The politics of bathrooms

[Ralph-Wiggum]

And to protect our children! WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN????

[LordMortis]

It was just a statement that the NCAA is pulling games because of bathrooms where no one is currently physically hurt and doing nothing to punish Baylor where people were actually hurt.

This is a common tactic. Distract from the actual problem by pointing out some kind of hypocrisy elsewhere. They did the same thing by pointing out that artists who had canceled concerts due to HB2 had played in years past in some country with human rights issues. As if everything in the world is binary, and if you don't do A then you have no right to do B. It's a bunch of smoke and mirrors (just as their common refrain of the words "logic" and "liberal media.") It's all designed to distract you from the fact that they're discriminating against a bunch of innocent people for no reason.

I support the statement. The NCGOP is very much correct. If I had my druthers the NCAA would pull the plug on Baylor's program for the way they handle(d) rape and how it might interfere with their football program. It's a black eye on the entire system. On a related note, is Penn State really honoring Paterno this weekend? Seriously?

[GreenGoo]

If everything wrong isn't fixed then it's hypocritical to fix one thing because all the other things are still wrong.

Doesn't leave a lot of room for incremental improvement.

[Smoove_B]

McCrory Refuses to Concede:

North Carolina Gov. Pat McCrory (R) has refused to concede to his Democratic challenger, state Attorney General Roy Cooper, in the governor's race, with Cooper leading by fewer than 5,000 votes.

Cooper has declared victory in the race, but McCrory said Wednesday that he will not concede until Nov. 18 when counties complete a canvass of their votes.

"The process is continuing in North Carolina," McCrory said. "The election is not over."

Ugh.

Though Donald Trump and Sen. Richard Burr (R-NC) both pulled off decisive victories in North Carolina, it appears McCrory was not able to ride their coattails.

He better hurry. If he concedes now there still might be an opening for him in Trump's cabinet.

[Captain Caveman]

McCrory finally just conceded.

[El Guapo]

McCrory finally just conceded.

Hallelujah. Not to overstate the significance of the democrats winning the NC governorship when Republicans won almost everything else nationally (and will retain a supermajority in the NC legislature, pending 2017 elections I suppose). But it's one small bit of justice (and avoids the potentially epic shitstorm of the NC legislature overriding the vote based on spurious claims of voter fraud).

[YellowKing]

And....HB2 might be dead. Cooper and the legislature have announced a special session to discuss repeal after Charlotte voluntarily offered to repeal their ordinance in kind.

Of course, McCrory and the GOP had to get their parting shots in:

"This sudden reversal with little notice after the gubernatorial election sadly proves this entire issue originated by the political left was all about politics and winning the governor’s race at the expense of Charlotte and our entire state,” the (McCrory) release stated.

WTF?

“Today Roy Cooper and Jennifer Roberts proved what we said was the case all along: their efforts to force men into women's bathrooms and shower facilities was a political stunt to drive out-of-state money into the governor's race,” Senate President Pro Tem Phil Berger (R-Rockingham) and Speaker Tim Moore (R-Cleveland) said.

This makes me so mad I could spit nails. "Forcing men into women's bathrooms..." Go fuck yourself you corrupt lying sacks of shit.

[Paingod]

We should simply change the door signs.

If you have a penis, you go in this bathroom. If you have a vagina, you go in that bathroom. Nobody cares what gender you associate with, but they sure as shit care about penis-laden men taking advantage of rules that let them enter a sacred vagina-specific space.

I sympathize with transgender folks on this, but I side more with women being afraid of predatory men who exploit loopholes.

[hepcat]

Even when there is zero evidence that that is actually even a problem?

Pee where you feel most comfortable. Society won't end because of it.

[Paingod]

Even when there is zero evidence that that is actually even a problem?

Zero Evidence. I don't like the way the article slants everything "Evil Leftists" and will see if I can find a saner source. I did recently read an account by a woman who was assaulted in a bathroom by a 'transgender' male, and she was a very vocal opponent.

[Isgrimnur]

Because no woman has ever been assaulted in the women's room by a cis male...

[YellowKing]

We already have laws against assaulting women and kids. You don't need new laws, particularly when those laws are unenforceable. You're trading large-scale disenfranchisement to prevent extremely rare and isolated incidents that we already have laws in place to deter.

I think the economic impact and the number of companies that pulled out of NC over this bill are proof enough that this was bad law, no matter the logic to justify it. Unless you believe all these corporations are also part of a vast left-wing conspiracy.

[Paingod]

So I stepped in a big pile of shit I hadn't really read enough about, but I still see a problem that can't easily be addressed.

