Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

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Defiant
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by Defiant »

Apparently, both Jims have been vetoed, although not the remaining Republicans selected (one of whom also challenged Biden's win). Maybe she just doesn't like the name Jim?
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by ImLawBoy »

Just saw that McCarthy pulled all the nominations due to this.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by hepcat »

Defiant wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:43 pm Apparently, both Jims have been vetoed, although not the remaining Republicans selected (one of whom also challenged Biden's win). Maybe she just doesn't like the name Jim?
Jim Crow, Jim Jones, Jim Belushi...yeah, I get it.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by Smoove_B »

ImLawBoy wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:45 pm Just saw that McCarthy pulled all the nominations due to this.
Under the little known paragraph in Robert's Rules covering hurt fee fees.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by malchior »

Ah, a tantrum and (impending) cries of victimhood. The telltale playbook of the modern GOP.

I got a chuckle out of this.

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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by Kurth »

Is it too much to just call a spade a spade and say we are at war at this point? Not a shooting war, but an open and obvious political war. No one is even pretending or trying to put a positive spin on it. The house is holding investigations into the 1/6 insurrection, and McCarthy and the GOP tries to put some of the key figures - Jordan and Banks - that were responsible for that insurrection on the freaking committee.

These people are traitors and enemies of our democracy. Unfortunately, they have strong support within their local constituencies and in the right wing media, and nearly half the country would elect the authoritarian clown they have pledged fealty to if there were a presidential election tomorrow.

I'm feeling pretty depressed. Not sure where we go from here.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by malchior »

Yup. If you are paying attention eventually you most likely end up in this spot. It is just a matter of data accumulation. There are still slight chances we'll work through this but it isn't looking good. Next year is going to be either a real wake up call (when the GOP takes the House and/or Senate) or a glimmer of hope if America wakes up and rejects them.
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Defiant
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by Defiant »

malchior
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by malchior »

Time will tell if Pelosi made the right call but Cillizza thinks it's wrong...so it probably was the right move.

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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by Kraken »

Do I post Beau more often than I should? Tell me, if you don't find his perspective as valuable as I do...or if you're already watching his channel anyway.

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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

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There's no good reason not to post it. I've watched his videos off of your links.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by Kraken »

Alefroth wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:08 am There's no good reason not to post it. I've watched his videos off of your links.
Beau usually sees any given day's issue from an angle I wouldn't have considered, and helps me make up my mind when I haven't decided what to think. Which is not to say that I always agree with him, but I always value his input. I like the way his mind works.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by Alefroth »

He's got a great way of making very sharp points, but not coming across as aggressive or confrontational.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

:handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by malchior »

Greg Sargent and Paul Waldman at WaPo

The part at the bottom (bolded by myself) ended this piece and it really is Sargent and Waldman taking a shot at the political press for their continuing malpractice (for an example see the Cillizza related Tweet above). It's quite possibly a shot from the editorial side of the house at the other side for the piece that headlined in the Washington Post as, "Bipartisan House probe of Jan. 6 insurrection falls apart after Pelosi blocks two GOP members" as well.
We should be thankful that House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) just pulled Republicans out of any involvement in the select committee to examine the Jan. 6 insurrection. In so doing, he ensured that the committee’s investigation will both have more integrity and be more likely to undertake a valuable accounting.

Which goes to a larger truth about this moment: Efforts at a real examination of arguably the worst outbreak of political violence in modern times — and efforts to protect our democracy more broadly — will not be bipartisan. These things will be done by Democrats alone.

McCarthy’s handling of the Jan. 6 committee illustrates the point. It comes after House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) announced that she is nixing two of McCarthy’s picks to serve on it: Reps. Jim Banks (R-Ind.) and Jim Jordan (R-Ohio).

McCarthy mustered great outrage about this, railing that it was an “abuse of power” that had cost the committee “all legitimacy and credibility.”

In fact, precisely the opposite is true: By pulling out, McCarthy has boosted the committee’s legitimacy and credibility immeasurably. The less involved McCarthy is with this committee, the more likely it will be to undertake a genuine and comprehensive accounting.

