MLB 2021 Post Season

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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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Cubs swept the Cardinals in a 3 game series at a sold-out Wrigley field. Anthony Rizzo went from goat (for admitting he's one of the non-vaccinated) to the GOAT (for hitting a game-tying home run in the first game on the 14th pitch of an at bat). Back on the road now, though, so I'll just be hoping we can tread water.
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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Angels have won 6 straight without Trout to get back to a game over .500. But it will turn into a pumpkin tonight in Oakland. 8-)
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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Jaymann wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:52 am Angels have won 6 straight without Trout to get back to a game over .500. But it will turn into a pumpkin tonight in Oakland. 8-)
Obviously Trout is overrated and you should trade him while you can. But since he's been with the Angels for so long, you should probably trade him to a team with red in their name and color scheme, so he doesn't have such a sharp break with the color scheme that he's used to. But not the Reds, since no one wants to go to Ohio.
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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El Guapo wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:03 am
Jaymann wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:52 am Angels have won 6 straight without Trout to get back to a game over .500. But it will turn into a pumpkin tonight in Oakland. 8-)
Obviously Trout is overrated and you should trade him while you can. But since he's been with the Angels for so long, you should probably trade him to a team with red in their name and color scheme, so he doesn't have such a sharp break with the color scheme that he's used to. But not the Reds, since no one wants to go to Ohio.
Yeah that'd be a trade for the ages wouldn't it? Honestly I want to see Trout in a World Series and he'll never get there with the Angels so I'm in :D
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

Post by Octavious »

ImLawBoy wrote:Cubs swept the Cardinals in a 3 game series at a sold-out Wrigley field. Anthony Rizzo went from goat (for admitting he's one of the non-vaccinated) to the GOAT (for hitting a game-tying home run in the first game on the 14th pitch of an at bat). Back on the road now, though, so I'll just be hoping we can tread water.
Welcome to Mets land where runs go to die. ;) Today shouldn't be any easier for them.
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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FYI MLB is supposed to announce a crackdown on sticky substances. We'll see how that shakes out. I'm certain they will use a few players as examples to make a point. Hopefully nobody from the Mets. ;)
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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Octavious wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:23 am FYI MLB is supposed to announce a crackdown on sticky substances. We'll see how that shakes out. I'm certain they will use a few players as examples to make a point. Hopefully nobody from the Mets. ;)
Trevor Bauer is already feeling the pain. Next time Dodgers ask the guy if he cheats before you sign him to a mega contract. Although it'd be interesting to see if they could get out of the contract because he was cheating. I would think so, but we'll see.
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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Lorini wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:27 pm
Octavious wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:23 am FYI MLB is supposed to announce a crackdown on sticky substances. We'll see how that shakes out. I'm certain they will use a few players as examples to make a point. Hopefully nobody from the Mets. ;)
Trevor Bauer is already feeling the pain. Next time Dodgers ask the guy if he cheats before you sign him to a mega contract. Although it'd be interesting to see if they could get out of the contract because he was cheating. I would think so, but we'll see.
I don't think that it's grounds for getting out it a contract, especially if it is as well known among teams as reported.
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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Cubs 3rd base coach made a bonehead call in the 9th bailing out the Mets. Mets take the first two. deGrom tomorrow!
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:09 pm
Lorini wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:27 pm
Octavious wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:23 am FYI MLB is supposed to announce a crackdown on sticky substances. We'll see how that shakes out. I'm certain they will use a few players as examples to make a point. Hopefully nobody from the Mets. ;)
Trevor Bauer is already feeling the pain. Next time Dodgers ask the guy if he cheats before you sign him to a mega contract. Although it'd be interesting to see if they could get out of the contract because he was cheating. I would think so, but we'll see.
I don't think that it's grounds for getting out it a contract, especially if it is as well known among teams as reported.
Just because everyone goes 75 in a 65 mph zone doesn't stop me from getting a ticket going 70. We'll see but atm they are not getting the player they paid for.
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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Stupid Diamondbacks
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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Lorini wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:35 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:09 pm
Lorini wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:27 pm
Octavious wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:23 am FYI MLB is supposed to announce a crackdown on sticky substances. We'll see how that shakes out. I'm certain they will use a few players as examples to make a point. Hopefully nobody from the Mets. ;)
Trevor Bauer is already feeling the pain. Next time Dodgers ask the guy if he cheats before you sign him to a mega contract. Although it'd be interesting to see if they could get out of the contract because he was cheating. I would think so, but we'll see.
I don't think that it's grounds for getting out it a contract, especially if it is as well known among teams as reported.
Just because everyone goes 75 in a 65 mph zone doesn't stop me from getting a ticket going 70. We'll see but atm they are not getting the player they paid for.
The Dodgers probably shouldn't have paid that kind of money to a pitcher whose ERA typically is above 4 in the first place.

