The million and one versions of Jagged Alliance - help!

[Carpet_pissr]

So I got A version of Jagged Alliance 2 from a Humble or GOG or Fanatical bundle today, and noticed something funny: Jagged Alliance: Wildfire is the so-called base game. with JA2 CLASSIC as the DLC! WTF. Has the world gone mad?!

So I fired it up just to see just how bad and old it looked, and if it was even playable. Ass was kicked immediately in Wildfire, but play was ok. I would say RIGHT on the brink of playability (to me). It's definitely past its expiration date for all except the most avid JA fans (which I consider myself one, but even I have limits).

So I tried the "DLC", JA2 Classic. Opens and plays surprisingly well! The camera is way too herky jerky, but if I can find a mod to fix that, or slow it down, it might be playable.

That started me down the rabbit hole of the million and one versions of this game, in its various iterations - JA1, JA Gold, Wildfire, JA2 Classic, Unfinished Business, etc. Yes, I'm aware I'm unfairly bringing a completely different game into this (JA1), but when searching and reading, it's a bit hard to separate the two.

ANYWAY...I'm simply looking for the best, most playable, enjoyable version of JA2 available. Wildfire seems to be even harder than "vanilla" JA2, which is damned hard enough, IMO, so unless someone has some real strong opinions that I should play Wildfire, I'd rather stick with Classic...in some form.

Came across this version, "Stracciatella" but not sure if that is better, worse, newer, etc than version 1.13 which I think is the fan based mod.
https://ja2-stracciatella.github.io

Anybody played this recently, or done this research? I can foresee reading up on this for hours before I even play, so if someone has already done it.... (yes, I'm lazy)

[coopasonic]

I've tried and failed. JA2 was my #1 until the new XCOM games came along. I really wish they would give JA2 the XCOM revival treatment. There have been attempts but they have all fallen flat (for me). The original is still playable, but the quality of life stuff is absolutely abysmal.

[Madmarcus]

Last time I reinstalled I used the SCI from the Bear's Pit website. I just looked and that version is from May 2020 so reasonably recent in JA2 terms. I haven't looked at Stracciatella in years. I can still deal with most of the QoL issues in JA2 or at least I could in 2019 but I don't think I'd put up with them if I didn't have a history with the game. I've never tried Wildfire or UB.

[Anonymous Bosch]

If you have never played the game before, I'd recommend you keep things simple and aim to play as close to vanilla as possible. So, with that in mind, I'd suggest installing Jagged Alliance 2 + the Stracciatella mod you mentioned, which improves stability and fixes numerous bugs without necessarily increasing the game's complexity or difficulty.

If you're an experienced JA2 veteran, I'd instead recommend installing Jagged Alliance 2 along with the mod known simply as 1.13, whicn is a hefty community super patch of sorts. However, 1.13 further increases the game's complexity, depth, and difficulty, and is really aimed at veterans. So, I wouldn't recommend trying it as a newb at all.

If you need further assistance, head over to the Bear's Pit forums and they'll get you squared away.

[Sudy]

I seem to recall that Wildfire was kind of a "hard mode" mod sold as a re-release several years later. Kind of a Long War thing. I think it reviewed OK but was... devastatingly difficult. I'm only sharing this because anecdotes are more fun than hard facts that we could google.

[Isgrimnur]

I'm only sharing this because anecdotes are more fun than hard facts that we could google.

[Smoove_B]

I didn't even realize I didn't own the "right" versions of JA2 until I read this accounting. WTF is all I can say as well.

[Sudy]

My bad, I forgot the living embodiment of Google attends this forum.

[Carpet_pissr]

Not sure if I’m a veteran or not. I played it when it first came out of course, and maybe a few times since? Same for the first one.

I vaguely remember the best starting mercs (if you put the whole AIM roster in front of me) if that gives you any reference.

Someone upthread mentioned abysmal QOL factor. That said better what I was originally trying to convey, that it’s right on that line for me.

But if I could just figure out how to smooth the chop of the camera movement, I could probably power through and enjoy it one last time.

[Isgrimnur]

My bad, I forgot the living embodiment of Google attends this forum.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Not sure if I’m a veteran or not. I played it when it first came out of course, and maybe a few times since? Same for the first one.

I vaguely remember the best starting mercs (if you put the whole AIM roster in front of me) if that gives you any reference.

Someone upthread mentioned abysmal QOL factor. That said better what I was originally trying to convey, that it’s right on that line for me.

