No not resign and let someone else run. I think Biden should resign right now, like THIS SECOND. The sooner the better.
[Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
Daehawk wrote:Thats Drazzil's chair damnit.
- Unagi
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
What is it you are failing to read in his statement below...
El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:46 pm FWIW I think that the cleanest way to change horses, so to speak, would be for Biden to resign due to health issues, giving Harris the incumbency advantage and effectively clearing the field for her (though that wouldn't guarantee that no one would challenge Harris).
One challenge with this is that most likely in January 2023 Democrats would lose the ability to name the replacement VP without getting GOP consent, and in the absence of a replacement the GOP Speaker would be next in line for the presidency. So that'd have to be done sometime in the next few months.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
The future of the Democratic Party is progressive. I'd be surprised if a RINO running as a Democrat--unless they leaned HARD into a leftward stance--could attract more votes than they repelled.Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:23 pm So the Yankee RINO Governor (whose name escapes me) is out? Talk about standing up to BS...that guy should switch parties immediately since he probably doesn't recognize the GOP anymore. The little bit I've heard him, really liked the cut of his jib.
Depending on his 2a stance, I would totally vote for him (who shall remain nameless because Googling is hard).
Plus, that is a crazy, bold ballsy move, somethign we sorely need right now (going back to the Hail Mary analogy here). Have someone whose party totally betrayed them via radicalization fight back. Many of those types are SUPER angry at having their political worldview party hijacked by a bunch of know-nothing nutjobs, and know how to fight the beast better than D's probably.
Dems younger than Pelosi and Biden don't want to settle for peace with Romney and Cheney. They want Dems who will fight for the future.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
- Pyperkub
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
The question isn't the future of the Democratic Party, but rather the future of America. We have a pretty good idea of what that future is if the GOP continues its current trajectory. What we don't know is if enough Americans can cobble together something which can adequately counter that before the GOP takes permanent control.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
Charlie Baker has shown no indication of further political ambitions. Doesn't mean he'll never be back, but for now he seems inclined to write his memoir and make a ton of money. Go out on a high note and leave 'em wanting more.Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:23 pm So the Yankee RINO Governor (whose name escapes me) is out? Talk about standing up to BS...that guy should switch parties immediately since he probably doesn't recognize the GOP anymore. The little bit I've heard him, really liked the cut of his jib.
Depending on his 2a stance, I would totally vote for him (who shall remain nameless because Googling is hard).
Plus, that is a crazy, bold ballsy move, somethign we sorely need right now (going back to the Hail Mary analogy here). Have someone whose party totally betrayed them via radicalization fight back. Many of those types are SUPER angry at having their political worldview party hijacked by a bunch of know-nothing nutjobs, and know how to fight the beast better than D's probably.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
At this point, just being able to leave with your integrity intact is a feat. And yes, Charlie Baker is who I was thinking of, thanks.Kraken wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:20 pmCharlie Baker has shown no indication of further political ambitions. Doesn't mean he'll never be back, but for now he seems inclined to write his memoir and make a ton of money. Go out on a high note and leave 'em wanting more.Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:23 pm So the Yankee RINO Governor (whose name escapes me) is out? Talk about standing up to BS...that guy should switch parties immediately since he probably doesn't recognize the GOP anymore. The little bit I've heard him, really liked the cut of his jib.
Depending on his 2a stance, I would totally vote for him (who shall remain nameless because Googling is hard).
Plus, that is a crazy, bold ballsy move, somethign we sorely need right now (going back to the Hail Mary analogy here). Have someone whose party totally betrayed them via radicalization fight back. Many of those types are SUPER angry at having their political worldview party hijacked by a bunch of know-nothing nutjobs, and know how to fight the beast better than D's probably.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
Yes, yes, yes! I stopped beating that drum because I didn't think anyone was listening. But if the Dems ran Charlie Baker against Trump (or even DeSantis), I think this country might have a shot.Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:29 amAt this point, just being able to leave with your integrity intact is a feat. And yes, Charlie Baker is who I was thinking of, thanks.Kraken wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:20 pmCharlie Baker has shown no indication of further political ambitions. Doesn't mean he'll never be back, but for now he seems inclined to write his memoir and make a ton of money. Go out on a high note and leave 'em wanting more.Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:23 pm So the Yankee RINO Governor (whose name escapes me) is out? Talk about standing up to BS...that guy should switch parties immediately since he probably doesn't recognize the GOP anymore. The little bit I've heard him, really liked the cut of his jib.