Also would you be okay with the Dodgers cutting all their pitchers who use illegal substances, or just Bauer?
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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Lorini wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:35 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:09 pm
Lorini wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:27 pm
Octavious wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:23 am FYI MLB is supposed to announce a crackdown on sticky substances. We'll see how that shakes out. I'm certain they will use a few players as examples to make a point. Hopefully nobody from the Mets. ;)
Trevor Bauer is already feeling the pain. Next time Dodgers ask the guy if he cheats before you sign him to a mega contract. Although it'd be interesting to see if they could get out of the contract because he was cheating. I would think so, but we'll see.
I don't think that it's grounds for getting out it a contract, especially if it is as well known among teams as reported.
Just because everyone goes 75 in a 65 mph zone doesn't stop me from getting a ticket going 70. We'll see but atm they are not getting the player they paid for.
It's not the everyone is doing it argument, it's the all the teams knew about it argument. "It" being ball doctoring, not necessarily Bauer specifically.

It's more like if you drive a truck and your employer knows you speed and encourages you to speed and then fires you when you get a ticket. If it's in your terms of employment, fine but if it is not, they'll have a fight on their hands. I don't know if doctoring the ball with illegal substances is in Bauer's contract but I doubt it.
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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Unless the contract specifically gives them an out terminating in the event Bauer is cheating (and has he actually been caught cheating?), there's not much the Dodgers can do about it. Sure, they're not getting who they thought they were getting, but baseball (and pro sports, really) is full of bad deals. That's why Jason Heyward is making over $20M this year while telling Mario Mendoza to "Hold my beer."
Octavious wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:24 pm Cubs 3rd base coach made a bonehead call in the 9th bailing out the Mets. Mets take the first two. deGrom tomorrow!
I don't normally have an issue with a third base coach being aggressive and forcing the other team to execute well, but when the ball gets there that far ahead of the runner, that's a good sign you should have held the guy. Plus Lugo had thrown over to first about 15 times. The Cubs' announcers pointed out that sometimes a pitcher will do that not to get a pickoff or even to keep a runner that much closer, but to tire the runner out from diving back to the base so many times. Don't know if that played into it or not.

On the other hand, the White Sox had a similar play last night where the ball skipped by the catcher and the Sox were able to score, so :confusion-shrug: .
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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I've said it before, the rules of baseball need to be applied. Cheaters suck. Fuck cheaters whoever they are. I'm a board gamer, I have no tolerance for cheaters.
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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Lorini wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:44 am I've said it before, the rules of baseball need to be applied. Cheaters suck. Fuck cheaters whoever they are. I'm a board gamer, I have no tolerance for cheaters.
So that's upwards of 90% of MLB pitchers (with encouragement and assistance from their teams!) you want turfed? Because that's how prevalent the issue (to one degree or another) is.
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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Ya honestly everyone and their mom is using something. What they should be doing is working on something that everyone can use that gives them a better grip. I was watching the Mets game last night and they mentioned that back in the day they wouldn't be tossing a new ball in every 5 seconds. New balls are super slick.. I think it's a really bad idea to toss this in the middle of the season with short notice. Figure out something and make everyone aware of the plan.
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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They do rub the new baseballs with dirt before they're put into play. I don't see the need to do anything more - this seems to be getting at what we've been talking about for some time. Pitching is too dominant leading to the insane number of strikeouts. Let's see what happens with this crackdown - does it actually force pitchers to focus on control instead of spin rate? Will this help reduce strikeouts? Will this tip the advantage too far toward the hitters? I don't know the answers, but this is one of the few times I'm actually supportive of MLB doing something without having fully tested out the consequences (or just plain ignoring what the data says the consequences will be).
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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pr0ner wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:07 am
Lorini wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:44 am I've said it before, the rules of baseball need to be applied. Cheaters suck. Fuck cheaters whoever they are. I'm a board gamer, I have no tolerance for cheaters.
So that's upwards of 90% of MLB pitchers (with encouragement and assistance from their teams!) you want turfed? Because that's how prevalent the issue (to one degree or another) is.
There's plenty of minor leaguers happy to take their place. We're getting crappy baseball with the cheaters as it is, let's see some exciting games.
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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ImLawBoy wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:35 pm They do rub the new baseballs with dirt before they're put into play. I don't see the need to do anything more - this seems to be getting at what we've been talking about for some time. Pitching is too dominant leading to the insane number of strikeouts. Let's see what happens with this crackdown - does it actually force pitchers to focus on control instead of spin rate? Will this help reduce strikeouts? Will this tip the advantage too far toward the hitters? I don't know the answers, but this is one of the few times I'm actually supportive of MLB doing something without having fully tested out the consequences (or just plain ignoring what the data says the consequences will be).
*Especially* as the alternative for MLB was moving the mound back and/or outlawing the shift (which is such a stupid idea mandating where the players need to be).

