Jovenel Moise assassinated (Haiti)

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Jovenel Moise assassinated (Haiti)

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Killed at home.
Haiti's President Jovenel Moise was killed during an attack on his private residence early on Wednesday, according to the country's acting Prime Minister Claude Joseph.

...

It isn't immediately clear who will replace Moise. Judge Jean Wilner Morin, President of the National Association of Haitian Judges, told CNN that the line of presidential succession in the country is now murky.

Haiti's President of the Supreme Court would normally be next in line, but he recently died of Covid-19. For the acting Prime Minister Joseph to formally replace the President, he would have to be approved by Haiti's parliament, said Morin. But without recent elections, the parliament is effectively defunct.
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Re: Jovenel Moise assassinated (Haiti)

Post by Kraken »

Miami Herald paints a picture of a rudderless nation that needs US intervention NOW. There are lots of Haitians in FL.

WaPo calls for an international force under UN auspices.

Both pundits agree that the country needs some tough love, and needs it fast.
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Re: Jovenel Moise assassinated (Haiti)

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Kraken wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:30 pm Miami Herald paints a picture of a rudderless nation that needs US intervention NOW. There are lots of Haitians in FL.
As luck would have it, we're just about done withdrawing from Afghanistan. Time for a new foreign adventure, America!
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Re: Jovenel Moise assassinated (Haiti)

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We, and other nations have been there before. We fixed nothing. I can't see us going back and doing nothing again. Need to come up with a long term solution somehow.
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Re: Jovenel Moise assassinated (Haiti)

Post by Kraken »

If we put the same money and effort into Haiti that we put into Afghanistan, we'd see a very different ROI.
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Re: Jovenel Moise assassinated (Haiti)

Post by malchior »

Kraken wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:39 am If we put the same money and effort into Haiti that we put into Afghanistan, we'd see a very different ROI.
It's possible but they're still a corrupt mess. It'd be risk capital to say the least. Some stories (NYT link here) I've seen this morning say the police claim to have killed 4 of the 'foreign nationals' who did this and captured 2. They are describing them as mercenaries hired by Haitian nationals but haven't provided any evidence. The big coincidence at this time is that the interim Prime Minister was about to replaced with another person who is now claiming to be the "real" Prime Minister. I somehow expect no one will want to get involved because they look to be heading towards some civil meltdown.
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Re: Jovenel Moise assassinated (Haiti)

Post by hepcat »

I must ashamedly admit I had no idea things were that bad in Haiti. I read the initial news and thought that his death was an example of extremists trying to overthrow a democratically elected leader...until the linked article above made it clear he wasn't exactly that at all. The entire government there appears to be corrupt.

I don't know what can be done without intervention though. These things seldom resolve themselves on their own. :cry:
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Re: Jovenel Moise assassinated (Haiti)

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hepcat wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:27 amI don't know what can be done without intervention though. These things seldom resolve themselves on their own. :cry:
Right. We need to figure out a way to condition aid on progress but the real problem underneath this all is they aren't big enough fish to fry. Meaning the status quo is just easier to manage. Congress can allocate some aid and walk away. Conditioning aid would need robust Congressional action, a framework stood up to monitor compliance at some agency, etc. It's work and Congress is pretty broken. Maybe something will come together but this is sort of adjacent to *our problems*.
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Re: Jovenel Moise assassinated (Haiti)

Post by LawBeefaroni »

malchior wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 10:00 am
hepcat wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:27 amI don't know what can be done without intervention though. These things seldom resolve themselves on their own. :cry:
Right. We need to figure out a way to condition aid on progress but the real problem underneath this all is they aren't big enough fish to fry. Meaning the status quo is just easier to manage. Congress can allocate some aid and walk away. Conditioning aid would need robust Congressional action, a framework stood up to monitor compliance at some agency, etc. It's work and Congress is pretty broken. Maybe something will come together but this is sort of adjacent to *our problems*.
Needs a value proposition. If no one makes boatloads of money on the intervention, it's hard to sell.
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Re: Jovenel Moise assassinated (Haiti)

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How are they set for paper towels?
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Re: Jovenel Moise assassinated (Haiti)

Post by Alefroth »

malchior wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 10:00 am
hepcat wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:27 amI don't know what can be done without intervention though. These things seldom resolve themselves on their own. :cry:
Right. We need to figure out a way to condition aid on progress but the real problem underneath this all is they aren't big enough fish to fry. Meaning the status quo is just easier to manage. Congress can allocate some aid and walk away. Conditioning aid would need robust Congressional action, a framework stood up to monitor compliance at some agency, etc. It's work and Congress is pretty broken. Maybe something will come together but this is sort of adjacent to *our problems*.
Maybe some other world power will step in.
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Re: Jovenel Moise assassinated (Haiti)

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Is the Monroe Doctrine still a thing?
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Jovenel Moise assassinated (Haiti)

Post by malchior »

I think that is why the suggestions I saw were for the UN to step in. Everyone knows we're a shit show so the plan might be put together some rescue plan that Biden can nod at it but keep our hands mostly out of it. Maybe we'll pitch in a few dollars or some support. Who knows.
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Re: Jovenel Moise assassinated (Haiti)

Post by hepcat »

