Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

[Octavious]

I feel like 90% if what he does wouldn't stand up in court, but as long as it makes a good headline mission accomplished. Yell about freedom and then tell people exactly how they must think and be taught. Seems legit.

[Skinypupy]

I feel like 90% if what he does wouldn't stand up in court, but as long as it makes a good headline mission accomplished. Yell about freedom and then tell people exactly how they must think and be taught. Seems legit.

Yeah, this feels like something that will (in a sane world) immediately be struck down in court, with Florida taxpayers forking out a few million to defend it.

Best case scenario, it's a campaign ad for DeSantis' POTUS run. At worst, it somehow sticks.

[malchior]

Definitely. What's the saying? You can't get fascism and kleptocratic generational wealth without breaking a few eggs.

[Holman]

I feel like 90% if what he does wouldn't stand up in court, but as long as it makes a good headline mission accomplished. Yell about freedom and then tell people exactly how they must think and be taught. Seems legit.

It's also the gift that keeps on giving, because you can be sure that enough conservative students will provide the politically useful answer.

[Skinypupy]

I'd love to post the story on social media, replacing "DeSantis" with "Newsom" and "Florida" with "California".

Then sit back and watch conservative's heads collectively explode with OUTRAGE.

[malchior]

WTF. This is nuts.

[Little Raven]

A man is not rich unless he can raise an army at his own expense.

[Smoove_B]

I guess the GOP didn't fully circulate the memo about the whole yellow star thing:

A Washington state lawmaker critical of COVID-19 vaccine mandates wore a yellow Star of David at a speech over the weekend — a symbol the Nazis forced Jews to wear during the Holocaust.

State Rep. Jim Walsh, R-Aberdeen, had the star affixed to his pink shirt during a speech to conservative activists at a Lacey church basketball gym on Saturday.

“It’s an echo from history,” Walsh wrote on a Facebook page where a video of the event was posted. “In the current context, we’re all Jews.”

As an added bonus and to make sure he hits all the talking points:

“I won’t say publicly whether I am vaccinated or not,” Walsh said, likening his stance to the film “Spartacus,” in which former slaves, under threat of crucifixion, refuse to identify the title character to a Roman general.

Walsh also likened any disparate treatment of unvaccinated people to the Supreme Court’s 1896 decision in Plessy v. Ferguson, which upheld “separate but equal” racial segregation laws targeting African Americans.

Are we sure this isn't Andy Kaufman?

[$iljanus]

I guess the GOP didn't fully circulate the memo about the whole yellow star thing:

A Washington state lawmaker critical of COVID-19 vaccine mandates wore a yellow Star of David at a speech over the weekend — a symbol the Nazis forced Jews to wear during the Holocaust.

State Rep. Jim Walsh, R-Aberdeen, had the star affixed to his pink shirt during a speech to conservative activists at a Lacey church basketball gym on Saturday.

“It’s an echo from history,” Walsh wrote on a Facebook page where a video of the event was posted. “In the current context, we’re all Jews.”

I suppose, except for the part where your property is taken and you are shipped in rail cars to death camps. But yeah, we’re “all Jews”

[Skinypupy]

Every new "OUTRAGE!" just feels like conservative Mad Libs these days.

"The left's war on _____________ (noun) is doing ____________(adjective) ____________ (noun, something negative) to Conservative ______________ (noun). I have introduced the ___________ (5 random letters) Act to stop the liberal ____________ (verb) on our ______________ (noun)!"

The Left’s War on Meat is being waged at the expense of America’s hardworking farmers and producers.

My TASTEE Act would ensure federal agencies can’t ban meat and other agriculture products in our government dining halls.

Side note: We went to war against...meat? Why did no one tell me??

[Blackhawk]

Sweeping change! (in government dining halls.)

[Holman]

People choosing to avoid meat is "War on Meat!!" because Republicans are the party of free choice.

