Old World from Mohawk Games

[Jolor]

Old World at Mohawk Games

Leaves early access July 1st via Epic. Thoughts, OO?

From their website:
Conquer the Old World in this historical, epic strategy game from Soren Johnson, Lead Designer of Civilization IV and Offworld Trading Company. Every year is a turn, and each leader is a mere mortal, so your lasting legacy will be the dynasty you leave behind.

[Carpet_pissr]

Soren Johnson? Insta-"in" for me.

CIv IV for me was...gaming heaven.

It does vex me slightly that I can't add it to my wishlist on Steam though. Trailer on Epic looks very interesting, if maybe a little low budget (which doesn't bother me at all if the core gameplay is there, and particularly less important in this type of game).

[baelthazar]

I have had it since it began EA and played it a handful of times. Overall, I was impressed, it mixes the sort of storytelling you might see in a Crusader Kings-style game with a civ-builder like Civ IV. You balance your own personal character and his (or rarely her) heirs and the different needs and demands of the factions in your society. I didn't want to play the beta too much, because I have a tendency to "burn out" on open civ style games after spending 30+ hours with them and I felt it was best to do that when I knew the game was fully complete.

One interesting tidbit, Soren sees his inspiration for this one as being a mix between Civ and his previous title Offworld Trading Company. Along those lines, there are far more tangible resources and a stronger economic system in Old World than you see normally in Civ games. This is, IMHO, more realistic and less abstracted than most similar games. The tradeoff, however, is that the game never progresses past the classical period, so no medieval stuff. I love classical civilizations and they pick some of the most interesting ones to put in the game.

The BIG caveat I have is that - when this came out in EA - it was going to be pretty unique. But they chose a release date that now almost directly conflicts with the release of Humankind (by the makers of the "Endless" 4X games) in August. Humankind is similarly unique with its "you play as a people not as a civ" style that lets you "evolve" into other civilizations as you play.

[Lorini]

July 1st vs early August is a conflict? I don't think it'll be an issue.

[Freyland]

It absolutely would be for people like me. I can only invest so much time towards that kind of game, so I would pick one, not both, even if a month apart.

[Sudy]

Do you people only play games at launch or something?


Civ that never advances past the classic age sounds perfect for me, since I've always much preferred the first couple eras. (Though that has as much to do with how the gameplay ramps as the setting itself.) I also love the more Crusader-like character development elements, as I've always been too intimidated to seriously try a grand strategy game.

[Archinerd]

So far, looks good to me. I look forward to playing it in a year+ when it's not an Epic exclusive.
Opinions on it should be set by then too, so I have plenty of time to reconsider.

[baelthazar]

July 1st vs early August is a conflict? I don't think it'll be an issue.

I mean, I bought them both, so it doesn't bother me!

It was actually an accident. Humankind was supposed to release in April.

[Lorini]

So far, looks good to me. I look forward to playing it in a year+ when it's not an Epic exclusive.
Opinions on it should be set by then too, so I have plenty of time to reconsider.

He's never promised a Steam release, so play Humankind instead

[Lorini]

It absolutely would be for people like me. I can only invest so much time towards that kind of game, so I would pick one, not both, even if a month apart.

You've got six weeks for Old World? For me and my friends that I play with, that would be plenty. Sure I'd come back to it after Humankind but six weeks of playing it should let you know if you like it.

I've not liked any of the Endless games so I'm not really anxious about Humankind.

[jztemple2]

I bought this last year, early I think, during an Epic sale to use up my $10 coupon. I've been getting emails pretty regularly as updates are made to the game, but I haven't installed it so as to not ruin the experience with beta play. I'm hoping it is as good as it sounds.

[jztemple2]

For those who might want more info on the game, here is an interview on PCGamesN with the designer Soren Johnson about the game:

Soren Johnson thinks Civilization is too long. His opinion on the matter is probably more valid than most – he was the lead designer on Civilization IV, after all – and he’s currently working on his own distillation of the leading 4X game: Old World (formerly 10 Crowns, if you remember the original announcement).

It’s not as overt a challenger to Civilization as Amplitude’s Humankind, which has its own problems in its attempt to take on the definitive 4X. Old World is more of a subtle commentary on 4X design than an out-and-out rival, but it comes with plenty of smart ideas as to how a historical strategy game can empower the player in each moment.

[mcdog512]

I own both Humankind and Old World, Humankind being a pre-order.

I think both games are pretty good. I played two Opendevs of Humankind and have had Old World since it went EA.

[Jeff V]

I'll be keeping an eye out on this one. I don't pre-order, and as often as not an anticipated game gets a lukewarm reception after failing to live up to promises so I don't buy it after release, either.

[LordMortis]

$10 discount coupon made this a buy at $30. My third Epic purchase ever. The first two didn't end up having much value for me.

[baelthazar]

I've not liked any of the Endless games so I'm not really anxious about Humankind.

