Go Bernie!

[LawBeefaroni]

Is there a name for rich democrats that are on board with everything the (D) party is for unless it includes restructuring taxes in a way that impacts them? Is he really saying Trump should be praised over the economy - that he's not all bad? That having children at the border in cages is ok because his 401Ks is doing great? Maybe Bernie really is the candidate we deserve, in reaction to a-holes like this.

Blankfein isn't just a "rich Democrat.". He is a billion plus net worth former Goldman Sachs CEO and current senior chairman. Money is nearly everything to guys like this.

[Dogstar]

Ah, that welcome time of the election cycle where Congressional candidates have to start distancing themselves from the probable nominee.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

[malchior]

Is there a name for rich democrats that are on board with everything the (D) party is for unless it includes restructuring taxes in a way that impacts them? Is he really saying Trump should be praised over the economy - that he's not all bad? That having children at the border in cages is ok because his 401Ks is doing great? Maybe Bernie really is the candidate we deserve, in reaction to a-holes like this.

The original article talks about how he fears being misquoted since the 'Gods work's debacle during the financial crisis. Well let's say his actual quotes are pretty bad.

Everything is ok as long as he keeps the money he made by double dealing and legally ripping people off? I get that he thinks that it is unfair to group all the plutocrats together but...every time they speak...we see glimpses that show maybe they really are as bad as we think they are.

[Grifman]

Working for a hospital, I'm more sympathetic to people not wanting to release their medical records. Medical information is one of the most protected, private pieces of data an individual has. There's a reason we have HIPAA laws and regulations that can cost hospitals millions if they are violated.

As valuable as I think the information is, I think Bernie has every right not to release it.

Then he doesn’t need to run for President. The American people deserve to see the health records and tax returns of those that want their votes. He’s obviously hiding something, as is Trump.

[GungHo]

Is there a name for rich democrats that are on board with everything the (D) party is for unless it includes restructuring taxes in a way that impacts them? Is he really saying Trump should be praised over the economy - that he's not all bad? That having children at the border in cages is ok because his 401Ks is doing great? Maybe Bernie really is the candidate we deserve, in reaction to a-holes like this.

Independents probably. I get what you're saying but it's those ppl(Independents, whatever their reason for identifying as such) bernie has to win over. Hopefully he pivots to start doing that soon.

For me it's not so much that I'm deadset against his policies; I'd be a lot more comfortable with some of them if he, ya know, had a plan for how to pay for everything, but I just don't think he can win. Whatever the polls say is irrelevant; the last election showed us that. When ppl get behind the curtain, alone, they'll vote against a self -proclaimed socialist. That's the reality of America

[Grifman]

Bernie will lose House for Democrats. Every left candidate that ran for the House last time in red districts lost big. It was the Democrat centrists/moderates that won in those districts and gave them the House. They are going to have a very hard time running for re-election with Bernie at the top of the ticket.

[Kraken]

He won't be able to beat Trump if the D establishment spends the next three months conniving against him. If Bernie comes out of Super Tuesday as the clear favorite, I hope that those who've been hand-wringing about unity will unify behind the guy who's getting the most votes. If he takes a comfortable plurality into the convention, Democrats will damage their party by taking away the nomination.

We aren't there yet, but 10 days from now we might very well be.

[Grifman]

I can see the ads now. Bernie has made a number of sympathic comments and even comments of praise for foreign leftist strongmen. You’re going to see those comments replayed again and again. You are going to hear “Socialism” over and over again. Health care had been a winning issue for dems, but you will hear how Bernie wants to take away your health insurance and give you “socialized” medicine. I hope I am wrong but I am afraid he is going to be another George McGovern.

[Dogstar]

He won't be able to beat Trump if the D establishment spends the next three months conniving against him. If Bernie comes out of Super Tuesday as the clear favorite, I hope that those who've been hand-wringing about unity will unify behind the guy who's getting the most votes. If he takes a comfortable plurality into the convention, Democrats will damage their party by taking away the nomination.

We aren't there yet, but 10 days from now we might very well be.