But this is the standard playbook right now. Everything must be exaggerated to keep conservatives in a state of aggrieved victimhood.

[Blackhawk]

The war on meat has a lot to do with the pushback against beef for health reasons, animal welfare issues, and - most of all - the environmental impact. Cattle alone are responsible for something like 10% of all greenhouse gasses, and there has been a push to turn away from beef. That's included pushing for regulations relating to feed (so the cows belch less), choosing alternative meats, and so forth.


A report came out last year showing the benefits of cutting beef intake by 90%. The right-wing media immediately started claiming that Biden's climate plan included beef rationing toward that goal (it never did.) It became another far-right conspiracy that it means that the left is secretly planning to ban beef and force the nation to become vegan.

[malchior]

Contrast that to the CPAC in Florida earlier this year where DeSantis ran much closer to Trump. Of note, Noem fell off the radar despite the gimmicky border deployment and Pompeo is absent. Everyone is a flash in the pan ahead consumed by the burning hatred of Trumpism.

A poll of grassroots conservative advocates gathered in Orlando Sunday had Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis favored to win the GOP presidential nomination in 2024 if former President Donald Trump decides not to run again.

DeSantis received 43% of the vote among those gathered for the Conservative Political Action Conference, or CPAC, the biggest event of the year in conservative politics. The Florida governor was well in front of South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem, who came in second with 11% support, and Donald Trump Jr., who was in third place with 8% support. Former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz both were at 7% in the poll.

DeSantis and Noem have attracted national attention for making their states some of the least restrictive in the nation during the coronavirus pandemic. That approach has been cheered by many conservatives and has increased the 2024 buzz surrounding both governors.

[Smoove_B]

I wanted to look for some historical data for comparison - the 2015 straw poll:

Sen. Rand Paul won the Conservative Political Action Conference straw poll for the third year in a row on Saturday, with 25.7% of the vote, event organizers announced Saturday at the National Harbor, Maryland, Confab.

But the biggest winner of the straw poll was perhaps Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, who catapulted from fifth last year to second place this year and came in just four points behind Paul, with 21.4% support. He delivered one of the conference’s best-received speeches, laying out his vision for the economy and drawing enthusiastic applause that overshadowed a tone-deaf answer he gave on foreign policy.

70%? Cult.

[Isgrimnur]

Yahoo

Caitlyn Jenner was harassed and hit with transphobic abuse while attending the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) in Dallas.

A heckler filmed himself approaching the former reality TV star, who is running for governor of California, and repeatedly deadnaming her and calling her a "sick freak."

[malchior]

I wanted to look for some historical data for comparison - the 2015 straw poll:

Sen. Rand Paul won the Conservative Political Action Conference straw poll for the third year in a row on Saturday, with 25.7% of the vote, event organizers announced Saturday at the National Harbor, Maryland, Confab.

But the biggest winner of the straw poll was perhaps Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, who catapulted from fifth last year to second place this year and came in just four points behind Paul, with 21.4% support. He delivered one of the conference’s best-received speeches, laying out his vision for the economy and drawing enthusiastic applause that overshadowed a tone-deaf answer he gave on foreign policy.

70%? Cult.

Quite a constrast, right? That fragmented 2015 field enabled the clown car primary shit show that started this existential nightmare.

[coopasonic]

Quite a constrast, right? That fragmented 2015 field enabled the clown car primary shit show that started this existential nightmare.

Good news. It isn't fragmented anymore!


Uhhh... yay?

[Blackhawk]

Curiosity: Does the GOP (as in the officials, not the voters) actually want more years of Trump? Or are they quietly hoping he has a heart attack before 2024?

[malchior]

Curiosity: Does the GOP (as in the officials, not the voters) actually want more years of Trump? Or are they quietly hoping he has a heart attack before 2024?

