The Imperial Presidency is still Imperial

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stessier
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Re: The Imperial Presidency is still Imperial

Post by stessier »

malchior wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:56 am
stessier wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:51 am Ah.

I don't think their actions will inspire people to come out and vote. And if it did, I think the other side would be equally inspired to vote against what is happening, so it is a wash.
I mean maybe...but mid-terms are tough to begin with and my continuing belief is the Democrats simply don't understand the fight we are in. It's not just bad politics, it is corrosive to law and order. But guess we'll see. I was hoping that we'd see abuses illuminated and righted. I thought they understood that faith in the system is failing despite experts everywhere talking about how this is a major issue. Instead, they returned to the old track like Trump never happened.
Yeah, I still don't see it. Abuses continue to come to light. Prosecuting those is not an easy thing and takes time - years, not months. It's pretty much the theme of every federal case. And the law isn't always set up well to handle the abuses - just because you think something should be illegal doesn't mean it actually is. It will be a major accomplishment to get through half the Jan 6th cases by the time the mid-terms roll around.

As for the mid-terms, it will, as it always has, come down to local engagement. Nothing happening today is going to have a very big effect on 2022. The party machine needs to start cranking up next Summer and find a reason for people to engage again like they did in 2020. Sustaining people's outrage for 18 months is not a winning plan.
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El Guapo
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Re: The Imperial Presidency is still Imperial

Post by El Guapo »

stessier wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:29 am
malchior wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:56 am
stessier wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:51 am Ah.

I don't think their actions will inspire people to come out and vote. And if it did, I think the other side would be equally inspired to vote against what is happening, so it is a wash.
I mean maybe...but mid-terms are tough to begin with and my continuing belief is the Democrats simply don't understand the fight we are in. It's not just bad politics, it is corrosive to law and order. But guess we'll see. I was hoping that we'd see abuses illuminated and righted. I thought they understood that faith in the system is failing despite experts everywhere talking about how this is a major issue. Instead, they returned to the old track like Trump never happened.
Yeah, I still don't see it. Abuses continue to come to light. Prosecuting those is not an easy thing and takes time - years, not months. It's pretty much the theme of every federal case. And the law isn't always set up well to handle the abuses - just because you think something should be illegal doesn't mean it actually is. It will be a major accomplishment to get through half the Jan 6th cases by the time the mid-terms roll around.

As for the mid-terms, it will, as it always has, come down to local engagement. Nothing happening today is going to have a very big effect on 2022. The party machine needs to start cranking up next Summer and find a reason for people to engage again like they did in 2020. Sustaining people's outrage for 18 months is not a winning plan.
I'm skeptical that material numbers of voters will care about any prosecution beyond Trump himself. Unless they start looking seriously at charges of members of Congress, or other members of the Trump family.

Though I think whether other people are prosecuted will have impacts on the conduct of future scuzzy public figures.
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malchior
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Re: The Imperial Presidency is still Imperial

Post by malchior »

stessier wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:29 amYeah, I still don't see it. Abuses continue to come to light. Prosecuting those is not an easy thing and takes time - years, not months. It's pretty much the theme of every federal case. And the law isn't always set up well to handle the abuses - just because you think something should be illegal doesn't mean it actually is. It will be a major accomplishment to get through half the Jan 6th cases by the time the mid-terms roll around.
Sure but this is what I worry about. The perception and reality is our system is preposterously slow, inefficient, and built to make sure elites are unaccountable. Trump spent how many years delaying action and then the courts throw up their hands and say the issue was moot? And more we are seeing unethical conduct swept under the rug to protect executive privilege. Trump showed us we have a major problem here. It demands action and reform. We are seeing nothing on that front.
As for the mid-terms, it will, as it always has, come down to local engagement. Nothing happening today is going to have a very big effect on 2022. The party machine needs to start cranking up next Summer and find a reason for people to engage again like they did in 2020. Sustaining people's outrage for 18 months is not a winning plan.
Sure but this isn't about sustaining rage. It's about addressing it. We're seeing increasing levels of discontent about this issue. Garland is openly in the crosshairs (fairly or not). Ignoring a burgeoning populist fire -- especially one that is fueled by a legitimate problem - is bad politics.
El Guapo wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:39 amI'm skeptical that material numbers of voters will care about any prosecution beyond Trump himself. Unless they start looking seriously at charges of members of Congress, or other members of the Trump family.

Though I think whether other people are prosecuted will have impacts on the conduct of future scuzzy public figures.
This is a fair observation. However, I'm pretty sure that the constant butt covering by the Garland DOJ for Trump's minions *AND* Trump is setting off people who organized hard and stood for hours in voting lines. The more I listen the more I realize they feel they were promised justice.
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gbasden
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Re: The Imperial Presidency is still Imperial

Post by gbasden »

malchior wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:01 pm However, I'm pretty sure that the constant butt covering by the Garland DOJ for Trump's minions *AND* Trump is setting off people who organized hard and stood for hours in voting lines. The more I listen the more I realize they feel they were promised justice.
This definitely resonates with me, and I've seen a lot of similar sentiments among my circle of friends and acquaintances.
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Little Raven
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Re: The Imperial Presidency is still Imperial

Post by Little Raven »

Both parties continue to push the Imperial Presidency.
A curious constitutional drama unfolded in the nation’s capital last week. Having failed to pass a moratorium on evictions, members of Congress took to the steps of the U.S. Capitol to demand that President Biden impose one.

For his part, Mr. Biden strode into the White House briefing room and suggested that the prerogative to make policy on the issue lay with Congress.

Soon enough, though, Mr. Biden relented, and Democrats celebrated. As policy, it was a progressive victory. Constitutionally, it was both troubling and bizarre.

The issue was not simply whether the moratorium was constitutional, though the federal courts have questioned the statutory authority the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention claimed. The underlying constitutional derangement pertained to the way members of Congress and the president were eager to endorse each other’s authority without exercising their own.

Democrats might protest that they had no choice but to turn to the White House because Republicans would not support a legislative moratorium. That may be, but the framers would have expected the defense of legislative power to take precedence over a policy dispute.

The framers assumed that each branch of government would maintain the separation of powers by jealously guarding its authority from encroachments by the others. The evictions episode was less tug of war than hot potato: Congress wanted the president to use executive authority, and the president wanted the legislature to legislate.

Democrats are not the only ones refusing to defend legislative authority. Republicans denigrating the House investigation into the insurrection of Jan. 6 — a physical assault on one branch of government incited by another — are unwilling even to defend the institution bodily.

The acid test of separation of powers is whether members of Congress are willing to assert their authority against a president of their own party. Democrats failed that on evictions, just as Republicans did by handing off authority to Donald Trump. Given this bipartisan consensus for presidential authority, it may be time to acknowledge reality: The concept of the separation of powers — which depends on members of Congress unifying to protect legislative power — has collapsed in the United States. We have become a de facto parliamentary system in which competing parties battle for executive power. The problem is that we have acquired all the vices of such a system but none of its virtues.
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