need to do at airports, it's insane that nothing has seemingly been done in the ~15+ years that this has been identified as being problematic.
FWIW a lot has been done. It's just not something you can stop and a factor here I expect is that it is rural. Rural power delivery has all sorts of issues everywhere that intersects age of equipment, population density, etc. that makes incidents there different. I think they said 2 substations directly attacked and a third damaged (perhaps damaged downstream from the 2 failed substations) and the area was 700 square miles. That's what 2 or 3 times the size of Chicago served by a handful of substations? That's very low density. The substation near me serves ~150-200K people in a ~50 square mile area.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Smoove_B wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 3:57 pm
Unagi wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 3:33 pm Could they maybe install massive tesla towers that shoot out enormous bolts of electricity at anyone that approaches?
That's a good idea. I was thinking hunter/killer robots that would turn anyone armed into a chunky mist, but I think yours has more potential.

But seriously, this should be a real warning that the power grid is a viable soft target with potential to cause large-scale disruption. Anything that happens now is on us for not addressing it. Given what people still need to do at airports, it's insane that nothing has seemingly been done in the ~15+ years that this has been identified as being problematic.
At airports you have to physically pass through and can therefore be checked. Good luck screening everyone within a rifle's shot of every power substation in the US.
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Re: [America] Domestic violent extremism

Post by $iljanus »

I wonder if a bunch of guys were watching Oceans Eleven and decided to take a more blunt force solution to taking out the power grid before engaging in their meticulously planned heist of their local Piggly Wiggly?
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