On the other hand, I do think that the Rays pitcher who got injured trying to get clean has a point. The midseason change in enforcement is problematic.

One thing I think is that if they do continue with aggressive enforcement, we will see some dramatic changes. As a Giants fan, the improvement in their pitching was pretty incredible this year. Just about every starter was having amazing years, and the bullpen had gotten a lot better this year. Since the crackdown announcement (or thereabouts - correlation <> causation), I have definitely seen an increase in the starters getting shelled, whereas before, while they wouldn't always go 6 before the bullpen call came in, they were around 95% of the time allowing 3 or fewer runs. Lately they've had a couple more outings where they are giving up 5+ runs - see last night giving up 7 in the 1st).

Side note - it will be *really* interesting to see what happens with the All-Star game pitchers and whether they have second half performance anywhere near what gets them to the All-Star Game.
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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Lorini wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:43 pm
pr0ner wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:07 am
Lorini wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:44 am I've said it before, the rules of baseball need to be applied. Cheaters suck. Fuck cheaters whoever they are. I'm a board gamer, I have no tolerance for cheaters.
So that's upwards of 90% of MLB pitchers (with encouragement and assistance from their teams!) you want turfed? Because that's how prevalent the issue (to one degree or another) is.
There's plenty of minor leaguers happy to take their place. We're getting crappy baseball with the cheaters as it is, let's see some exciting games.
The minor leaguers are doing it, too. It's prevalent at all levels of the game right now.
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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ImLawBoy wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:35 pm They do rub the new baseballs with dirt before they're put into play. I don't see the need to do anything more - this seems to be getting at what we've been talking about for some time. Pitching is too dominant leading to the insane number of strikeouts. Let's see what happens with this crackdown - does it actually force pitchers to focus on control instead of spin rate? Will this help reduce strikeouts? Will this tip the advantage too far toward the hitters? I don't know the answers, but this is one of the few times I'm actually supportive of MLB doing something without having fully tested out the consequences (or just plain ignoring what the data says the consequences will be).
I know some pitchers are saying they need some kind of tacky grip in order to control the ball and not hit batters as it is. But HBPs are actually up in the game the last few years, so read into that what you will.
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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Isn't part of pitching dominance based on the Shift and swinging for the fences, though? It doesn't seem a stretch to say that the game has evolved and part of evolution is the desire to have every batter be a slugger.

https://www.baseball-almanac.com/hitting/hihr6.shtml

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2 ... e-changes/
According to MLB’s Statcast data, teams shifted 12.1 percent of the time in 2017. Last year, that number rose to 34.1 percent. Only one team, Atlanta, shifted on fewer than 18 percent of plate appearances. The Los Angeles Dodgers shifted 55 percent of the time.
I can't speak to how long pitchers have been doing what to the balls. I know when Kenny Rodgers became a Tiger, it was pretty obvious he was tampering with the balls and it totally turned me off. As much as I was loving the team, I'd turn off the game when he was pitching.

Edit: That was to ILB, wherein like five people posted in between....
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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pr0ner wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:50 pm
Lorini wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:43 pm
pr0ner wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:07 am
Lorini wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:44 am I've said it before, the rules of baseball need to be applied. Cheaters suck. Fuck cheaters whoever they are. I'm a board gamer, I have no tolerance for cheaters.
So that's upwards of 90% of MLB pitchers (with encouragement and assistance from their teams!) you want turfed? Because that's how prevalent the issue (to one degree or another) is.
There's plenty of minor leaguers happy to take their place. We're getting crappy baseball with the cheaters as it is, let's see some exciting games.
The minor leaguers are doing it, too. It's prevalent at all levels of the game right now.
At the end of the day, once SI broke their story, MLB had to do something. They've been given a week, let's see what happens. I'm tired of cheaters in this sport. They've had three major cheating scandals in this sport while I was watching it. The NFL had spygate and deflategate, both involving the same team with relatively low impact on the game. MLB has had steroids, trash cans, and now another 'everyone else is doing it' scandal. Meanwhile the NBA has had no player or team scandals. I think I'll go watch some pro basketball for awhile.
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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LordMortis wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:52 pm Isn't part of pitching dominance based on the Shift and swinging for the fences, though? It doesn't seem a stretch to say that the game has evolved and part of evolution is the desire to have every batter be a slugger.

https://www.baseball-almanac.com/hitting/hihr6.shtml

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2 ... e-changes/
According to MLB’s Statcast data, teams shifted 12.1 percent of the time in 2017. Last year, that number rose to 34.1 percent. Only one team, Atlanta, shifted on fewer than 18 percent of plate appearances. The Los Angeles Dodgers shifted 55 percent of the time.
I can't speak to how long pitchers have been doing what to the balls. I know when Kenny Rodgers became a Tiger, it was pretty obvious he was tampering with the balls and it totally turned me off. As much as I was loving the team, I'd turn off the game when he was pitching.