McCarthy’s picks were expressly designed to prevent that accounting. This is not speculation or a mere guess at McCarthy’s motives. It is unavoidably clear from the public statements and conduct of Banks and Jordan themselves.

Banks’s first act on getting named by McCarthy was to release a statement declaring that the committee must investigate the “hundreds of violent political riots” in which “many more innocent Americans and law-enforcement officers were attacked.”

That’s an explicit declaration that the insurrection and President Donald Trump’s incitement of it should not be the focus of the committee and is a less serious matter than those riots.

Similarly, after Jordan was picked, he immediately declared he wants to serve on the committee because “this is impeachment Round 3,” unwittingly revealing — or perhaps unabashedly declaring — that he saw his role as solely a means for working to exonerate Trump.

<snip>

Here’s the bottom line: By nixing Banks and Jordan, Pelosi actually protected the integrity of the committee’s investigation, from their openly advertised intention to misdirect, disrupt and sabotage it. By appointing publicly committed saboteurs, McCarthy openly advertised the same intention.

The conventions of political reporting are such that this basic and obvious truth will not be faithfully rendered in press accounts. But it follows from a straightforward interpretation of the statements and conduct of those Republicans themselves.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by LordMortis »

By appointing publicly committed saboteurs, McCarthy openly advertised the same intention.
This is my instinctive take.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by Skinypupy »

Let's be honest, none of this is going to matter one bit.

The Dems will create one report based on actual facts, the GOP will create a separate report claiming it was a peaceful rally of tourists and only the antifa agitators in MAGA hats caused all the trouble. Both sides will tout their own report while claiming the other is biased nonsense.

And absolutely nothing at all will happen to anyone as a result of it all. There will be no accountability and we won't see even the slightest shift in public perception of 1/6, regardless of what these reports say.

It feels like a somewhat worthless exercise at this point, tbh.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

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Skinypupy wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:43 am It feels like a somewhat worthless exercise at this point, tbh.
This is why I'm largely shrugging my shoulders at the shock and anger that's being expressed by so many. This was never going to matter. Yeah, it's important to have an investigation, but it's just for posterity.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by malchior »

Skinypupy wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:43 am Let's be honest, none of this is going to matter one bit.

The Dems will create one report based on actual facts, the GOP will create a separate report claiming it was a peaceful rally of tourists and only the antifa agitators in MAGA hats caused all the trouble. Both sides will tout their own report while claiming the other is biased nonsense.

And absolutely nothing at all will happen to anyone as a result of it all. There will be no accountability and we won't see even the slightest shift in public perception of 1/6, regardless of what these reports say.

It feels like a somewhat worthless exercise at this point, tbh.
I somewhat disagree. It feels worthless because of the desperate state we are in. That makes efforts like this all the more important despite the results. We need to be able to tell the truth. Otherwise we are just a broken, failed state. Efforts like this are the difference between fighting for our democracy or just accepting defeat. Is it perfect? Far from it. They should have acted MUCH, MUCH QUICKER than this. The Democrats let the Republicans delay enough to cool down just enough to give the GOP space to make these arguments with our credulous national political press. I'll keep repeating it -- the Democrats are simply *abysmal* at politics however they are all we have standing up for us.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by Jaymann »

Blackhawk wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:57 am
Skinypupy wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:43 am It feels like a somewhat worthless exercise at this point, tbh.
This is why I'm largely shrugging my shoulders at the shock and anger that's being expressed by so many. This was never going to matter. Yeah, it's important to have an investigation, but it's just for posterity.
Which is exactly why I was overjoyed when they kicked the Jimmys to the curb.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by malchior »

I can imagine the look in Jim Jordan's eyes when he found out. He was SO READY to cause mayhem. It must have been like what would happen if you took a toy away from Sid from the first Toy Story.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by El Guapo »

I think the main thing that is going to matter is whether the committee can produce some media-friendly bombshell on this. Something like a call recording involving McCarthy, Trump or other important figures from Jan. 6th, or some e-mail where someone like Mo Brooks or Jim Jordan or someone is clearly anticipating rioting or the like.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by malchior »

Apparently this is a Liz Cheney idea. Bringing in a 'primary-ed' GOP member who has been a vocal critic of the big lie but still aligns to the GOP onboard is pretty smart in the absence of the clowns.

