will marijuana ever be legal???

[Kraken]

That's prudent for the time being, but federal legalization is inevitable here, too. They just de-scheduled hemp. Baby steps. I am 80% sure that legalization will be part of the Democratic platform in '20...there's no surer way to get young people to the polls.

[Moliere]

Ioan Grillo is journalist who has spent the last 18 years reporting on the drug war in Mexico. His books "El Narco: Inside Mexico's Criminal Insurgency" and "Gangster Warlords" are available now.

A depressing interview where a British journalist discusses his time reporting on the drug cartels in Mexico. 'Merica!

GreenGoo, I know you don't like Rogan. You don't need to repeat it again. I'm still going to post interviews I found interesting. Joe's on a roll recently:

David Lee Roth
Alex Jones
Dr Phil

[Jaymann]

I got through about 20 minutes of Alex Jones. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, but found a big stinking pile of nope. No interest in DLR or Phil (I don't think he's a doctor of anything).

[Moliere]

I got through about 20 minutes of Alex Jones. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, but found a big stinking pile of nope. No interest in DLR or Phil (I don't think he's a doctor of anything).

I listen to these at 1.5 speed in the background while gaming so it's easier to get through long podcasts. The Alex Jones interview was frustrating because Rogan gave up trying to hold Jones accountable to rattling off 10 things in rapid fire before jumping to another 10 topics. Russell Brand talks the same way thinking fast = intelligent. With Jones it would require someone to tell him to shut up as we dissect these 10 "facts" he just said.

That being said, the Ioan Grillo interview is a must listen for anyone interested in the Mexican drug cartels.

[Isgrimnur]

Vox

Hawaii on Tuesday decriminalized marijuana, making it the 26th state to decriminalize or legalize the drug.

The new law removes the possibility of jail time as a penalty for up to three grams of marijuana, but maintains a $130 fine. Hawaii’s Democrat-controlled legislature approved the bill and sent it to Democratic Gov. David Ige in May. Ige didn’t sign it, but he also didn’t veto it, effectively letting it become law on Tuesday. The new law will take effect on January 11, 2020.
...

[Isgrimnur]

New York

Gov. Andrew Cuomo signed legislation Monday decriminalizing marijuana use in the state of New York.

The law reduces unlawful possession of marijuana to a violation punishable by a fine.

Additionally, it also creates a process for individuals convicted of certain marijuana offenses to have their records expunged.
...
The bill will take effect 30 days after becoming law.

Lawmakers in New York state voted last month to eliminate criminal penalties for public possession and use of marijuana after efforts to legalize pot stalled.

[Kraken]

I made my first legal purchase a couple of weeks ago, in the Berkshires. There are still no pot shops convenient to me, but there are five along the Rte 7 spine in Berkshire County, so it was just a matter of deciding which one's menu looked the best while I was out there anyway for a long weekend. I mention this because the Berkshires abut the NY state line, and I saw a LOT of NY license plates in the parking lot.

Due to high prices and poor access in the most populous part of the state, the weed industry in MA isn't delivering the taxes they were expecting -- it's still easier and cheaper to buy black market (or grow one's own). On the plus side, the shops that are open are doing brisk business and a lot of the tax dollars they are pulling in are from out of state.

[Biyobi]

What were their rates? Dispensaries here are typically $30-$60 for an eighth, though one of the better ones near me has half-priced Tuesdays.

[Kraken]

What were their rates? Dispensaries here are typically $30-$60 for an eighth, though one of the better ones near me has half-priced Tuesdays.

1/8 = $45
1/4 = $85
1/2 = $165
1 oz = $300

...plus 20% tax. If you have a medical card, skip the tax and go to the front of the line.

There is no price competition here...yet.

[Pyperkub]

So where does that put Mike Tyson?

"What do we smoke a month?" Tyson asked his co-host, Eben Britton. He added, per The Source, "It's about $40,000 a month."

"We smoke ten tons of weed on the ranch a month," Britton said.

[Daehawk]

Im not sure how those prices compare to the mid 80s as a teenager getting pot. I 'think' back then a quarter bag was $25 and a half bag was $50. been so damn long. A joint is less than a gram if I recall and joints were like $5. $7 if laced with Valium.

I still remember staying at one of my friends house on a Friday night in high school because we were going on a church bus trip to Atlanta Six Flags Sat morn. His dad came home from work around 4pm and tossed us a half bag and said dont smoke it all tonight. Man what a fun weekend that was. Sat on the roof because his attic window led out there and smoked until midnight. Napped then got up at 5am. By the time we were on the bus the buzz was fading. But after a ride or two at Six Flags it all rushed back for a bit.

[Z-Corn]

A joint is less than a gram if I recall and joints were like $5. $7 if laced with Valium.

Alright, I gave it a day and nobody else stepped in.