A plurality isn't the majority. At some point, the party has to weigh the factors of Sanders's actual chances and his impact on House and Senate races versus potentially killing voting enthusiasm by nominating someone else. The nightmare scenario for the party is that they lose all three. I can hardly blame them if they choose someone else to avoid that happening (to be fair, the Democrats seemingly haven't always been the best at figuring out winning recipes).

[Defiant]

Yeah, the rules require a majority of the delegates, not just a plurality. Although I wish we were under the old convention rules that required a two-thirds majority. That would require a candidate that was acceptable (if not the first choice) to the vast majority of the party.

[Holman]

I'm losing hope. I think we're fucked.

I know there's a chance Bernie could win the general election, but he will have to do it as a uniter, not a divider, and hasn't shown any talent in that area.

I'm taking a small amount of comfort from discussions like this one from Matthew Yglesias at Vox: Mainstream Democrats shouldn’t fear Bernie Sanders.

The key seems that Bernie needs to stop running as a "Socialist" and start running as an "FDR New Deal Democrat." There's no functional difference between the two, but one has pro-American connotations and the other doesn't, especially given Bernie's horrid record on foreign governments.

Every time a Berner says the word "Revolution," Dems lose 1,000 voters.

[Smoove_B]

I'm not really looped into the Bernie campaign (or any campaign really), but my sense from what I see being shared/promoted on social media is that there's a plea of sorts being made to non-Bernie Democrats. More specifically, the plea is that Bernie supporters have been supporting non-Bernie candidates for some time now, so now it is time for non-Bernie supporters to rally behind him. It's...making me uncomfortable.

I absolutely agree the tone needs to change. To me (right or wrong), Bernie is coming across very much as a burn it all down candidate and I'm not sure if that's quite the message the average voter needs to hear in order to be inspired to vote for him. I get the anger, I get his whole persona, but I fear that core message is going to alienate the very people that are needed to overwhelmingly elect a (D) candidate into office.

I did see some concerns that nominating Bernie will be a problem for House candidates in NJ, which I guess is an issue. But if you're asking me to choose four more years of Trump so you can maintain a seat in the House? No.

[Blackhawk]

I also worry that President Bernie and his followers are going to Trump the Trumpsters. "They did it to us, now we're going to do it to them." Which will just lead to Trump 2.0 in 2024, and Bernie 2.0 in 2028, rubber-banding back and forth, increasing division within the country, and constantly neutralizing any and all policies every time an administration changes, achieving nothing but anger. We'll somehow achieve chaotic stagnation.

[Dogstar]

Triggercut posted this over in QT3, and I think it's the most apt summary of why I have a hard time supporting Sanders vs. the other Democrats (minus Bloomberg): Sanders and Trump are all about the politics of grievance as opposed to the politics of governance.

[Smoove_B]

Thank you. That's what I've been trying to verbalize but haven't been able to put concisely. It's exactly correct.

EDIT: When I hear Warren speak (in contrast) and she's hammering on accountability, to me that's a core element of governance.

[Skinypupy]

Triggercut posted this over in QT3, and I think it's the most apt summary of why I have a hard time supporting Sanders vs. the other Democrats (minus Bloomberg): Sanders and Trump are all about the politics of grievance as opposed to the politics of governance.

So true. It’s one of the reasons I’ve had a really hard time getting behind Bernie, tbh.

I’d still vote for him over Trump, but certainly not enthusiastically.

[Grifman]

I did see some concerns that nominating Bernie will be a problem for House candidates in NJ, which I guess is an issue. But if you're asking me to choose four more years of Trump so you can maintain a seat in the House? No.

I'm concerned about losing the presidency AND the House. Then we are truly screwed.

[Zarathud]

Bernie is the Bizzaro Trump.

[gameoverman]

I'm not really looped into the Bernie campaign (or any campaign really), but my sense from what I see being shared/promoted on social media is that there's a plea of sorts being made to non-Bernie Democrats. More specifically, the plea is that Bernie supporters have been supporting non-Bernie candidates for some time now, so now it is time for non-Bernie supporters to rally behind him. It's...making me uncomfortable.

