Political Randomness

[Carpet_pissr]

I'm really, really tired of cancel culture.

Same, but not in reference to this case (which I know nothing about). I think it's another case of the left's shift too far in one direction in trying to correct for past abuses. When taken too far, it's dangerous, irresponsible and obnoxious, and also, one of my pet peaves, it sullies liberal ideology as a whole. Anything that gives the right (legitimate) ammo in their war against liberalism enrages me. This is one of those things.

I think most agree that MeToo was long overdue, and there were far too many women who were afraid or embarrassed to tell their personal stories of sexual assault. As a nation/people/civ, we needed to hear those stories, and to see how prevalant the issue was/is in our society. It woke up a lot of us. It had the potential to BETTER us, I think, as a society. But per usual, something that started out noble, needed and dare I say "good", went too far, and probably in many ways canceled the positives brought about when the movement started.

The latest craze seems to be calling everyone a racist. I totally understand WHY, with the rise of Trump and populism, but again, it's hurting the initial, needed, GOOD that BLM and kneeling NFL'ers, etc, started. A noble, worthy, long overdue reckoning is/has gone too far, and is providing ammo to those who oppose these ideas.

[malchior]

I'm really, really tired of cancel culture.

Same, but not in reference to this case (which I know nothing about). I think it's another case of the left's shift too far in one direction in trying to correct for past abuses. When taken too far, it's dangerous, irresponsible and obnoxious, and also, one of my pet peaves, it sullies liberal ideology as a whole. Anything that gives the right (legitimate) ammo in their war against liberalism enrages me. This is one of those things.

I've got just the right thread fired up this morning to talk about this.

Seriously though the article in the opening of that thread brings that into a single framework and ties it all together. It's really an astonishingly elegant argument. I'm going to be thinking about it for weeks.

[Carpet_pissr]

Well that's creepy.

[Isgrimnur]

SD AG Ravensborg

[malchior]

He might end up getting impeached. Oh no. What will this rich & clearly powerful guy do now that he got away with hit and run murder?

[Freyland]

He might end up getting impeached. Oh no. What will this rich & clearly powerful guy do now that he got away with hit and run murder?

I'm assuming run for President, or at least the Governor of Florida.

[Blackhawk]

So, I'm trying to understand what's happening lately. Remember, I'm not particularly sophisticated when it comes to my understanding of politics.

Between Obama's blocked Supreme Court nominee, Trump, GOP obstructionism in congress, the way the red states are falling into line, the way the election was handled, the open voter suppression, the interference with the census and the gerrymandering that will result, the way states are setting things up to question precedent in order to give the Supreme Court the opportunity to reset precedent to GOP standards... it's like a perfect storm. Hell, the GoP has managed to run the country and make the decisions while their opponents have a trifecta.

Is it just the GOP taking advantage of openings and riding the chaos? Is this just political whack-a-mole and they're getting the high score? Or is it coordinated? If it's coordinated, they've done one hell of a job of it. It's like they've convinced the country to overthrow itself. I mean, is someone behind the scenes coordinating between the GOP congressional leaders and the Supreme Court, with the court saying, "You set 'em up, we'll knock 'em down", and the coordinator (Mitch?) then calling Texas and suggesting, "Now is the time to push an over-the-top abortion bill, and don't worry about the constitutionality - we'll take care of that."

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but the pieces are just falling into place so well that I have to wonder. If not, they couldn't have planned it better.

[Smoove_B]

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but the pieces are just falling into place so well that I have to wonder. If not, they couldn't have planned it better.

Read this Twitter thread (I know, I know) that was shared yesterday by a woman running for Congress in Missouri:

I launched my campaign for Congress in 2019.

I was harassed. My home was vandalized, multiple times. I received violent threats. My car was followed by active Klan, with my 2 year old in the car.

We fought a righteous fight out here.

And the Dems in DC don’t give a damn.

It was mainly this that stuck with me:

And Democrats in Washington, DC who have a seat at the table—they’re playing a dangerous game.

They’re betting our entire country’s future on this notion that if they don’t rock the boat too much, things will calm down, and they can get re-elected and do more@next time.

I am with you in the idea that there seems to be a coordinated, directed push happening on multiple fronts right now. And there really seems to be a lot of people just shrugging their shoulders.

[LawBeefaroni]

It's coordinated in that the methods and end goal are shared. It's not a single individual or group running things but it is a network of varied groups pushing in the same direction.