I think it varies a lot. A GOP leader in the form of a Mitch McConnell would love for him to drop dead or become irrelevant at the very least because he knows Trump is too big a risk for the GOP. A DeSantis wants him to drop dead so he can fulfill his ambitions. And there are plenty of other takes as well.

Do you have enough self-awareness to know you can't grab the big ring? You want to cozy up to Trump and its easy. Just suck up to him because he is a black hole of ego. All you have to do is nod along. He'll especially love you if you are good *but not better than him* on tv, etc.

Are you a backbencher or newbie who wants to raise up their profile? Start saying crazy Trumpist gibberish but when really pressed back off to a normalish but not contrary to Trump stance. You might very well up your profile.

Me? First off fuck the GOP. DIAF but I'm with Mitch. The world would be much, much safer if Trump would take a dirt nap.

[Blackhawk]

That was along the lines of my thoughts. For those actually interested in power, Trump served a purpose. He broke the norms and lowered the bar in such a way that others can do things they couldn't get away with before (or at least do them far more effectively and efficiently rather than having to sneak around.) He made their base fanatical enough to elect them in the face of blatant misdeeds.

He's served his purpose, and he's more a liability to that type of politician than a boon (mostly because of how unpredictable he is - if Mitch, for example, were to piss him off, he could turn the base against Mitch in 280 characters.)

[Kraken]

Yeah, I hope the GOP goes into the midterms with nothing but more derp. Voters already rejected trumpism once, and it's not like it's gaining popularity beyond its rabid fanbase...whose determination to embrace covid for another year will only feed their steadily declining numbers. I know history favors the Republicans, and they're certainly working to stack the deck everywhere. But if voters see some major Biden policy successes, a healthy economy, some prosecutions of insurrectionists and trump himself, and a pandemic held in check, while the Republicans have nothing but the Big Lie and cultural grievances, Democrats could beat expectations. Nobody except the Republican base looks back on his administration as the good old days. The longer trump hogs the megaphone, the better I like the Dems' chances.

[malchior]

There is no space for the truth or honor in the GOP.

A growing group of rank-and-file House Republicans wants House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and GOP leadership to punish Reps. Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for accepting a position from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to serve on the select committee investigating the January 6 insurrection.

The push to seek punishment rose to a new level on Sunday, after Pelosi announced that Kinzinger had accepted her invitation to join the committee. Initially, most rank-and-file Republicans were content to let Cheney serve without much of a fight, but Kinzinger's addition has changed the conversation and has put a new level of pressure on McCarthy.

While the loudest cries have come from members of the hard-right Freedom Caucus, sources say that the sentiment has started to spread beyond the hard-line crew.

"There's a lot," said one GOP member about the push to have the pair removed from their other committees. "Supporting Pelosi's unprecedented move to reject McCarthy's picks was a bridge too far."

Pelosi rejected two of McCathy's choices last week -- Reps. Jim Banks of Indiana and Jim Jordan of Ohio -- which prompted the GOP leader to withdraw all five of his picks.
Rep. Scott Perry, a Freedom Caucus member, publicly called on Conference Chair Elise Stefanik to call a special GOP conference meeting to "address appropriate measures" related to Pelosi booting two of McCarthy's chosen picks from the committee. Some members specifically want McCarthy and Stefanik to push for a vote of GOP members to strip Cheney and Kinzinger, who both voted to impeach former President Donald Trump earlier this year, from their other committee assignments. Stefanik's office did not respond to a request for comment on Perry's desire for a conference meeting.

[malchior]

More danger in the House ahead when you listen to the Republican frothing with anger about Pelosi vetoing Gym Jordan and Banks. This fits into the macro pattern of the last 20 years. The GOP acts outrageously (e.g., blocking everything, hostage taking, trying to overthrow a democratic election) and then use the Democratic response to justify more outrageous acts. This democracy is really looking like a chicken with its head cut off.

CNN

The relationship between House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy was never very warm. Now it's in the downright gutter.