The only solution is to de-segregate bathrooms and create a national fund that turns all bathrooms into unisex restrooms that are only capable of having one occupant at a time. Have a bathroom with 5 stalls? Turn that into a hallway with 5 doors.

[Zarathud]

I am tired of accommodating fear and prejudice. If a woman is sexually assaulted by someone in the bathroom, you prosecute them for sexual assault not using the wrong bathroom! Easy solution.

We do not need a TSA for bathroom usage.

[El Guapo]

And....HB2 might be dead. Cooper and the legislature have announced a special session to discuss repeal after Charlotte voluntarily offered to repeal their ordinance in kind.

So is HB2 repeal likely? I'm all for that, but I'm a little confused about why the state GOP might agree to repeal it now. They still have a supermajority in the legislature, and presumably the same people who passed it are sill mostly in charge in the legislature, and I doubt that they have changed their minds about the public policy of the bill. I guess the gubernatorial election was in significant part about HB2, but since when does the state GOP care about the will of the people?

It's (seemingly) good, but a little baffling. I'm still dubious about whether they will actually go through with repeal.

[Chaz]

While I'm obviously all for repealing HB2, I'm pretty annoyed that the stipulation was that before they repeal it, Charlotte had to roll back the equal protection act that prompted HB2 to be brought up. Thankfully, it sounds like Charlotte's rollback is contingent on HB2 being repealed before the end of the year, but it's still pretty crummy. Like, "Okay, fine, we'll remove the codified legal repression of trans folks, but only if you remove your codified legal protection of them. That way, we can get back to just repressing their rights in the semi-legal ways we're used to."

I wish Charlotte had stood their ground and said "No, we think this measure is as right now as it was when we passed it. You don't get to use this is cover for your shitty law being on the books."

[El Guapo]

I wish Charlotte had stood their ground and said "No, we think this measure is as right now as it was when we passed it. You don't get to use this is cover for your shitty law being on the books."

Problem is there's no way to force the legislature to repeal it, and I assume if Charlotte said that then the legislature would tell them to go pound sand. Per a court order they are supposed to have redistricting and new legislative elections in 2017 (assuming that order isn't reversed on appeal), so *maybe* under the new districts the legislature will be more vulnerable, or *maybe* HB2 gets struck down in the courts, BUT I really wouldn't count on either.

So yeah it's shitty, but honestly I was expecting that the legislature would just refuse to repeal HB2 at all, so it's better than I thought. Besides, Charlotte can probably re-pass it during a favorable political climate.

[Isgrimnur]

WSOC

All of this is too late to save major sporting events that have pulled out of Charlotte -- including the NBA All-Star game and the ACC Championship football game -- or major businesses from leaving, like PayPal.

The estimated economic hit for Charlotte alone has been $500 million.

In the war of deep pockets, Charlotte is going to come out on the losing side.

[Blackhawk]

Even when there is zero evidence that that is actually even a problem?

Zero Evidence. I don't like the way the article slants everything "Evil Leftists" and will see if I can find a saner source. I did recently read an account by a woman who was assaulted in a bathroom by a 'transgender' male, and she was a very vocal opponent.

Effectively zero evidence. First off, the article gives four examples of abuse, and one of assumption where no actual abuse or suggestion of intent to abuse every occurred. Second, how does this compare to the numbers in any other environment, or of same-sex bathroom assaults, or any other comparable situation? Third, this is four potential abuses out of how many millions of bathroom visits? There are an estimated 1.4 million trans people in the US. One can assume that they go to a public restroom several times per year, and most of those wearing a dress don't go into the mens' room. You don't punish more than a million people for a small handful do, and something that is so rare that the chances of it happening are statistically irrelevant isn't evidence of a 'problem.'

[Smoove_B]

Even when there is zero evidence that that is actually even a problem?

Zero Evidence. I don't like the way the article slants everything "Evil Leftists" and will see if I can find a saner source. I did recently read an account by a woman who was assaulted in a bathroom by a 'transgender' male, and she was a very vocal opponent.

None of those 5 examples are individuals transitioning gender and seeking the use of a bathroom. All of them were men that intentionally try to disguise themselves (or not, #1) in a way that allowed them to commit crimes. I'm suddenly reminded of how gun owners complain about how we write laws that end up punishing law-abiding citizens because of the behavior of those that would figure out a way to commit crimes regardless.

