Gun Politics

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Little Raven
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Little Raven »

I'm quite pro-gun but not at all sad to see the NRA go down in flames. They stopped being an advocacy group a long time ago.
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Re: Gun Politics

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They are just reincorporating in Texas where they will find a much friendlier political environment.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Smoove_B »

BREAKING: The US Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit has ruled that there is no right to carry - either openly or concealed in public.
NJ, represent:


Today the Ninth Circuit agreed that laws that limit carrying guns in public are constitutional. Proud that NJ led a brief for 10 states in that case, & proud to support firearm safety laws that protect both the public & law enforcement officers. Read more: https://bit.ly/3d200LB
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Re: Gun Politics

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Image

Image

I imagine that SCOTUS is going to have something to say about that.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by LordMortis »

I see a notice that Biden is supposed to make an announcement tomorrow that is making lawbeef style of investing pay off.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/0 ... uns-479704
President Joe Biden is expected to unveil a long-awaited package of executive actions to curb gun violence Thursday at the White House, according to four people familiar with the plan.
This also comes at a weird time that I see notices in front of some small stores advertising specific ammo being sold (and these are not gun/ammo stores)
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Little Raven
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Little Raven »

I Helped Lead the Gun Control Movement. It’s Asking the Wrong Questions.
My brother was critically injured in a mass shooting atop the Empire State Building almost 25 years ago. Every time another such shooting makes headlines it breaks my heart to know that other families are experiencing the same shock, horror and grief that ours has.

It also breaks my heart to see gun control supporters, part of a movement I once helped to lead, repeat the mistakes that doom us all to the unacceptable status quo: tens of thousands of shooting deaths a year.

The pattern is as familiar as it is tragic: In the immediate aftermath of a mass shooting, the main demand of political leaders and gun control groups is a federal assault weapons ban. The news media, which seems to pay attention to gun laws only in the wake of mass shootings, amplifies that call, mostly taking at face value the idea that an assault weapons ban is the best way to prevent “gun violence”. Then, as headlines about the latest calamity fade, so do the hopes of federal policy change.

If this pattern plays out again after the shootings in Georgia and Colorado, no one should be surprised. One of the most common questions I have gotten from journalists has been, “If things didn’t change as a result of (insert previously unthinkable tragedy here), how can we ever expect them to change?”

I believe that is the wrong question, and illustrates the problem with the gun control debate in the United States.
This guy has an excellent take, and I heartily recommend that you read the whole thing.
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Re: Gun Politics

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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Grifman »

Little Raven wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:11 am I Helped Lead the Gun Control Movement. It’s Asking the Wrong Questions.
My brother was critically injured in a mass shooting atop the Empire State Building almost 25 years ago. Every time another such shooting makes headlines it breaks my heart to know that other families are experiencing the same shock, horror and grief that ours has.

It also breaks my heart to see gun control supporters, part of a movement I once helped to lead, repeat the mistakes that doom us all to the unacceptable status quo: tens of thousands of shooting deaths a year.

The pattern is as familiar as it is tragic: In the immediate aftermath of a mass shooting, the main demand of political leaders and gun control groups is a federal assault weapons ban. The news media, which seems to pay attention to gun laws only in the wake of mass shootings, amplifies that call, mostly taking at face value the idea that an assault weapons ban is the best way to prevent “gun violence”. Then, as headlines about the latest calamity fade, so do the hopes of federal policy change.

If this pattern plays out again after the shootings in Georgia and Colorado, no one should be surprised. One of the most common questions I have gotten from journalists has been, “If things didn’t change as a result of (insert previously unthinkable tragedy here), how can we ever expect them to change?”

I believe that is the wrong question, and illustrates the problem with the gun control debate in the United States.
This guy has an excellent take, and I heartily recommend that you read the whole thing.
Sorry, but his solutions are not enough. There are two simple and competing facts that easily summarize our problem:

1) There are far too many guns in this country
2) Gun owners/supporters will never support any laws that lead to a dramatic reduction in the number of guns in this country.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
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Little Raven
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Re: Gun Politics

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Grifman wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:28 pmSorry, but his solutions are not enough.
I am confused. Even if you think his ideas don't go far enough, surely they're a start. Given that you seem to believe going farther is politically impossible at the moment, why not start small? Politics is the art of the possible, after all. The perfect should never be the enemy of the good.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Little Raven »

I'm sure Beau talks about all of this, but I'm too lazy to watch a 7 minute video, so here's a link to Biden's gun plan and my random thoughts about it.