After a whiplash week of power plays between the two party leaders over the January 6 select committee, tensions are at an all-time high between the California lawmakers, and there are zero signs of that simmering down anytime soon -- with both lambasting each other publicly and erupting at each other privately.
In a heated phone call last week, Pelosi informed McCarthy that she would reject two of his selections to the special House committee investigating the January 6 attack. Voices were raised, a source with knowledge of the matter said, and McCarthy protested, hinting the decision could come back to haunt her.
"What you're doing is unprecedented," McCarthy told Pelosi, according to a second source familiar with the call.
Publicly, Pelosi agreed.

"The unprecedented nature of January 6th demands this unprecedented decision," Pelosi said, contending that McCarthy's selections of GOP Reps. Jim Banks of Indiana and Jim Jordan of Ohio would have undercut the integrity of the probe.

...

McCarthy, meanwhile, has ramped up his public attacks on Pelosi in pointedly personal terms after she rejected Jordan and Banks, calling her a "lame duck speaker" and accusing her of destroying the institution. And the GOP leader is now facing pressure from his right flank to take a symbolic — though doomed-to-fail — shot at Pelosi with a "motion to vacate the speaker's chair," which wouldn't succeed but would represent a dramatic escalation of the McCarthy-Pelosi feud.

At this point, however, it's unlikely that McCarthy will pursue such a move, according to GOP sources. But Republicans are already privately plotting other ways to seek revenge if they win back the majority: coming after Democratic committee assignments and taking advantage of what the GOP has dubbed a new Pelosi-set precedent, according to multiple GOP lawmakers and aides.

Top on the GOP's target list: Rep. Eric Swalwell of California, a Pelosi ally who sits on the House Intelligence Committee, and Rep. Ilhan Omar of Minnesota, a member of the progressive "squad" who serves on the Foreign Affairs Committee.

The outright hostility is only adding to the already toxic atmosphere in the House after January 6. And it also doesn't bode well should the party leaders need to work together: Pelosi — who is ruling over a razor-thin majority in the House — may need to lean on McCarthy in the near future to put up some GOP votes for infrastructure, must-pass spending bills or the debt ceiling.

But Pelosi and her top lieutenants believe if they do need Republican support for any bipartisan bill, it will likely be the result of moderates breaking from McCarthy -- rather than the GOP leader working to help pass legislation with the speaker.

When asked to describe McCarthy and Pelosi's relationship, one GOP lawmaker sent a GIF of the fight scene from the movie "Anchorman."
And Rep. Mark Green of Tennessee offered this blunt assessment: "McCarthy has appropriately had enough. All of us had."

[hepcat]

Voters already rejected trumpism once,

Barely

and it's not like it's gaining popularity beyond its rabid fanbase

Which is still dangerously high and quite capable of taking over again.

The longer trump hogs the megaphone, the better I like the Dems' chances.

I don't. Never underestimate how passionately stupid a lot of America can be.

[malchior]

The longer trump hogs the megaphone, the better I like the Dems' chances.

I don't. Never underestimate how passionately stupid a lot of America can be.

There is that and just historical patterns. The President's party has lost seats in the House in 90%+ of the last 100+ years of midterm elections. And the Democrats have a 5 seat edge. Not much margin there. The midterms are almost certainly going to be a wake up call while unfortunately the beginning of another level of descent into the depths of dysfunction. I think we are well past the limit of credibility for the argument that the GOP has gotten too crazy for the mainstream.

[hepcat]

I was vacillating between the hopeful belief that Trump out of office equaled less influence, and my gut feeling he was never going to go away. But the last 4 months of the GOP effectively doing a complete turn around on all the things quite a few of publicly stated on 1/6 has completely discouraged me. Trump owns the GOP...period. The only hope we have is that last cheeseburger or KFC drumstick that will hopefully save our democracy through its sacrifice.

