OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

All discussions regarding Board, Card, and RPG Gaming, including industry discussion, that don't belong in one of the other gaming forums.

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Skinypupy
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by Skinypupy »

First two chapters of the Lost Ruins of Arnak solo campaign are available. Downloadable from Czech Games site, or you can play via web app

I’ll add this to the ever-growing backlog...
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by hepcat »

I picked up 1565, St. Elmo's Pay: The Great Siege of Malta after reading some decent reviews. It's by the same designer that did Shadows of Kilforth, a game I'm not a big fan of still (although I admit I haven't given it much more than a cursory play through).

I was pleasantly surprised to find a wargame in card format that's fairly simple, yet gives you some decent decision making opportunities consistent with a wargame. It reminds me a lot of Small Box Games' Omen, which is one of my favorite games of all time. However, it has a pretty decent little solo variant in the box that allows you to choose from quite a few difficulty levels after you play for a while.

The artwork is amazingly good, as I expected after seeing Shadows of Kilforth.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by Smoove_B »

I really liked the first one, but as a solo game it fell flat for me. It did seem like it would be a great 2P game, and yeah, the art is bonkers. I wish the artist he had didn't move on, but I think he burned her out with all the Kilforth stuff. She's insanely talented.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by hepcat »

Sounds like Tristan Hall (the designer) has updated the solo rules for this entry in the series, and that he's updating it yet again for the next one. Apparently they're all backwards compatible though.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by Smoove_B »

Ah, I didn't realize it. Never occurred to me he would have tweaked future releases to address the solo element. That was really my only criticism of the game. Well, that and the oversized box (feels like it's sized for the manual).
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by baelthazar »

I got notification that his newest solo game, Veilwraith, is shipping to me. I look forward to getting it soon.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by hepcat »

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:25 pm Ah, I didn't realize it. Never occurred to me he would have tweaked future releases to address the solo element. That was really my only criticism of the game. Well, that and the oversized box (feels like it's sized for the manual).
yeah, a coffin box of that size for essentially a few tokens and two decks of cards is a bit much. I should probably just ditch it. Or combine the other entries in the series into one box (if I decide to continue buying into the series).
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by Smoove_B »

Not really sure what to make of Destinies. I'm still noodling on my experience overall. It reminded me very much of reading a fantasy game book in the sense that I was left with the distinct impression that I'm supposed to play and replay a number of times to find the "optimal" path through the story to be able to "solve" the crisis that was presented to me. Of course, this is a function of how I was playing (challenge) vs freely being able to run around and do whatever (explore).

I actually kinda liked the app (which I normally do not) - the voice overs and ambient sound effects helped with the immersion.

For the suggested starting scenario you're trying to solve a mystery and deal with a monster. I don't know if all the scenarios follow a similar design path. So here, you moving around the map and looking for things. As you do so, you put special tokens on the revealed map tiles to let you know something is there to do. Could be speaking with someone or actually investigating a location. You can see that here:

Enlarge Image

I guess that's technically spoiled, but there's no information - just chits so apologies if I've ruined everything.

To interact with the game world you're going to then use skills - which is the part of the game I really like. Your character has a set skill "level" which corresponds a success when you roll dice. However, it's not just a binary succeed/fail, each skill has multiple chances to earn a success - depending on the total number rolled. If you're really skilled you might be able to get two or three successes by rolling a 9. That same roll for a different skill might only get you one success. As you adventure around you have the potential to improve (or degrade) your skills so your destiny (see what I did there?) is never set in stone. Plus you can acquire cards (items, abilities) that modify die rolls or just add successes.

What's weird is I'm still not sure exactly why the physical board (tiles) and miniatures (small, 15mm) are needed. Sure, it's nice to see them in the real world but at times it felt like I could just move through the app completely and ignore the world tiles. I also don't quite get the minis either. At first I thought they were cool, but digging them out and trying to figure out which one they want me to slap on the map was a bit of a pain. I feel like maybe these could have just been chits, though I suppose it does add another dimension to the game to see them.