[YellowKing]

Repeal of HB2 is now in jeopardy after Charlotte strikes only the "public accommodations" portion of their ordinance. This means Charlotte still offers protection in that taxis and other forms of public transportation cannot discriminate against transgender folks and businesses cannot discriminate against vendors or customers based on them being transgender.

I would like to see the justification from Republicans why transgender people should not be able to ride in a taxi, or why they should be refused service from a business, now that the "sexual predator in the bathrooms" angle has been taken off the table.

It's a bit of a shrewd move on Charlotte's part. While they're risking HB2 not being repealed, they've taken away the GOP's only defense of HB2.

Going back to the sexual predators argument, keep in mind that all that stuff is a bunch of smoke and mirrors designed to distract you from the fact that Pat McCrory and the GOP stripped protections from not only transgender people, but gay people as well. The Charlotte ordinance also specifically protects homosexuals from being discriminated against by businesses and public transportation, and there's no way to justify it other than "we hate gay people."

[Rip]

So close.

[tjg_marantz]

Neanderthals

[Smoove_B]

I guess after the successes in North Carolina, Texas also wants to try:

In November, one of the state’s most senior politicians published his top 10 priorities for the next legislative session. A “Women’s Privacy Act” was at number six, right after banning immigration “sanctuary cities” and insisting on photo ID at the ballot box.

The act, said lieutenant governor Dan Patrick, is necessary so that “women and girls” can have “privacy and safety in their restrooms, showers and locker rooms”.

And for those that care:

“Starting in 2017, we will have a friend in the White House who was clearly elected because the people of this country believe in the conservative principles that have guided the way we govern in Texas,” Patrick said in November.

Smith, of Equality Texas, said that Texas’s conservative politicians telegraphed their intentions to introduce more anti-equality legislation long before Trump’s victory.

[em2nought]

The real injustice, in regard to bathrooms, is why in a cavernous warehouse store do I have to sit on a john, in a stall more narrow that that provided for the urinal, and have my knee blocked by the toilet paper dispenser from it's natural position? It's almost as hard to wipe at Walmart as it is on a john in a passenger jet.

[Smoove_B]

Another day, another state. Next up - Virginia:

The legislation from Del. Robert G. Marshall (R-Prince William) goes further than the North Carolina measure in one regard: It requires school principals to notify all parents if a student at their children’s school asks to be treated as a member of the opposite sex — whether by being allowed to use a different bathroom or being addressed by a different name or pronoun.

...

He expressed fear that men and boys will pretend to be transgender to infiltrate bathrooms and locker rooms used by women and girls.

“Some guys will use anything to make a move on some teenage girls or women,” he said. “Mere separation of the sexes should not be considered discrimination.”

I seriously do wonder how some of the people proposing these things are able to to leave their homes and move about all day. It seems like they'd prefer that women wear some type of full-body covering to keep men's minds from wandering into bad places. I'm also not sure how I feel about this next section:

“Governor McAuliffe has been clear that he will veto any bill that restricts the rights of Virginians based on sexual orientation or gender identity,” McAuliffe spokesman Brian Coy said in a written statement. “As we saw in North Carolina, these bills don’t just hamper civil rights — they kill jobs. The Governor is hopeful that Republicans in the General Assembly will drop these counterproductive bills and turn their focus toward building a stronger and more equal Virginia economy.”

The first part sounds terrific. But to throw in the part about it being a job killer? If you're on the fence about passing a law like this and the only thing stopping you is that you think it will impact jobs? Really?

[Isgrimnur]

Maybe not the most tone-sensitive way of putting it, but as the chief executive, the calculus of millions in lost revenue versus unsubstantiated fearmongering is passable to me.

[Jeff V]

"Jobs" does appear to be the magic word these days. Never mind that statistically we are near what is considered "peak employment" in this country. It's the buzzword that gets stupid goobers voting GOP.

[gilraen]

The first part sounds terrific. But to throw in the part about it being a job killer? If you're on the fence about passing a law like this and the only thing stopping you is that you think it will impact jobs? Really?

McAuliffe is not on the fence about it at all, the "job killer" argument is there for the benefit of Republicans in their state government, so that if they vote against the bill, they can have a valid "excuse" for their constituents.

[Smoove_B]

McAuliffe is not on the fence about it at all, the "job killer" argument is there for the benefit of Republicans in their state government, so that if they vote against the bill, they can have a valid "excuse" for their constituents.

Makes sense. But if you tell me you're not voting for a transgender bathroom bill because it's a "job killer", I'm labeling you a garbage person.

[Skinypupy]

I'm curious what these neanderthals think transgender people did prior to these bathroom bills being proposed. Never use the restroom in public?

