Octopus Overlords

YellowKing wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:28 pm

Unagi wrote:An intelligent man with little political experience could do fine when they understand how to utilize and harness the help of an administration and good advisors that are not just ‘yes’ men.

I totally agree. We've had good Presidents with little or no political experience. But I question why we need that now when we have plenty of other actually qualified candidates. An ongoing world war threat with Russia, an ongoing pandemic, and an impending constitutional crisis seems to me a terrible time to start subbing in your rookies.

P.S. From an emotional perspective, I'd love to have a President Hanks or a President Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson. From a logical perspective, it feels more like a clickbait solution than an actual one.

Yeah, I hear ya - I'm more-or-less with you there.

I think we need someone who can bridge the gap in appealing to people across both parties. Someone who will not be seen as an enemy to one group, and yet someone who is compassionate and a very very good communicator without sounding too educated about it. And, I guess I am just saying that whom-ever that may be, I wouldn't care if they had a ton of political experience, because that actually may not help one seem as 'not an enemy' to one group.

YellowKing wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:28 pm

Unagi wrote:That is not at all what the problem with Trump was.

It wasn't his only problem. But it was a SIGNIFICANT problem. He didn't understand you couldn't give away confidential secrets to Russians. He didn't understand the limitations of power of the executive, legislative, or judicial branches. He didn't understand diplomacy in any way, shape, or form. I don't think you can wave that away as a minor flaw.

But that's just it. It can probably be said that almost anyone would have made a better president. Anyone. You. Me. Your brother. My sister. Drazzil. Because none of us has his level of blinding hubris, we don't think we are completely flawless. That is the gaping hole in Trump's skill-set.

IMO.

The faces of the D Party are Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Bernie Sanders, and Elizabeth Warren. All of them are over 70. Sanders and Warren at least still have the fire in their bellies, but are too far left for mainstream America. The others don't wear their age as well. More than just a young charismatic presidential candidate, Democrats need new leadership throughout the party.

I say this as someone who values experience and prefers people who are my age or older; being perceived as a gerontocracy is a problem.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:59 am

malchior wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:23 am You'd hope better than 39-40% and not 80+ years old. I'm not saying the situation would be great. It's dire no matter what if Biden is our best shot anyway. He hasn't risen to the challenge.

It would almost certainly be lower. First, the public would take Biden not running as an admission by the Democrats that his administration was a failure. But at the same time, whoever the new nominee is would be essentially be stuck running on that record, because they're, you know, still democrats. And "hey, our last president sucked, but you should pick someone who is of the same party, and who will probably do most of the same things, but maybe somewhat better" is not the most winning of messages. Plus any replacement nominee is probably being drawn from the pool of people who couldn't beat Biden (when he was also old!) last time, plus they have to go through the gamut again of pleasing activists who disproportionately dominate the primary process.

I mean, not that it couldn't work, but it's almost certainly the case that Biden will be the best option even if his approval rating remains low.

Nothing you write above would apply if the Dems nominated Charlie Baker, you know, a moderate, pro-choice, pro-reasonable gun control Republican who is also the most popular governor in the country in the People’s Republic of Massachusetts! Just sayin.

10 Democratic rising stars to keep an eye on for the post-Pelosi era

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:52 pm you gotta post a trigger warning before posting something from Cillizza.

Kraken wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:07 pm The faces of the D Party are Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Bernie Sanders, and Elizabeth Warren. All of them are over 70. Sanders and Warren at least still have the fire in their bellies, but are too far left for mainstream America. The others don't wear their age as well. More than just a young charismatic presidential candidate, Democrats need new leadership throughout the party.

We desperately need new leaders. It is an existential problem in my book. Putting fantasies about Charlie Baker aside since that is just a point fix.

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:23 pm 10 Democratic rising stars to keep an eye on for the post-Pelosi era

It's fun talking about a post-Pelosi era prediction from 2018. She will be done...soon.

I also love the idea of Cillizza's fever dream Buzzfeed list. Let's see how it held up.

#1 (sorted by age) Ruben Gallego - might upgrade himself to Senator by primarying the Joker in 2024.

#2 Joe Kennedy - not in Congress after swinging for the Senate and failing

Edit: #3 Seth Moulton - I skipped him accidentally. Mostly because he's pretty much interchangeable with several other folks. Cillizza's dart hit him or he was drinking. Whatever. Moulton has 1% as many Twitter followers as one of the persons in his Twitter banner. That's a good sign [/sarcasm].