Anyway, I need to play it a few more times. It's very lite - which isn't a bad thing. Quick to learn and it feels like maybe a good family game. Possibly the only negative element is that in theory I could solo the entire game by myself (which would likely be ~30 hours of content), but then if I tried playing with others, I'd know not only what my character needs to do but their characters as well. I could fix this by only playing selected characters and then not choosing them in a 2 player game, but I don't know if that's really a practical solution.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by Lorini »

It's a long thread so sorry if this has been discussed before but does anyone play Cloudspire solo?
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by baelthazar »

Lorini wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:18 am It's a long thread so sorry if this has been discussed before but does anyone play Cloudspire solo?
I have and I own all the old and new stuff. It is quite fun, if you like a strong puzzle aspect to games. They basically set up a series of scenarios in the solo book (and there are LOTS of them) and you then take your faction (the one given to you in the scenario) and try to beat your pre-setup enemy. The biggest issues I have are the setup time (you have to put a lot of effort into building the map and setting up your enemy) and the fact that you have to control the AI for both your troops and the enemy troops.

What I mean by that last comment is a bit complicated. Since Cloudspire plays like a tower defense, your normal rank-and-file troops proceed based on a simple decision tree (which consists of "move on a path with least resistance to reach the enemy base, stop to attack, attack closest enemy, etc."). So this is already a lot of "automation" to manage, and you have to do it with both sides. It is easy once you get used to it, but feels a little dry. The more interesting player decisions are in what you build and how to move your heroes. So a lot goes into the prepping for each turn, then you sort of watch it go.

The biggest drawback is that the game is basically a very cool looking optimization puzzle. Since the scenarios are hard-coded (with enemy troops and factions listed) your main goal is to find the perfect build and deployment to overcome the enemy position. It is loads of fun, but replayability is based on how much you think you could improve your optimization. In a sense, once you have found a solution, then you have it (although there are random variables to keep each playthrough fresh).

That said, it is fun. And there are lots of scenarios that include all of the factions. They also have an "endless" mode where you can just play sandbox with waves of enemies. So if I sound critical, it is just to make sure you know what you are getting with Cloudspire.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by Lorini »

Cool, thanks. Looking forward to it.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by Smoove_B »

Since my updated Middara materials still haven't arrived (true story), I picked up some other solo games this weekend:

Enlarge Image

Hadrian's Wall is a "flip and write" that has been getting really insanely positive reviews for solo play. I'm still new to this genre of games, but also completely powerless against hype. I was fearing it would be out of print soon, so I snagged a copy to try and learn.

Imperium is a deckbuilder with a solo mode by solo guru David Turczi, also coming highly recommended. There's two versions of this game - classic (with historical figures) and fantasy (with fictional characters). The games can be mixed together freely - it's the same set of rules. It's published by Osprey and the card art is really sharp. The box also has a clear plastic insert that includes the deck labels printed on the box underneath. There are a ton of tokens that I'm apparently supposed to jam into a center well (which I hate) but I'm not sure if I can bag them.

Regardless, Imperium looks to be...a bit more challenging than I'd normally attempt, but once again the solo mode is something I'm seeing lots and lots of people praising.

Hoping to dig into both this week and get them to the table by the weekend.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by AWS260 »

I took Oath for a solo spin with the "Clockwork Prince" bot. Play is mostly unchanged, with the bot following this spreadsheet:

Image

It's certainly the most complicated solo mode I've ever encountered. That said, it is logical and puts up a decent fight. It will first identify the biggest threat, and then act to counter that threat.

In this game, the victory condition (the oath) was to hold the Darkest Secret. I won by waiting until I had amassed enough resources to not only recover the Darkest Secret, but also to defend it strongly. That meant that the bot spent most of the game in "no threat" mode, in which it focuses on taking over sites all over the map. By the time I took the Darkest Secret, the bot was resource-poor with its forces spread thin, without enough time to regroup before I won the game.