I suspect I'm one of the more pro-second amendment types around here, but I have to say....I don't hate it. I don't know that it will do much of anything, but it's certainly non-offensive. Let's break it down.
  • The Justice Department, within 30 days, will issue a proposed rule to help stop the proliferation of “ghost guns.” Well, this will be a hoot. I can't wait to see what rule the Justice Department comes up with. (I suspect it'll be something like "You can't sell all the parts together as a kit." and manufacturers will say "Whatever you say, boss.." - and all the parts will then be sold separately, with helpful lists published all over the internet about which parts go together.) The big problem here is that we're swimming upstream. Technology puts more and more power into the hands of individuals. That's what's so great about it. But a gun is not really that complex of a machine. With modern tools, anyone who is willing to invest any amount of time and money into it can make one.
  • The Justice Department, within 60 days, will issue a proposed rule to make clear when a device marketed as a stabilizing brace effectively turns a pistol into a short-barreled rifle subject to the requirements of the National Firearms Act. Uh...sure. This will end up being another fun distraction for the rules-lawyers, but this is an accessory that is an utterly insignificant part of the larger fun market, so...whatever.
  • The Justice Department, within 60 days, will publish model “red flag” legislation for states. Sounds great. I'm not opposed to red-flag legislation, though I suspect we'll have to tread very carefully to avoid doing more harm than good. But you have to start somewhere, so let's see what the JD comes up with.
  • The Administration is investing in evidence-based community violence interventions. Fantastic. We're certainly seeing quite an uptick in urban violence, so anything that can help is more than welcome.
  • The Justice Department will issue an annual report on firearms trafficking. Sounds great. More data is always good.
  • The President will nominate David Chipman to serve as Director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. Sure, whatever. I think some people are upset about this, but it doesn't bother me. The ATF needs a director. Chipman sounds more than qualified.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Kraken »

Little Raven wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:54 pm I'm sure Beau talks about all of this, but I'm too lazy to watch a 7 minute video

The President will nominate David Chipman to serve as Director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. Sure, whatever. I think some people are upset about this, but it doesn't bother me. The ATF needs a director. Chipman sounds more than qualified.[/list]
Beau says this fellow is connected in some way shape or form to Waco, so highly unlikely to be confirmed.
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Re: Gun Politics

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The Justice Department, within 60 days, will issue a proposed rule to make clear when a device marketed as a stabilizing brace effectively turns a pistol into a short-barreled rifle subject to the requirements of the National Firearms Act.
The whole SBR definition is broken. Sure, if you take a rifle and shorten the barrel, you have a short barreled rifle. If you make a rifle with a short barrel, you have a short barreled rifle. Yet if you make a rifle with a short barrel and no stock you have a pistol.

If you take a handgun and add a fixed stock you have a short barreled rifle.


16" barrel rifle that shoots rifle rounds = pistol.
3" barrel handgun with a stock that shoots handgun rounds = rifle.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Little Raven »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:15 pmThe whole SBR definition is broken.
No argument here. Like most attempts to put arbitrary rules on firearms, it has ended up producing more issues than it solved.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Isgrimnur »

And then there's pistol-caliber carbines (PCCs).

I need a freaking program to tell the players apart.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by malchior »

It's almost like there might be an intent to make it nearly impossible to define these things.
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Re: Gun Politics

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I don't know how many of you remember a TV show called The Rebel with Nick Adams. It was from the early 60s.
Anyrate the firearm he used was a sawed off lever action rifle.
Ten years ago Henry firearms decided to make a duplicate of it. I of course have one. They got around the short barreled naming by calling it a pistol.

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Re: Gun Politics

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I could have sworn the Rebel carried a sawed off double barreled shotgun. But I'm going off hazy memories of my grandmothers house here. :ninja:
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Re: Gun Politics

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Little Raven wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:06 pm I could have sworn the Rebel carried a sawed off double barreled shotgun. But I'm going off hazy memories of my grandmothers house here. :ninja:
You're right:
Image

That gun looks like The Rifleman.
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Re: Gun Politics

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Little Raven wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:37 pm
Grifman wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:28 pmSorry, but his solutions are not enough.
I am confused. Even if you think his ideas don't go far enough, surely they're a start. Given that you seem to believe going farther is politically impossible at the moment, why not start small? Politics is the art of the possible, after all. The perfect should never be the enemy of the good.
I never said that we shouldn't start with his proposals, did I? :) All I said was that they didn't go far enough. I am all for effective gun control proposals. But we are fooling ourselves if the gun problem can be solved with tinkering around the edges.
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Re: Gun Politics

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My bad. I was thinking of Steve McQueen in Wanted: Dead or Alive.
It's easy now for this olde man to get confused.
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Re: Gun Politics

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Isgrimnur wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:26 pm And then there's pistol-caliber carbines (PCCs).

