California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

If it's a video game it goes here.

Moderators: LawBeefaroni, Arcanis, $iljanus

User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 43496
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by Blackhawk »

gbasden wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:54 pm
Blackhawk wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:12 pm
I hope you gave them a detailed reason. Enough people dropping subs and citing this reason will have more impact than the news stories if their profit line doesn't budge.

The thing is, we keep talking Blizzard and Blizzard games, but a lot of what's going on is Activision-Blizzard. That includes a lot more games than just WoW, Overwatch, Starcraft, and Diablo. It's not clear if this was just corporate ActiBlizz and Blizzard, or if any of the other studios under their umbrella were involved.
The names that keep getting thrown around are Afrasiabi and Morhaime as well as unnamed people on the World of Warcraft team. I certainly might have missed allegations against other studios, but there's more than enough there to cancel everything in my Blizzard subscriptions. I did give them a reason, and I'll do the same with Activision if the same kind of stuff is happening.
The original article included bits like:
The suit also points to a female Activision employee who took her own life while on a company trip with her male supervisor. The employee had been subjected to intense sexual harassment prior to her death, including having nude photos passed around at a company holiday party, the complaint says.
According to the complaint, filed Tuesday in the Los Angeles Superior Court, female employees make up around 20% of the Activision workforce, and are subjected to a “pervasive frat boy workplace culture,” including “cube crawls,” in which male employees “drink copious amounts of alcohol as they crawl their way through various cubicles in the office and often engage in inappropriate behavior toward female employees.”
What isn't clear is how they're using their terminology. Activision, Blizzard and Activision-Blizzard are related, but not quite the same. To keep it simple, Blizzard (Entertainment) is the in-house development studio that's part of ActiBlizz, while Activision is the publishing arm that handles Blizzard games along with all of their games from other studios. Activision-Blizzard itself is the parent company that owns all of them, along with a few others (King and MLG.) They're calling out Blizzard people by name, and also saying 'Activision' without names, but seem use them interchangeably. We know Blizzard is an issue. Execs at ActiBlizz and/or Activision are also called out, but we're not sure which. It could be all of them. Or some of them. It's kind of a mess until someone sorts through the paperwork.

Of course, the most likely scenario, given the industry and management, is that it's rotten all the way down.

And that brings us to the issue boycotts and the third party developers that aren't part of this, but sell their games through the Activision brand.

In other words, it's a mess. The industry needs to grow the hell up before it sinks.
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
User avatar
gbasden
Posts: 7664
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:57 am
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by gbasden »

Blackhawk wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:35 pm
The suit also points to a female Activision employee who took her own life while on a company trip with her male supervisor. The employee had been subjected to intense sexual harassment prior to her death, including having nude photos passed around at a company holiday party, the complaint says.
Missed that. I don't think I buy many Activision published titles, but I'll look and make sure I don't.
User avatar
noxiousdog
Posts: 24627
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:27 pm
Contact:

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by noxiousdog »

FWIW, the Activision parent company's tone deaf response caused over 1000 employees to sign an open letter to management:
To the Leaders of Activision Blizzard,

We, the undersigned, agree that the statements from Activision Blizzard, Inc. and their legal counsel regarding the DFEH lawsuit, as well as the subsequent internal statement from Frances Townsend, are abhorrent and insulting to all that we believe our company should stand for. To put it clearly and unequivocally, our values as employees are not accurately reflected in the words and actions of our leadership.

We believe these statements have damaged our ongoing quest for equality inside and outside of our industry. Categorizing the claims that have been made as “distorted, and in many cases false” creates a company atmosphere that disbelieves victims. It also casts doubt on our organizations’ ability to hold abusers accountable for their actions and foster a safe environment for victims to come forward in the future. These statements make it clear that our leadership is not putting our values first. Immediate corrections are needed from the highest level of our organization.

Our company executives have claimed that actions will be taken to protect us, but in the face of legal action — and the troubling official responses that followed — we no longer trust that our leaders will place employee safety above their own interests. To claim this is a “truly meritless and irresponsible lawsuit,” while seeing so many current and former employees speak out about their own experiences regarding harassment and abuse, is simply unacceptable.