As a solo game, I'm not sure the juice is worth the squeeze. But the bot is also intended to serve as a third faction in a two-player game, and I think it could actually work well in that context. Oath thrives on player interaction, and having a bot to provide more competition and friction could help a lot.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by hepcat »

Smoove_B wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:24 pm Since my updated Middara materials still haven't arrived (true story), I picked up some other solo games this weekend:

Enlarge Image

Hadrian's Wall is a "flip and write" that has been getting really insanely positive reviews for solo play. I'm still new to this genre of games, but also completely powerless against hype. I was fearing it would be out of print soon, so I snagged a copy to try and learn.

Imperium is a deckbuilder with a solo mode by solo guru David Turczi, also coming highly recommended. There's two versions of this game - classic (with historical figures) and fantasy (with fictional characters). The games can be mixed together freely - it's the same set of rules. It's published by Osprey and the card art is really sharp. The box also has a clear plastic insert that includes the deck labels printed on the box underneath. There are a ton of tokens that I'm apparently supposed to jam into a center well (which I hate) but I'm not sure if I can bag them.

Regardless, Imperium looks to be...a bit more challenging than I'd normally attempt, but once again the solo mode is something I'm seeing lots and lots of people praising.

Hoping to dig into both this week and get them to the table by the weekend.
I put in a pre order for Imperium Legends last week with miniature market. I’m a Turczi fan boy so it was a no brainer. Did you order directly from Osprey? I still see it listed as a pre order everywhere else.

I’ve been dancing around Hadrian’s Wall too. I just worry the write portion of it will annoy me, as most of the other write games do.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by Smoove_B »

hepcat wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:04 pm I put in a pre order for Imperium Legends last week with miniature market. I’m a Turczi fan boy so it was a no brainer. Did you order directly from Osprey? I still see it listed as a pre order everywhere else.
Nope. Ordered direct from Amazon (my FLGS) for $40. As of the weekend they had copies of both versions in stock.
I’ve been dancing around Hadrian’s Wall too. I just worry the write portion of it will annoy me, as most of the other write games do.
I've been watching it for over a month, and after really, really enjoying Fleet I decided to give it a go. I've yet to see people say a bad thing about it - in fact, it's been quite the opposite.

Plus it's by Bobby Hill. Every time something goes wrong I'm going to mumble, "Damn it, Bobby!" and stare menacingly at my neighbors propane tank.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by baelthazar »

I checked with Cardhaus (online and local FLGS) and they said Imperium Classic and Legends will be available June 16 at retail. Right now, you have to order it from Osprey or Osprey's Amazon store. While I hate waiting, I got them for $27 each rather than $40 and that was still $14 less with shipping.

I'm excited for them, but with Middara, Veilwraith, and Trickerion, I am not exactly hurting for games.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by hepcat »

Smoove does not simply wait for games like us mere peasants!

Oh...wait...
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by Smoove_B »

Veilwraith just arrived. As the first (?) solo only game by Tristan Hall, I'm excited. Not that Gloom of Kilforth is bad, but I'm curious to see how this plays. Unofficially it looks to be faster.

Also, my Middara update pack arrived today as well. So yeah, a little over a month from when they started shipping. That's perfectly reasonable.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by YellowKing »

Have a copy of BLOODBORNE coming in today. I broke down and ordered it last week because it was a historic low at Miniature Market, and I'm a big fan of the video game so the theme was appealing. Also, based on the playthroughs I've watched, it seemed to have a lot in common mechanically with CTHULHU:DEATH MAY DIE which is perhaps my favorite CMON game.

I don't really need another dungeon crawler right now with Middara on my plate, but I do like that it's non-dice based (which I'm always intrigued by in dungeon crawlers). I also like that it has a ton of expansions, and I'm a sucker for games with a lot of content. Chances are slim I'll get it to the table anytime soon, but considering all my other games are packed up for the move I may break down one night and run through a scenario or two just to see how it plays. If I do I'll post some impressions.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by YellowKing »

Some quick BLOODBORNE impressions after setting it up just to mess around:

One reason I bought the game is that I love unique combat mechanics, and Bloodborne's is certainly unique. It's pretty simple - you play a card into one of your 3 weapon slots, which commits you to an attack at the speed of that slot. Then the enemy reveals their attack and you resolve the results in fastest-to-slowest attack speed. When the enemy activates and attacks you, you can still use remaining cards to counterattack.