Depending on his 2a stance, I would totally vote for him (who shall remain nameless because Googling is hard).
Plus, that is a crazy, bold ballsy move, somethign we sorely need right now (going back to the Hail Mary analogy here). Have someone whose party totally betrayed them via radicalization fight back. Many of those types are SUPER angry at having their political worldview party hijacked by a bunch of know-nothing nutjobs, and know how to fight the beast better than D's probably.
Also, on Baker's 2A stance:
Gov. Baker: Washington Should ‘Look to Massachusetts' for Gun Reform Guidance
Charlie Baker backs Massachusetts’s strict gun laws as a national model
Baker supports federal assault weapons ban, would advocate Mass.-style gun laws to national GOP
Just 'cause you feel it, doesn't mean it's there -- Radiohead
Do you believe me? Do you trust me? Do you like me? 😳
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
We likely don't live in a time where it's possible. I don't know if he could win the general. It's definitely plausible. However, the primary is the problem and just back of the envelope math makes me think it's politically impossible. The problem with this idea are the kids.Kurth wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 1:32 amYes, yes, yes! I stopped beating that drum because I didn't think anyone was listening. But if the Dems ran Charlie Baker against Trump (or even DeSantis), I think this country might have a shot.Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:29 amAt this point, just being able to leave with your integrity intact is a feat. And yes, Charlie Baker is who I was thinking of, thanks.Kraken wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:20 pmCharlie Baker has shown no indication of further political ambitions. Doesn't mean he'll never be back, but for now he seems inclined to write his memoir and make a ton of money. Go out on a high note and leave 'em wanting more.Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:23 pm So the Yankee RINO Governor (whose name escapes me) is out? Talk about standing up to BS...that guy should switch parties immediately since he probably doesn't recognize the GOP anymore. The little bit I've heard him, really liked the cut of his jib.
Depending on his 2a stance, I would totally vote for him (who shall remain nameless because Googling is hard).
Plus, that is a crazy, bold ballsy move, somethign we sorely need right now (going back to the Hail Mary analogy here). Have someone whose party totally betrayed them via radicalization fight back. Many of those types are SUPER angry at having their political worldview party hijacked by a bunch of know-nothing nutjobs, and know how to fight the beast better than D's probably.
Despite talk about youth not voting, we had the greatest youth turnout since 1964 in 2020. They sat out 2016 and for some reason ( ) felt motivated to show up in 2020. Approximately 50% in 18-24. And 55% in 25-49. You could say 50%?! How could that matter?! The *average was a little over 50%* with relatively high turnout (55-65%) in the populous blue and purple states and low (mid-30s) in red states.
So the next layer down is who did the young overwhelmingly favor in blue/purple states? More liberal/progressive candidates. They didn't generally support centrists and it seems hard to imagine turnout for Charlie Baker there. Which means he almost certainly can't win the Democratic primary.
Missed this but this is the big picture on the electoral math I laid out above. The problem is our democracy has to survive for this future to be possible. This oncoming demographic wave is deeply involved in driving the anti-democratic elements in the crisis we see.Holman wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:57 pmThe future of the Democratic Party is progressive. I'd be surprised if a RINO running as a Democrat--unless they leaned HARD into a leftward stance--could attract more votes than they repelled.