We call for official statements that recognize the seriousness of these allegations and demonstrate compassion for victims of harassment and assault. We call on Frances Townsend to stand by her word to step down as Executive Sponsor of the ABK Employee Women’s Network as a result of the damaging nature of her statement. We call on the executive leadership team to work with us on new and meaningful efforts that ensure employees — as well as our community — have a safe place to speak out and come forward.

We stand with all our friends, teammates, and colleagues, as well as the members of our dedicated community, who have experienced mistreatment or harassment of any kind. We will not be silenced, we will not stand aside, and we will not give up until the company we love is a workplace we can all feel proud to be a part of again. We will be the change.
Regardless of Activision's participation, which I assume was bad, the executive response is, to me, the worst part. There's always going to be bad people. It's what the management does about it. Since they didn't bother to apologize or take responsibility, but instead blamed California they deserve the center spot of culpability.
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82091
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by Isgrimnur »

gbasden wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:44 pm
Blackhawk wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:35 pm
The suit also points to a female Activision employee who took her own life while on a company trip with her male supervisor. The employee had been subjected to intense sexual harassment prior to her death, including having nude photos passed around at a company holiday party, the complaint says.
Missed that. I don't think I buy many Activision published titles, but I'll look and make sure I don't.
Image
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70101
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by LordMortis »

Lorini wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:59 pm
LordMortis wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:35 pm Didn't have to find out what's up this morning. Drove someone to suicide? That's good enough for me. Activision hasn't seen a dime from me in a long time (Diablo II and multiple copies as that) but now that's moved from happenstance to official. I only hope all the smaller indie dev games I've bought don't contribute to such nonsense as these AAA publishers/Devs seem to be doing.
(Un?)fortunately most indie devs appear to be males.
That won't phase me. But what would phase me is more and more discovery of openly hostile work places or using your profession to promote your... bigotry, misogyny, xenophobia, etc... To at least some extent, I don't even have a problem with "boys will be boys" up until being a boy is at the expense of another. Then the golden rule is broken and that's what I can't knowingly contribute to.
User avatar
noxiousdog
Posts: 24627
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:27 pm
Contact:

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by noxiousdog »

Sudy wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:31 am At the moment I don't see this affecting my buying decisions, though I'm willing to reconsider. Blizzard games continue to be a huge part of my entertainment life, and this is extremely frustrating and disappointing no matter how common or expected it may be.
Not to turn this into R&P, but how much bad behavior would it take for it to affect your buying decisions? There's already a suicide involved.

Also, this:
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
User avatar
noxiousdog
Posts: 24627
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:27 pm
Contact:

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by noxiousdog »

https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1srp3fb

NSFW story
Spoiler:
Jeff Donais, who at the time was the head of CDev, was shaking a shake weight in his office when I walked past in the hallway. He stopped to make a joke about how I should give the shake weight a try in case I ever needed the talent for giving hand jobs in the future.
When I first started working at Blizzard someone found my DeviantArt page. I was a nude model during college and posted my work there. They started an email chain with a link to my modeling and shared it around the office. By my second week at work everyone on the floor had seen me naked. The rumors about it followed me for the rest of my time at the company.

The harassment didn't stop at work and it wasn't just harassment. Assault happened too. Men would pretend to be your friend and then assault you when you felt safe. I have been groped, coerced, and forced into sexual situations at the homes of coworkers and Blizzard events like BlizzCon and holiday parties. Men not taking "no" as an answer and pushing for sex once they had me alone with them. These are the kinds of people that Blizzard would hire. These are the kinds of people who got promoted and were put in positions of power. These people were the main culprits for the toxic culture of Blizzard.

...