The trick is knowing when to engage, and when to let the enemy come to you. It's extremely tactical, and you'll never have the ability to kill everything on the map since it's all going to respawn after a certain number of rounds anyway. Your goal is to somehow complete the missions under the time given and just plain survive while hopefully improving your combat deck along the way.

It's HARD. If you go in thinking of it as a typical dungeon crawler, as the meme goes "You're gonna have a bad time." This is a big puzzle, and like the videogame, you really have to think about what you're going to do because charging into battle is rarely going to work out well. Death is a big part of the game - it's expected you're going to die, and in some instances that's a good thing because it gives you a chance to reset your health and weapons for free. Figuring out when death is acceptable and when it is not is another big part of the play experience.

It's a really fascinating game, and I'm looking forward to being able to focus more attention on it. For now this was just some quick learning sessions to get a feel for it. The game is playable as a true solo (one hero) experience, but I also want to try it out 2-handed to see if there's an advantage in having another hunter to help split mobs.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by baelthazar »

People... I need talked out of buying Nemesis for solo play. I am a huge fan of Alien and the buzz is strong. But I managed to shy away from it until this recent release, where it is calling me again like a siren.

That said, I have heard it gets pretty "samey" after a while and that, without the backstabbing of the semi-co-op play, solo could be a bit bland.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by TheMix »

I've only played a few games so far. I don't play enough to ever likely run into any blandness.

However, if you want to spare yourself, you could just try the Tabletop Simulator version. It would let you play without sinking the cash. Though you'd miss out on the amazing miniatures.

Oh, and I have never actually tried it solo. I do play it only co-op though. I am really not a fan of "hidden traitor" type mechanics.

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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by Smoove_B »

Wish I could help. I snatched a retail copy at some point over the last 7 months (it's all blurring together) in the hopes it would make it to the table as a semi-coop / hidden traitor game. If it didn't have a solo option I never would have purchased it, but I'm not really sure that I will play solo (other than to learn the game).

My impression is that it's all about the story and the randomness of how things unfold, so if that's something you like, I think there's solo potential there. How repetitive it gets, I don't know, but I'm guessing that's what all the expansions are for. I'm not sure I've seen it recommended as a solo-only must have game. Where it gets weird is that I think unless they do another KS, it's going to be nearly impossible to find at some point. If that matters to you I don't know.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by baelthazar »

Smoove_B wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:48 pm I'm not sure I've seen it recommended as a solo-only must have game. Where it gets weird is that I think unless they do another KS, it's going to be nearly impossible to find at some point. If that matters to you I don't know.
I've seen opinions on both sides, that is sucks solo only and that it is top solo game (I mean, this is normal boardgamer opinion wars). I am thinking about "trading" my Tainted Grail Red Death and Age of Legends for a copy of Nemesis. But that seems strange because I would be trading add-ons for an excellent solo game for a less excellent one.

But I have terrible FOMO, so that is what fuels this.

I would try Tabletop Simulator, but I just don't get the same visceral reaction. That said, if I am unwilling to take the time to do that, it probably says something.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by Smoove_B »

I think it comes down to how you feel about the movie Alien and a game that is very clearly a love-letter to that movie. It's brutally difficult and filled with (potentially) frustrating random elements that might completely dictate how the story ends. I play games for the stories that emerge, so this is a great fit for me. I love Robinson Crusoe but I believe I've only won the game a single time. Losing a game over and over again doesn't bother me if the experience is fun, and that's my impression of Nemesis.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by hepcat »

I played a bit of War of the Worlds: France this afternoon, and I have to say it's a in impressive little solo game.

It's from Dan Verssen Games (DVG) so the quality is not the greatest, but at least it's not Pavlov's House levels of crap. I picked it up a few weeks ago during a clearance sale at miniature market for 20 bucks. Normally it's a 60 to 70 dollar game. I had always wanted to try it as I'm a War of the Worlds nut, and at that price it felt doable.