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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by ImLawBoy »

Are Cheney and Kinzinger barred from being on the committee without approval from their party leader? They seem like the types who would join if they could.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

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ImLawBoy wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:56 am Are Cheney and Kinzinger barred from being on the committee without approval from their party leader? They seem like the types who would join if they could.
They are both on the committee IIRC - they were picked by Pelosi.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by malchior »

El Guapo wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:05 pm
ImLawBoy wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:56 am Are Cheney and Kinzinger barred from being on the committee without approval from their party leader? They seem like the types who would join if they could.
They are both on the committee IIRC - they were picked by Pelosi.
Cheney is. Kinzinger is not (yet). Pelosi used one of her spots to nominate Cheney. There is some chatter she might add him anyway though.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

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malchior wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:07 pm
El Guapo wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:05 pm
ImLawBoy wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:56 am Are Cheney and Kinzinger barred from being on the committee without approval from their party leader? They seem like the types who would join if they could.
They are both on the committee IIRC - they were picked by Pelosi.
Cheney is. Kinzinger is not (yet). Pelosi used one of her spots to nominate Cheney. There is some chatter she might add him anyway though.
Ah I see - she's "considering" picking him. Which she should, I think.

Cheney sort of put McCarthy in a tough spot because I think McCarthy was just going to deny all Republican participation and then use the lack of Republican participation to brand any result as "partisan". Having one Republican (even if she is in bad standing with her conference at the moment) limits McCarthy's ability to do that, which led him to switch to sabotage instead.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by malchior »

I mean sabotage is still on the menu. I can't wait until they are called as witnesses. And yes that is sarcasm.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

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Kraken wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:47 am Do I post Beau more often than I should? Tell me, if you don't find his perspective as valuable as I do...or if you're already watching his channel anyway.

Nope. He just explained exactly how I’ve been feeling when he said, paraphrasing, “From a military standpoint, it was the right move to veto the GOP reps nominated to the 1/6 committee who were complicit in the insurrection. And let’s be clear: we are at the point in American politics where it’s appropriate and necessary to view things from a military standpoint when considering congressional committee appointments.”

That’s calling a spade a spade. We are basically at war. And I’m afraid it’s going to only get worse as we approach the mid terms and the 2024 election. Shit’s off the rails.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by naednek »

Alefroth wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:24 am He's got a great way of making very sharp points, but not coming across as aggressive or confrontational.
and often with a hint of snide. I like :)
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by Unagi »

off topic...
Kurth wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:24 am calling a spade a spade
That's 3 (times in the last 3 weeks... ) you're out!
I was enlightened myself.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by Skinypupy »

Kurth wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:24 am
Kraken wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:47 am Do I post Beau more often than I should? Tell me, if you don't find his perspective as valuable as I do...or if you're already watching his channel anyway.

Nope. He just explained exactly how I’ve been feeling when he said, paraphrasing, “From a military standpoint, it was the right move to veto the GOP reps nominated to the 1/6 committee who were complicit in the insurrection. And let’s be clear: we are at the point in American politics where it’s appropriate and necessary to view things from a military standpoint when considering congressional committee appointments.”

That’s calling a spade a spade. We are basically at war. And I’m afraid it’s going to only get worse as we approach the mid terms and the 2024 election. Shit’s off the rails.
I generally like and agree with what Beau says, but happened to stumble across a LA Times article from March that I’ll admit takes some of his shine off. Including this little gem that I didn’t know.
In 2007, federal authorities charged him and three Russian co-conspirators in a scheme that brought mostly young Eastern European women to the Florida panhandle illegally to work as maids in local resorts. King was sentenced to 41 months in prison, and he and his accomplices were ordered to collectively forfeit $1 million in assets. It is, he said, a period in his life that has shaped his views on the criminal justice system and immigration.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by Little Raven »

"Beau" is a persona. Justin King is almost certainly nothing like him.