Dems younger than Pelosi and Biden don't want to settle for peace with Romney and Cheney. They want Dems who will fight for the future.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
"Massachusetts, which bans assault weapons and high-capacity magazines and requires background checks for gun licenses, had the nation’s lowest rate of gun deaths in 2019, the most recent year for which data are available"Kurth wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 1:32 amYes, yes, yes! I stopped beating that drum because I didn't think anyone was listening. But if the Dems ran Charlie Baker against Trump (or even DeSantis), I think this country might have a shot.Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:29 amAt this point, just being able to leave with your integrity intact is a feat. And yes, Charlie Baker is who I was thinking of, thanks.Kraken wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:20 pmCharlie Baker has shown no indication of further political ambitions. Doesn't mean he'll never be back, but for now he seems inclined to write his memoir and make a ton of money. Go out on a high note and leave 'em wanting more.Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:23 pm So the Yankee RINO Governor (whose name escapes me) is out? Talk about standing up to BS...that guy should switch parties immediately since he probably doesn't recognize the GOP anymore. The little bit I've heard him, really liked the cut of his jib.
Depending on his 2a stance, I would totally vote for him (who shall remain nameless because Googling is hard).
Plus, that is a crazy, bold ballsy move, somethign we sorely need right now (going back to the Hail Mary analogy here). Have someone whose party totally betrayed them via radicalization fight back. Many of those types are SUPER angry at having their political worldview party hijacked by a bunch of know-nothing nutjobs, and know how to fight the beast better than D's probably.
Also, on Baker's 2A stance:
Gov. Baker: Washington Should ‘Look to Massachusetts' for Gun Reform Guidance
Charlie Baker backs Massachusetts’s strict gun laws as a national model
Baker supports federal assault weapons ban, would advocate Mass.-style gun laws to national GOP
So far this year, Boston has had only seven gun fatalities, which is far below any comparable US city. Gun control works. It would work a lot better if we didn't have states with loose regulation (I'm looking at you, NH) on our borders. However, I must also acknowledge that Mass. has no real "gun culture." Fewer than 1% of residents take out hunting licenses, for example. Strict regulation only works if the citizens want it.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
AOC.
As much as I disagree with her, she's young energetic, extremely smart, and charismatic.
That's the recipe for democratic success. The two most popular D presidents were John Kennedy and Bill Clinton.
As much as I disagree with her, she's young energetic, extremely smart, and charismatic.
That's the recipe for democratic success. The two most popular D presidents were John Kennedy and Bill Clinton.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
This is the case being put forward for Newsom. There was just a good WaPo opinion piece about it.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:58 am AOC.
As much as I disagree with her, she's young energetic, extremely smart, and charismatic.
That's the recipe for democratic success. The two most popular D presidents were John Kennedy and Bill Clinton.
WaPo
The shooting at a July Fourth parade in Illinois seemed somehow different — it wasn’t just one more massacre. This was obvious to everyone, especially liberals who criticize American gun culture and the difficulty of passing legislation at the national level. Nowhere seems safe, and politicians are unable or unwilling to do anything about it.
For those liberals, the reaction of their party’s leadership, if not nearly as repugnant as the GOP’s standard “thoughts and prayers,” is nonetheless frustrating. Our country feels like it’s spinning downward at an ever-more-furious pace, and the party is led by superannuated politicians who at these moments explain why they’d like to do more but are constrained from doing so.
So they criticize the Supreme Court’s recent ruling nullifying some blue-state gun laws and tout the new gun reforms, which represent real progress, though not nearly enough. But few national Democrats, if any, are making a comprehensive case that right-wing radicalization threatens a nightmarish future, on many fronts at once.
...
Meanwhile, President Biden keeps talking about the Republicans of good will whose support he seeks. Democratic leaders in Congress focus on discrete pieces of legislation they hope to pass but only occasionally do.
One just doesn’t get the sense that their hair is on fire, which is how rank-and-file Democrats feel.
We think this is the context for the new, much-discussed move by California Gov. Gavin Newsom (D). Over the weekend, he aired an ad on Fox News aimed ostensibly at Floridians living under Gov. Ron DeSantis, the second most important Republican in the country after Donald Trump <snip video clip>
...
