Ford F-150 Lightning

[Zaxxon]

Re: speculative pricing posted prior to launch, I kinda felt the $70K for base model seemed a bit...a LOT high...though as mentioned, luxury trucks these days are definitely a thing, and they regularly cost $50K+ My Dad gets a new F-150 every few years, and almost always the top model. I told him he should consider leasing since you know he's losing his ass on the trade-in.

The low end version is just Ford creating a data point. I don't think there will be any appreciable production of those versions.

The interview with the CEO suggests otherwise. He sees them as commercial fleet vehicles companies will buy for local jobs.

I do think they'll make a significant #, but I also saw that the $40k version is not coming in 2022.

[disarm]

As someone recently shopping for a truck, this seems like a great option for a lot of people. The latest F150 is a solid platform, and this seems to improve on it in a number of ways. If I were looking for a truck to use for my daily commute and occasional hauling/towing across town, I would strongly consider the Lightning.

Unfortunately, it would never work for my needs. I'm looking for something to tow a camper all over the northeast, and no electric truck announced so far is up to the task of towing 7500lbs several hundred miles, into areas without extensively built-out charging networks. I can't imagine trying to haul three kids and a camper 600 miles from home, stopping every 150 miles to recharge for a couple hours. I love the idea of an electric truck, but it's just not practical for a lot of use cases until we have much higher capacity batteries. Maybe some day...

[LawBeefaroni]

Re: speculative pricing posted prior to launch, I kinda felt the $70K for base model seemed a bit...a LOT high...though as mentioned, luxury trucks these days are definitely a thing, and they regularly cost $50K+ My Dad gets a new F-150 every few years, and almost always the top model. I told him he should consider leasing since you know he's losing his ass on the trade-in.

The low end version is just Ford creating a data point. I don't think there will be any appreciable production of those versions.

The interview with the CEO suggests otherwise. He sees them as commercial fleet vehicles companies will buy for local jobs.

True. But I'm talking about consumer, not fleet. Their electric vans will dwarf epickup anyway.

[Carpet_pissr]

Re: speculative pricing posted prior to launch, I kinda felt the $70K for base model seemed a bit...a LOT high...though as mentioned, luxury trucks these days are definitely a thing, and they regularly cost $50K+ My Dad gets a new F-150 every few years, and almost always the top model. I told him he should consider leasing since you know he's losing his ass on the trade-in.

The low end version is just Ford creating a data point. I don't think there will be any appreciable production of those versions.

The interview with the CEO suggests otherwise. He sees them as commercial fleet vehicles companies will buy for local jobs.

I do think they'll make a significant #, but I also saw that the $40k version is not coming in 2022.

Funny, so maybe the $70K wasn't off after all.

Maybe $70K for a truck you can ACTUALLY BUY, vs $40K for one they will in theory sell, IF you can find it (good luck!). That would actually be a pretty suave marketing move, lest they scare the market with "STARTING at $70K", and turning people off immediately. Sure, we have a $40K model, but wheels and seats cost extra!

[LordMortis]

From an earlier quote

The pricing for your vehicle will be finalized at time of order. The entry model starts at $39,974 MSRP (commercial-oriented). More-equipped mid-series (XLT) starts at $52,974 MSRP, offering additional comfort and technology. MSRP starting at $39,974 up to around $90,474.1 This reservation does not guarantee you a specific price point.

I'm guessing the typical model you'd drive off the lot is going to stick you with another $2,500 in options pretty regularly, so I'm ball parking at $55,000. Not wholly expensive for a modern truck (which blows my mind, but the world left me behind in the 2000s)

[Zaxxon]

From an earlier quote

The pricing for your vehicle will be finalized at time of order. The entry model starts at $39,974 MSRP (commercial-oriented). More-equipped mid-series (XLT) starts at $52,974 MSRP, offering additional comfort and technology. MSRP starting at $39,974 up to around $90,474.1 This reservation does not guarantee you a specific price point.

I'm guessing the typical model you'd drive off the lot is going to stick you with another $2,500 in options pretty regularly, so I'm ball parking at $55,000. Not wholly expensive for a modern truck (which blows my mind, but the world left me behind in the 2000s)

That's still the 230-mile range version, though. I'd peg the ASP as probably $65k.

[Zaxxon]

Spec comparison (with a bunch of gaps) both with other EV trucks coming soon and with some other F-150 variants.

[Carpet_pissr]

Spec comparison (with a bunch of gaps) both with other EV trucks coming soon and with some other F-150 variants.