And the Dems are giving it away. Weak, treacherous cowards praying for status quo.

[malchior]

It's coordinated in that the methods and end goal are shared. It's not a single individual or group running things but it is a network of varied groups pushing in the same direction.

Exactly and the networks are aligned on their attack. They openly told us this years ago. Some of it is dark money but most of it isn't even dark money. It's in plain sight but everyone simply disbelieved it could happen here.

And the Dems are giving it away. Weak, treacherous cowards praying for status quo.

This is how I feel. Also I can't help but notice that they're standing at an adjacent trough feeding like pigs too. It isn't the exact same but they've been happy enough to let things slip so they can take advantage of the largesse too.

[Blackhawk]

I've gotten there, too. I made it through Trump with 'work within the system' and 'avoid using their underhanded tactics', but that's out the window now. There is no other defense. Now my thoughts are more along the lines of, 'Use whatever loopholes and exploits you need to, save the country, and then go back afterwards and close the loopholes.'

There is, of course, a red zone between 'save the country' and 'close the loopholes' that is going to be awfully tempting to human nature.

[Holman]

One huge problem is that the Dem leadership is very, very elderly. And elderly people see the world as it was when they were in their prime.

Pelosi and Schumer are capable of being savvy when they have a clear advantage, but I think they're literally incapable of perceiving how evil the GOP and right-wing national culture has become.

[YellowKing]

Not to mention it's hard to see the evil when you're all hanging out in the same social circles. They're in a different sort of bubble than we are, and it's one that probably greatly distorts the real-world ramifications of what's going on.

[Kraken]

It's coordinated in that the methods and end goal are shared. It's not a single individual or group running things but it is a network of varied groups pushing in the same direction.

That's easy to do when their whole agenda is to block progress. The GOP has no legislative agenda, whereas the Dems want to renew every aspect of the country and economy.

[Carpet_pissr]

So, I'm trying to understand what's happening lately. Remember, I'm not particularly sophisticated when it comes to my understanding of politics

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but the pieces are just falling into place so well that I have to wonder. If not, they couldn't have planned it better.

Impossible to know, but I suspect it’s a combo of big money (elite, top .5% type money, think ‘Koch’ money), and the ‘system’ being worn down around the edges over the past decade or so.

Loopholes, as mentioned, being found, exploited, and repeated by others so it becomes a norm (or at least no longer shocking, flagged, or frowned upon).

I also suspect a general consensus and fear among right leaning elites that if they didn’t do Something (TM), ‘They’ would lose the country to an increasingly diverse America.

That could not happen, and I think rules, norms and behaviors were changed to avoid it or delay it at any cost.

But I suspect it was mostly money. So much money. (Which of course buys influence/power, whatever you want to call it).

[LawBeefaroni]

It's coordinated in that the methods and end goal are shared. It's not a single individual or group running things but it is a network of varied groups pushing in the same direction.

That's easy to do when their whole agenda is to block progress. The GOP has no legislative agenda, whereas the Dems want to renew every aspect of the country and economy.

That's what Dem leadership thinks too, and it's wrong. Their goal isn't merely to block progress. That would just lead to status quo. Their goal is to seize complete control of the country.

[malchior]

It's coordinated in that the methods and end goal are shared. It's not a single individual or group running things but it is a network of varied groups pushing in the same direction.

That's easy to do when their whole agenda is to block progress. The GOP has no legislative agenda, whereas the Dems want to renew every aspect of the country and economy.

That's what Dem leadership thinks too, and it's wrong. Their goal isn't merely to block progress. That would just lead to status quo. Their goal is to seize complete control of the country.

It's crazy that people don't see this. The Democrats are almost intentionally incompetent. And they have a weird synergistic political strategy with the GOP. The Democrats almost entirely depend on reacting. They are never prepared for the next predictable attack. Is that because they want that or because they are just that bad? I don't know anymore.

The case example of this is the Texas law. They installed Barrett. Every Red state was crafting new legislation to challenge Roe openly. What happens when that comes together from the Democratic side? Absolutely nothing. The Democrats often never have any cogent effective response. It's just chaos and screaming at the top of their lungs. They loudly say, "make sure we vote for them next time!"

So then maybe they win an election, they immediately form a circular firing squad, and get little done to protect the nation. They never have any plan to deal with what the GOP says or does. It is like watching a basketball game where every pass is telegraphed by a team yet the defense never tries to intercept the ball. Heck the Democrats are sometime throwing the ball in their own net!