[Isgrimnur]

I'm curious what these neanderthals think transgender people did prior to these bathroom bills being proposed. Never use the restroom in public?

Knowledge is a dangerous thing.

[Smoove_B]

I'm curious what these neanderthals think transgender people did prior to these bathroom bills being proposed. Never use the restroom in public?

It's hard to say because apparently there's an epidemic (shudder) of men dressing as women for the explicit reason of sneaking into bathrooms and locker rooms to molest women. It's apparently making it really hard to determine just how many people need to be able to choose a bathroom based on gender and not molesting preferences.

[malchior]

Yup - definitely - and these bathroom bills would have totally stopped a creep like this. They just need to include some language to stop homosexuals from going into <gender-specific> bathrooms also. They just need to wait until they get home like the Ts. I mean why should they get a pass - they are inherently sick people, right?

[Blackhawk]

McAuliffe is not on the fence about it at all, the "job killer" argument is there for the benefit of Republicans in their state government, so that if they vote against the bill, they can have a valid "excuse" for their constituents.

Makes sense. But if you tell me you're not voting for a transgender bathroom bill because it's a "job killer", I'm labeling you a garbage person.

Better to throw out the jobs line than to say "Because freedom!" and have it passed.

[Isgrimnur]

Texas

Over loud boos from a dozen protesters outside the Senate chamber, two Republican leaders unveiled legislation Thursday that would crack down on local laws and school policies requiring bathroom accommodations for transgender Texans.

Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick said Senate Bill 6, filed Thursday, would “protect businesses from government interference” by overturning local government ordinances that require bathroom accommodations for transgender people. Each business would be free to form its own policies, he said.

The bill also would require public schools and universities, as well as government buildings, to designate bathroom use by people “according to their biological sex,” said the bill’s author, Sen. Lois Kolkhorst, R-Brenham. Schools would remain free to make accommodations, including single-occupancy bathrooms and changing rooms, for transgender students, she said.

“We know it’s going to be a tough fight,” Patrick said. “The forces of fear and misinformation will pull out all the stops, both in Texas and nationally, but we know we are on the right side of the issue, we are on the right side of history.”

SB 6 also would create enhanced criminal penalties for crimes committed in public bathrooms, locker rooms or changing facilities. “The right of every Texan will be protected when they find themselves in the most intimate private setting,” Kolkhorst said.
...
Particularly with Patrick’s strong support, passage can be expected in the Senate, where Republicans outnumber Democrats 20-11 (support from 19 senators is required to have a vote on most bills) and where the GOP caucus has grown far more conservative in recent years.

The House could prove to be a different matter. Speaker Joe Straus, R-San Antonio, has indicated that his priorities lie elsewhere, particularly addressing problems with Child Protective Services, improving mental health and reforming school finance to reduce the property tax burden on so-called property wealthy districts like Austin.

Strong opposition from the Texas Association of Business — joined by such large companies as Apple, IBM and Intel— also undercuts support from a source that Republicans typically rely upon.

The business group released a study last month warning that legislation like the transgender bathroom bill could cost the state economy up to $8.5 billion a year and threaten 185,000 jobs. Passage would bring boycotts affecting the travel and tourism industry, discourage businesses from relocating or expanding in the state and make it difficult to recruit and retain talented workers to Texas, the study said.

Patrick dismissed what he called “predictions of economic doom,” saying states with liberal transgender policies are at the bottom of the economic ladder, while states like North Carolina, which has experienced an economic backlash over a law similar to the one proposed for Texas, have robust economies.

[Max Peck]

“We know it’s going to be a tough fight,” Patrick said. “The forces of fear and misinformation will pull out all the stops, both in Texas and nationally, but we know we are on the right side of the issue, we are on the right side of history.”

The utter lack of self awareness in that statement is delicious.

[Isgrimnur]

Probably moreso when you don't have to live in the same state run by these people.

[Skinypupy]

Patrick dismissed what he called “predictions of economic doom,” saying states with liberal transgender policies are at the bottom of the economic ladder, while states like North Carolina, which has experienced an economic backlash over a law similar to the one proposed for Texas, have robust economies.

Wait...what? Please tell me I'm misunderstanding this quote and he didn't just cite "liberal trans policies" as a contributing factor to a poor economy.

[em2nought]

I'm curious what these neanderthals think transgender people did prior to these bathroom bills being proposed. Never use the restroom in public?

Being just a normal person, I never used the school restroom due to the preponderance of rednecks in my high school. Same went for the gym shower. I couldn't however escape them on the school bus.