I consider myself to be one of the lucky ones. Other women were put through far worse than I was. I believe every woman who has spoken on this issue thus far. Blizzard needs to be held accountable for what was done and what is still happening. I don't believe that those at the top had no idea what was happening. They knew. They enabled it, and it's long past time for change
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
User avatar
Sudy
Posts: 8275
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 3:11 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by Sudy »

noxiousdog wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:41 am Not to turn this into R&P, but how much bad behavior would it take for it to affect your buying decisions? There's already a suicide involved.
I don't know, how much should? Should we not watch Polanski movies? I'm not being contrary; I often ask myself and others these questions, and I don't know the answer, or if there's a universal one. (I sure as hell don't want anything to do with Marilyn Manson anymore, but then I never liked him much to begin with... I just enjoyed some of his tunes. But now I can't stand the idea of listening to him.)

Is not buying the company's product sending them a message? What if I continue playing Hearthstone every day but just don't buy anything? Are these the right actions? Or just the only ones we have? It's a bit different, but there are many other destructive companies I pour money into. What about the "good" people still working for this corporation? Presumably a boycott won't actually be big enough to shut the company down, so then is there any point at all? A glowy feeling? And if it does shut the company down, was that the right thing to do? This culture needs to be challenged everywhere. What are the best ways to do that? Other than calling it out and not participating in it oneself, obviously.

I saw a commercial on late night TV. It said, "Forget everything you know about slipcovers." So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were. -- Mitch Hedberg
User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 54567
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by Smoove_B »

An point to note from the person you linked to ND:


The culture needs to shift and the community is part of that. If all the considerate players leave Blizzard games, then only toxic people remain and nothing changes. If players stick around it allows us to talk about these issues, to stand up to toxic players, and support women. It's a valid choice to end your support for Blizzard, especially considering their official response. However, I will continue to play Blizzard games and support the company. There are people fighting for change from within and don't deserve to be punished for Blizzard's failure.
I had the same initial reaction yesterday as many others - that there was a link to my money (not that I'm a subscriber) and then my tacit approval (worst) or ignoring (best) what has been reported. However, I do think there's some validity to what it would mean to the greater community if only toxic, apathetic players remain. Granted, the company as a whole needs to show that they're taking this seriously but I think I can at least get comfortable with the idea that abandoning a community-based organization can have unintended consequences.

In that, it's a lot like the OO forums. I'd argue banning trolls and trouble makers is important, but the community overall is more diminished when positive/helpful/insightful/influential community members leave.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
User avatar
noxiousdog
Posts: 24627
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:27 pm
Contact:

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by noxiousdog »

My thought process is this: shareholders and the board of directors are watching every subscription and login. If their capital is put at risk, they'll clean out upper management and appease the masses. If it's not; they won't.

Every other company where this is going on is watching too.
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
User avatar
Sudy
Posts: 8275
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 3:11 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by Sudy »

Will they make that connection? Perhaps if the numbers are significant enough. But I imagine they'd rather sell the company off as scrap than fix it if they're in any actual jeopardy.

I saw a commercial on late night TV. It said, "Forget everything you know about slipcovers." So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were. -- Mitch Hedberg
User avatar
noxiousdog
Posts: 24627
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:27 pm
Contact:

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by noxiousdog »

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:05 am An point to note from the person you linked to ND:

I had the same initial reaction yesterday as many others - that there was a link to my money (not that I'm a subscriber) and then my tacit approval (worst) or ignoring (best) what has been reported. However, I do think there's some validity to what it would mean to the greater community if only toxic, apathetic players remain. Granted, the company as a whole needs to show that they're taking this seriously but I think I can at least get comfortable with the idea that abandoning a community-based organization can have unintended consequences.