[El Guapo]

FWIW I think a lot of this is due to a mix of the following factors:

(1) because of the structure of the Senate Democrats need the consent of people like Manchin and Sinema to pass any legislation, and Democratic leadership lacks good options to pressure Manchin (who has to run in a R + 35 state);
(2) Democrats speak to their base through independent media which is sometimes critical of them, while Republicans speak to their base through Fox News and conservative radio which are overtly political;
(3) the short term risks and costs of aggressive action probably seem more front of mind to Democratic leadership then the medium to long-term risks and costs of inaction;
(4) Democratic leadership has been slow to adjust to changing political rules and norms;

[El Guapo]

I also can't help but think that a lot of this is that Democratic leadership (and our entire political class) is excessively talking to and responsive to the interests of the wealthy. And while a lot of wealthy people share the same democratic norms as most of the non-Trump base, it's ultimately not their skin in the game if the United States gets Orbanized - ultimately they'll make do and just withdraw from anything political or contrary to the wishes of GOP leadership.

[Zarathud]

It's coordinated in that the methods and end goal are shared. It's not a single individual or group running things but it is a network of varied groups pushing in the same direction.


And the Dems are giving it away. Weak, treacherous cowards praying for status quo.

There is definitely coordination by issue. For judges, it’s the Federalist Society. ALEC has been coordinating legislation. Heritage Action for America has been working on state voting laws. The religious right has its own organizations and Netflix has a good documentary on the role of the National Prayer Breakfast. The Koch brothers and others started networks 50 years ago to broadly pave the way, including to get Reagan elected.

[Zarathud]

There’s a reason Mitch McConnell personally killed campaign finance reform — until recently, the money benefitted Republicans and their networks.

[Daehawk]

Georgia's lieutenant governor declares independence from Trump

Georgia’s Republican lieutenant governor is declaring independence from Donald Trump in a new book, and urging other Republicans to follow.

“I will not worship him,” Duncan writes. “I will not excuse his excesses. I won’t believe his lies. I won’t mimic his tone. I won’t disingenuously pander to voters he’s misinformed. And I certainly won’t mislead my constituents because he wants me to.”

He recounts a visit with Trump in a preelection ride in a motorcade, where he found him well-informed about Georgia issues. He says he believes Trump could have won reelection in 2020 by running on his record instead of airing grievances. But Duncan concludes that Trump’s post-election behavior showed the former president was so flawed that he’s glad he lost.

“Looking back, perhaps his flaws and consequent loss were our saving grace,” Duncan writes. “We discovered that all the policy wins in the world couldn’t compensate for other shortcomings.”

[Kurth]

I read that @LynzforCongress thread . . . I’m not so sure I’m buying what she’s selling. She talks about anger at the D.C. dems for not taking more aggressive action, and she confidently states that we’re “not lacking for options,” but she doesn’t really say much — at least not in that thread — about what the options are she’s endorsing. I’m not a big fan of Pelosi/Schumer and are old guard Dem leadership by any means. We need new, young blood in there. But that thread made her sound a little like the guy on his lawn raising his fists at the storm clouds.

This reply kind of summed it up for me:



Also, malchior, you point to the current shit show in TX over abortion and the Dems inability to block Barrett, but I’m not sure what their option was there. What were they supposed to do at that point?

Again, it seems to me that some of this is undoubtedly a lack of will, but this is also about there not being many good options.

[malchior]

Also, malchior, you point to the current shit show in TX over abortion and the Dems inability to block Barrett, but I’m not sure what their option was there. What were they supposed to do at that point?

They couldn't block Barrett. My real issue with them is that they were unprepared for the consequences. She was sat last year. The red machine immediately started churning out demo legislation to try to take a run at Roe. Texas passed the law and Abbott signed it May 19th. YESTERDAY Biden is talking about how he is ordering his team to look at it the issue and work up a response. That is what is frustrating to me. This isn't a sudden collapse of a government. They knew this was coming and they got caught out *again*. Their constituents were crying out for help and they basically said...oops...didn't think this would happen. Guess we'll investigate. And people are really starting to finally see that maybe the Democrats are just that hapless. It's always the dog ate my homework. There is a real case that they are politically negligent.

Again, it seems to me that some of this is undoubtedly a lack of will, but this is also about there not being many good options.