Interesting. If I were looking in this space, I would definitely go for the existing F-150 hybrid (from the second comparo chart in the linked article). From a value and most specs perspective, it looks superior in most ways to the Lightning (unless you want to use the Lightning as a power generator, which seems like a fringe/emergency/wasteful use for now at least).

The hybrid gets 750 miles (combined city / hwy) I also assume you can buy one now, without having the hassle of a waiting list (not sure about that with chip shortage and Ford production mothballing recently)

I would only be interested in the Tesla monster truck (as in Frankenstein, not Big Foot) if I abhorred my neighbors so much that I wanted to make them look at that hideous atrocity every day to punish their eyes. Excepting Señor Q-Anon behind me, who can't even see my driveway.

[LordMortis]

Interesting. If I were looking in this space, I would definitely go for the existing F-150 hybrid (from the second comparo chart in the linked article). From a value and most specs perspective, it looks superior in most ways to the Lightning (unless you want to use the Lightning as a power generator, which seems like a fringe/emergency/wasteful use for now at least).

The hybrid gets 750 miles (combined city / hwy) I also assume you can buy one now, without having the hassle of a waiting list (not sure about that with chip shortage and Ford production mothballing recently)

I was thinking the same thing. I also read earlier that the generator option is available for the Hybrid and the Ford loaned them out during the mass outage in Texas. I can't imagine gasoline is a very efficient source for generator power but in a pinch.

[LawBeefaroni]

If I didn't have to worry about the wife's disapproval (aka fanntasyland), a 4Runner TRD would be my first choice but the F150 Hybrid Powerboost Limited would be a close second.

[Daehawk]

Wonder if they noticed that 4Runner TRD looks like 4Runner TURD?

[Zaxxon]

More on the commercial version.

tl;dr:

$40k for 230 miles range, 7,700 lb tow rating, 426 hp
$50k for 300 miles range, 10,000 lb tow rating, 563 hp

Both will have onboard outlets, though the # and output are subject to additional options packages. Both lose the fancy display of the consumer models, and both include fleet telematics software.

[stessier]

Good video hands on

[Zaxxon]

I like the fact that they've apparently calibrated their range guesstimate for a 1,000-lb load. In a pickup, folks aren't going to want to get a vehicle with 300 miles of range that actually gets 150 when used with any sort of load.

[LordMortis]

I like the fact that they've apparently calibrated their range guesstimate for a 1,000-lb load. In a pickup, folks aren't going to want to get a vehicle with 300 miles of range that actually gets 150 when used with any sort of load.

The weight of these trucks is going to be insane. I think the BEV Hummer is going to be something like 4 tons. The whole scale back on weight for CAFE is gone.

Edit: That's a great walkthrough. It looks like this thing will be a crazy good camping/mobile party machine.

[stessier]

I like the fact that they've apparently calibrated their range guesstimate for a 1,000-lb load. In a pickup, folks aren't going to want to get a vehicle with 300 miles of range that actually gets 150 when used with any sort of load.

Yeah, like he said, it seems like they really thought this one through.

[TheMix]

I like the fact that they've apparently calibrated their range guesstimate for a 1,000-lb load. In a pickup, folks aren't going to want to get a vehicle with 300 miles of range that actually gets 150 when used with any sort of load.

The weight of these trucks is going to be insane. I think the BEV Hummer is going to be something like 4 tons. The whole scale back on weight for CAFE is gone.

Edit: That's a great walkthrough. It looks like this thing will be a crazy good camping/mobile party machine.

He mentioned 6000 lbs at one point. I assumed that was the weight of the vehicle.

[Zaxxon]

The Scalzi compound is getting one.

Nice to see this going over as well as I'd hoped it would. Will be great if Ford actually sells boatloads of these.

[Zaxxon]

I feel like I've been posting every third Munro video lately, but they've had a lot of good EV-related content. Today's installment: F-150 Lightning first look. Lots of positive comments after seeing it in person.

[Paingod]

I'm mostly glad to see so many EV's coming to the market that don't look like they were designed to stand out and call attention to themselves as EV's. I found most of the first EV's incredibly off-putting aesthetically. The new lines coming down the road look a lot more like "real" cars.

[coopasonic]

The latest Motor Trend is calling out the Lightning as the Model T of BEVs and I can't really argue. If it really catches an audience it could do a lot more to normalize BEVs than anything we've seen so far.