I need a freaking program to tell the players apart.
That's a marketing/industry term, not an ATF distinction. PCCs are rifles. Same as a .44 mag lever action or whatever.
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Re: Gun Politics

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dbt1949 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:48 pm I don't know how many of you remember a TV show called The Rebel with Nick Adams. It was from the early 60s.
Anyrate the firearm he used was a sawed off lever action rifle.
Ten years ago Henry firearms decided to make a duplicate of it. I of course have one. They got around the short barreled naming by calling it a pistol.

Enlarge Image
Not just shortening and calling it a pistol. It doesn't have a shoulderable stock (by ATF definition) and a barrel under 16". Therefore it's a pistol. They call them "mare's legs".
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Illinois judge rules FOID card 'unconstitutional'

The 2017 case, The People of Illinois vs. Vivian Claudine Brown, comes after Vivian Brown was accused of possessing a firearm without a FOID card.
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Re: Gun Politics

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I agree with the judge here. Until we get around to amending the Constitution, the 2nd Amendment is just as important as any of the others.
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Re: Gun Politics

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CNN
A controversial proposal to allow Texans to carry handguns in public without obtaining a license or training passed the state Senate Wednesday, putting Texas on track to potentially join a handful of others that have passed permitless carry laws this year.

More than a dozen states have introduced measures this year to allow residents to carry guns in public without a license, according to Brady, a gun control advocacy group. Gun safety advocates said it's not unusual for states to introduce such proposals but said the measures appear to be gaining steam.

So far this year, five states -- Iowa, Tennessee, Montana, Utah and Wyoming -- have passed legislation allowing some form of permitless carry. The bills are an indication of how conservative lawmakers and gun lobbyists are making inroads at expanding gun rights at the state level, even as lawmakers in Washington debate more gun restrictions.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by YellowKing »

I don't know why Republicans are so hell-bent on living in some Wild West fantasy land where everybody is shooting one another.

We had a shooting incident at a public park here in the early evening while tons of families and kids were playing on the playground. Fight broke out over a basketball game and people started just shooting at each other. Fortunately nobody was hurt, but it traumatized a bunch of kids.

I just don't understand the mentality of wanting to ensure our kids are potentially exposed to shooting incidents as much as possible.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by coopasonic »

It's a matter of control. They have established a narrative where our country is dangerous and guns are a source of safety. They also play into the power fantasy. Of course, with our lack of mental health support and rampant poverty, a lot of places in our country are dangerous. The problem of course is that guns are generally a trigger for escalation rather than a source of safety. But the real reasons are 100% political.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by malchior »

It like a lot of outrage-culture GOP legislation is performance art policy where the outcomes don't matter.
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Re: Gun Politics

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It's purely political theater to get on the "right" side of "Constitutional Carry".


Texas is a shall-issue state and currently has a 4 hour class and $40 fee requirement for a carry permit. Long guns don't require any permit to be open carried.

I don't see anything egregious about that but GOP gonna GOP.
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Re: Gun Politics

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And I just got my license to carry. I want a refund.
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Re: Gun Politics

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Image
Spoiler:
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Isgrimnur »


Spoiler:
BREAKING: Constitutional carry bill PASSES Texas Senate 17-13, heads to governor who promises to sign it. #HB1927 #txlege
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Re: Gun Politics

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I'm all for gun rights, but this is dumb. This is pure pander - Texas has a lot of problems, but gun access isn't one of them.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Little Raven wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 11:52 pm I'm all for gun rights, but this is dumb. This is pure pander - Texas has a lot of problems, but gun access isn't one of them.
Agree. This can only go poorly for pro-gun forces.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Smoove_B »

In TX, I'd imagine for some it's now easier to get a gun than to vote. Seems reasonable.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Smoove_B wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 10:11 am In TX, I'd imagine for some it's now easier to get a gun than to vote. Seems reasonable.
Getting a gun doesn't change with this. It was always easier to get a gun. This just makes carrying concealed as easy as getting a gun.
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Re: Gun Politics

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Smoove_B wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 10:11 am In TX, I'd imagine for some it's now easier to get a gun than to vote. Seems reasonable.
No. This law doesn’t change how difficult it is to GET a gun, it changes how you can CARRY a gun. Granted, getting a gun is not particularly difficult in Texas, but assuming you want to do everything legal, it’s definitely more difficult than voting. (Of course, voting isn’t all that hard, either)
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Smoove_B »

Ok, easier to get and then carry a gun around in TX than to vote.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Unagi »

Smoove_B wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 12:13 pm Ok, easier to get and then carry a gun around in TX than to vote.
It’s easier to kill someone in a brief moment of rage/despair/dispute/ or mental breakdown than it is to deliberately vote for the person that you simply feel best represents you.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Isgrimnur »

And not everyone should be permitted to do the latter. /s
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