But if I could just figure out how to smooth the chop of the camera movement, I could probably power through and enjoy it one last time.

Sounds like you should be good with vanilla Jagged Alliance 2 + the Stracciatella mod in that case.

If you already have Stracciatella installed and are still suffering from choppy camera movement, try using the files provided here and see if that helps. If that doesn't help, I'd suggest posting about your issue on the Bear's Pit Stracciatella forum.

[Carpet_pissr]

Awesome, thanks! Will try that. Apparently it wasn't just me having this problem - from Steam forum: "unfortunately Stracciatella makes the game stutter like crazy, so I'm stuck on some variant of the 1.13 mod, unfortunately."

Why do you recommend Stracciatella over 1.13? Just curious.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Awesome, thanks! Will try that. Apparently it wasn't just me having this problem - from Steam forum: "unfortunately Stracciatella makes the game stutter like crazy, so I'm stuck on some variant of the 1.13 mod, unfortunately."

Why do you recommend Stracciatella over 1.13? Just curious.

Don't get me wrong, 1.13 provides an incredible enhancement to the original game. It adds immensely more to the overall JA2 experience, with perhaps the greatest aspect being the modding possibilities. 1.13 adds a tremendous array of features to the game, most of which can be tweaked and toggled on or off (which does require starting a new game, however). In theory, you can emulate the vanilla 1.12 experience on 1.13 fairly closely, but that's definitely not how it comes configured by default.

To provide just one example, there's the revamped to hit chance. One of 1.13's greatest features is a complete reworking of how firing works internally, making it arguably one of the most realistic systems employed in an isometric game. But one of its primary goals was to make you hit less (or more precisely, to combat 100% granted head shots with advanced and/or heavily modified weapons). So, with the default settings of 1.13, that's precisely what it does -- you will miss even more often (though this can be tweaked too, of course).

So 1.13 is, by default, more challenging and complex than that of the original vanilla JA2 experience. It offers far more choice, both in setting up the game and in-game, which is why I'd say it's better-suited for veterans that know exactly which aspects of the game they're interested in tweaking or altering. So I'd say 1.13 is the way to go if/when you're no longer satisfied with the original vanilla JA2 experience, and/or want more. But the sheer amount of options and added complexity can be overwhelming and confusing for those just starting out, so if you're interested in original gameplay I think it's better to keep things simple and start there first. This is where Stracciatella comes in. Because it aims to simply provide a stable platform with improved stability and bugfixes that come closer to matching the original vanilla JA2 experience.

[Carpet_pissr]

Awesome, thanks! Will try that. Apparently it wasn't just me having this problem - from Steam forum: "unfortunately Stracciatella makes the game stutter like crazy, so I'm stuck on some variant of the 1.13 mod, unfortunately."

Why do you recommend Stracciatella over 1.13? Just curious.

Don't get me wrong, 1.13 provides an incredible enhancement to the original game. It adds immensely more to the overall JA2 experience, with perhaps the greatest aspect being the modding possibilities. 1.13 adds a tremendous array of features to the game, most of which can be tweaked and toggled on or off (which does require starting a new game, however). In theory, you can emulate the vanilla 1.12 experience on 1.13 fairly closely, but that's definitely not how it comes configured by default.

To provide just one example, there's the revamped to hit chance. One of 1.13's greatest features is a complete reworking of how firing works internally, making it arguably one of the most realistic systems employed in an isometric game. But one of its primary goals was to make you hit less (or more precisely, to combat 100% granted head shots with advanced and/or heavily modified weapons). So, with the default settings of 1.13, that's precisely what it does -- you will miss even more often (though this can be tweaked too, of course).

So 1.13 is, by default, more challenging and complex than that of the original vanilla JA2 experience. It offers far more choice, both in setting up the game and in-game, which is why I'd say it's better-suited for veterans that know exactly which aspects of the game they're interested in tweaking or altering. So I'd say 1.13 is the way to go if/when you're no longer satisfied with the original vanilla JA2 experience, and/or want more. But the sheer amount of options and added complexity can be overwhelming and confusing for those just starting out, so if you're interested in original gameplay I think it's better to keep things simple and start there first. This is where Stracciatella comes in. Because it aims to simply provide a stable platform with improved stability and bugfixes that come closer to matching the original vanilla JA2 experience.

Beautifully and concisely put, thank you! Stracciatella it is!