“It’s Independence Day, so let’s talk about what’s going on in America,” Newsom says in the ad. “Freedom is under attack” in places like Florida, he says, listing a number of issues — abortion, free speech, voting rights — on which Republicans are trying to “take your freedom.”
The message here is that all these right-wing efforts add up to profoundly threaten the way of life that much of Blue America takes for granted. Why don’t we hear this big-picture case more often?
Yes, it’s a bid for attention. Newsom, an ambitious politician who’s likely eyeing a White House run, knows a personal spat between two governors is irresistible to political reporters.
But he’s speaking into a real vacuum. Democratic voters crave signs that party leaders understand their frustration is bordering on panic: As they see it, the side making serious ideological gains is the opposition, whose chances of winning Congress don’t seem diminished by revelations about Trump’s GOP-enabled effort to destroy our political order, court decisions gutting long-settled rights, or mass-shooting nightmares that seem horrifyingly inevitable.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
My fear about Newsom is he would be seen as too much of a ‘D establishment/royalty’ pick.
I think we need someone a little more outside the normal D ‘box’ at this point.
Definitely maybe AOC, the young, female version of Bernie to some degree.
I think we need someone a little more outside the normal D ‘box’ at this point.
Definitely maybe AOC, the young, female version of Bernie to some degree.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
I love AOC, but running her would be political insanity. The GOP machine has spent much of the past 5+ years demonizing the influence of AOC and "the Squad" - basically telling rural America to fear their influence and them taking over the Democratic Party. It's all nonsense, of course, but voters outside of the Democratic Party are going to hear everything she says through a lens of her being some crazy radical.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:58 am AOC.
As much as I disagree with her, she's young energetic, extremely smart, and charismatic.
That's the recipe for democratic success. The two most popular D presidents were John Kennedy and Bill Clinton.
Black Lives Matter.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
It's not about Republicans. It's about motivating young people to vote. That's why a black man won so easily.
And it won't hurt with Hispanics either.
Edit: yikes. I forgot the other young popular democratic party president: Obama.
And it won't hurt with Hispanics either.
Edit: yikes. I forgot the other young popular democratic party president: Obama.
Last edited by noxiousdog on Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
I don't love Newsom (don't know a ton about him to be honest), but the WaPo piece is right that there's a real void in leadership which creates an opportunity for some Democrat to make the big picture case that the house is on fire and we need to do something about it *right now*.Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:21 am My fear about Newsom is he would be seen as too much of a ‘D establishment/royalty’ pick.
I think we need someone a little more outside the normal D ‘box’ at this point.
Definitely maybe AOC, the young, female version of Bernie to some degree.
I will say I've been approaching this question mostly in terms of the best chance of winning in 2024. That said, I would be willing to trade some % of victory chance if I got the chance of having someone in place who seems to better understand the crisis that we're in.
Black Lives Matter.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
To be honest I'd be fine with Biden outright coopting it. The point is that the leadership in the party has to start saying this to the voters! And that Biden is still trying to win over the radical authoritarians? It's beyond ponderous and a good part of the reason everyone is throwing in the towel on him already. If Biden is dragged into putting aside fantasies about responsible Republicans (there are dozens of them!) it'll be a good outcome.El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:28 amI will say I've been approaching this question mostly in terms of the best chance of winning in 2024. That said, I would be willing to trade some % of victory chance if I got the chance of having someone in place who seems to better understand the crisis that we're in.
Last edited by malchior on Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
Well, it's both. You want to motivate young people to vote while also not losing too many old / centrist / swing / etc. voters in the process. Bearing in mind that under our crazy system it also matters a lot *where* particular voters are, as the electoral college disproportionately empowers old white voters.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:28 am It's not about Republicans. It's about motivating young people to vote. That's why a black man won so easily.
I don't think AOC is the worst choice exactly, I just very much doubt that she's the best.