[LordMortis]

The 21 minute mark talking about execs in 2019 echos my experience perfectly. Oddly enough, that plus seeing the margin Tesla was getting in carbon credit money was when I made up my mind to buy Tesla. Boy I wish I could have warranted buying more. Seeing TSLA at $250 and reasonable attempts to make cases for $900 had me buying into $600 TSLA greedily. Sitting and listening to the people "in the know" make projections while Musk kept getting bigger and watching the development of Rivian (and to a lesser extent Canoo, Fisker, and Lucid... Oh yeah, and LMC and Nikola though I think they're both on the chopping block...) made me very concerned for the vision of the OEM as I know it, like they have never seen rapid disruption in every other tech field over the last 20 years. They all knew they had to be down to 3 years for concept to car and they all knew they needed to be customer driven but to not see rapidly growing EV market share, especially when Musk made the claim he was going to make them available for $30,000 was a conceit I couldn't believe.

[Jeff V]

$50k for 300 miles range, 10,000 lb tow rating, 563 hp

Is that range WHILE towing 10,000 lbs? Wife is a closet redneck and wants to get a pickup truck. The only practical use we would have is if we also bought an RV trailer or boat to tow with it. RV would probably be more practical, but boat would be more fun.

I would take forever to get anywhere far in the thing, but I suppose stopping in campgrounds every 250 miles or so would gradually get us somewhere.

[Zaxxon]

I believe they said it's while towing something. Not 10k lb, but their rated range includes extra weight, unlike Tesla et al.

[malchior]

I've read on the Tesla Model Y that towing at capacity (near 3500) drops about range about 50% which is comparable to the loss when towing with an ICE engine. It's still cheaper electric vs. gas though. I imagine running 5 tons on the Ford has to be a bit worse than 50%.

[Jeff V]

How common are charging stations with the space to accommodate a towed trailer? I don't recall seeing such things, but then again, it's not something I particularly look for. If not common, that would give a daily range of 120-150 miles (assuming charging would be done at a camp site) -- those are some awfully small bunny hops to get from one place to another.

[Zaxxon]

Supercharger stations generally have one stall that's a pull-in and can accommodate a vehicle with a trailer. Some also have spaces behind the actual charging spots that you can pull up to and charge from behind. Otherwise you unhitch and charge.

Not sure how EA stations handle tow vehicles.

[stessier]

It's pretty simple - People who want to make it work will. People who don't, won't.

[Jeff V]

It's pretty simple - People who want to make it work will. People who don't, won't.

That's rather back-asswards. I want a solution that will work for me, I don't want to work extra for a solution.

[LawBeefaroni]

It's pretty simple - People who want to make it work will. People who don't, won't.

That's rather back-asswards. I want a solution that will work for me, I don't want to work extra for a solution.

Then your current solution is ICE or hybrid.

[malchior]

It's pretty simple - People who want to make it work will. People who don't, won't.

Yup. I think people don't really consider that EVs of various flavors and maturities have been around long enough to not feel new but still are ultimately early adopter technology. It requires some tolerance for experimentation.

[Jeff V]

Then your current solution is ICE or hybrid.

And that may be, but I'll continue to ask because I hope someday that changes.

But I'll assume hybrid trucks (if they exist) are no better than hybrid SUVs. I looked into those 2 years ago when I bought my Rogue, the hybrid model was $6K more and the rated mileage was but 2 mph more than a standard 4-cylinder.

I don't need a current solution, yet. My wife for some reason wants a pickup truck (to feed her inner redneck I guess). I only want one if there's a practical use, meaning RV or boat. RV is probably more likely and my wife could very well go all-in on that lifestyle (she can pretty much work wherever we choose to park the thing). Schooling for the kids would be problematic though.

[LawBeefaroni]

Then your current solution is ICE or hybrid.

And that may be, but I'll continue to ask because I hope someday that changes.

But I'll assume hybrid trucks (if they exist) are no better than hybrid SUVs. I looked into those 2 years ago when I bought my Rogue, the hybrid model was $6K more and the rated mileage was but 2 mph more than a standard 4-cylinder.

My hybrid was the same price as the 2.0L and gets 10-15 better MPG in the city. This was 5 years ago. But again, your tolerance is.your tolerance.

[stessier]

It's pretty simple - People who want to make it work will. People who don't, won't.

That's rather back-asswards. I want a solution that will work for me, I don't want to work extra for a solution.

You already work extra for a solution - you are just used to it.

How often do you plan on towing something? Every weekend? What is the added burden to unhitch the trailer to charge up? What is the current burden of having to stop as a gas station every X days to fill up an ICE truck? The burden to change the oil every X months? What is the benefit of having power outlets all over your truck? Of the ability to leave home every morning with the full range of the vehicle?