If you didn't care for Endless Legend, you probably won't like Humankind. They kept the same "one city claims the territory and you build sprawling cities by putting districts on hexes" gameplay that is featured in Legend. They did, however, remove the unit customization which was a bit "meh" for me in Legends, and I feel like the tech tree makes more sense in Humankind. Although that might be more a factor that I know what a "wheel" is and "Air Dust Extraction" is a far more abstracted tech idea.

[LordMortis]

I liked the endless game where you were gathering a party trying to escape a ship. I have two other endless games that did not capture my attention.

[jztemple2]

The game was just released, per Mohawk Games

The long-awaited historical 4X strategy title, Old World is out now on the Epic Games Store. Set in classic antiquity, Old World is the newest game from Soren Johnson, previously Designer of Civilization III, Civilization IV, and Offworld Trading Company.



Select from seven leaders plucked straight from history and compete to be the greatest of them all. No leader can triumph alone – the deep legacy system means leaders are mortal and will eventually die, leaving the fate of their empire to their kin. Pair this with the innovative Orders system, and Old World proves to be a refreshing take on the classic strategy genre.

Key features:

Mortal Leaders: While the player starts with legendary leaders such as Cyrus the Great, the Pharaoh Hatshepsut, or Queen Dido of Carthage, they are still just mortal. Once they meet their demise, the future of the nation depends on how well they prepared their dynasty. Alexander starts not as the Great but simply as Philip’s promising 13-year-old heir.

Innovative Orders System: Orders are the resource players use to move and command their units as they see fit, unlike traditional 4X games which limit every unit to exactly one move each turn. Giving players control of who can take an action and how many times adds a new layer of strategic depth to the genre.

Dynamic Event Engine: With a dynamic story generation system, Old World features events inspired both by real history and by our writers’ imaginations. Each event gives the player an important and impactful decision that can lead to unexpected places years later in the narrative, ensuring that no two games will ever play out the same way.

Engaging Scenarios: Beyond the standard game on random maps, Old World also ships with a Barbarian Horde scenario, perfect for single-player or cooperative multiplayer, and the epic, four-scenario Rise of Carthage campaign, which lets the player retell that nation’s story, from its founding by Dido to (hopefully) rewriting the ending of the Punic Wars.

Flexible Multiplayer: Old World supports a wide variety of multiplayer modes, including asynchronous, play-by-cloud, hotseat, team games, scenarios, headless servers, and a variety of turn speeds and styles.

Sadly, since I picked up the game in early access a year ago I've kind of lost interest in the 4X genre . However, maybe having a new IP will reinvigorate my interest, since I never did play it in beta.

By the way, here is a new review of the game from PC Gamer, they seem happy.

[LordMortis]

I keep meaning to start this. The icon is on my desktop staring at me.

[jztemple2]

Seal your place in history with this Old World beginners guide

Old World is a much-needed new player in the field of historical 4X games—too long has Sid Meier’s name hung over every meaningful entry in the genre like the eternal ghost of a despotic emperor. This hex-based strategy epic—which sees you lead an ancient kingdom through 200 years of politics, conquests, and family feuds—was designed by Civilization IV designer Soren Johnson, and you can feel that lineage running through it.

But Old World adds plenty of spokes to the 4X chariot wheel. It’s full of great ideas and systems that make it feel pacier and less menial than many of its peers, which means there are quite a few things you’ll have to learn. That's where this Old World guide for beginners comes in.

[Lassr]

I have this installed and plan to play soon, I just finished a game of Civ VI though so not feeling another CIV type game yet.

[LordMortis]

Just started this, finally. The game makes me feel like I've never played a 4x before. Off to read that beginners guide.

[dbt1949]

Saw a Lets Play video. I'm not sure about this yet.

[LordMortis]

I just put in a chunk of an afternoon and walking away thinking the game is unclear to me. There are shitton of dynamics at play and how to work with them isn't clear. You build this huge court and marriages, but why? You have an impending unrest with no way that I can see for how to manage it. Is it just a clock? The legitimacy/orders dynamic is neat. I'm not sure what the 200 turns total will mean as I never made it that far. I might come back to it at another time but right now it's not appealing to me.

[dbt1949]

I've heard it had a steep learning curve. One of the things I think about.

[dbemont]

There is a very good manual:
https://t.co/JoRw6U8QgC?amp=1
And tooltips are very extensive and sophisticated in this game.

I started playing long enough ago that I can no longer really remember the initial learning curve. But I can say, overall, that the game is very frustrating to those who feel the need to wrap their heads around everything pretty much from the start. However, if you are playing at a modest difficulty level you can pick up the nuances as you play, without getting stomped. Play as Rome and it is even less challenging -- use your innate advantage to expand quickly by taking out nearby barbarians and minors, and once you have a size advantage on your rivals, you can play sub optimally and still win.

One thing to keep in mind, though, is that unlike Civ games, turtling cannot last. While it is generally a good idea to appease rivals in the very early going, the game has plenty of pot-stirring random events that will force you into military conflict with the other majors. The win conditions do not lean heavily on military victory, but it is nigh impossible to accomplish win conditions without an imposing military machine.