Black Lives Matter.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
Indeed. Also someone needs to start saying this shit out loud because if Republicans do put into place one of their election stealing schemes in 2024, we're probably going to need mass protests to stop it, and that's only going to be feasible if people and media outlets are prepared for it.malchior wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:31 amTo be honest I'd be fine with Biden outright coopting it. The point is that the party has to start saying this to the voters! And that Biden is still trying to win over the radical authoritarians? It's beyond ponderous and a good part of the reason everyone is throwing in the towel on him already.El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:28 amI will say I've been approaching this question mostly in terms of the best chance of winning in 2024. That said, I would be willing to trade some % of victory chance if I got the chance of having someone in place who seems to better understand the crisis that we're in.
I am glad that Newsom is saying this stuff for that reason. Honestly I would like him to put some pressure on Biden's people - basically start making this case or I'll take a serious look at a primary run.
Black Lives Matter.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
Yup. There is also mounting evidence that younger voters are awakening politically. They have a huge cohort from 20 - 40 right now. Gen X is more conservative now than not but they are dwarfed by the millenials. If the young step up and vote, and the system isn't broken...we'll see quite a bit of change. Especially on environmental and human rights issues.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:28 am It's not about Republicans. It's about motivating young people to vote. That's why a black man won so easily.
And it won't hurt with Hispanics either.
Edit: yikes. I forgot the other young popular democratic party president: Obama.
- Carpet_pissr
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
Great points about Newsom prompting Joe and Co. to fucking MOVE or something. Ring a bell and let us know you're still alive, man.
And I think it will take that (and more internal AND external pressure from others in the party), in addition to running some new blood. Both things IMO need to happen, and quickly.
We saw the "street turnout" for Roe's demise. It was decent, but not massive by any means (I also highly suspect that the leak was strategic to do exactly what it did...soften the eventual actual blow). I don't think we will see near that kind of response for something as now belittled and diminished as election laws. People are just too jaded and cynical. When one side of the country is saying "elections are rigged because my very popular guy didn't win - did you see the turnout at his rallies??" and the other side sees THAT side change the laws to help ACTUALLY rig elections...I can totally see why people are just throwing up their hands.
IMO it's going to take something in your face like a 20% tax hike, or repeal of the Civil Rights Act, or the abolishment of public schools (wish list item for the right) etc.
And I think it will take that (and more internal AND external pressure from others in the party), in addition to running some new blood. Both things IMO need to happen, and quickly.
We saw the "street turnout" for Roe's demise. It was decent, but not massive by any means (I also highly suspect that the leak was strategic to do exactly what it did...soften the eventual actual blow). I don't think we will see near that kind of response for something as now belittled and diminished as election laws. People are just too jaded and cynical. When one side of the country is saying "elections are rigged because my very popular guy didn't win - did you see the turnout at his rallies??" and the other side sees THAT side change the laws to help ACTUALLY rig elections...I can totally see why people are just throwing up their hands.
IMO it's going to take something in your face like a 20% tax hike, or repeal of the Civil Rights Act, or the abolishment of public schools (wish list item for the right) etc.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
FWIW the street turnout was actually fairly large and widespread despite the fact that it came out on a Friday midday. And the next weekend was ... last weekend ... a major holiday.Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:45 am Great points about Newsom prompting Joe and Co. to fucking MOVE or something. Ring a bell and let us know you're still alive, man.
And I think it will take that (and more internal AND external pressure from others in the party), in addition to running some new blood. Both things IMO need to happen, and quickly.
We saw the "street turnout" for Roe's demise. It was decent, but not massive by any means. I don't think we will see near that kind of response for something as now belittled and diminished as election laws. People are just too jaded and cynical. When one side of the country is saying "elections are rigged because my very popular guy didn't win - did you see the turnout at his rallies??" and the other side sees THAT side change the laws to help ACTUALLY rig elections...I can totally see why people are just throwing up their hands.
