Should the Democrats get rid of the filibuster?

[malchior]

This is kind of exactly what I'm talking about when I speak about the Dem party being dragged ever rightward by the republicans. The repugnicans have fog collared and silenced the Dem majority. Every time the R's have power they smash and grab and tear shit up, and the Dem's talk a good game about not allowing this stuff when *they're* in power. Then the second they get the majority everything has to be "bipartisan" and they get all mealy mouthed and handwringy about doing their job to govern.

The Democrats are not moving more rightward. They have been ideologically stable for multiple election cycles. What you are talking about is their ability to change policy. They have been absolute dismal failures at this. They have significant headwinds because the system has been distorted beyond recognition but they don't even make attempts to communicate these problems in a way that resonates with voters.

FWIW their solution is HR.1. It is "popular" in composition when polled in parts but ask a person on the street if they know what it is or even why it is important. That there is the failure of Democrats. They create popular legislation and have *ZERO* ability to communicate it, sell it, or get people to agitate for it. And that is a significant factor about why the GOP is likely going to succeed at ending our democracy for practical purposes.

Edit: Another sad thing to consider is that even if they succeed at selling or pushing through policy change, their chances of policy surviving court challenges is very low. The ACA for example was chopped down significantly in impact and several of its important design components ruled away. Vital campaign reforms of the past were struck down and presage that HR.1 would not survive legal challenge.

Then the second these fuckin dems need the vote they go out scaremongering and pointing at the republicans and use the R's as a stick to beat the vote out of their tired, disenchanted voters. Wash rinse, repeat.

I agree with this generally and as I wrote in the post up thread. I get why they are disenfranchised.

This right here? This is why I will no longer vote. I'm fuckin done. Let the R's cause a collapse. After the R's (And their vichy democrat buddies... Vichycrats? hah! I like that one!) have been neumbergered, and introduced to the rope for all the crimes against humanity they will undoubtedly do in office, Then we can rebuild without their fucking taint.

What rope? It won't happen. You are looking for a "justice" that'll never come. The most the great majority of us here can do is prepare/order our own lives and try to get the people around us to wake up. Bad times are almost certainly coming and we have to accept the high likelihood of that. They've got the game pretty much locked away.

[malchior]

One last blast - this is a good summation of what I'm seeing - though I disagree with Shaub on one thing. Getting *something* done even roads is better than doing absolutely nothing to convince people they can get stuff done. But even then that is looking pretty watered down and dismal.

[Carpet_pissr]

We need a Great Leader.

[YellowKing]

While I agree the Democrats have been a marketing disaster for years, they're also fighting the human nature that the GOP has exploited so effectively. Bad news sells better than good news. Outrage sells better than hope. Short-term is easier than long-term. Pointing fingers is easier than solving problems. They've been fighting an uphill battle from the get-go.

[malchior]

While I agree the Democrats have been a marketing disaster for years, they're also fighting the human nature that the GOP has exploited so effectively. Bad news sells better than good news. Outrage sells better than hope. Short-term is easier than long-term. Pointing fingers is easier than solving problems. They've been fighting an uphill battle from the get-go.

Totally. But the rub is that this isn't a new problem. It has been an uphill fight for years yet we see the GOP innovating in their authoritarian pursuits and the Democrats basically are still going forward like it is the mid-90s. The lack of new blood in leadership is a huge problem IMO. Maybe they should start listening to someone like Katie Porter or AOC or Abrams because at least they know how to get people to pay attention. Meanwhile, most people don't give a shit what a Schumer or Pelosi has to say because "we" already know what they are going to say. That's the problem. The Republicans adjusted to them decades ago and yet they are still doing the same ineffective things.

[Alefroth]

Vote. Against any and all of McConnell’s allies if you believe in stopping corruption. They win by getting you too angry or annoyed or inconvenienced to bother voting.

If one wanted to donate, this seems like an effective place to put your money- https://briantylercohen.com/dont-be-a-mitch/

[Drazzil]

This right here? This is why I will no longer vote. I'm fuckin done. Let the R's cause a collapse. After the R's (And their vichy democrat buddies... Vichycrats? hah! I like that one!) have been neumbergered, and introduced to the rope for all the crimes against humanity they will undoubtedly do in office, Then we can rebuild without their fucking taint.

What rope? It won't happen. You are looking for a "justice" that'll never come. The most the great majority of us here can do is prepare/order our own lives and try to get the people around us to wake up. Bad times are almost certainly coming and we have to accept the high likelihood of that. They've got the game pretty much locked away.

The things the unfettered Republicans are pushing for, Racial apartheid, mass voter disenfranchisement, the hollowing out of the state to funnel cash to the top, doing away with the social safety net, cops killing POC without consequence and corporate monopolies etc. These things do not a stable state make. 3 out of 4 households in America are one month away from homelessness.

These things won't continue. There will be an incident. A financial collapse, or currency collapse, a police killing, some step too far by the Republicans that will cause a horrific protest, and a state crackdown. By the ballot or the bullet, change will come.

[Alefroth]

By the ballot or the bullet, change will come.

You're being too romantic. There's a good chance it won't.

[Little Raven]

To return to the original question, I have to say that the last few months have definitely validated my "no" vote. It has become abundantly clear that the Democrats simply don't have 50 votes for any of their truly ambitious plans, and when they do manage to scrape together 50 votes, they also have no trouble attracting enough Republican votes to fend off a filibuster.

So...there's literally no point in getting rid of it.

[El Guapo]

when they do manage to scrape together 50 votes, they also have no trouble attracting enough Republican votes to fend off a filibuster.

I can't wait for all of the significant pieces of legislation that are about to pass this year with 60+ votes.

[Little Raven]

I can't wait for all of the significant pieces of legislation that are about to pass this year with 60+ votes.

Well, every Congress in my lifetime has done less than the last, and I'm not expecting that to change this session. We probably won't see much move at all. But if there's evidence that all kinds of things WOULD move if only the filibuster were gone, I'm not seeing it.

[Smoove_B]

The specter of the filibuster enables them to never actually bring things to a vote; it allows them to wave their hands and say it's not worth it to even have a debate on a piece of legislation because holding a vote would be pointless.

It's for this reason that the filibuster must be terminated, at least as it's currently functioning.

"The world's greatest deliberative body" no longer deliberates or goes on the record for anything.

[Drazzil]

By the ballot or the bullet, change will come.

You're being too romantic. There's a good chance it won't.

For the sake of the American people and the growing majority of POC and other gendered people, I REALLY hope you're wrong.

[malchior]

Guess she just 'evolved' on this position.