Electric vehicles won't be for everyone yet, but only looking at what an ICE can do that an electric can't is, at best, shortsighted.

[Jeff V]

It's pretty simple - People who want to make it work will. People who don't, won't.

That's rather back-asswards. I want a solution that will work for me, I don't want to work extra for a solution.

You already work extra for a solution - you are just used to it.

How often do you plan on towing something? Every weekend? What is the added burden to unhitch the trailer to charge up? What is the current burden of having to stop as a gas station every X days to fill up an ICE truck? The burden to change the oil every X months? What is the benefit of having power outlets all over your truck? Of the ability to leave home every morning with the full range of the vehicle?

Electric vehicles won't be for everyone yet, but only looking at what an ICE can do that an electric can't is, at best, shortsighted.

The sole purpose of the vehicle is to tow something, so I don't really understand your question. If we bought an RV trailer, than I imagine we'll be towing a shit ton of times, otherwise, why bother? And we would be doing so on trips frequently exceeding 1000 miles one way (with 2000-3000 miles not out of the question).

Again, you seem to have it backwards. I am asking because I want to know what the electric truck can do. I did the same with electric cars last time I was in the market and it wasn't practical.

[disarm]

I've been looking at trucks for a while, thinking about buying one so that we can upgrade our camper. The unfortunate truth is that right now, an electric truck probably does not have the range capability to tow a 10,000lb trailer a reasonable distance to make it practical for a long distance trip. You can hook that trailer to an ICE truck with a 30-gallon tank and make it 300 miles before you have to make a five minute stop for gas and continue quickly on your way. Even if they manage to make an electric truck achieve the same towing distance on a charge, you still have to stop for a lot linger to recharge. When we go on a camping trip, our goal is to reach our destination as quickly as possible so that we can start enjoying the limited time that we do have during our vacation. If I have spend twice as long on the road, I'm wasting camping time and my kids are upset that we're waiting for the truck to charge instead of doing something fun.

There are a lot of things that I love about the electric F-150, and I would buy one in a heartbeat if all I needed is a competent truck for occasional hauling in the bed or towing a small trailer short distances. The unfortunate truth is that it's just not practical for anyone looking to tow a large trailer long distance. There's a reason Ford hasn't put numbers out in the open for heavy towing range; doing so would quickly show their otherwise impressive truck's biggest weakness.

[disarm]

Then your current solution is ICE or hybrid.

And that may be, but I'll continue to ask because I hope someday that changes.

But I'll assume hybrid trucks (if they exist) are no better than hybrid SUVs. I looked into those 2 years ago when I bought my Rogue, the hybrid model was $6K more and the rated mileage was but 2 mph more than a standard 4-cylinder.

Ford makes a pretty impressive hybrid F-150 that's already available, and it's supposed to get pretty impressive mileage for a truck. The problem? The hybrid system isn't active when towing; you're right back to a full ICE system and gas mileage drops to abysmal under a heavy load. It seems like a reasonable option for someone using the truck as a daily driver with only occasional towing though. You just have to get past the considerable price tag...

[Jeff V]

It seems like a reasonable option for someone using the truck as a daily driver with only occasional towing though. You just have to get past the considerable price tag...

That could well be the case. While I live on fringe of being in the country (corn fields within 1-4 city blocks in every direction) I still have not developed a redneck mindset of using such a thing like a normal person would a car. They are for hauling or towing shit. They aren't for driving long distances (they're not made for comfort) or for driving large number of people (near as I can tell, it's likely not legal to haul a bunch of unfastened people in the bed).

A friend of mine had a Chevy Silverado for about 20 years, until it finally gave up the ghost. He and the truck were available whenever I needed it, which was exactly 3 times -- when I bought a used piano, when I bought an assembled gas grill, and when I bought 2 1/2 tons of patio blocks. That convenience saved me oh, about $60 -- $20 Menard's truck rental x 3. This friend used to keep a log of all the times he used his truck to help out friends...I guess to somehow justify owning the thing in the first place. He did not replace it with another pickup -- he now drives a Honda Pilot.

[Default]

I look at that as a vehicle that would work pretty well for me in retirement in conjunction with the solar roof. You lose complexity in the switch from gas to electric, you gain self sufficiency in getting materials for your project due to the truck bed, I'm going to be fueling from home, so you gain a stable cost month to month. That initial cost outlay is painful, though.

[Zaxxon]

Ford doubles Lightning production target.

Still not nearly enough, but as I've been saying, expect more of this as reality sets in.