Which doesn't invalidate everything he says...just know what you're getting.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by Kraken »

I don't feel that this information detracts from his videos, which speak clearly and consistently, but it's good to have that context.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

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Unagi wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:46 pm off topic...
Kurth wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:24 am calling a spade a spade
That's 3 (times in the last 3 weeks... ) you're out!
I was enlightened myself.
WTF??? I’ve been using the expression forever and without any inkling that there’s a racial element to it. And no one’s ever suggested there was. Is this something that’s widely known and I’ve just been incredibly ignorant my whole life?

I just googled the phrase, and there’s no mention of any racial element on Wikipedia, not that that’s the be all and end all, but still . . .

Edited to add: After doing a little more googling, the only source I see that suggests the idiom “to call a spade a spade” is racist is the NPR Codeswitch article which acknowledges that the origins of the phrase have no racial component and that:
For almost half a millennium, the phrase has served as a demand to "tell it like it is."
That notwithstanding, NPR concludes that:
So what does all of this mean for people who want to, well, "call a spade a spade"? I urge caution. Mieder concludes his case study with the argument that "to call a spade a spade" should be retired from modern usage: "Rather than taking the chance of unintentionally offending someone or of being misunderstood, it is best to relinquish the old innocuous proverbial expression all together."
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by malchior »

The list of stuff someone could possibly feel offended by is exhausting. Does that mean we should tolerate Washington Football Team's former name? Nope. It also doesn't mean we should kowtow to some delicate flower's need for us to tiptoe through every conversation. It all assumes bad intent which is not helpful.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

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Kurth wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:08 am
Unagi wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:46 pm off topic...
Kurth wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:24 am calling a spade a spade
That's 3 (times in the last 3 weeks... ) you're out!
I was enlightened myself.
WTF??? I’ve been using the expression forever and without any inkling that there’s a racial element to it. And no one’s ever suggested there was. Is this something that’s widely known and I’ve just been incredibly ignorant my whole life?

I just googled the phrase, and there’s no mention of any racial element on Wikipedia, not that that’s the be all and end all, but still . . .

Edited to add: After doing a little more googling, the only source I see that suggests the idiom “to call a spade a spade” is racist is the NPR Codeswitch article which acknowledges that the origins of the phrase have no racial component and that:
For almost half a millennium, the phrase has served as a demand to "tell it like it is."
That notwithstanding, NPR concludes that:
So what does all of this mean for people who want to, well, "call a spade a spade"? I urge caution. Mieder concludes his case study with the argument that "to call a spade a spade" should be retired from modern usage: "Rather than taking the chance of unintentionally offending someone or of being misunderstood, it is best to relinquish the old innocuous proverbial expression all together."
:think:
First, I certainly hope you know I wasn't trying to call you out as having any ill-intent, as I know you didn't. And yeah, it's a :think: 'er for sure... I just saw you use the phrase a few weeks ago, and it struck me that you probably hadn't seen the link that LawBeef had shared...


Personally, I've certainly used the phrase before - but I can use other phrases instead, so I'll likely just not use it... as Mieder concluded.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by Unagi »

malchior wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:05 am The list of stuff someone could possibly feel offended by is exhausting.
First, I get what you are saying.... but I don't really know that I actually feel that way. I mean, personally, I've not been overwhelmed by the very few tweaks I've maybe had to consciously make to my behavior or speech - but I've always had a heavy "wouldn't want to offend" angel on my shoulder, in my "real life / day-to-day", so I think I appreciate being 'shown the path' sometimes... (perhaps to a fault). Ironically, I think I come across as a bit of an offensive jerk on the internet.
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by Unagi »

Kurth wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:08 am Edited to add: After doing a little more googling, the only source I see that suggests the idiom “to call a spade a spade” is racist is the NPR Codeswitch article
To be clear, that NPR Codeswitch article you found via googling WAS the LawBeef link that I was directing you to with my original post.
LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:38 pm "Let's call an ace and ace."

Who the hell says that? Pure dog whistle.
I'm sorry that I wasn't more clear and forced your to dig around to find that.
:)
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Re: Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

Post by Jaymann »

I'm putting my comments in the Racism in America thread.
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