Bullshit, you can't smoke Valium.

[Daehawk]

Powdered up and sprinkled in it.

[Jaymann]

It is possible, but:

What are the Dangers of Inhaling Valium?
Smoking the drug probably won’t even produce the Valium ‘high’ effect and definitely won’t make the drug work better. The high temperatures the pill is exposed to can destroy some of the chemicals inside it, including the main active ingredient.

[Z-Corn]

Powdered up and sprinkled in it.

So did you personally find it worth $2 extra per jib?

[Kraken]

A joint is less than a gram if I recall and joints were like $5. $7 if laced with Valium.

Alright, I gave it a day and nobody else stepped in.

Bullshit, you can't smoke Valium.

I wondered about that.

When I was a kid I unknowingly bought some weed that was laced with PCP. That was a scary bad trip, especially since we weren't expecting it and didn't know why we were hallucinating.

[Alefroth]

A joint is less than a gram if I recall and joints were like $5. $7 if laced with Valium.

Alright, I gave it a day and nobody else stepped in.

Bullshit, you can't smoke Valium.

But you can put chalk in it and say it's Valium.

[LordMortis]

I can assume I had a joint laced with PCP once very young. If fucked me up bad. I assume this because later I smoked another joint laced with PCP, admitted to me after smoking and it was just as bad. I also smoke a white capped joint once.

All three people who did that without saying shit before hand can fuck right off.

Kids, make sure your friends are really your friends and not just asshole associates who would think that sort of thing is funny. I will say by the third time, I pretty much quit recreational street drugs deciding I'm too paranoid, even when there aren't mystery additives, and learned to favor the abuse of alcohol instead. I miss drinking. Stupid heart.

[Isgrimnur]

USA Today

Officials say they seized $2.3 million worth of marijuana mixed in with a shipment of jalapeño peppers at a Southern California port.

A Customs and Border Protection K-9 unit alerted officers to a shipment of peppers Thursday at the Otay Mesa cargo facility in San Diego.

A CBP news release says officers discovered more than 7,500 pounds of marijuana in the peppers’ pallets.

[Jaymann]

Jeff V. found a use for all those peppers.

[Kraken]

I'm a caregiver!

Wife got her medical card, which quadruples the number of dispensaries she can access, allows for delivery, makes her eligible for discounts, and lets her skip the lines and the taxes. It cost $250, plus substantial time and a plausible medical need, to pull that off. She is in it strictly for the CBD (which legitimately controls her chronic back pain). Admittedly, one can buy CBD anywhere, but only the licensed dispensaries can sell edibles and have to meet purity and dosage standards, so their product is superior to whatever you can buy at CVS.

As her designated caregiver, I get all those perks, too -- and, of course, I'm not restricted to CBD. I can possess "a 60-day supply" of up to 10 oz. (!) and possibly grow more than the 12-plant limit, but the law regarding cultivation predates recreational legalization and doesn't make much sense. Here's what being a caregiver means:

Duties of Personal Caregiver

105 CMR 725.025

A personal caregiver may:

(1) Transport a registered qualifying patient to and from a RMD;

(2) Obtain and transport marijuana from a RMD on behalf of a registered qualifying patient;

(3) Cultivate marijuana on behalf of a registered qualifying patient who has obtained a hardship cultivation registration;

(4) Prepare marijuana for consumption by a registered qualifying patient; and

(5) Administer marijuana to a registered qualifying patient.

An employee of a hospice provider, nursing facility, or medical facility serving as a personal caregiver for a registered qualifying patient admitted to or residing at that facility, or a visiting nurse, home health aide, or personal care attendant, may not cultivate marijuana for that patient.

Upon the death of a personal caregiver’s registered qualifying patient, the personal caregiver must notify the Department within five calendar days.

Restrictions on Personal Caregivers

105 CMR 725.025 (B)

A personal caregiver may not:

(1) Consume, by any means, marijuana that has been dispensed to or cultivated on behalf of a registered qualifying patient;

(2) Sell, provide, or otherwise divert marijuana that has been dispensed to or cultivated on behalf of a registered qualifying patient;

(3) Cultivate marijuana for the personal caregiver’s own use, unless the personal caregiver is also a registered qualifying patient who has obtained a hardship cultivation registration;

4) Cultivate marijuana for purposes of selling or providing marijuana to anyone other than the registered qualifying patient; or

5) Allow a registered qualifying patient who is under 18 years of age to possess marijuana at any time when not in the presence of the personal caregiver.

We're making our first visit to a medical dispensary on Monday, so I'll get updated info from them. This particular dispensary gives new medical patients a $200 credit -- meaning the money we paid for the card will get turned into "free" product.

[Kraken]

Today we went to NETA, the only recreational dispensary in the greater Boston area. There were hundreds of people in line. The wait for walk-ins was estimated at 3 hours. And this place is huge (serves 1,500 customers a day).