[malchior]

I was vacillating between the hopeful belief that Trump out of office equaled less influence, and my gut feeling he was never going to go away. But the last 4 months of the GOP effectively doing a complete turn around on all the things quite a few of publicly stated on 1/6 has completely discouraged me. Trump owns the GOP...period. The only hope we have is that last cheeseburger or KFC drumstick that will hopefully save our democracy through its sacrifice.

I'd argue they've gone so far off the rails that even Trump keeling over is only going to slow down the madness instead of stop it. The GOP was committed to this course in a milder form for years before he came on the scene. He is mostly accelerating it.

[Jaymann]

As long as Florida Man doesn't keel over he is the only candidate and platform they have. Bad as that is, at least he can be rallied against. Once he is no more they will try to make him a martyr for the new "lost cause."

[hepcat]

I'd like to think that without DJT, more moderate voices within the GOP could/would be able to rise above the Gaetz and Green's of the party. Perhaps it's just wishful thinking, but it seems that the majority of the GOP is directly trying to appease Trump. They have a god and they have the ability for that god to recognize them. Without him, without that recognition, I would hope they would lose some of that need/drive to be loved by him.

And I don't see Donnie Jr., Ivanka or (i laugh even writing this) Eric filling that void should Donnie go bye bye.

[El Guapo]

The longer trump hogs the megaphone, the better I like the Dems' chances.

I don't. Never underestimate how passionately stupid a lot of America can be.

There is that and just historical patterns. The President's party has lost seats in the House in 90%+ of the last 100+ years of midterm elections. And the Democrats have a 5 seat edge. Not much margin there. The midterms are almost certainly going to be a wake up call while unfortunately the beginning of another level of descent into the depths of dysfunction. I think we are well past the limit of credibility for the argument that the GOP has gotten too crazy for the mainstream.

Well, I think it's also that our system has all of these anti-democratic mechanisms built into it, with the icing on top that the Trump coalition is conveniently well distributed to be disproportionately represented in the Electoral College. And that existing gerrymandering at the state level prevents pushback on a lot of the voter restriction efforts.

Even with the mid-term backlash, it would be difficult for the Trumpist coalition to win a fair election. The problem is that they don't really have to.

[malchior]

I get the hope but it strikes me that 20 years ago we had the 'Brooks Brothers Riot' and it isn't hard to connect that to the Capitol Riot but at different scale. Trust in institutions has been massively damaged all around and Trump or not the GOP is reflecting the will of an angry, angry base. There aren't enough moderates in the world to pull this back when 30% or so of the population is cheering this behavior on. I believe the experts who say that the next 5-10 years are potentially going to be some of the worst political instability we've seen short of a 2nd civil war. I also think that the risk of Balkanization is rising as well. We're seeing regional independence talk in greater intensity. Everything points to a political system blowing apart at the seals without any way to cool it down.

[malchior]

The longer trump hogs the megaphone, the better I like the Dems' chances.

I don't. Never underestimate how passionately stupid a lot of America can be.

There is that and just historical patterns. The President's party has lost seats in the House in 90%+ of the last 100+ years of midterm elections. And the Democrats have a 5 seat edge. Not much margin there. The midterms are almost certainly going to be a wake up call while unfortunately the beginning of another level of descent into the depths of dysfunction. I think we are well past the limit of credibility for the argument that the GOP has gotten too crazy for the mainstream.

Well, I think it's also that our system has all of these anti-democratic mechanisms built into it, with the icing on top that the Trump coalition is conveniently well distributed to be disproportionately represented in the Electoral College. And that existing gerrymandering at the state level prevents pushback on a lot of the voter restriction efforts.

Even with the mid-term backlash, it would be difficult for the Trumpist coalition to win a fair election. The problem is that they don't really have to.

Right - all of that is sort of baked in. The 5 seat majority is slim in a year without 3 or 4 seats being chopped out due to gerrymandering. A typical swing is 30 seats against the President's party. Let's say the extremeness cuts that to a 10 seat swing with the gerrymander, they'll still take the house. I more meant that I don't think we can expect 'the middle will hold' type thinking applies anymore in this environment even where we are seeing severe political radicalization in the GOP.