That's true but the Republicans always seem to manage to get their agenda implemented don't they? I'm not even a fan of all the policies the Democrats are chasing but I think I'm amongst people who were watching to see if they can get something done. I mean Biden and this Congress were elected on this platform and much of this agenda. That said, the jury is still out but we badly need some signs that the Democrats aren't useless. And unfortunately across multiple fronts they're looking useless. In the end, the issue is that they're always flatfooted and ten steps behind the Republicans. And it's becoming painfully obvious that Biden and the Democratic Congressional team just aren't up to managing these crises. We're seeing no urgency. No acknowledgement of the danger. If I thought it should be their goal was to inspire despair I'd be giving them high marks.

[Smoove_B]

There is a real case that they are politically negligent.

Another thing: Not having a plan for this day, from either the WH or Congress, only "looking into federal options" or "planning to bring a bill to the floor" now, is ITSELF malpractice.

Texas passed this law in MAY. Mississippi has it's own Roe killing law in front of SCOTUS NOW

[Blackhawk]

Inspired by the Rent Is Too Damn High Party, I suggest the foundation of the Get Off Our Asses Party.

The platform is the following:

Get off our asses
People matter more than money
Don't be dicks
Facts beat happy lies

They will be, hands down, more effective at governing than either of the parties slap-fighting right now (or rather, one party slap fighting, the other lying in the fetal position for protection from the slaps.)

[malchior]

They will be, hands down, more effective at governing than either of the parties slap-fighting right now (or rather, one party slap fighting, the other lying in the fetal position for protection from the slaps.)

I think more accurately one party is being paid by the slap. And the other to take the slaps.

[Drazzil]

Also, malchior, you point to the current shit show in TX over abortion and the Dems inability to block Barrett, but I’m not sure what their option was there. What were they supposed to do at that point?

They couldn't block Barrett. My real issue with them is that they were unprepared for the consequences. She was sat last year. The red machine immediately started churning out demo legislation to try to take a run at Roe. Texas passed the law and Abbott signed it May 19th. YESTERDAY Biden is talking about how he is ordering his team to look at it the issue and work up a response. That is what is frustrating to me. This isn't a sudden collapse of a government. They knew this was coming and they got caught out *again*. Their constituents were crying out for help and they basically said...oops...didn't think this would happen. Guess we'll investigate. And people are really starting to finally see that maybe the Democrats are just that hapless. It's always the dog ate my homework. There is a real case that they are politically negligent.

Again, it seems to me that some of this is undoubtedly a lack of will, but this is also about there not being many good options.

That's true but the Republicans always seem to manage to get their agenda implemented don't they? I'm not even a fan of all the policies the Democrats are chasing but I think I'm amongst people who were watching to see if they can get something done. I mean Biden and this Congress were elected on this platform and much of this agenda. That said, the jury is still out but we badly need some signs that the Democrats aren't useless. And unfortunately across multiple fronts they're looking useless. In the end, the issue is that they're always flatfooted and ten steps behind the Republicans. And it's becoming painfully obvious that Biden and the Democratic Congressional team just aren't up to managing these crises. We're seeing no urgency. No acknowledgement of the danger. If I thought it should be their goal was to inspire despair I'd be giving them high marks.

So, I'm trying to understand what's happening lately. Remember, I'm not particularly sophisticated when it comes to my understanding of politics.

Between Obama's blocked Supreme Court nominee, Trump, GOP obstructionism in congress, the way the red states are falling into line, the way the election was handled, the open voter suppression, the interference with the census and the gerrymandering that will result, the way states are setting things up to question precedent in order to give the Supreme Court the opportunity to reset precedent to GOP standards... it's like a perfect storm. Hell, the GoP has managed to run the country and make the decisions while their opponents have a trifecta.

Is it just the GOP taking advantage of openings and riding the chaos? Is this just political whack-a-mole and they're getting the high score? Or is it coordinated? If it's coordinated, they've done one hell of a job of it. It's like they've convinced the country to overthrow itself. I mean, is someone behind the scenes coordinating between the GOP congressional leaders and the Supreme Court, with the court saying, "You set 'em up, we'll knock 'em down", and the coordinator (Mitch?) then calling Texas and suggesting, "Now is the time to push an over-the-top abortion bill, and don't worry about the constitutionality - we'll take care of that."

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but the pieces are just falling into place so well that I have to wonder. If not, they couldn't have planned it better.