In that, it's a lot like the OO forums. I'd argue banning trolls and trouble makers is important, but the community overall is more diminished when positive/helpful/insightful/influential community members leave.
If you knew a company was openly using slave labor, would you buy anything from them? Why should there be a difference?
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
User avatar
noxiousdog
Posts: 24627
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:27 pm
Contact:

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by noxiousdog »

Sudy wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:10 am Will they make that connection? Perhaps if the numbers are significant enough. But I imagine they'd rather sell the company off as scrap than fix it if they're in any actual jeopardy.
Why would shareholders want to take a 50% loss? BP didn't close shop when they spilled oil in the Gulf. Volkswagen didn't close shop when they faked emissions tests.
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
User avatar
Skinypupy
Posts: 20334
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:12 am
Location: Utah

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by Skinypupy »

I don't consider myself to be part of Blizzard's "community" in any sense, as I don't really play their MP games (even in my brief forays into WoW, I never actually talked to anyone), participate on their forums or other social media, or interact with other users of their products in any way whatsoever. All my time with Diablo, Starcraft, and Warcraft have been single player only. So the only effect I could possibly have on their "culture" as a consumer would be to not buy their products.

That's where I'm at right now. I will hold off buying anything from them until I see what their response and actions will be moving forward.
When darkness veils the world, four Warriors of Light shall come.
User avatar
noxiousdog
Posts: 24627
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:27 pm
Contact:

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by noxiousdog »

Sudy wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:10 am Will they make that connection? Perhaps if the numbers are significant enough.
Indeed. And which side of the significant numbers should you be on?
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
User avatar
Sudy
Posts: 8275
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 3:11 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by Sudy »

noxiousdog wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:10 am
Sudy wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:10 am Will they make that connection? Perhaps if the numbers are significant enough. But I imagine they'd rather sell the company off as scrap than fix it if they're in any actual jeopardy.
Why would shareholders want to take a 50% loss?
Is 50% coming from somewhere or is that just an example?

If it's worth fixing, they have to believe their actions will have a significant enough effect to get those numbers back. But if you're saying boycott is the only possible action to sway them from denial to corrective action, I get it. But could we even trust it? I trust few actions for which money is the primary motivation.

I saw a commercial on late night TV. It said, "Forget everything you know about slipcovers." So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were. -- Mitch Hedberg
User avatar
noxiousdog
Posts: 24627
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:27 pm
Contact:

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by noxiousdog »

Sudy wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:14 am
noxiousdog wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:10 am
Sudy wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:10 am Will they make that connection? Perhaps if the numbers are significant enough. But I imagine they'd rather sell the company off as scrap than fix it if they're in any actual jeopardy.
Why would shareholders want to take a 50% loss?
Is 50% coming from somewhere or is that just an example?

If it's worth fixing, they have to believe their actions will have a significant enough effect to get those numbers back. But if you're saying boycott is the only possible action to sway them from denial to corrective action, I get it. But could we even trust it? I trust few actions for which money is the primary motivation.
50% is an example, but fairly common in a corporate liquidation.

I have no idea if a boycott would be effective, but as folks have mentioned, only the degree of this is surprising. It's the perfect example of toxic masculinity in an industry that is most at risk for it. We shrugged when it happened at Ubisoft. We shrugged when it happened at Riot. It's time to try something different.

I get that it sucks. Blizzard probably has 80% of my gaming time since Warcraft II was released. I just recently got back into raiding in WoW with a really good guild. But change the abuse and how would you react to it? If it was slavery would you still associate with Activision Blizzard? Why is rape and suicide any different?
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
User avatar
Lorini
Posts: 8282
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:52 am
Location: Santa Clarita, California

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by Lorini »

This behavior is illegal. No one has to do a damn thing to make it stop because if Activision/Blizzard wants to stay in business this behavior will cease immediately. Which is the entire point of the California suit, is to make them stop the hostile work environment.

Now, unsubbing or not buying their products can send a personal message to them (personal in the sense that they have lost a player). Which many have done and will do.

I on the other hand have decided that I will support the employees by continuing to play the games they worked so hard on.

El Guapo/Imlawboy can let us know if the women who were affected by this behavior can sue both Activision-Blizzard and the people responsible. My understanding is that they can, but I am not a lawyer (just worked in compliance for 13 years).
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
noxiousdog
Posts: 24627
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:27 pm
Contact:

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by noxiousdog »

Lorini wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:49 am This behavior is illegal. No one has to do a damn thing to make it stop because if Activision/Blizzard wants to stay in business this behavior will cease immediately. Which is the entire point of the California suit, is to make them stop the hostile work environment.

