The Golden Age of the Streaming Wars is Over

[hepcat]

Order online, still paying 10 times or more what it costs to stream AND waiting at least a day...although usually more...and hoping porch pirates don't steal it.

I repeat: I’ll take the current system over the old any day of the week.

[Blackhawk]

A big chunk of the movie purchase market has moved to buying streaming rights. It's nice when you want it now, but it does have downsides. DVDs (Blurays, VHS tapes) aren't permanent (although ripping them can come close enough), but at least the manufacturer won't wander into your house and repossess them. Multiple times. I'm too lazy to dig up links, but multiple companies have done the same. Amazon, for instance, has removed purchased films, and music, and audio books.

We're in an era where people have become so used to the convenience of streaming that companies can mulch their customers, and the customers will keep coming back.

Personally? If I've purchased access to anything, I have no qualms about downloading a 'backup.' Hell, I've done the same thing with series to get away from some of the companies absurd DRM limitations (like limiting resolution to 720 in anything but their designated browser/app - Netflix, for example.)

[hepcat]

That's why you don't buy. You purchase subscriptions for a month or two and stream what you wanna watch and move on.

I have a vudu account and a ton of movies on it that I've purchased over the course of a decade or so, but I rarely purchase a movie these days because of the issue of ownership. Most of the services that do allow you to purchase movies do give you the tools to easily download and archive your purchased movies however. But I'm more and more convinced that ownership of digital media is a sucker's game. The end game for digital content companies is the pay to view model found with streaming services...and I'm including games in that. Some day we'll all just be renting access to digital content stored by media companies.

And I will have a flying car.

[LordMortis]

The end game for digital content companies is the pay to view model found with streaming services...and I'm including games in that.

That's the hard one for me to get to. I haven't purchased any new music since the last time I've been a live show in order to put money directly in the pocket of the musicians while having memento of the evening, similar to how I used to purchase TShirts. Movies and TV shows? LotRs was the last I bought. Video games are harder. I want to be able to revisit old games so not owning them is a hurdle I just haven't been able jump. I get annoyed when I have a key to digital game from service that is long dead an my ownership of the game is worthless. That's where Steam got my loyalty. If they ever lose it, I could see that being strength I need to move to subscription library gaming.

I haven't paid for subscription TV/Movie streaming but I'm getting close. The free services I use are beginning to wear thin and $15 or $20 a month per one service at a time is not an extreme price to pay. I'd finally get to watch the masses of Netflix and HBO shows everyone's raved about going back for forever. I'm not as likely to get Amazon as I hear again and again how hard Amazon is to quit but then we'll see when that time comes.

[hepcat]

Just as an aside, only a few of the services are 15 to 20 bucks or more. Most of them offer lower level, ad supported tiers these days at half or less of that.

And I'm seeing some convergence too. AMC+ is starting to roll all their properties into the AMC+ streaming service. They're even offering the live events for Shudder now. That was something that held me back from jumping entirely to their app for a few years. But they've added all the content of Shudder plus the live tv events, so when my separate shudder account expires, I'll just have my AMC+ subscription. And I got a year of that dirt cheap as part of a holiday sale.

[Rumpy]

Just had a pain-in-the-ass moment with Tubi. I like that you can use the service without registering, but it's handy to register for full access to the features. So, I go ahead and created an account a few days ago. Was easy enough. Here's where things get tricky. Via our Roku Device, I wanted to sign in, and the way they have the app set up, they actually sign you up with an account with the email address assoocatied with the device when you press continue on the sign-in page. This in effect automatically created a new account under device-attached email address, which I didn't want to do. There looked to be no way to just enter an email and password, until I clicked 'cancel' on the sign-in page. So, what I wanted to do was get into my account and find a way to delete the newly created one. But first of all, they require a password. It did not create one or ask me to create one when it automatically created an account for me. I know it's done for convenience, but I feel it's a flaw in their design.

Second, I contacted support to ask for help in deleting the account, to which they said I'd first have to create a password, but without telling me how to create one. In other words, not very helpful. But that gave me an idea of trying to use the 'Forgot Password' function ( which was hidden by the default of mailing the address a login link). Once I did that, I was able to log in use the password I created and delete the account. What a runaround that was.