First thing I'll say about the game: the rulebook is shit. It's just really, really awful. I had to use BGG to get even the basics of setup down. But after a bit of research, even the shitty rules started to make sense.

At its core, it's an area control game with a tactical wargame component that allows you to gain control of areas. It has a LOT of theme. That's my first compliment. It just oozes with it. Every action just feels like I'm holding off the Martian invasion.

In short, you have a phase track that consists of a production phase (generate production to buy units, factories, battle plans), then a devastation phase where the martians attack the zone their occupying (creating refugees, destroying production, bringing in more tripods), followed by a battle phase where you attack the aliens on a land map (a separate little map that you place tripod standees on and then move them around according to a simple card AI), an escape phase follows in which you try to get your refugees onto ships and out of France (in my version), then a human phase followed by a martian phase (where you can move your units and the martians then move or create more tripods). Finally, you have an assembly phase where the cylinders that the Martians shot at Earth can potentially generate more waves of tripods.

There's a LOT going on at any one time, and the game is punishingly hard. You have to really plan each phase carefully in order to fight off the Martians. Battle plans you can purchase with production can help turn the tide of a land or naval battle (naval battles occur during the escape phase as the tripods pursue your refugees as they try to escape via ships at harbors), your infantry can set powder kegs on zones to try to destroy incoming tripods, and your cavalry can try to distract tripods away from production centers.

The game was released in various formats (France, England, Japan) but each of them are basically the same game with just some VERY slight mechanic changes. Not enough to warrant owning more than one, in my opinion. I don't know if I'd pay 60 bucks for this game considering the quality and the crappy rules, but for 40 or less I think it's a fantastic, light wargame that any fan of H.G. Wells would love.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by hepcat »

Skinypupy wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:47 pm “Hey, that new version of Descent looks really cool! Descent 2nd edition is easily in my top three games of all time, so I’ll definitely be all in on this!”

::Sees price tag of $175 for the base game::
Sigh...I'm already eyeing pre orders on this one, in spite of my earlier protestations. It does appear the retail at online sites is closer to 140 dollars though.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by Smoove_B »

hepcat wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:37 am Sigh...I'm already eyeing pre orders on this one, in spite of my earlier protestations. It does appear the retail at online sites is closer to 140 dollars though.
Deliveries are so screwed up that people in Australia and parts of the EU had their copies delivered in June, but Asmodee/FFG won't release the app to play until the official North American release date, allegedly happening in August.

I was originally going to buy this, but I really haven't enjoyed too much from Fantasy Flight lately. That same $150-175 is going to go towards the GameFound reprint of Chronicles of Drunagor, which seems to have maintained it's excellent rating for solo play.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by Skinypupy »

I think Middara has broken me.

I played the hell out of it for the first week, and thoroughly enjoyed it. It has sat on my table - mostly unplayed (I ran through one scenario) - since then

Not only do I have no real desire to play Middara, I've had no desire to play any board games at all. I haven't purchased anything, or really even considered purchasing anything (browsing Amazon for game sales used to be a daily thing). Haven't watched any board game videos or read any reviews. For some reason, my interest in board gaming has completely stopped like it ran into a damn brick wall.

I did get connected with a new neighbor when our wives were complaining about their husband's board game collections at church. We're gonna shoot for a couples gaming night later in July, and I'm hoping that gets the gaming engine going again. Because right now...nada.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by hepcat »

I've had times like that. It's only natural. You burn out for a bit, then it comes back (at least for me).
That same $150-175 is going to go towards the GameFound reprint of Chronicles of Drunagor, which seems to have maintained it's excellent rating for solo play.
Well now, I do think I need to look in on this one.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by Anonymous Bosch »

Skinypupy wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:35 pm I think Middara has broken me.

I played the hell out of it for the first week, and thoroughly enjoyed it. It has sat on my table - mostly unplayed (I ran through one scenario) - since then

Not only do I have no real desire to play Middara, I've had no desire to play any board games at all. I haven't purchased anything, or really even considered purchasing anything (browsing Amazon for game sales used to be a daily thing). Haven't watched any board game videos or read any reviews. For some reason, my interest in board gaming has completely stopped like it ran into a damn brick wall.