On top the protests that did occur were largely under covered. Why perhaps? They were mostly peaceful and the coverage focused heavily (nearly exclusively) on problem spots where there were police responses. The 4th estate thread exists for exactly this reason. The lack of coverage left people with the impression that folks didn't respond.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
Absolutely. Running AOC would be conceding the election. Even assuming that she was the magical key that would get young progressives to actually vote en masse, she would alienate so many of the older voters - including (and especially) the moderates who were raised on the bogeyman of socialism - that the Rs could run a sack of potatoes (or even dumb it down a bit and re-run Trump) and win.El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:25 amI love AOC, but running her would be political insanity. The GOP machine has spent much of the past 5+ years demonizing the influence of AOC and "the Squad" - basically telling rural America to fear their influence and them taking over the Democratic Party. It's all nonsense, of course, but voters outside of the Democratic Party are going to hear everything she says through a lens of her being some crazy radical.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:58 am AOC.
As much as I disagree with her, she's young energetic, extremely smart, and charismatic.
That's the recipe for democratic success. The two most popular D presidents were John Kennedy and Bill Clinton.
That's my purse! I don't know you!
- YellowKing
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
People are largely dismissive of things that aren't impacting them RIGHT NOW. That's why it's hard to get excited about voter suppression that may happen *next* election. And you can forget climate change - 10 years, 25 years, 50 years down the road? Don't care.
We'll get mad about voter suppression *after* the GOP steals an election and then locks everything down to the point we can't do anything about it. Just as we'll get motivated to do something about climate change after our house is under water.
We'll get mad about voter suppression *after* the GOP steals an election and then locks everything down to the point we can't do anything about it. Just as we'll get motivated to do something about climate change after our house is under water.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
People don't want to believe in the worst case scenario. They want to believe it's not a bad as people are saying. Once it happens they'll have no choice but to believe. And it will be too late.YellowKing wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:05 am People are largely dismissive of things that aren't impacting them RIGHT NOW. That's why it's hard to get excited about voter suppression that may happen *next* election. And you can forget climate change - 10 years, 25 years, 50 years down the road? Don't care.
We'll get mad about voter suppression *after* the GOP steals an election and then locks everything down to the point we can't do anything about it. Just as we'll get motivated to do something about climate change after our house is under water.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
I wonder if many moderates might open their eyes if they hear her speak to their concerns directly on the campaign trail, rather than in Fox News-selected sound bites. All they have now is a scary caricature.ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:02 amAbsolutely. Running AOC would be conceding the election. Even assuming that she was the magical key that would get young progressives to actually vote en masse, she would alienate so many of the older voters - including (and especially) the moderates who were raised on the bogeyman of socialism - that the Rs could run a sack of potatoes (or even dumb it down a bit and re-run Trump) and win.El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:25 amI love AOC, but running her would be political insanity. The GOP machine has spent much of the past 5+ years demonizing the influence of AOC and "the Squad" - basically telling rural America to fear their influence and them taking over the Democratic Party. It's all nonsense, of course, but voters outside of the Democratic Party are going to hear everything she says through a lens of her being some crazy radical.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:58 am AOC.
As much as I disagree with her, she's young energetic, extremely smart, and charismatic.
That's the recipe for democratic success. The two most popular D presidents were John Kennedy and Bill Clinton.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
How many moderates are going to see her on the campaign trail? The vast majority of people would just see campaign sound-bites filtered through their channel of choice. So....she's not exactly going to reach many Fox viewers.Kraken wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:34 amI wonder if many moderates might open their eyes if they hear her speak to their concerns directly on the campaign trail, rather than in Fox News-selected sound bites. All they have now is a scary caricature.ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:02 amAbsolutely. Running AOC would be conceding the election. Even assuming that she was the magical key that would get young progressives to actually vote en masse, she would alienate so many of the older voters - including (and especially) the moderates who were raised on the bogeyman of socialism - that the Rs could run a sack of potatoes (or even dumb it down a bit and re-run Trump) and win.El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:25 amI love AOC, but running her would be political insanity. The GOP machine has spent much of the past 5+ years demonizing the influence of AOC and "the Squad" - basically telling rural America to fear their influence and them taking over the Democratic Party. It's all nonsense, of course, but voters outside of the Democratic Party are going to hear everything she says through a lens of her being some crazy radical.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:58 am AOC.
As much as I disagree with her, she's young energetic, extremely smart, and charismatic.