If that's their message then it's not a good one. 'Rally behind the leader no matter what' leads to problems. I'd flip it back to the Sanders people. Okay, you've got him this far. Let's say he's the Democrats' nominee. Now the Sanders people need to deliver on their end, which is bringing out all the young voters who so often skip out on elections. It doesn't matter who 'supports' who during the process. All the competition for the nomination is for nothing if the nominee can't bring out the voters for the election.

[Grifman]

I think the real issue here is whether Bernie is another "Trump" from a primary perspective. Trump did not get a majority of the Republican primary votes early on, but he did have a large plurality due to the large number of candidates. Eventually, support coalesced around him rather around any of the remaining candidates. The question is can Bernie do this, or does he have a hard cap on his support of 35% or so. If he keeps getting in the 40's like in Nevada he'll be hard to beat, but if he stays in the mid 30's, then there is more of an argument to be made that most Democrats prefer someone else - whoever that might be.

I will say that if he wins the nomination but loses to Trump, the "progressive" agenda will be dead for a long time. It will be clear that the voters are not that far too the left, and if they can't get a majority of the vote running against someone like Trump (who will give them every reason to vote left, even if they don't really want to), it will be a long time before that agenda can rear it's head again. The Democrats will have to decide if they want to tack center and win elections, or stay far left and be irrelevant. That's assuming Trump doesn't destroy what remains of our republican and democratic system.

[Holman]

I've been trying my best to separate Bernie from his most prominent social-media (especially Twitter) followers in my mind, and there is a distinction. I just wish the candidate himself would draw it more clearly.

For example: it wasn't online aggressive/combative Bernie Bros who gave Sanders his huge win in Nevada. It was a broader coalition of working people, Latinos, and college-educated whites. If that sounds like the Democratic party (though here lacking large numbers of black voters simply for Nevada demographic reasons), well, here we are.

[LawBeefaroni]

I also worry that President Bernie and his followers are going to Trump the Trumpsters. "They did it to us, now we're going to do it to them." Which will just lead to Trump 2.0 in 2024, and Bernie 2.0 in 2028, rubber-banding back and forth, increasing division within the country, and constantly neutralizing any and all policies every time an administration changes, achieving nothing but anger. We'll somehow achieve chaotic stagnation.

There is zero path to healing and reconciliation. No Dem candidates have articulated a plan and the GOP would rather destroy the country than heal it.

This is a problem but at the moment it is a seconday one. It will be a primary one after November regardless of the outcome.

[Drazzil]

GO BERNIE!!

[Drazzil]

I also worry that President Bernie and his followers are going to Trump the Trumpsters. "They did it to us, now we're going to do it to them." Which will just lead to Trump 2.0 in 2024, and Bernie 2.0 in 2028, rubber-banding back and forth, increasing division within the country, and constantly neutralizing any and all policies every time an administration changes, achieving nothing but anger. We'll somehow achieve chaotic stagnation.

Written in 2010 but still pernicient today.

https://www.salon.com/2010/08/31/lind_c ... m_america/

[Drazzil]

I also worry that President Bernie and his followers are going to Trump the Trumpsters. "They did it to us, now we're going to do it to them." Which will just lead to Trump 2.0 in 2024, and Bernie 2.0 in 2028, rubber-banding back and forth, increasing division within the country, and constantly neutralizing any and all policies every time an administration changes, achieving nothing but anger. We'll somehow achieve chaotic stagnation.

There is zero path to healing and reconciliation. No Dem candidates have articulated a plan and the GOP would rather destroy the country than heal it.

This is a problem but at the moment it is a seconday one. It will be a primary one after November regardless of the outcome.

I'm less concerned with "healing" then justice at this point. If scum goes unpunished, they are still scum. Barack Obama tried to be the "unity" president and look where it got him. He appeased his way to be a do nothing president. Healing doesent work. It didn't work in South Africa, didn't work with Obama and wont work here.

[Holman]

I'm less concerned with "healing" then justice at this point. If scum goes unpunished, they are still scum. Barack Obama tried to be the "unity" president and look where it got him. He appeased his way to be a do nothing president. Healing doesent work. It didn't work in South Africa, didn't work with Obama and wont work here.