Wife showed her medical access card and we were ushered in a side door. There was no one in the queue so we sashayed right up to the counter. They have a deal where they refund (in credits) the cost of one's medical card; we decided to spend $200 today and get $100 off. As an unadvertised holiday special, all edibles were 20% off; Wife only buys edibles. Score!

They have a limit of 1/8th of flower in place due to the demand, and they only had one sativa on their menu at an unimpressive 12.5% THC, but I figured I'd pick some up since I was there anyway. When I asked, our budtender said they have some off-menu strains for medical patients and let me eyeball a tray of buds at a more impressive 25% (she tried to warn me off that, but I assured her that I'm expert level). When I said "gee, too bad I can only get an eighth" she said "oh, our daily limit for medical patients is 2 oz!"



I already had some weed and my checking account is tapped out at the moment, so I just got the eighth. Our tab before discounts was $240. Out the door? $105. No tax on medicine, of course. For now, Wife is the rockstar, but when I get my caregiver card I can get those same terms. I was so happy I almost teared up.

Their weed is very good. The strain that I bought at Berkshire Roots has a nicer flavor and delivers a brighter buzz, so I'll wait until I'm out there again to stock up. I look forward to finding out what their medical bennies are like. Wife is happy with her CBD, too. They have very good dark chocolate. Wish I could mail some of that to Daehawk to see if it would take his pain away for awhile. Wife is downright evangelical about CBD's magical pain relief.

[morlac]

Small steps but Cobb county, GA were I reside has basically decriminalized it for misdemeanor possession. No arrest, no tickets, no fines etc. They just wave the naughty finger at you and supposedly take it and destroy it. I believe that makes the third county in the Metro Atlanta area including the city of that has done this. Surprising since the State of Georgia back tracked on the some of the medical use last year.

[Z-Corn]

In the first eight days of legal weed sales, $1.6 million of recreational marijuana was sold at the five retail shops open around the state.


Not too shabby Michigan!

[Holman]

They just wave the naughty finger at you and supposedly take it and destroy it.

I'd be willing to bet that your cops are sooooo high right now.

[Kraken]

In the first eight days of legal weed sales, $1.6 million of recreational marijuana was sold at the five retail shops open around the state.


Not too shabby Michigan!

But more than 1,400 of the state's 1,771 communities have said they don't want marijuana businesses in their towns, so finding a city that's amenable to legal weed has been a challenge for businesses.

Is GR on that list?

In MA, any town that voted against legalization can ban the trade with no further action, and somewhere around 200 of 351 municipalities did. Three years after legalization, we still have vast legal-weed deserts and the black market is barely dented.

[Isgrimnur]

If it's available in 3/7 of the state, how far of a drive could it possibly be? 20 minutes?

[Daehawk]

In MA, any town that voted against legalization can ban the trade with no further action, and somewhere around 200 of 351 municipalities did.

Thats just stupid. If you are against it and wont partake then shut up and stay home and leave it alone. Allow others who want or better yet need it have access to it.

[Kraken]

If it's available in 3/7 of the state, how far of a drive could it possibly be? 20 minutes?

There is only one recreational dispensary in Boston (Brookline, actually). It always has long lines (which one can skip with a medical card). Getting there by T would take more than an hour each way; driving is a little faster, but there's no place to park. So unless you live in the city, it takes an afternoon. The new place in Natick would be a 45-minute drive each way (30 without traffic), so I ought to look into their hours/parking/policies (I think it's appointment-only.) Salem and Brockton are also pilgrimages. It's a small state, but traffic is endless along the eastern third.

Point being that one does not simply drive to marijuana the way one drives to the packy. It looks like that will be true in MI, too.

Now, I should also say that even though I'm an enthusiastic smoker, I still have almost half left of the 1/2 oz that I bought in July, and I bought a little more in August because the opportunity arose. I also grow my own 12 permitted plants. So I have plenty of weed until my next trip to the Berkshires. It's not like one goes to the pot shop every weekend.

(See that cluster of four shops on the western border? The one at the top is my favorite. We make overnight trips out there 2-3x per year, which is about how often I want to visit a dispensary.)

[Alefroth]

I have two shops within a five minute walk and four within ten, but at least you get to grow.

[Z-Corn]

In the first eight days of legal weed sales, $1.6 million of recreational marijuana was sold at the five retail shops open around the state.


Not too shabby Michigan!

But more than 1,400 of the state's 1,771 communities have said they don't want marijuana businesses in their towns, so finding a city that's amenable to legal weed has been a challenge for businesses.

Is GR on that list?

Nope, GR is pretty on-board with the inevitable future!

They are still hashing out ( ) details so nothing rec will be open until late spring/early summer. BUT when it all works out there will be a 12,000 plant grow in the industrial park on the other side of the railroad tracks through the woods at the end of my neighborhood and one rec shop about 3/4 mile down the road and another a 1/2 mile further down the road.