[hepcat]

That’s less a Tubi issue than it is a streaming device issue. Caching accounts to a device/web browser/etc. has been a thing for years.

[Anonymous Bosch]

FWIW, I'd encourage anyone frustrated with the enshittification of streaming services to put serious consideration towards setting up your own home media server. Because setting up and utilizing a NAS (Network Attached Storage) device as a home media server is a breeze nowadays. With a NAS home media server, all of your media becomes accessible to every device within your home, and even from afar while you’re away from home. Apps like Jellyfin, Plex, and Kodi enable you to organize and stream your media through visually appealing interfaces specifically designed for TVs, so you can use them to roll your very own Netflix-like streaming services. Plex Pass with an OTA antenna and Antenna Tuner Box can provide TiVo-style DVR functionality with no monthly fees (and easily removable/skippable commercials), as explained and demonstrated here:



More importantly, setting up a NAS home media server provides reliable, quick, and effortless access to all of your media, safe in the knowledge that content stored on your server shall remain forever free and unadulterated. In other words, free from any of the shenanigans Blackhawk referred to, in terms of content providers removing or otherwise messing with previously purchased films, music, and audio books etc.

[hepcat]

I love Plex and have a lifetime subscription. But it’s not really an alternative to streaming services unless you already own everything you would watch on streaming services.

And to be fair, I’ve had my fair share of issues with a Plex server after my android tv was updated, or something went south with my server. It’s pretty solid, but it still can be frustratingly time consuming when something does go wrong.

[Kraken]

FWIW, I'd encourage anyone frustrated with the enshittification of streaming services to put serious consideration towards setting up your own home media server.

Heh, because more complication is just what I want for TV.

[Blackhawk]

I have been using Plex for a few years, but have come to despise it lately. In order to actually display content (like shows) correctly, you're required to use a very specific folder structure and naming system. I don't use that particular system, and don't want to - it works for Plex, but makes finding anything by other means a huge pain in the ass. I use(d) Plex to allow me to watch shows that are on my media PC from the TV in the bedroom. Every other way I access the media is via PC - I simply navigate to the shared "Shows" folder and double click the show I want to watch. If I'm watching on Android, I just use a network file browser and do the same.

As a result of me not redesigning my entire collection to Plex's specifications, half of the time I try to open one thing, and have it open something else instead (like, say, trying to open an episode of Buffy in Plex opens an episode of Mad Men instead.)

And every bit of research I've done on how to solve it comes down to the simple statement that If you want to use Plex, you have to use Plex's naming/organization conventions.

So, yeah - time for something new.

[Anonymous Bosch]

FWIW, I'd encourage anyone frustrated with the enshittification of streaming services to put serious consideration towards setting up your own home media server. Because setting up and utilizing a NAS (Network Attached Storage) device as a home media server is a breeze nowadays.

Heh, because more complication is just what I want for TV.

FTFY. Again, it really isn't that complicated; all the more so for those of us here, familiar with PC gaming and the like.

[Kraken]

FWIW, I'd encourage anyone frustrated with the enshittification of streaming services to put serious consideration towards setting up your own home media server. Because setting up and utilizing a NAS (Network Attached Storage) device as a home media server is a breeze nowadays.

Heh, because more complication is just what I want for TV.

FTFY. Again, it really isn't that complicated; all the more so for those of us here, familiar with PC gaming and the like.

I'm still only grudgingly comfortable with TV being in color.

[hepcat]

Have you thought about going back to books?

[hepcat]

I have been using Plex for a few years, but have come to despise it lately. In order to actually display content (like shows) correctly, you're required to use a very specific folder structure and naming system. I don't use that particular system, and don't want to - it works for Plex, but makes finding anything by other means a huge pain in the ass. I use(d) Plex to allow me to watch shows that are on my media PC from the TV in the bedroom. Every other way I access the media is via PC - I simply navigate to the shared "Shows" folder and double click the show I want to watch. If I'm watching on Android, I just use a network file browser and do the same.