That's the recipe for democratic success. The two most popular D presidents were John Kennedy and Bill Clinton.
Black Lives Matter.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
I think running a candiate in fear of "turning off" a certain subset of voters is how we got sleepy do nothing Biden. And if you think you're going to be able to turn out the coalition you screwed this election cycle by offering them less then you offered them last time, think again.Kraken wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:34 amI wonder if many moderates might open their eyes if they hear her speak to their concerns directly on the campaign trail, rather than in Fox News-selected sound bites. All they have now is a scary caricature.ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:02 amAbsolutely. Running AOC would be conceding the election. Even assuming that she was the magical key that would get young progressives to actually vote en masse, she would alienate so many of the older voters - including (and especially) the moderates who were raised on the bogeyman of socialism - that the Rs could run a sack of potatoes (or even dumb it down a bit and re-run Trump) and win.El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:25 amI love AOC, but running her would be political insanity. The GOP machine has spent much of the past 5+ years demonizing the influence of AOC and "the Squad" - basically telling rural America to fear their influence and them taking over the Democratic Party. It's all nonsense, of course, but voters outside of the Democratic Party are going to hear everything she says through a lens of her being some crazy radical.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:58 am AOC.
As much as I disagree with her, she's young energetic, extremely smart, and charismatic.
That's the recipe for democratic success. The two most popular D presidents were John Kennedy and Bill Clinton.
Also, a large subset of that centrist voter were chasing won't vote for us regardless.
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- LawBeefaroni
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
Biden won. That's what it was all about. Not about electing an exciting, energetic candidate. Do not lose, that was it.Drazzil wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:38 amI think running a candiate in fear of "turning off" a certain subset of voters is how we got sleepy do nothing Biden. And if you think you're going to be able to turn out the coalition you screwed this election cycle by offering them less then you offered them last time, think again.Kraken wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:34 amI wonder if many moderates might open their eyes if they hear her speak to their concerns directly on the campaign trail, rather than in Fox News-selected sound bites. All they have now is a scary caricature.ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:02 amAbsolutely. Running AOC would be conceding the election. Even assuming that she was the magical key that would get young progressives to actually vote en masse, she would alienate so many of the older voters - including (and especially) the moderates who were raised on the bogeyman of socialism - that the Rs could run a sack of potatoes (or even dumb it down a bit and re-run Trump) and win.El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:25 amI love AOC, but running her would be political insanity. The GOP machine has spent much of the past 5+ years demonizing the influence of AOC and "the Squad" - basically telling rural America to fear their influence and them taking over the Democratic Party. It's all nonsense, of course, but voters outside of the Democratic Party are going to hear everything she says through a lens of her being some crazy radical.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:58 am AOC.
As much as I disagree with her, she's young energetic, extremely smart, and charismatic.
That's the recipe for democratic success. The two most popular D presidents were John Kennedy and Bill Clinton.
Also, a large subset of that centrist voter were chasing won't vote for us regardless.
Is he a disappointment to some? Sure. Not sure what they were expecting, though. Would AOC energize some voters? Absolutely, but she's not going to win.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
Betcha five bucks neither will Biden. And if we're all doomed anyway, I'd rather die with my boots on representing the best of what we could be, rather then the worst... I see that my opinion is not shared though.LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:50 amBiden won. That's what it was all about. Not about electing an exciting, energetic candidate. Do not lose, that was it.Drazzil wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:38 amI think running a candiate in fear of "turning off" a certain subset of voters is how we got sleepy do nothing Biden. And if you think you're going to be able to turn out the coalition you screwed this election cycle by offering them less then you offered them last time, think again.Kraken wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:34 amI wonder if many moderates might open their eyes if they hear her speak to their concerns directly on the campaign trail, rather than in Fox News-selected sound bites. All they have now is a scary caricature.ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:02 amAbsolutely. Running AOC would be conceding the election. Even assuming that she was the magical key that would get young progressives to actually vote en masse, she would alienate so many of the older voters - including (and especially) the moderates who were raised on the bogeyman of socialism - that the Rs could run a sack of potatoes (or even dumb it down a bit and re-run Trump) and win.El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:25 amI love AOC, but running her would be political insanity. The GOP machine has spent much of the past 5+ years demonizing the influence of AOC and "the Squad" - basically telling rural America to fear their influence and them taking over the Democratic Party. It's all nonsense, of course, but voters outside of the Democratic Party are going to hear everything she says through a lens of her being some crazy radical.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:58 am AOC.