Maybe by then it won't cost $60 an eighth and $400 an oz.

[Paingod]

Maybe by then it won't cost $60 an eighth and $400 an oz.

Just because something's easily accessible and grows like a weed anywhere it's planted doesn't mean the prices will come down. Take a peek at the Canadian syrup cartels or standard practices in Big Pharma in the US. Eventually you'll have a group lobbying for the government to put them in control of the US market "for quality and regulation" purposes and they'll be the Weed Tycoons who decide how much you pay, and probably chase down personal growers to fine or sue them for growing with their seeds or against the group's doctrine.

I wish I could feel like that's just paranoid ranting.

[Jeff V]

Maybe by then it won't cost $60 an eighth and $400 an oz.

Just because something's easily accessible and grows like a weed anywhere it's planted doesn't mean the prices will come down. Take a peek at the Canadian syrup cartels or standard practices in Big Pharma in the US. Eventually you'll have a group lobbying for the government to put them in control of the US market "for quality and regulation" purposes and they'll be the Weed Tycoons who decide how much you pay, and probably chase down personal growers to fine or sue them for growing with their seeds or against the group's doctrine.

I wish I could feel like that's just paranoid ranting.

It'll come down if the supply ever outstrips the demand. I've read this is already a big problem, and will become a bigger problem as more communities legalize and potential growers are still going through the permit process.

Illinois get's lit in a few weeks. Question to those in earlier-adoption states....if you're growing your own, do you need to start with seed (and do they come in Burpee packs?) or are the little weedlings sold in greenhouses or weed stores?

[Jaymann]

I got a small bag of seeds through a friend of a friend. Started them in some mulch under a grow light then moved the small plants outside in pots. Grew extras so I could "weed" out the male plants. There are also restrictions on where you can grow them outside in CA. YMMV.

[Jeff V]

I got a small bag of seeds through a friend of a friend. Started them in some mulch under a grow light then moved the small plants outside in pots. Grew extras so I could "weed" out the male plants. There are also restrictions on where you can grow them outside in CA. YMMV.

I just think it's be neat to have a big potted weed plant indoors. I wouldn't be growing it as a personal crop (we have a very limited outdoor growing season as it is), but we have several large pots currently empty and it'd make a nice conversation starter, that's for sure.

[LawBeefaroni]

Maybe by then it won't cost $60 an eighth and $400 an oz.

Just because something's easily accessible and grows like a weed anywhere it's planted doesn't mean the prices will come down. Take a peek at the Canadian syrup cartels or standard practices in Big Pharma in the US. Eventually you'll have a group lobbying for the government to put them in control of the US market "for quality and regulation" purposes and they'll be the Weed Tycoons who decide how much you pay, and probably chase down personal growers to fine or sue them for growing with their seeds or against the group's doctrine.

I wish I could feel like that's just paranoid ranting.

Pretty sure the taxes alone here will be more than the street price once we go "legal".


I know people who buy online and get home delivery. One lives in $2m median home block directly across from an elementary school which is supposed to be a no crime zone. No one cares. I don't expect anyone's buying habits to suddenly go legit if pot can be had cheaper on the black market. It will become a War on Tax Avoidance to replace the War on Drugs.

[Jeff V]

I know people who buy online and get home delivery. One lives in $2m median home block directly across from an elementary school which is supposed to be a no crime zone. No one cares. I don't expect anyone's buying habits to suddenly go legit if pot can be had cheaper on the black market. It will become a War on Tax Avoidance to replace the War on Drugs.

That's going to shake out as well over time. While there is such a thing as illegal booze, it's not a significant dent in the overall booze market. Same will be with weed. The supply is not endless, and black market supply will be taxed as more and more growers go legit - higher prices will trickle down to the growers providing incentive and the lack of supply will cause black market weed to become more expensive as a result. With lower returns but the same high risk, I expect we'll see some surge in other illicit drugs such as coke or smack as black market supply chains change to products where the reward is more commensurate to the risk.

[Remus West]

Thats how they nailed Capone. Tax evasion seems to regularly be the best method for the government to nab gangsters.

[Kraken]

if you're growing your own, do you need to start with seed (and do they come in Burpee packs?) or are the little weedlings sold in greenhouses or weed stores?

They're very easy to grow from seed. IDK where one obtains seeds legally; one of my MI friends bought hers online. She wasn't worried about legality because MI is a look-the-other-way state. About once every other year I allow a male plant to mature and pollinate a few females to create a new seed crop.

Expert growers clone females and root the clippings.

[Unagi]

I friend of mine in college did the cloning... It took him a little while to figure out - but in the end it didn't seem too hard. (I have no idea how he did it, something on the ends of the clippings)