[Jaymann]

So if the Repugnicans take the House, will they immediately file articles of impeachment on Biden?

[hepcat]

We're seeing regional independence talk in greater intensity.

This has always been floated in extreme circles at various times (and the groups floating it are still what I would call extremists). I don't think we're in any danger of this.

[malchior]

We're seeing regional independence talk in greater intensity.

This has always been floated in extreme circles at various times (and the groups floating it are still what I would call extremists). I don't think we're in any danger of this.

It's way louder than it has been in decades. A lot of it is obviously just talk but I read it as an intensity indicator. Internal pressures are rising. It is why I take things this way. There isn't a single indicator really showing us that the political tension is doing anything but rising. And it already saw an attack on our Capitol this year. But by your own definition 66% of southern Republicans are potentially extremists. Things are not alright.

Edit: Replaced brackets below with asterisks due to BB Code issues.

Support for secession is growing among every partisan group in the months following the Jan. 6 riots at the Capitol but particularly among southern Republicans, a new poll found.

Bright Line Watch, in conjunction with YouGov, found that citizen support for their state or region to secede from the U.S. is greatest in the South “where support was already highest (and has the greatest historical precedent).” Overall, 37 percent of respondents indicated a “willingness to secede.”

Support among southern Republicans grew from polling conducted in January, which showed 50 percent were in favor of secession. But the number leapt to 66 percent in June.

“By this summer, we anticipated, political tempers may have cooled — not necessarily as a result of any great reconciliation but perhaps from sheer exhaustion after the relentless drama of Trump,” the group wrote in an analysis of the survey’s findings.

Respondents were asked: “Would you support or oppose *your state* seceding from the United States to join a new union with *list of states in new union*?”

Bright Line Watch constructed five distinct regions that a particular respondent’s state would join and added the relevant states to the question.

Brightline Watch warns that the numbers might be skewed given the complexities of the matter and because the group believes it is an issue that respondents were “very unlikely to have considered carefully.”

[malchior]

So if the Repugnicans take the House, will they immediately file articles of impeachment on Biden?

I don't know if it'd be immediate but I expect they will sometime between the new Congress in late December 2022 to summer 2024. I expect Trump will be demanding it.

[El Guapo]

So if the Repugnicans take the House, will they immediately file articles of impeachment on Biden?

I don't know if it'd be immediate but I expect they will sometime between the new Congress in late December 2022 to summer 2024. I expect Trump will be demanding it.

100%. The only questions are how long they'll wait, and what the impeachment would formally be over. But Trump's been pushing this "I'll be reinstated as President" line, which is yet another one of those "Trump's insane because he's pushing something that obviously can't ever happen" line, only he never stops pushing that stuff. And impeachment and removal is the only mechanism to do what Trump wants, so he'll push it.

[Holman]

Any impeachment of Biden will necessarily be on such a flimsy pretense that it could blow back on the GOP. If it happens, Dems should embrace the trial and testimony aspects of the process and demonstrate what a sham it is.

In any case, it will be impossible for Republicans to have enough senators to convict. The Dems might even make gains in the senate this time.

[malchior]

Any impeachment of Biden will necessarily be on such a flimsy pretense that it could blow back on the GOP. If it happens, Dems should embrace the trial and testimony aspects of the process and demonstrate what a sham it is.

It's possible but evidence is beginning to mount that 'traditional' analyses of our political system don't reliably model or predict outcomes anymore.

In any case, it will be impossible for Republicans to have enough senators to convict. The Dems might even make gains in the senate this time.

Yeah there is no chance of a conviction but that's not the point. It'll be flat out revenge and firing up their base. They'll also position themselves to justify when they try to use their new "legal" powers to overturn elections.