As to the court and marriages... you are the current ruler but you are not immortal, so you are always concerned about producing an heir. And the strengths and weaknesses of that heir are of major concern; quite realistically, succession is always a challenge, but far more threatening if the new rule is unfit... Besides which, the royal family and the court are good sources of generals, ambassadors, governors, etc., whose quality (or lack thereof) can have an enormous impact.

Unrest, in my experience, is a nagging problem, but rarely overwhelming. The populace has to be kept at least reasonably satisfied, and you can use religion and laws and military units (of the local family) and festivals and luxuries and such to mitigate.

[Lassr]

I just put in a chunk of an afternoon and walking away thinking the game is unclear to me. There are shitton of dynamics at play and how to work with them isn't clear. You build this huge court and marriages, but why? You have an impending unrest with no way that I can see for how to manage it. Is it just a clock? The legitimacy/orders dynamic is neat. I'm not sure what the 200 turns total will mean as I never made it that far. I might come back to it at another time but right now it's not appealing to me.

this is me. I've put a few hours into it, digging through menus and sub menus, and it is not clicking with me. This is a game in my younger years i would have played and figured it out but I find with my limited time these days I just do not want to play hours on end just to try and figure how to play the game, much less play it well. This will probably go into the "Maybe try it later, but I know I'll never try it later Category"

[LordMortis]

"Maybe try it later, but I know I'll never try it later Category"

I know that category all too well.

[Carpet_pissr]

"Maybe try it later, but I know I'll never try it later Category"

I know that category all too well.

I call that the ARCHIVE in my Steam games category list. Effectively a trash can. I don't move games there because they are bad, or I hate the genre, or whatever, but for exactly the reason you guys mentioned: too much of a time investment (to learn, not to even mention play) in my current life stage. You might could even call that category "WISH I KNEW YOU WHEN I WAS YOUNG". (Great song BTW).

And to think I used to actively wonder if I would still be playing games when I was a grey, nattering oldster (back then, I couldn't imagine a future when I wouldn't love and play PC games). Based on the trends in the past 10 years or so, I guess the answer is "doubt it".

[LordMortis]

If we still had manuals that explained game mechanics I'd probably have more patience. Probably. It's hard to commit. I still remember having to create different boot disks for every game when we got our first PC and the time and effort involved in learning how to just start a game. Setting up a soundblaster, graphics, and memory settings. If I had to do that today? Showstopper.

[Jolor]

If we still had manuals that explained game mechanics I'd probably have more patience.

I really do miss game manuals and the tech trees you used to get with some games. For a strategy game, I'd often read the manual before launching a "real" game; often, I'd pin the tech tree to my corkboard so I could plan out my advancement. Tutorials are great. Online manuals and trees are welcome but don't supplant the printed versions, imo.

[infinitelurker]

I noticed that this is out on Steam now... are any of you who bought on Epic still playing or would recommend it?

[Madmarcus]

Based on the glowing reviews (mostly on Qt3) I bought this over the weekend now that it is out of Steam. So far after a couple of hours playing I'd say it is good but frustrating.

Positives
Limited orders is a great mechanic for a Civ type game. It feels limiting but forces some good decisions.
Adding a light family roleplaying is good
The interplay of resources, tech, and construction is nice

Negatives
I'm still not sold on 1UPHex
The short and fixed length bugs me

Note that the turn limit / fixed length might not be a negative in the long run but right now it feels really hard. Warriors take 8 years to build and I'm only going to be playing for 100 years. Getting two trained warriors plus at least one trained slinger (the minimum I want to take to attack a barbarian city) takes a long time!

[jztemple2]

I've had it on Epic since it first went on sale in beta... I've installed it several times, did a few moves each time, then uninstalled. It may not be the game, I just might be over these 4X grand strategy games.

[dbt1949]

I've seen 3-4 youtube videos of it but it just isn't for me. Looks good tho.

[LordMortis]

It's still sitting on my desktop now sure if/when I'll get back to it. I'll have to see if they've done updates.

[Carpet_pissr]

It seems like Soren and crew have been trying to bottle the magic that IMO makes Civ great: those first 40-50 turns or so.

I personally enjoy the games well after that, and while the mid/late game can be tedious, it’s also imo where you get to enjoy the work you put in during those first 40 turns.

I will definitely try this as it sounds interesting, but just based on hearing that it’s a fixed time (and short) turns (ha!) me off a bit.

Maybe a bad analogy, but sounds like it’s like playing only the first several experience levels of an old school rpg, where every encounter is dangerous, and you have to be super careful before you get powerful enough for things to get easy and fun (but in a different way).

[Madmarcus]

I got to play a slightly longer time last night so I can revise my impressions. Using the option to have a 200 turn game instead of a 100 turn game really upped my enjoyment. Suddenly it didn't feel like I was waiting almost a quarter of the game simply to build an army big enough to stomp my first barbarian!