Maybe I'm just being dense, but I’m not sure I understand what you’re doing here. I have used Plex for years. While they suggest setting up a series of shows with a specific folder structure, I haven’t actually done that for years. I just toss all tv shows into a folder called tv and all movies into a folder called movies. Plex is smart enough to display them correctly 99 percent of the time in its UI.

As for searching for shows directly from the folders, why aren’t you using the Plex client or accessing your media through the client interface via any web browser. I can easily and quickly find whatever I want to watch in seconds using the Plex client UI. What you’re doing sounds like someone installing steam, downloading all their games, and then opening those games by searching for the executables in the steam apps folder every time they want to play a game. Why wouldn’t you just open it from steam?

[gilraen]

I just toss all tv shows into a folder called tv and all movies into a folder called movies. Plex is smart enough to display them correctly 99 percent of the time in its UI.

I think that's the key, it needs to know whether it's a movie or a TV show when it scrapes metadata, so it needs those 2 separate top directories. Beyond that, it also helps to include the year in the folder name - so like "Buffy the Vampire Slayer (1997)" - and then have subfolders named "Season 1", "Season 2", etc.

I don't use Plex (not only are they turning into a privacy nightmare, they have their own slowly advancing level of enshittification). But I use Jellyfin, and the rules behind naming conventions are the same.

Because setting up and utilizing a NAS (Network Attached Storage) device as a home media server is a breeze nowadays.

If you have a PC that's on all the time, you don't even need a NAS.

[hepcat]

I can see the privacy issue for some as Plex uses a cloud account for logins, while Jellyfin is purely self hosted. But I'm not afraid of Plex doing anything nefarious to my account/accessing my media for nefarious reasons. I've been using them for about 10 years or so. I figure if they wanted to harm me, they would have done so by now. Plus, I like all the extra streaming stuff and their connections to various metadata services.

Beyond that, they function the same (although Jellyfin is pretty bare bones...but that's by design to make it more light weight). So I can't really agree with the "one is better than the other" debate after discounting any privacy arguments. Basically, it's the old open source versus something that isn't open source discussion.

[Anonymous Bosch]

I love Plex and have a lifetime subscription. But it’s not really an alternative to streaming services unless you already own everything you would watch on streaming services.

Granted, but that's why I suggested using a variety of apps such as Jellyfin, Plex, and Kodi etc. Each have their uses, and pros and cons. For example, there are Kodi addons that provide easy access to various legitimate services you subscribe to, like Amazon VOD, Disney+, HBO Max, Hulu, Netflix, Paramount+ etc. Or you can use something like PlayOn.tv to record and download content from legitimate services you subscribe to as MP4 files, which can then be archived and watched from any device you prefer through your own home media server.

[hepcat]

Interesting. Do the Kodi plugins just emulate the official streaming services apps, or permit the use of the official apps within the Kodi framework? Or do they incorporate the streaming services into the Kodi app?

Also, I think the main complaint from folks like Kraken is that streaming services are hard to manage. I feel like adding another level of complexity, as slight as that seems to those of us who have been dabbling with this stuff for years, would only exacerbate their problems. At the end of the day, there's going to be a learning curve for any new technology (even when it's just new to some). So the choice becomes either stick with what you know, or power through the learning process.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Interesting. Do the Kodi plugins just emulate the official streaming services apps, or permit the use of the official apps within the Kodi framework? Or do they incorporate the streaming services into the Kodi app?

Usually, relevant Kodi addons offer access to the same profile(s) and content as the official apps, all within the Kodi app, e.g. here are some screenshots of the Hulu Kodi Addon:

[hepcat]

Oh my, that may be worth checking out on my part. Thanks!

The Paramount Plus app is the only one I find problematic. And that's from a technical standpoint. Sometimes it just won't start a show/movie after the intro ad. But I think that's just the android tv implementation of the app.

[Rumpy]

That’s less a Tubi issue than it is a streaming device issue. Caching accounts to a device/web browser/etc. has been a thing for years.

But it's also an issue in the way they designed the particular app. They've purposefully obfuscated signing in with an existing account over the creation of a new one. It's all over in the language used, ie sign-up vs sign-in. First time I've come across that. The only way I figured out how to login via a different email and password was a total crapshoot, was by pressing cancel instead of continue, which is not intuitive at at all. And it's not limited to the app, but trickles down to their website as well. It defaults to emailing a login link, and you have to physically select email and password from a dropdown menu. The design language is just awful.