Edit: That was to ILB, wherein like five people posted in between....
Pitch spin rates go WAY up when using stuff like Pelican Grip, Super Tack, or even Brian Harkins' sticky stuff. It's very possible that all the increased spin rates and ridiculous movement that come with it is what's really caused the spike in strikeouts.
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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It's a combo of spin rate and people's approach at the plate. People swing for the fences more than they used to. deGroms spin rate isn't anywhere near the top so I'm curious to see if he starts getting shelled. I mean it has to happen at some point right?
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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Octavious wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:13 pm deGroms spin rate isn't anywhere near the top so I'm curious to see if he starts getting shelled. I mean it has to happen at some point right?
Well, he's a Met, so....

:mrgreen:
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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Lorini wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:00 pm
pr0ner wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:50 pm
Lorini wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:43 pm
pr0ner wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:07 am
Lorini wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:44 am I've said it before, the rules of baseball need to be applied. Cheaters suck. Fuck cheaters whoever they are. I'm a board gamer, I have no tolerance for cheaters.
So that's upwards of 90% of MLB pitchers (with encouragement and assistance from their teams!) you want turfed? Because that's how prevalent the issue (to one degree or another) is.
There's plenty of minor leaguers happy to take their place. We're getting crappy baseball with the cheaters as it is, let's see some exciting games.
The minor leaguers are doing it, too. It's prevalent at all levels of the game right now.
At the end of the day, once SI broke their story, MLB had to do something. They've been given a week, let's see what happens. I'm tired of cheaters in this sport. They've had three major cheating scandals in this sport while I was watching it. The NFL had spygate and deflategate, both involving the same team with relatively low impact on the game. MLB has had steroids, trash cans, and now another 'everyone else is doing it' scandal. Meanwhile the NBA has had no player or team scandals. I think I'll go watch some pro basketball for awhile.
Keep in mind that just because something doesn't become a scandal doesn't mean people aren't cheating. I think it's safe to assume that steroid use in the NFL was at least as prevalent as in MLB, but it didn't get the same level of media coverage for whatever reason. I also think it's probably harder to cheat in the NBA than it is in MLB, since you don't have all the equipment to mess with. Or you could say that the NBA equivalent to cheating is flopping - guys fake getting knocked over to trick the refs into calling fouls. They're being dishonest, so it's not that odd to call it cheating (of a sort). I'm resigned to the fact that these hyper competitive professional athletes will do just about whatever they can get away with to get an edge. It has both competitive benefits and financial rewards for them.

On a side note, let's remember that it's not just pitchers using the sticky stuff:

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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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Lorini wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:00 pm They've had three major cheating scandals in this sport while I was watching it. The NFL had spygate and deflategate,
I'm not letting this pitch sail by - Deflategate was not a cheating scandal. It was simply people being bad at chemistry/physics. Spygate is more akin to the current discussion as literally every team was doing it.
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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That's.... almost magical. It's tough to stop watching.

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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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Rule exploitation is not the same as cheating. We exploit the rules in board games all the time, thus the complaints of 'broken' games. That's not breaking the rules however. No issues with players taking advantage of bad rules.
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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Rule exploitation is not the same as cheating. We exploit the rules in board games all the time, thus the complaints of 'broken' games. That's not breaking the rules however. No issues with players taking advantage of bad rules.
Last edited by Lorini on Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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That's kind of splitting hairs, isn't it? If a player is acting dishonestly in an attempt to get an advantage, does it matter whether it's lying to the officials vs. getting a little saliva on the baseball?
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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Spoiler:
BUM CHILLUPS AKA SPENCER HALL
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

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ImLawBoy wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:57 pm
Spoiler:
BUM CHILLUPS AKA SPENCER HALL
@edsbs
Pitchers should only be allowed to use concession stand items to improve grip on the ball, good luck with this 94 mph nacho cheese ball you nerds
7:15 AM · Jun 16, 2021·Twitter for iPhone
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

This would give a whole new meaning to throwing someone the high cheese.
Hodor.
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LordMortis
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

Post by LordMortis »

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Octavious
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

Post by Octavious »

deGrom out after 8 KS in 3 innings. Hurt....Sigh
Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people’s stuff.

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malchior
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

Post by malchior »

Octavious wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:14 pm deGrom out after 8 KS in 3 innings. Hurt....Sigh
Doh and as he continues to fix his run support problem.
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Octavious
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Re: MLB 2021 Regular Season

Post by Octavious »

I would have taken a loss and a healthy deGrom. I'm praying he just misses a start or two.
Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people’s stuff.

Shameless plug for my website: www.nettphoto.com
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