As much as I disagree with her, she's young energetic, extremely smart, and charismatic.
That's the recipe for democratic success. The two most popular D presidents were John Kennedy and Bill Clinton.
Also, a large subset of that centrist voter were chasing won't vote for us regardless.
Is he a disappointment to some? Sure. Not sure what they were expecting, though. Would AOC energize some voters? Absolutely, but she's not going to win.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
Exactly how would that work? You do know that that states don't have actually have this money, most of those tax dollars are from individual paycheck withholdings. Are you going to go around asking individuals to not have taxes withheld from their paychecks? Ask businesses/corporations to not forward the money on to the federal government, risking heavy fines?
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
The problem with Newsom is going to be Optics.
Shutting down the state while going out to eat a fancy restaurant in Napa isn't a good look
Vacationing in Montana after banning state travel due to their stance on LGBTQ issues isn't a good look
https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/article2 ... eJ9ZVQSfH4
This and more will be constant ammunition for the right, and they are not wrong. Newsome does a lot of things right, but things like this will haunt him.
Shutting down the state while going out to eat a fancy restaurant in Napa isn't a good look
Vacationing in Montana after banning state travel due to their stance on LGBTQ issues isn't a good look
https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/article2 ... eJ9ZVQSfH4
This and more will be constant ammunition for the right, and they are not wrong. Newsome does a lot of things right, but things like this will haunt him.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
Sounds like Bizarro Chris Christienaednek wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 2:47 pm The problem with Newsom is going to be Optics.
Shutting down the state while going out to eat a fancy restaurant in Napa isn't a good look
Vacationing in Montana after banning state travel due to their stance on LGBTQ issues isn't a good look
https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/article2 ... eJ9ZVQSfH4
This and more will be constant ammunition for the right, and they are not wrong. Newsome does a lot of things right, but things like this will haunt him.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
I think Newsom may be a governor best admired from afar. I have some friends in California who, despite leaning decisively to the left, can't stand the guy.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
He was married to Kimberly Guilfoyle for 5 years, FFS. Pardon if I question his judgement. And undoubtedly she will turn up with loads of dirt if he runs.YellowKing wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:03 pm I think Newsom may be a governor best admired from afar. I have some friends in California who, despite leaning decisively to the left, can't stand the guy.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
Oh noes. Did not know that (and I was already not a Newsom superfan, even from afar). Definitely out.LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:44 pmHe was married to Kimberly Guilfoyle for 5 years, FFS. Pardon if I question his judgement. And undoubtedly she will turn up with loads of dirt if he runs.YellowKing wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:03 pm I think Newsom may be a governor best admired from afar. I have some friends in California who, despite leaning decisively to the left, can't stand the guy.
I'm actually quite bummed right now on realizing that I even know who Kimberly Freaking Guilfoyle is.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
EVERYONE knows who she is after her shrieking presentation at a national convention a few years back. There are moose (meese?) in Saskatchewan who are painfully aware of who she is after that god awful cacophony of shrillness.
He won. Period.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
to a completely empty Andrew W. Mellon Auditorium.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
He won. Period.
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Re: [Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?
On the other hand, Newsom's dunking on Don Jr. will be EPIC.LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:44 pmHe was married to Kimberly Guilfoyle for 5 years, FFS. Pardon if I question his judgement. And undoubtedly she will turn up with loads of dirt if he runs.YellowKing wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:03 pm I think Newsom may be a governor best admired from afar. I have some friends in California who, despite leaning decisively to the left, can't stand the guy.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.