Um, it did work in South Africa. The Truth and Reconciliation Commissions are how they came out of Apartheid without a backlash bloodbath and civil war. This is the only thing that has made justice possible.

Draz, you're prone to extremes, and you need to curtail that shit. Extremes thwart progress, and at their worst they get a whole lot of people killed and then provoke an opposite reaction anyway.

[Freyland]

Plus he did a great job of supporting that "governance vs grievance" quote.

[Smoove_B]

Officially endorsed by Marianne Williamson



Can't copy text, it's a star-crystal JPG with her quote. I'll work on re-hosting.

EDIT:

What happened in Nevada on Saturday was extraordinary, and the energy is unquestionably with Bernie. A 40-year old trend of capitalism without conscience – corporate elites and their errand boys in government – have created the inevitable blowback in the form of a political revolution. That revolution is one that Bernie Sanders now leads, and I want to do everything I can to further its success. I am honored to endorse him. – Marianne Williamson

Big ups to my HS typing teacher. Still delivering the goods after 28+ years

[pr0ner]

Oy.

In “60 Minutes” interview, Sanders goes out of his way praise elements of Castro’s reign of Cuba.

“We’re very opposed to the authoritarian nature of Cuba but it’s unfair to say everything’s bad. When Castro came into office you know what he did? He had a literacy program.”

[Drazzil]

I'm less concerned with "healing" then justice at this point. If scum goes unpunished, they are still scum. Barack Obama tried to be the "unity" president and look where it got him. He appeased his way to be a do nothing president. Healing doesent work. It didn't work in South Africa, didn't work with Obama and wont work here.

Um, it did work in South Africa. The Truth and Reconciliation Commissions are how they came out of Apartheid without a backlash bloodbath and civil war. This is the only thing that has made justice possible.

Draz, you're prone to extremes, and you need to curtail that shit. Extremes thwart progress, and at their worst they get a whole lot of people killed and then provoke an opposite reaction anyway.

It didn't work in South Africa. The blacks are still an underclass. The whites still own everything. Now things are even worse because the systemic problems are worse. Violence is an every day thing.

[Dogstar]

Oy.

In “60 Minutes” interview, Sanders goes out of his way praise elements of Castro’s reign of Cuba.

“We’re very opposed to the authoritarian nature of Cuba but it’s unfair to say everything’s bad. When Castro came into office you know what he did? He had a literacy program.”

While I can appreciate the distinction Bernie is trying to make and that he's being honest about he feels, it makes it that much harder to win Florida and to win Congressional districts in Florida. It reminds me of his answer of fracking in terms of Pennsylvania -- he's honest but it makes it harder for him to win. It doesn't matter if the Democrats run up the score in blue states -- they need to win the swing states. Do we really need to raise the degree of difficulty?

[Grifman]

Oy.

In “60 Minutes” interview, Sanders goes out of his way praise elements of Castro’s reign of Cuba.

“We’re very opposed to the authoritarian nature of Cuba but it’s unfair to say everything’s bad. When Castro came into office you know what he did? He had a literacy program.”

Of course, nowhere in the world is everything bad. But that's not the point. Yes, they have a literacy rate of 99% but I've been to Cuba (and am going again next month) and the place is just crap once you get out of the few blocks of the tourist area in Havana. Everybody is poor there, not matter how literate they are. Housing and infrastructure are crumbling, outside the city people are riding horses, using horse drawn buggies or walking. There are virtually no cars in the countryside. The main east/west highway is almost deserted and there are bridges going over it with no roads connected to the bridges. Heck, you can't even find a toilet seat in the country (most toilets there don't have seats, I have no idea why - we spent 4 hours one afternoon driving a Cuban friend around looking for one because we had a car). The place is a waste of human potential because the system is so crappy.

See, it's stuff like this that takes the pressure off of Trump. If Bernie can praise left wing dictators then why can't Trump praise Putin, Erdogan, Sisi and Kim Il Jong? How can I point out to friends Trump doing this when they can just say Sanders says the same thing about leftist dictators?

[Grifman]

I'm less concerned with "healing" then justice at this point. If scum goes unpunished, they are still scum. Barack Obama tried to be the "unity" president and look where it got him. He appeased his way to be a do nothing president. Healing doesent work. It didn't work in South Africa, didn't work with Obama and wont work here.