Now, unsubbing or not buying their products can send a personal message to them (personal in the sense that they have lost a player). Which many have done and will do.

I on the other hand have decided that I will support the employees by continuing to play the games they worked so hard on.

El Guapo/Imlawboy can let us know if the women who were affected by this behavior can sue both Activision-Blizzard and the people responsible. My understanding is that they can, but I am not a lawyer (just worked in compliance for 13 years).
If you do not send a message to the board of directors and shareholders, nothing will change. They'll pay the fine and move on.

They just promoted one of Trump's bullies to CFO. They will not care unless it hits them in the pocketbook.
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
User avatar
coopasonic
Posts: 20969
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:43 pm
Location: Dallas-ish

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by coopasonic »

I kind of get it. I work directly with my employer's Women In Tech organization. I manage women in a technology organization. This still feels kind of distant to me, like what can I can do about it? I think when it is just text on a page it doesn't feel as real as if you know someone involved. I do have a (male) friend that left Blizzard a few weeks ago, interesting timing there, but that's not really the same. I can pretty easily join the boycott as Diablo 4 is all I would be giving up, whenever that comes along and looking at the Activision catalog, Sekiro (and a shit-ton of Skylanders but the kids are past that) is the thing I have bought from them in about the past decade so minimal impact to me so it's easy to say I am on the boycott train but for whatever reason I don't feel very motivated by the articles. I know I should be but I don't know why except that it is just not personal. On the other hand, I cried repeatedly at just the thought of George Floyd's death and I don't know why that hit me.
-Coop
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55316
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:05 am An point to note from the person you linked to ND:


The culture needs to shift and the community is part of that. If all the considerate players leave Blizzard games, then only toxic people remain and nothing changes. If players stick around it allows us to talk about these issues, to stand up to toxic players, and support women. It's a valid choice to end your support for Blizzard, especially considering their official response. However, I will continue to play Blizzard games and support the company. There are people fighting for change from within and don't deserve to be punished for Blizzard's failure.
This strikes me as justification to continue playing. So what if just toxic players remain? It will die a quick death and that's that. Should I still bank at Wells Fargo because they have ethical tellers and branch managers trying to do right by their customers? When corporate leadership continues to profit on unethical practices?


noxiousdog wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:51 am
Lorini wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:49 am This behavior is illegal. No one has to do a damn thing to make it stop because if Activision/Blizzard wants to stay in business this behavior will cease immediately. Which is the entire point of the California suit, is to make them stop the hostile work environment.

Now, unsubbing or not buying their products can send a personal message to them (personal in the sense that they have lost a player). Which many have done and will do.

I on the other hand have decided that I will support the employees by continuing to play the games they worked so hard on.

El Guapo/Imlawboy can let us know if the women who were affected by this behavior can sue both Activision-Blizzard and the people responsible. My understanding is that they can, but I am not a lawyer (just worked in compliance for 13 years).
If you do not send a message to the board of directors and shareholders, nothing will change. They'll pay the fine and move on.

They just promoted one of Trump's bullies to CFO. They will not care unless it hits them in the pocketbook.
Exactly. Illegal for a corporation doesn't mean jail time. it means slap-on-the-wrist fines.

News of the lawsuit moved the stock marginally ($800M market cap). Outcry over ATVIs tone-deaf defense just lopped off $5,500M. Cancelling subs will make a difference.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
noxiousdog
Posts: 24627
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:27 pm
Contact:

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by noxiousdog »

Here's how to make a difference if you don't want to unsubscribe: contact the largest shareholders, who happen to be mutual funds, and tell them you will be selling their shares if they do not sell or force changes.
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
User avatar
Lorini
Posts: 8282
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:52 am
Location: Santa Clarita, California

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by Lorini »

noxiousdog wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:11 pm Here's how to make a difference if you don't want to unsubscribe: contact the largest shareholders, who happen to be mutual funds, and tell them you will be selling their shares if they do not sell or force changes.
Except I won't? I need to be able to afford these games? I feel your reaction is over the top ND. I appreciate the passion, but you need to modulate it a bit :D

Like I said, women involved can sue them, California will monitor them for compliance, and continue to fine them if they fail to change.

https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/labor/hara ... vironment/

Can I sue my employer for hostile work environment?