[hepcat]

Ah, got it. You should demand your money back!

[Blackhawk]

I have been using Plex for a few years, but have come to despise it lately. In order to actually display content (like shows) correctly, you're required to use a very specific folder structure and naming system. I don't use that particular system, and don't want to - it works for Plex, but makes finding anything by other means a huge pain in the ass. I use(d) Plex to allow me to watch shows that are on my media PC from the TV in the bedroom. Every other way I access the media is via PC - I simply navigate to the shared "Shows" folder and double click the show I want to watch. If I'm watching on Android, I just use a network file browser and do the same.

Maybe I'm just being dense, but I’m not sure I understand what you’re doing here. I have used Plex for years. While they suggest setting up a series of shows with a specific folder structure, I haven’t actually done that for years. I just toss all tv shows into a folder called tv and all movies into a folder called movies. Plex is smart enough to display them correctly 99 percent of the time in its UI.

I actually organize my files.

-Shows
---Sci-fi
------Expanse
---------Season 1
------------Episode 1 - Ships Do Stuff.mkv

I don't want 13,000+ files dumped into one folder, especially if they don't have standardized naming.

As for searching for shows directly from the folders, why aren’t you using the Plex client or accessing your media through the client interface via any web browser. I can easily and quickly find whatever I want to watch in seconds using the Plex client UI. What you’re doing sounds like someone installing steam, downloading all their games, and then opening those games by searching for the executables in the steam apps folder every time they want to play a game. Why wouldn’t you just open it from steam?

Because 1. I like to be able to browse organized files, not just a clump of shows by name, and 2, I'd say this is more like getting all of your games from GoG, then installing a third-party app that you have to play them in. Why would I fiddle with Plex's client when I can just double-click the episode I want to watch like I would any image or document file?

[hepcat]

To each their own. I still don't see how this is a plex issue. It sounds like you want a file server, not a media server.

Also, I've organized my files with a folder structure Ike the one you mentioned and plex had no trouble with it.

Honestly it sounds like you just want a NAS server....period. Full stop. There are tons of network file browser clients you could use instead of steam....I mean plex.

[gilraen]

I actually organize my files.

-Shows
---Sci-fi
------Expanse
---------Season 1
------------Episode 1 - Ships Do Stuff.mkv

The main naming convention that all major media servers look for are SxxExx in the file name. It has no idea what "Episode 1" is, but it knows S01E01. That's probably where the crux of your issue is. Genre subfolder is questionable, not sure if that's causing issues or not (but it shouldn't).

[Blackhawk]

From what I read, it's an issue. And again, the idea of sitting there and renaming 13,000 files is insane.

My files are 95% accessed via PC. The other 5% (which used to be about 30%) is accessing them from the TV in the bedroom, which does not have a computer associated with it, but does have Roku. I looked into how to do that, and the overwhelming answer was to use Plex. It turns out that Plex is so particular about how your files are set up that it's unusable unless I completely change the way I do the 95%.

To each their own. I still don't see how this is a plex issue.

When Plex doesn't bother to tell you that specific naming conventions are required, then scrambles your media as a result, it's a Plex problem.

There are tons of network file browser clients you could use instead of steam....I mean plex.

I'll see your and raise you a .

[hepcat]

If your tv is less than a decade old…possibly even older, it probably has an OS of some type. So it would most likely have a client for file browsing from your pc over your network, and should also natively understand opening an mp4, mkv, etc..

You’re going to be facing this naming restraint problem with pretty much any media server, I imagine. Gilraen already explained why. They all have readily available support info on naming conventions on their web sites. But since you want to keep doing things your way, and you don’t really want a UI at all, a file server sounds like your best bet. No need to use steam…er….plex!

When Plex doesn't bother to tell you that specific naming conventions are required, then scrambles your media as a result, it's a Plex problem

Leaving aside the fact that Plex does have a page on their site detailing suggested naming conventions and also alerts you to what not to use on that page, I’ve never seen Plex actually mess with the files. It may not display them correctly in the UI (which appears to be 5 percent of your use), but it shouldn’t actually be changing anything at the file level.