Um, it did work in South Africa. The Truth and Reconciliation Commissions are how they came out of Apartheid without a backlash bloodbath and civil war. This is the only thing that has made justice possible.

Draz, you're prone to extremes, and you need to curtail that shit. Extremes thwart progress, and at their worst they get a whole lot of people killed and then provoke an opposite reaction anyway.

It didn't work in South Africa. The blacks are still an underclass. The whites still own everything. Now things are even worse because the systemic problems are worse. Violence is an every day thing.

Read again what he said what the result of the commission was. The purpose of the commission wasn't to solve SA's inequality problems.

[Kraken]

How well do you know Bernie?

[Daehawk]

So could we see a Bernie and Warren ticket or maybe a Bernie and Butti...buttei...Buttygiggy ticket?

[Drazzil]

I'm less concerned with "healing" then justice at this point. If scum goes unpunished, they are still scum. Barack Obama tried to be the "unity" president and look where it got him. He appeased his way to be a do nothing president. Healing doesent work. It didn't work in South Africa, didn't work with Obama and wont work here.

Um, it did work in South Africa. The Truth and Reconciliation Commissions are how they came out of Apartheid without a backlash bloodbath and civil war. This is the only thing that has made justice possible.

Draz, you're prone to extremes, and you need to curtail that shit. Extremes thwart progress, and at their worst they get a whole lot of people killed and then provoke an opposite reaction anyway.

It didn't work in South Africa. The blacks are still an underclass. The whites still own everything. Now things are even worse because the systemic problems are worse. Violence is an every day thing.

Read again what he said what the result of the commission was. The purpose of the commission wasn't to solve SA's inequality problems.

All problems spring from inequality. All of them. Without equality ( or a fair sembelence of it), then you dont have a country.

This is the last I will speak of this here. I will not change your mind, you will not change my mind. I thank god I'm not the one in power. Sorry to drag off topic.

[Zarathud]

There are many more problems than inequality. You have no right to the same resources as someone who works harder. There may be minimum human rights, and abuses by those who just think they work hard because they have money. But Americans are likely to reject Bernie’s “something for nothing” politics. Especially in swing states.

There’s no way Bernie wins Ohio.

[LawBeefaroni]

I also worry that President Bernie and his followers are going to Trump the Trumpsters. "They did it to us, now we're going to do it to them." Which will just lead to Trump 2.0 in 2024, and Bernie 2.0 in 2028, rubber-banding back and forth, increasing division within the country, and constantly neutralizing any and all policies every time an administration changes, achieving nothing but anger. We'll somehow achieve chaotic stagnation.

There is zero path to healing and reconciliation. No Dem candidates have articulated a plan and the GOP would rather destroy the country than heal it.

This is a problem but at the moment it is a seconday one. It will be a primary one after November regardless of the outcome.

I'm less concerned with "healing" then justice at this point. If scum goes unpunished, they are still scum. Barack Obama tried to be the "unity" president and look where it got him. He appeased his way to be a do nothing president. Healing doesent work. It didn't work in South Africa, didn't work with Obama and wont work here.

You can't expect total justice. That is incredibly naive. If anyone promises you justice they are either lying or equally naive.

Besides, if Lincoln felt the way you do, we'd probably be on our 4th civil war by now.

[Scraper]

There are many more problems than inequality. You have no right to the same resources as someone who works harder. There may be minimum human rights, and abuses by those who just think they work hard because they have money. But Americans are likely to reject Bernie’s “something for nothing” politics. Especially in swing states.

There’s no way Bernie wins Ohio.

I agree. As someone who lives in Ohio and is involved in politics I can tell you there is no way in hell Bernie beats Trump in Ohio. He might beat him in Columbus and Cleveland. But that is literally it. Everywhere else it would be a blowout for Trump.

The only two candidates who have a shot to beat him in Ohio are Biden and Bloomberg. I suspect this is true for Pennsylvania and West Virginia as well.

[Kurth]

Or Pennsylvania. No frackin’ way.