YES
https://www.workingnowandthen.com/hosti ... vironment/

So unless they want endless suits, and it'll be much easier for people harrassed to sue now, they won't continue the behavior. Keep in mind that the key point of hostile work environment is when management/supervisors either participate in it or ignore it, both of which apparently occurred at Blizzard. Does that mean that no one will ever harass there again? No, as individual employees may engage in harassing behavior. HOWEVER as long as when contacted management does something about it to stop the behavior, they will still be in compliance. They almost certainly have to implement compliance behaviors such as requiring all employees to be aware of hostile work environment and providing safe ways for employees to report hostile work environment.

Having seen all of this in action at JPL, I'm not concerned so much about the company going forward, I'm way more concerned about the victims of the harassment, having been a victim multiple times myself.

As an offshoot: Why do you think all these people get fired when they are discovered to by racist and sexist? It's because the employer doesn't want to be sued for hostile work environment!!! Employers don't give a shit about anti-racism and feminism and inclusion, they care about not being found at fault and having to pay fines because they ignored a hostile work environment.
Last edited by Lorini on Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70101
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by LordMortis »

Link from TD Ameritrade. Probably not so good for the shareholders to get this sort of glimpse when they see an 8% decline this morning.

User avatar
noxiousdog
Posts: 24627
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:27 pm
Contact:

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by noxiousdog »

Lorini wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:29 pmI feel your reaction is over the top ND. I appreciate the passion, but you need to modulate it a bit :D
No, I really don't.

I have too many women close to me who have been abused. Not harassed, but abused. I have two daughters that I want to grow up in a world that has as close to 0 of this stuff as possible. You know this better than I do.

Pretending this will go away because it's illegal is like pretending racism will go away because it's illegal. The current president of Activision/Blizzard lost a lawsuit in 2010 for sexual harassment. What changed?
Last edited by noxiousdog on Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
User avatar
Lorini
Posts: 8282
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:52 am
Location: Santa Clarita, California

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by Lorini »

noxiousdog wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:44 pm
Lorini wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:29 pmI feel your reaction is over the top ND. I appreciate the passion, but you need to modulate it a bit :D
No, I really don't.

I have too many women close to me who have been abused. Not harassed, but abused. I have two daughters that I want to grow up in a world that has as close to 0 of this stuff as possible. You know this better than I do.

Pretending this will go away because it's illegal is like pretending racism will go away because it's illegal.
Well first off, racism is not illegal. So the comparison is moot. Discrimination in certain environments and under certain conditions only! is illegal. Anyone anywhere can be as racist as they want to be.

There's tons of evidence that it has gone away (in the sense of complying with the law against hostile work environment) and only you and the rest of the mob saying it won't. I rest my case.
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
noxiousdog
Posts: 24627
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:27 pm
Contact:

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by noxiousdog »

Lorini wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:47 pm There's tons of evidence that it has gone away (in the sense of complying with the law against hostile work environment) and only you and the rest of the mob saying it won't. I rest my case.
Fair enough. Can I quote you on that later?
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
User avatar
Lorini
Posts: 8282
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:52 am
Location: Santa Clarita, California

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by Lorini »

noxiousdog wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:48 pm
Lorini wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:47 pm There's tons of evidence that it has gone away (in the sense of complying with the law against hostile work environment) and only you and the rest of the mob saying it won't. I rest my case.
Fair enough. Can I quote you on that later?
Yes. There won't be a later. I tell you what ND, I'm so confident in this that 1) there won't be any more incidences of management ignoring hostile work environment. Not only that, I'll buy you an Astros jersey of your favorite Astros player if they don't settle this shit out of court and agree to compliance monitoring by the end of the calendar year. And you know how much I hate the Astros!!!!
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
noxiousdog
Posts: 24627
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:27 pm
Contact:

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by noxiousdog »

Lorini wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:51 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:48 pm
Lorini wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:47 pm There's tons of evidence that it has gone away (in the sense of complying with the law against hostile work environment) and only you and the rest of the mob saying it won't. I rest my case.
Fair enough. Can I quote you on that later?
Yes. There won't be a later. I tell you what ND, I'm so confident in this that 1) there won't be any more incidences of management ignoring hostile work environment. Not only that, I'll buy you an Astros jersey of your favorite Astros player if they don't settle this shit out of court and agree to compliance monitoring by the end of the calendar year. And you know how much I hate the Astros!!!!
Ha. XXL.

They put in compliance monitoring "many years ago."
Activision Blizzard wrote: The picture the DFEH paints is not the Blizzard workplace of today. Over the past several years and continuing since the initial investigation started, we’ve made significant changes to address company culture and reflect more diversity within our leadership teams. We’ve updated our Code of Conduct to emphasize a strict non-retaliation focus, amplified internal programs and channels for employees to report violations, including the “ASK List” with a confidential integrity hotline, and introduced an Employee Relations team dedicated to investigating employee concerns. We have strengthened our commitment to diversity, equity and inclusion and combined our Employee Networks at a global level, to provide additional support. Employees must also undergo regular anti-harassment training and have done so for many years.
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
User avatar
Lorini
Posts: 8282
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:52 am
Location: Santa Clarita, California

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by Lorini »

No no no, not shitty ass Kotick supported Activision-Blizzard monitoring. They almost certainly will have to agree to California monitoring, you know, something with some teeth in it. Speaking of Kotick he needs to go. That's a reason to boycott for sure!
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 43496
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by Blackhawk »

I started a related thread on some of the issues of boycott/retaliation/art brought up in this thread (although I've been writing that sucker for a couple of hours, so some of my points have been brought up by other here since then.)
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
User avatar
noxiousdog
Posts: 24627
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:27 pm
Contact:

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by noxiousdog »

Lorini wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:03 pm No no no, not shitty ass Kotick supported Activision-Blizzard monitoring. They almost certainly will have to agree to California monitoring, you know, something with some teeth in it. Speaking of Kotick he needs to go. That's a reason to boycott for sure!
I hope you're right. If they cleaned house at the top, I would be happy to change my mind.
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
User avatar
Lorini
Posts: 8282
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:52 am
Location: Santa Clarita, California

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by Lorini »

noxiousdog wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:10 pm
Lorini wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:03 pm No no no, not shitty ass Kotick supported Activision-Blizzard monitoring. They almost certainly will have to agree to California monitoring, you know, something with some teeth in it. Speaking of Kotick he needs to go. That's a reason to boycott for sure!
I hope you're right. If they cleaned house at the top, I would be happy to change my mind.
THAT's what needs to happen. His ass needs to take the fall for being head of the organization while all of this was happening. I'm hoping internal pressure as well as shareholder pressure will make this happen.
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 43496
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by Blackhawk »

Lorini wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:13 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:10 pm I hope you're right. If they cleaned house at the top, I would be happy to change my mind.
THAT's what needs to happen. His ass needs to take the fall for being head of the organization while all of this was happening. I'm hoping internal pressure as well as shareholder pressure will make this happen.
I'd agree with that. Chop the head* off, replace it with a new one.