I did get connected with a new neighbor when our wives were complaining about their husband's board game collections at church. We're gonna shoot for a couples gaming night later in July, and I'm hoping that gets the gaming engine going again. Because right now...nada.
Personally, solo tabletop gaming has never quite held the same appeal for me as playing with others. I'm not completely averse to solo games, and do enjoy playing them sporadically. But in my experience, playing solitary tabletop games on a frequent basis inevitably begins to feel more akin to a chore in comparison to the ease of playing a decent single-player PC game. Because realistically, I rarely tend to come away from a solo tabletop gaming session with a similar sense of satisfaction as a gaming session with others that goes well.

So, a couples gaming session with your new neighbours may well rekindle your interest. Tread carefully when you're just starting out though, and try to keep things simple & straightforward. In that sense, I'd highly recommend opening with tried and true gateway games, e.g. 7 Wonders, Ticket to Ride, Sushi Go!, Codenames, Love Letter, Splendor etc.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." — P. J. O'Rourke
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by Blackhawk »

Solo gaming, to me, has always had the same appeal as something like working a puzzle. It's an activity where I can devise solutions to problems with all of the tools laid out in front of me - as opposed to spread around the table in front of others.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by hepcat »

Solo gaming for me is a fantastic excuse to get day drunk.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by Smoove_B »

Skinypupy wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:35 pm Because right now...nada.
This has been me since (checks calendar) April of 2020. Nothing has stopped me from getting more games, but it's a matter of mental motivation. I just feel perpetually exhausted.

When helped shake me out a little bit was completely trying something new - namely Fleet a few months ago and then trying to learn Fields of Fire by having someone teach me via Tabletop Simulator. I still enjoy reading manuals and organizing, so I guess it's not exactly the same, but I'm guessing it's some level of burnout. I've lost track of the number of games I've set up and played a few rounds and then put away. Or the games I've set up and then a week later, they haven't been touched. It's been an interesting year.

Regardless, there's nothing wrong with taking a little break.
hepcat wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:04 pm Solo gaming for me is a fantastic excuse to get day drunk.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by YellowKing »

Oh I run into that brick wall ALL THE TIME.

I've learned not to try to force it. Go on to some other hobby, take a break. It will be there waiting for you when the urge strikes again. Skipping from brick wall to brick wall is how I normally operate. The key is to not feel guilty about it. Just recognize it as part of being human and move on to the next thing.

I regularly bounce between board gaming, painting, video gaming, and reading/comic books. Rarely am I doing more than one or two of those at the same time.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by Skinypupy »

YellowKing wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 3:55 pm The key is to not feel guilty about it.
Therein lies the challenge. I just spent a shitload (relatively) on this game that is really good - not to mention all the other games - and feel really guilty that I’m not having any motivation to play it at all. Like there’s something wrong with me for not really digging something that should be right up my alley. I mean, Middara is the board game equivalent of Final Fantasy that I waited on for nearly two years…how can I not be completely hooked?!

I think I may actually box Middara back up for a bit. Maybe clearing the game table will reduce the guilt (out of sight, out of mind), and perhaps get the kids back interested in games again if they know they don’t have to clear dads mess off the table. My brother is also in town next week, and he’s always up for a few games. I’m mostly just afraid that if I put it away, I won’t get it back out again. It’s happened three times now with big campaign games like this (Gloomhaven, Descent, and Journeys in Middle Earth) where it just never really hits the table again because I don’t muster up the energy to either re-learn or restart.