#4 Joaquin Castro - Now this is someone who reasonably belongs on such a list. He was the impeachment manager for 2nd impeachment. He is pretty prominent in the House but still widely not known.

#5 Hakeem Jeffries - Still a good chance to rise up the ranks in the 2040 post-Pelosi era

#6 Derek Kilmer - Still invisible. He appears to be a competent manager. Maybe he could be a future whip?

#7 Ben Ray Lujan - Now a Senator. Guess he decided not to wait for the post-Pelosi era.

#8 Cheri Busto - leaving Congress because there was a low chance she'd be able to hold her seat this year against the red wave.

#9 Pramila Jayapal - she has a modicum of power but she's a progressive. Cillizza with a big swing and a miss here even in 2018.

#10 Lisa Blunt Rochester - Cillizza says she was unknown at the time...and she still is.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:52 pm you gotta post a trigger warning before posting something from Cillizza.

Just remember that Cillizza claims he makes 7-figures for this dreck.

malchior wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:57 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:07 pm The faces of the D Party are Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Bernie Sanders, and Elizabeth Warren. All of them are over 70. Sanders and Warren at least still have the fire in their bellies, but are too far left for mainstream America. The others don't wear their age as well. More than just a young charismatic presidential candidate, Democrats need new leadership throughout the party.

We desperately need new leaders. It is an existential problem in my book. Putting fantasies about Charlie Baker aside since that is just a point fix.

To be fair, Pelosi is a master at herding the cats in her House. That's a talent Democrats don't want to lose until they have to -- or until they face a huge GOP majority next year. I think Nancy will be happy to hang up her spurs then.

YellowKing wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:28 pm and an impending constitutional crisis seems to me a terrible time to start subbing in your rookies.

I don't disagree, but most of the veterans have been less than stellar.

gbasden wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 3:42 am

YellowKing wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:28 pm and an impending constitutional crisis seems to me a terrible time to start subbing in your rookies.

I don't disagree, but most of the veterans have been less than stellar comatose.

Mortoned.

I don't think you necessarily need *veterans,* just people with some political experience outside of playing Forrest Gump visiting the White House. There are younger governors and congresspeople out there.

I really don’t think the experience they get there really matters or translates to the presidential office. I’m sure being a senator for 10 years is an good boost to the learning curve , but really I think the right person (not some unicorn, mind you) can accept the help that the administration is designed to give you and you just end up being very booked and busy and having a lot of decisions to make. As far as telling Russians secrets, pretty sure that’s clear to most. Specifics of clearance and top secret procedures, etc would all be available from aides. Being charismatic and diplomatic with foreign friends is one thing, with enemies quite another - and those would all be about the person, not so much their previous 6 years as a local congressman.

IMO.

Trigger warning: Cillizza

Also queue internal screaming at the mere thought this might be serious.

This is part of the delightful media game where one talking head proposes something crazy, then a few other talking heads talk about how "people are talking about [crazy thing]" thus generating a self-propelling news story.

Completely ignoring that she's repeatedly said (I think most recently within the last month) that she's not running, of course. But I guess when things aren't looking good (1/6 Committee) you have to bring out your greatest hits to try and keep the crowd from leaving. Won't surprise me then if caravans are in the news again today.

Well I mean there is the trailer with 50 bodies in it. I don't know how anyone could do that to people. Clinton would never run again it's so pointless. I'm going to just off myself if it's a Biden/Trump rematch. So f'n ridiculous.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:19 pm Completely ignoring that she's repeatedly said (I think most recently within the last month) that she's not running, of course. But I guess when things aren't looking good (1/6 Committee) you have to bring out your greatest hits to try and keep the crowd from leaving. Won't surprise me then if caravans are in the news again today.

Well for analysts it's always nice to recycle a greatest hit, update it, and then take the rest of the day off.

Octavious wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:22 pm Well I mean there is the trailer with 50 bodies in it. I don't know how anyone could do that to people. Clinton would never run again it's so pointless. I'm going to just off myself if it's a Biden/Trump rematch. So f'n ridiculous.

The good news is that the odds of a Biden / Trump rematch have gone down a bit over the past few months. The bad news is that the next most likely matchup is Biden / DeSantis.