*By head, I don't just mean the #1 - I mean the #1 and everybody below that was directly involved or otherwise responsible. This was a team effort, and it needs to be the team that gets replaced.
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
User avatar
noxiousdog
Posts: 24627
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:27 pm
Contact:

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by noxiousdog »

Lorini wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:13 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:10 pm
Lorini wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:03 pm No no no, not shitty ass Kotick supported Activision-Blizzard monitoring. They almost certainly will have to agree to California monitoring, you know, something with some teeth in it. Speaking of Kotick he needs to go. That's a reason to boycott for sure!
I hope you're right. If they cleaned house at the top, I would be happy to change my mind.
THAT's what needs to happen. His ass needs to take the fall for being head of the organization while all of this was happening. I'm hoping internal pressure as well as shareholder pressure will make this happen.
Yes, but. Fran Townshend has to go as well, and everyone else that is mentioned in California's lawsuit. It won't happen. At best, Kotick will resign with a bagful of golden parachute money.
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70101
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by LordMortis »

noxiousdog wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:17 pm Yes, but. Fran Townshend has to go as well, and everyone else that is mentioned in California's lawsuit. It won't happen. At best, Kotick will resign with a bagful of golden parachute money.
From the ignorant outside, the entire board needs to go. But then I'm not the guy out buying Activision products so appeasing me is not on their agenda.
User avatar
noxiousdog
Posts: 24627
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:27 pm
Contact:

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by noxiousdog »

LordMortis wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:21 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:17 pm Yes, but. Fran Townshend has to go as well, and everyone else that is mentioned in California's lawsuit. It won't happen. At best, Kotick will resign with a bagful of golden parachute money.
From the ignorant outside, the entire board needs to go. But then I'm not the guy out buying Activision products so appeasing me is not on their agenda.
It's unlikely the board has any idea what was going on. It's also unlikely any current board members were on the board in 2010 during Kotick's lawsuit.

They don't spend time talking to employees. It's a good case for Germany's model where 20% of the board must be filled with employee representatives; but good luck with that socialism.
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70101
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by LordMortis »

https://investor.activision.com/news-re ... utive-vice
March 2, 2021 at 11:00 AM EST
Download PDF

SANTA MONICA, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Mar. 2, 2021-- Activision Blizzard (NASDAQ: ATVI) announced today that Frances F. Townsend has joined the company as the Executive Vice President for Corporate Affairs and has been appointed by the Board of Directors to serve as Corporate Secretary and Chief Compliance Officer. She also will oversee Government Affairs, Public Policy, and Communications among other corporate functions.
If they didn't know what was happening then they put the pieces in place the the exact response you find unacceptable.
User avatar
noxiousdog
Posts: 24627
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:27 pm
Contact:

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by noxiousdog »

LordMortis wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:29 pm https://investor.activision.com/news-re ... utive-vice
March 2, 2021 at 11:00 AM EST
Download PDF

SANTA MONICA, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Mar. 2, 2021-- Activision Blizzard (NASDAQ: ATVI) announced today that Frances F. Townsend has joined the company as the Executive Vice President for Corporate Affairs and has been appointed by the Board of Directors to serve as Corporate Secretary and Chief Compliance Officer. She also will oversee Government Affairs, Public Policy, and Communications among other corporate functions.
If they didn't know what was happening then they put the pieces in place the the exact response you find unacceptable.
Yep. And her official response shows they don't care.
The DFEH includes distorted, and in many cases false, descriptions of Blizzard’s past. We have been extremely cooperative with the DFEH throughout their investigation, including providing them with extensive data and ample documentation, but they refused to inform us what issues they perceived. They were required by law to adequately investigate and to have good faith discussions with us to better understand and to resolve any claims or concerns before going to litigation, but they failed to do so. Instead, they rushed to file an inaccurate complaint, as we will demonstrate in court. We are sickened by the reprehensible conduct of the DFEH to drag into the complaint the tragic suicide of an employee whose passing has no bearing whatsoever on this case and with no regard for her grieving family. While we find this behavior to be disgraceful and unprofessional, it is unfortunately an example of how they have conducted themselves throughout the course of their investigation. It is this type of irresponsible behavior from unaccountable State bureaucrats that are driving many of the State’s best businesses out of California.
It's California's fault. Not ours.
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
User avatar
Lorini
Posts: 8282
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:52 am
Location: Santa Clarita, California

Re: California sues Blizzard for "Widespread Harassment Of Women"

Post by Lorini »

Given the outcry, I expect a walk back within a week.
Black Lives Matter
Post Reply