I have been getting into a few pretty deep PS4 RPGs lately (first Mass Effect and now Trails of Cold Steel) which is taking up most of my headspace right now. I’m also trying to get to bed earlier so I can get up to run at 5:30am, which means about an hour less evening gaming time. Plus, it’s my busiest time of the year at work and I’m doing 10-12 hour days, so my mental energy when I do finally get time to play is pretty low. Ok…so maybe the lack of motivation is really not such a mystery. :lol:

Anyways, I’m just rambling.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by hepcat »

Smoove_B wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:24 pm Imperium is a deckbuilder with a solo mode by solo guru David Turczi, also coming highly recommended.
Got my copy today. I tried reading the rules over lunch and I swear to god, I have zero understanding of what they're trying to do in this game. There are like 2,382 different types of cards (which is pretty impressive considering each deck consists of about 3 cards or something) and they all do something. I think some only do something on certain days of the week or when it's raining outside. I'm just completely confused at this point.
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by Smoove_B »

I'm 100% with you. I think I'm in over my head on Imperium. Then again, I've also noticed that over the last year or so, I am having real problems processing rule books. I am the kind of person that loves to read rules and game systems, so this was a bit of a confusing development for me. Lately, I just can't learn games anymore unless I skim the rules first and then follow a hyper-detailed Youtube video of someone narrating a game session.

I just had to do it with Hadrian's Wall and after watching someone play for about an hour, I finally get it. But just the manual? I was like WTF is all this?

Imperium seems like there's a ton of stuff to take care of to run the game's AI / bot, but there's also a ridiculous amount of depth in learning the different factions.

I need to find a video that works for me or unfortunately, yeah, it's going to be be moving on. :(
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by Anonymous Bosch »

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:55 pm I'm 100% with you. I think I'm in over my head on Imperium. Then again, I've also noticed that over the last year or so, I am having real problems processing rule books. I am the kind of person that loves to read rules and game systems, so this was a bit of a confusing development for me. Lately, I just can't learn games anymore unless I skim the rules first and then follow a hyper-detailed Youtube video of someone narrating a game session.

I just had to do it with Hadrian's Wall and after watching someone play for about an hour, I finally get it. But just the manual? I was like WTF is all this?

Imperium seems like there's a ton of stuff to take care of to run the game's AI / bot, but there's also a ridiculous amount of depth in learning the different factions.

I need to find a video that works for me or unfortunately, yeah, it's going to be be moving on. :(
Alas, it takes a great deal more skill and effort to write a helpful and effective rulebook than many publishers acknowledge or are willing to pay for (in terms of hiring a competent pro to assist with rulebook editing, like Paul Grogan, the helpful British chap who runs the Gaming Rules! Youtube channel).

So I don't think it's necessarily your fault if you struggle to plow through a tedious, poorly-written or poorly-edited rulebook. The following commentary from the Thoughtful Gamer addressed this problem several years ago:

Please Write Better Rulebooks
thethoughtfulgamer.com wrote:Dear Publishers,

I grow weary. I’m tired of yelling in frustration at your rulebooks. I’m fully willing to admit that the problem is partially my fault–I’m reading more and more rulebooks as I play more new games for The Thoughtful Gamer. Rulebooks aren’t fun to begin with. They’re an obstacle to fun that we only tolerate when they’re necessary. I also typically enjoy heavier games than most, and that means more complicated, harder to write rulebooks. I often rush through them too quickly and miss things that are plainly written, hoping that through the course of my first play I’ll be able to iron out the wrinkles.

But I think you’ve got to shoulder a lot of the blame too. I can’t say if rulebooks are better or worse than they were before, and that doesn’t matter. What matters is when, in a game where you pull chits out of a bag, if “discard” means setting a chit aside or placing it back in the bag. What matters is when there are key words on cards that don’t ever appear in the rulebook. What matters is when I can barely figure out how to even set up your game, or when the rules as printed make the game literally impossible to win.

I’m not alone with this frustration. Earlier this year the Spiel des Jahres committee commented on all of the poor rulebooks they had to suffer through. While some might disagree with their decision to immediately remove from competition any games that didn’t meet their standards for rules, I think it’s a good idea for that award, because it’s designed to be for families and people who aren’t necessarily board game nerds. It’s also the most prestigious award for board games at the moment, and I’m fine if it tries to uphold superior standards in all aspects of production. A rulebook would have to be quite bad before it affects my score, but I can completely sympathize with the committee’s frustrations.

Anyways, I did some thinking and polled people on twitter. Publishers: here are some things you should watch out for with your rulebooks.