I'm a big fan of Tammy Duckworth. She was on the long list for VP. She has enough experience, and a strong military background that could swing a lot of folks.

Yes I am aware that she is not a two legged white male. But the Dems need somebody new. And maybe a purple heart veteran is the right ticket.

Jaymon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:26 pm I'm a big fan of Tammy Duckworth. She was on the long list for VP. She has enough experience, and a strong military background that could swing a lot of folks.

Yes I am aware that she is not a two legged white male. But the Dems need somebody new. And maybe a purple heart veteran is the right ticket.

I voted in the Illinois D primary today, and I broke my usual rule about not voting in unopposed races to vote for Duckworth (who is running unopposed in the D primary, obviously).

Whelp (or should that be whelps?), it appears as if Elon Musk is trying to establish his bonafides as a GOP Candidate in the Trump/Herschel Walker vein...

Tesla CEO Elon Musk reportedly had twins with a top executive at one of his companies last year, his eighth and ninth known children. ... The twins were born weeks before Musk and his then-girlfriend, the musician known as Grimes, gave birth to their second child via surrogate in December.

He'll ride the success of the Musk Family Singers debut album, Too Illegit to Quit, straight into the White House in 2028.

Headlines from the future:

Obviously, those are terrifying and seem like reasonable predictions.
so yeah, that sucks

I mean I think that may end up being like 100 percent accurate. I think there's a good chance they would win the 2024 election without having to have the states toss it their way. Otherwise the rest will all happen.

Next up: "Organized Protests Resulting in Criminal Activity Declared to be Terrorism"
Followed by: "ANTIFA Declared Terrorist Organization" (Secondary headline: "ANTIFA? We'll know it when we see it.")

It's all plausible but I'm expecting a major black swan event somewhere along that timeline.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:43 pm It's all plausible but I'm expecting a major black swan event somewhere along that timeline.

Same. Once you've committed you can't leave it to chance.

Unagi wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:36 pm

YellowKing wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:28 pm

Unagi wrote:That is not at all what the problem with Trump was.

It wasn't his only problem. But it was a SIGNIFICANT problem. He didn't understand you couldn't give away confidential secrets to Russians. He didn't understand the limitations of power of the executive, legislative, or judicial branches. He didn't understand diplomacy in any way, shape, or form. I don't think you can wave that away as a minor flaw.

But that's just it. It can probably be said that almost anyone would have made a better president. Anyone. You. Me. Your brother. My sister. Drazzil. Because none of us has his level of blinding hubris, we don't think we are completely flawless. That is the gaping hole in Trump's skill-set.

IMO.

That last name musta really hurt.

Kraken wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:31 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:57 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:07 pm The faces of the D Party are Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Bernie Sanders, and Elizabeth Warren. All of them are over 70. Sanders and Warren at least still have the fire in their bellies, but are too far left for mainstream America. The others don't wear their age as well. More than just a young charismatic presidential candidate, Democrats need new leadership throughout the party.

We desperately need new leaders. It is an existential problem in my book. Putting fantasies about Charlie Baker aside since that is just a point fix.

To be fair, Pelosi is a master at herding the cats in her House. That's a talent Democrats don't want to lose until they have to -- or until they face a huge GOP majority next year. I think Nancy will be happy to hang up her spurs then.

Herd them to do what? Nothing? color coordinate kneel and wear kentai cloth? I honestly don't know what she's done. Enlighten me? I'm not trolling here. All I see is her doing nothing.

Drazzil wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:42 pmHerd them to do what? Nothing? color coordinate kneel and wear kentai cloth? I honestly don't know what she's done. Enlighten me? I'm not trolling here. All I see is her doing nothing.

Pelosi is in charge of the House, which has passed all kinds of bills. None of them become law because they all die in the Senate, but that's hardly her fault.

Drazzil wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:42 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:31 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:57 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:07 pm The faces of the D Party are Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Bernie Sanders, and Elizabeth Warren. All of them are over 70. Sanders and Warren at least still have the fire in their bellies, but are too far left for mainstream America. The others don't wear their age as well. More than just a young charismatic presidential candidate, Democrats need new leadership throughout the party.

We desperately need new leaders. It is an existential problem in my book. Putting fantasies about Charlie Baker aside since that is just a point fix.