P.S. and before you ask, my maiden name is Plex.

[Blackhawk]

Leaving aside the fact that Plex does have a page on their site detailing suggested naming conventions and also alerts you to what not to use on that page

Which would be helpful if they directed you to that page during download and/or installation. That page is only helpful once you've had a problem and go looking for the answer.

I’ve never seen Plex actually mess with the files. It may not display them correctly in the UI (which appears to be 5 percent of your use), but it shouldn’t actually be changing anything at the file level.

It isn't. It just isn't smart enough to know that a file in folder A/B/C/D isn't the same as a file in folder A/E/F/G. Again, the problem was that I'd try to open a file from one show, only to have it open a completely different file. Googling it found me a multitude of people with the same problem.

But since you want to keep doing things your way, and you don’t really want a UI at all, a file server sounds like your best bet. No need to use steam…er….plex!

That's not entirely accurate. It's not that I want to keep doing things my way (although I do), it's that when I asked around for a way to access the files on my PC from my TV, the answer I was given (Plex) was a poor one. Plex (or, apparently, any media server software) is built around dedicated your entire setup to their system, from the filenames on down. That wasn't what I'd asked for, and that fact wasn't conveyed with the answer.

My TV, by the way, was a B-range model from 2010. It has no user-accessible operating system beyond changing the inputs.

Also, I'm not really looking for a fix anymore. Using that TV at this point is a convenience, not a part of my routine, and it is literally the only device in the house that I can't access the files from. When I asked for a solution to this, Michelle was usually using the living room TV (which has the media computer attached to it), so I had to go elsewhere to watch. She's long gone, and I no longer need to go in the other room to watch a show. It would be nice on occasion, but not so much that I'm willing to jump through hoops to achieve it.

[hitbyambulance]

all the Plex users i know have no 'legally owned' media - it's _all_ pirated

[hepcat]

I ripped all my DVDs for Night Stalker, Night Gallery, Babylon 5, etc. (MANY ect.) to mkv format and the upconvert seems so much better. I’ve got at least 50 series on mine.

Also, I'm not really looking for a fix anymore. Using that TV at this point is a convenience, not a part of my routine, and it is literally the only device in the house that I can't access the files from.

Then case closed, it seems. Ditch Plex and just use a file server.

By the way, I still think it’s erroneous to state that Plex requires very specific file names. It does not. I’m living proof of that. My library is a sloppy mismatch of names and Plex almost always matches the right show and episode correctly.

[Anonymous Bosch]

And again, the idea of sitting there and renaming 13,000 files is insane.

Not necessarily; there's a mighty useful free tool you can use that greatly simplifies tasks like this, which is the aptly named Bulk Rename Utility. The User Interface can initially seem overwhelming, so it's worth reading the manual and checking out the support forum. But if you're more of a visual learner, here are some tutorial videos that walk you through most of the basics on how it works:

[Blackhawk]

I ripped all my DVDs for Night Stalker, Night Gallery, Babylon 5, etc. (MANY ect.) to mkv format and the upconvert seems so much better. I’ve got at least 50 series on mine.

I didn't rip, but I've got several large disk binders full of DVDs. I don't have major qualms about pirating copies of those things I own. I have also downloaded copies of things that I had access to via streaming when the streaming itself (app, or silly restrictions) were such that the downloaded copy gave a better experience.

I have a few extra that I don't, though, so if anyone wants to brand me a villain, feel free.

[hepcat]

I hope Spielberg shows up at your place the next time you make a pie, swipes it off your windowsill, yells “Yoink!” and takes off.

[Isgrimnur]

[hepcat]

[Blackhawk]

I hope Spielberg shows up at your place the next time you make a pie, swipes it off your windowsill, yells “Yoink!” and takes off.

Speilberg? He's welcome to the pie.

[hepcat]

I was worried that analogy might have been triggering for you considering what Scorsese did with your ham sandwich last week.

[Blackhawk]

...

Wasn't... mayo?

[hepcat]

It was another joke about famous directors stealing from you in response to piracy. I wasn't going where you went.