1. Please define all of your key terms.
A rulebook has no room for vagueness. Rulebooks are logical documents that should be as clear as possible. They should also account for all of the key words that appear in the game. If I pull a card that tells me I can do something very specific, I should know precisely how that action functions for me in the game. Not thematically, as that can be misinterpreted easily, but mechanically.

This seems like it could go unsaid, but so many times in the past few weeks I’ve been frustratingly flipping through rulebooks trying fruitlessly to figure out what words mean. I suspect the solution to this is simply to monitor some blind playtests, but some publishers maybe don’t bother to test the efficacy of their rulebook?

2. Please provide an iconography guide.
Good rulebooks will simply have this on the back cover so players can easily reference it and figure out what that weird symbol means. A real treat is when everyone gets their own player aid, so no one has to share. But more than once I’ve seen icons explained all throughout the rulebook, which is fine for learning the game, but no reference, which is a pain and a half. Don’t do that!

3. Please don’t overburden your rulebook with fluff.
Look, I enjoy a funny rulebook with all kinds of thematic storytelling, but that kind of stuff should be clearly distinct from the actual rules. A rulebook isn’t just for learning the game, it’s for re-learning a game after it’s been a while since your last play, and for looking up forgotten rules quickly mid-game.

Because rulebooks have to be multi-use, some companies, like Fantasy Flight, have started issuing two rulebooks for their games: a learning guide and a reference book. That works pretty well, but a great rulebook can do everything well in one tome. So keep the jokes and theme off to the side where they can be appreciated on the read through and ignored when trying to find a specific rule.

4. Please use appropriate emphasis.
I’m a bit torn on the traditional wargame rulebook format. It’s exceedingly logically structured and works incredibly well as a reference guide, but learning a wargame for the first time can be needlessly confusing. I’m convinced the major problem is one of emphasis. This isn’t limited to the legal document-style rulebooks either–more prose-style books can have this problem just as easily.

The issue is that when I’m learning to play a game for the first time, I don’t know which rules are crucial to understanding the game and which rules are there only for certain rare mechanical interactions. I also don’t know which rules are going to be unintuitive to a regular game player and which rules function as you might expect.

In wargame rulebooks I often get fatigued by relatively unimportant rules given the same visual emphasis as key foundations to the entire game. There’s only so much mental focus I can give a rulebook when I’m trying to learn a game for the first time, and my main goal is to understand the fundamentals, knowing that I can look up individual situations when the need arises. If I have no way of knowing what the fundamentals are, I waste a lot of time trying to figure that out and end up missing a lot.

In other rulebooks the most common problem is almost the opposite–they tend to bury very key sentences in the middle of large paragraphs with no easy way to find that key statement again when you need to confirm a rule.

The solution to this is tricky, and it takes a good deal of dedication to most effectively highlight the most critical aspects of the rules while making the entire thing work as both a learn to play guide and reference.

5. Please use gender neutral pronouns.
I’m not the most “woke” progressive person in the world by any stretch of the imagination, but I don’t see any reason not to use they/them as pronouns in your rulebook. It’s relatively simple to avoid confusing situations and it avoids the social problems with gendered pronouns as well as sidestepping the clunkiness of “he or she”. Seriously, it’s not a big deal and it’s how we talk anyways.

6. Please hire a pro
Writing rules is difficult. Fortunately there are a number of people out there who write and edit rulebooks professionally. You don’t want the reputation of being that publisher who always has crappy rulebooks, and you don’t want to spend an annoying amount of time on BGG post-release answering easily-avoidable rules questions.

From what I can tell the two most prominent rulebook people are Paul Grogan and Travis D Hill. By all accounts they’re great people, very good at what they do, and don’t charge nearly as much money as they ought. Export the hassle!
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." — P. J. O'Rourke
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Re: OO Solo Board Gamers Guild

Post by Smoove_B »

It's definitely a problem, though I see enough people enjoying or praising the same rule books I'm scratching my head over sometimes I do wonder how much of it is me.

Regardless, without Youtube tutorials and overviews I'm pretty sure I would have stopped board gaming years ago.
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