With all that money we saved on Trump's tariffs we could easily just give them a few billion and solve their issues.
Covfefe!
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Re: Jovenel Moise assassinated (Haiti)

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Jaymann wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 10:42 am How are they set for paper towels?
Hey, there's an idea. They need a new President. We have a used one who is looking for a new gig.
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Re: Jovenel Moise assassinated (Haiti)

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malchior wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:41 pm I think that is why the suggestions I saw were for the UN to step in.
They tried that already. It...did not go well.
In August 2016, a report written by UN special rapporteur Philip Alston was leaked to the New York Times. Alston issued a scathing condemnation of the UN's legal approach to cholera in Haiti, which he termed "morally unconscionable, legally indefensible and politically self-defeating." Alston also lamented that the UN's approach "upholds a double standard according to which the U.N. insists that member states respect human rights, while rejecting any such responsibility for itself."[88]

...

In 2010, Gérard Jean-Gilles, a 16-year-old Haitian boy who ran miscellaneous errands for the Nepalese soldiers in Cap-Haitien, was found dead hanging inside of MINUSTAH's Formed Police Unit base. UN personnel denied responsibility, claiming that the teen committed suicide. The troops released the body for autopsy seventy-two hours after the death; the examination ruled out suicide as a potential cause of death.[108] Nepalese UN troops were also accused for other misdeeds. Several days before the Jean-Gilles incident, the local press charged a Nepalese soldier of torturing a minor in a public area in Cap-Haitien. The soldier was said to have forced "his hands into the youth's mouth in an attempt to separate his lower jaw from his upper jaw, tearing the skin of his mouth."[109]

People related to Fanmi Lavalas (Haiti's largest leftist party) have repeatedly expressed discontent with MINUSTAH and its management of political public dissent. Protests on 15 November 2010 in Cap-Haitien and other areas of the country resulted in at least two civilian deaths and numerous injuries. MINUSTAH stated that the protests seemed politically motivated, "aimed at creating a climate of insecurity on the eve of elections." Regarding the deaths, it stated that a UN peacekeeper shot out of self-defence.[110]

Fanmi Lavalas (the party of former President Aristide) took part in the burial of Catholic priest Gerard Jean-Juste on 18 June 2009. It was later reported that the procession was suddenly interrupted by gunfire. Fanmi Lavalas witnesses said that Minustah Brazilian soldiers opened fire after attempting to arrest one of the mourners; the UN denied the shooting and reported that the victim had been killed by either a rock thrown by the crowd or a blunt instrument.[111]
The Haitians HATE foreign troops on their land - every intervention has been unpopular with the people. There appears to be no functional government with which to do business. Every aspect of Haitian society is corrupt to the point of dysfunction. This is a lose-lose scenario for anyone who gets involved.
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Re: Jovenel Moise assassinated (Haiti)

Post by Drazzil »

Foreign intervention and donations make the issue worse. Leave Haiti alone to sort out its own issues.
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Re: Jovenel Moise assassinated (Haiti)

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The French have done more to Fuck Haiti then anyone. This *should* be their issue to fix.
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Re: Jovenel Moise assassinated (Haiti)

Post by Isgrimnur »

CNN
Several of the men involved in the assassination of Haiti's President previously worked as US law enforcement informants, according to people briefed on the matter, as US investigators grapple with an increasing number of Florida links to the alleged hit squad.
...
At least one of the men arrested in connection to the assassination by Haitian authorities previously worked as an informant for the US Drug Enforcement Administration, the DEA said in a statement in response to CNN.
...
The DEA said it is aware of reports that some assassins yelled "DEA" at the time of their attack. The DEA said in its statement that none of the attackers were operating on behalf of the agency.

Other suspects also had US ties, including working as informants for the FBI, the people briefed on the matter said. The FBI said in response to CNN's reporting that it doesn't comment on informants, except to say that it uses "lawful sources to collect intelligence" as part of its investigations.
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Re: Jovenel Moise assassinated (Haiti)

Post by Max Peck »

Haiti PM asked to testify in President's assassination hearing
Haiti's head prosecutor has invited Prime Minister Ariel Henry to explain his connection to the main suspect in the killing of President Jovenel Moise.

President Moise was assassinated when gunmen stormed his home on 7 July.

Prosecutor Bedford Claude said that Mr Henry had multiple phone calls with suspect Joseph Felix Badio just hours after the assassination.

Mr Claude said Mr Henry was being "invited" to attend, as he did not have the authority to officially summon him.

Prosecutors said records obtained from phone operator Digicel confirmed that Mr Badio and Mr Henry spoke twice on 7 July just hours after President Moise's killing.

Geolocation data also showed that Mr Badio, whose whereabouts are currently unknown, was speaking from the scene of the crime.

In a letter to the prime minister, Mr Claude emphasised that his invitation was optional, but said that it was justified given what he called a "case of extreme gravity for the nation".

The hearing at the Court of First Instance of Port-au-Prince is due to take place at 1000 on Tuesday.

Investigators have reportedly alleged that Mr Badio, a former official with the Ministry of Justice, may have been involved in co-ordinating the killing. He has not publicly commented on these claims.

Mr Henry has previously told local media that he knew Mr Badio and defended him, adding that he didn't believe Badio was involved because he did not have the means.
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