To be fair, Pelosi is a master at herding the cats in her House. That's a talent Democrats don't want to lose until they have to -- or until they face a huge GOP majority next year. I think Nancy will be happy to hang up her spurs then.

Herd them to do what? Nothing? color coordinate kneel and wear kentai cloth? I honestly don't know what she's done. Enlighten me? I'm not trolling here. All I see is her doing nothing.

The House has originated bills addressing virtually every aspect of the D agenda, only to see most of them die in the Senate. I'm not going to google a list for you. Pelosi's great at her job but she can't fix the Senate.

This latest House bill might give you some idea of what you representatives do at work. A lot of those particulars will get stripped out, but much of this will make it into law because the Senate has to fund the Pentagon.

Kraken wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 11:06 pm

Drazzil wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:42 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:31 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:57 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:07 pm The faces of the D Party are Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Bernie Sanders, and Elizabeth Warren. All of them are over 70. Sanders and Warren at least still have the fire in their bellies, but are too far left for mainstream America. The others don't wear their age as well. More than just a young charismatic presidential candidate, Democrats need new leadership throughout the party.

We desperately need new leaders. It is an existential problem in my book. Putting fantasies about Charlie Baker aside since that is just a point fix.

To be fair, Pelosi is a master at herding the cats in her House. That's a talent Democrats don't want to lose until they have to -- or until they face a huge GOP majority next year. I think Nancy will be happy to hang up her spurs then.

Herd them to do what? Nothing? color coordinate kneel and wear kentai cloth? I honestly don't know what she's done. Enlighten me? I'm not trolling here. All I see is her doing nothing.

The House has originated bills addressing virtually every aspect of the D agenda, only to see most of them die in the Senate. I'm not going to google a list for you. Pelosi's great at her job but she can't fix the Senate.

Because they know the bills will safely be shot down. We went over this.

This is still joking, right?

Kraken wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 11:45 pm This latest House bill might give you some idea of what you representatives do at work. A lot of those particulars will get stripped out, but much of this will make it into law because the Senate has to fund the Pentagon.

Well...we don't know what's in the bill to even be stripped out. The DoD budget has become a bit of a slush fund. I'm sure it is totally on the up and up under the careful watch of these ethical and faithful public servants.

The legislation, considered one of the few “must-pass” bills Congress authors each year, is yet to be reconciled with the Senate’s version. The text of that document has not been made public and is expected to reshape some how much money will be directed toward the Defense Department. Implementing the defense bill will also be subject to congressional appropriations, which have not been finalized — and may not cover all of the programs authorized in the legislation.

Drazzil wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 11:58 pm We went over this.

You went over this. Don't mistake silence for agreement.

malchior wrote: ↑Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:07 am

Kraken wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 11:45 pm This latest House bill might give you some idea of what you representatives do at work. A lot of those particulars will get stripped out, but much of this will make it into law because the Senate has to fund the Pentagon.

Well...we don't know what's in the bill to even be stripped out. The DoD budget has become a bit of a slush fund. I'm sure it is totally on the up and up under the careful watch of these ethical and faithful public servants.

The legislation, considered one of the few “must-pass” bills Congress authors each year, is yet to be reconciled with the Senate’s version. The text of that document has not been made public and is expected to reshape some how much money will be directed toward the Defense Department. Implementing the defense bill will also be subject to congressional appropriations, which have not been finalized — and may not cover all of the programs authorized in the legislation.

I know how sausage gets made. I only meant to show Drazzil that the House isn't just naming post offices or whatever. Pelosi is a sausage chef extrardinaire and Democrats will be hard-pressed to replace her when she retires after the midterms.

Kraken wrote: ↑Fri Jul 15, 2022 2:14 amI know how sausage gets made. I only meant to show Drazzil that the House isn't just naming post offices or whatever. Pelosi is a sausage chef extrardinaire and Democrats will be hard-pressed to replace her when she retires after the midterms.

Maybe? She indeed appears to be good at whipping votes. I always feel people focus on this capability while ignoring her glaring deficiencies as a leader. The fact that she's run things for 2 decades and we don't have a clear leadership successor says much. Still I guess we'll see who steps up if/when she retires.

I'm calling it right now. NJ Governor Phil Murphy (D) is running for President. Or he's leaving his wife.



My reason? Apparently now he has hair.

He also switched to contacts, no?