[Grifman]

I seem to recall that Wildfire was kind of a "hard mode" mod sold as a re-release several years later. Kind of a Long War thing. I think it reviewed OK but was... devastatingly difficult. I'm only sharing this because anecdotes are more fun than hard facts that we could google.

Yeah, Wildfire was a difficulty mod, I think it was put together by some Russians, though I could be mistaken about this. Unfinished Business was an official sequel to JA2. Everything else is unofficial, patches, mods, etc.

[Carpet_pissr]

So I've put quite a few hours in recently, and got bogged down exactly the way I did before (I remember, now) a few years ago when I tried to replay this.

1. There are so many versions of this, it takes some reading, and actually trying them all (IMO) to decide what you even want to play. Hours.
2. Once I made that decision (this time, it's Straciatella, previously I believe I tried Wildfire), you get into the issues with formatting, and running properly, etc.
3, Finally, I get hit with the "oldschoolgameitis" bug, which is a grind of choosing the initial team and your merc, tons of research online, then playing the first boring map several times and restarting bc something didn't "feel" right. And let's face it, in these older, relatively punishing games, if you choose "incorrectly" on certain things, you could make things so hard for yourself that it's not enjoyable.

Now I fully admit that many if not all those problems are more related to me and my brain than any inherent issue with the game.

HOWEVER, I will say that the depth of this game, and the strategy, and options - not to mention the humor, and obvious love shown by the devs for their product, is not replicated in many modern games, including X-Com 2+. XCom2 is an amazing, fun game. But something important and beautiful was lost in the transition from this KIND of game (and it was also an "age" of gaming I think), to its modern counterparts. I think we can call that "soul", and get pretty close.

I can't tell you how many times in the past couple weeks I've read something to the effect of "Why hasn't anyone been able to recreate this game with modern everything?!" Many have tried. Failed. Hell, I think if the exact original team that made this was somehow able to get together and make a followup, it probably wouldn't have the magic that this one has.

Anyway, I trudge along, because I know, and remember that magic. And it's totally worth the jankiness introduced by time and expectations to experience that again (for me - totally get that the vast majority of gamers do not have that patience for old school games). Hell, even I don't have that patience for most games I have tried to go "back" to, but this one is the exception (and the first two Fallouts).

So the adventures of Bruce Brucekowski, newbie merc mechanic, and his oh so very sneaky band of hired killers roam the ravaged island of Arulco once again...22 years later.

[Carpet_pissr]

One more comment and I'm done:

It's interesting to just note that Sir-Tech, with practically just TWO game franchises in its stable, created some of the most memorable and fun times that I've had playing PC games. OTOH, what franchises! I would love/hate to know how many weeks I spent playing all the Wizardry's and both Jagged Alliance versions over the years, and just absolutely had a blast the whole time, with every single title.

*Sniff* Sir-Tech, you are missed.

Now I'm tempted to try my hand at Wizardry VII...again, but man that is a SERIOUS time commitment (but SUCH a great gaming memory!) I think I also tried that one in the past several years, and it might have already crossed that "this lack of QoL stuff isn't worth it" line.

[Kasey Chang]

That could be the reason I never got back into JA after playing the first game. I did play JA-Rage, which is a sequel of sorts (set like a decade or two later) but with a very different engine and combat more akin to XCOM.

[Madmarcus]

Bumping the thread makes me want to reinstall!

[LordMortis]

Me too. I have a sudden urge to punch crows to try and raise my strength. Only re-installing for me means finding an external DVD player, finding the DVD and hoping it works with 10. Of course I could re-purchase the game in a non external media format but the urge to play does not come with the urge figure out the conversation about about a million and one different releases.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Me too. I have a sudden urge to punch crows to try and raise my strength. Only re-installing for me means finding an external DVD player, finding the DVD and hoping it works with 10. Of course I could re-purchase the game in a non external media format but the urge to play does not come with the urge figure out the conversation about about a million and one different releases.

If you're just interested in replaying the original Jagged Alliance 2 with improved stability and bugfixes on Windows 10, I'll make it super simple for you:

1. Purchase the GOG version of Jagged Alliance 2 (it's only $1.99 right now, and it's the easiest version to work with).
2. Follow these instructions to install the JA2-Stracciatella mod.
3. Install the fix mentioned here to improve Windows 10 performance.
4. Kick Deidranna's arse!

[LordMortis]

I'll think about that.