And the Democrats are in cahoots with the Republicans so that they get cushy jobs when the GOP gets their Reichstag moment. Its all political Kabuki and this is why I say the only way this changes is if the left gets organized and starts burning something down besides their own neighborhoods.

[LawBeefaroni]

Inspired by the Rent Is Too Damn High Party, I suggest the foundation of the Get Off Our Asses Party.

The platform is the following:

Get off our asses

[Zarathud]

Me and the Farmer….

[malchior]

Read the comments and weep. Tons of people saying how this is good and that Lowes is big so it's no big deal. This country is not healthy.

[Isgrimnur]

Employees look on and are unable to do anything.

Employees should look on and not attempt to intervene. Their lives and safety are not worth their employer's merchandise. If the corporation wants someone to intervene, they should hire some armed security.

[malchior]

Things changed drastically since I was in high school. I had to do Loss Prevention shifts at my K-mart job and the Head of LP was a madman. He tackled people, scrapped with them, and basically ignored the policy. The manager loved him. It was dumb but also didnt happen too often. People would stop and surrender 99% of the time when caught. These people obviously treated this like a smash and grab scheme with super low risk of being caught or injured.

[Isgrimnur]

Workers compensation is a hell of a lot more expensive than some mulch and hoses.

[stessier]

My father was a manager at both Lowes and Home Depot. In both cases, they were taught not to intervene, just get car info if they were able. Doing more got them in trouble.

[Jaymann]

My father was a manager at both Lowes and Home Depot. In both cases, they were taught not to intervene, just get car info if they were able. Doing more got them in trouble.

Pro tip: Steal a license plate before you raid a Lowes.

[YellowKing]

When I was in high school I was working at a grocery store and we had a shoplifter run out with a couple of steaks. My manager told me to go after the guy (I was 16, weighed 130 pounds, the shoplifter was a grown adult). I refused. A fellow co-worker ran after him instead.

He comes back a minute or two later, blood pouring from his nose. The shoplifter had turned around and just punched him right in the face, nearly breaking his nose.

Yeah, no amount of merchandise is worth an employee getting injured or killed.

[Carpet_pissr]

I was in a Lowe's last summer and saw this shady looking kid (maybe early 20's?) moving suspiciously around the DeWalt section (suspiciously enough that made me notice him at least). I started to ask one of the employees a question, and as we were talking, I saw his eyes move behind me, and he said (to himself) "He's going to try to walk out with that". I turned around, and saw the kid with a cartful of huge DeWalt boxes, fast-walking/pushing the cart to the exit. Employee runs to get his manager, and the manager walks after the guy, but does nothing. I guess he took his license number (and called the cops). Employee told me they were specifically told not to engage (as mentioned).

I guess that policy gets around in the community that likes power tools, but prefers not to pay for them.

I mean, if you're morally down with that, it seems to be as easy as wearing a hat at least, and maybe sunglasses or glasses (this kid fooslishly wore neither), removing your license plate before turning into Lowe's, and load up! If you know in advance that no one will stop you...

[Blackhawk]

I went after people like that for a living for quite a while. I became very familiar with the laws involved.

For example, if you chase the people and they fall and injure themselves, you and the company can end up paying for it. And if they run into traffic to get away from you and a car swerves to avoid them and ends up in oncoming traffic? You and the company are about to have a really, really bad day.

And the second you lay one hand on them, I really hope you are up to date on both citizen's arrest and use of force laws, or you may spend more time in prison than they do. Perform a citizen's arrest wrong? It could be tried as kidnapping.

The store is insured for those losses. An injured employee costs them more than a trunk full of their finest products. And a liability suit could cost more than the contents of the store.

So watch. Record. Take notes. Hold the door for them if they ask you to. Leave dealing with them to professionals.

I would have watched them, too.

[Carpet_pissr]

For example, if you chase the people and they fall and injure themselves, you and the company can end up paying for it.

I may be misremembering this, but there was a Best Buy near the house where I grew up. Apparently a shoplifter was tackled by an employee on his way out the door with some stolen goods. This was a while ago...at least 10 years (maybe 15 or 20). As a result of being tackled, shoplifter fell head first into what were at the time, concrete cylindrical yellow barriers right in front of the entrance. Died on the scene. BB was held liable, paid out the nose for it, and I believe that case prompted the whole company to change their policy (and also to remove the concrete barriers, and use plastic instead).