rittchard wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:34 pm
Also I don't think it's fair to compare a network show from that era with any streaming show from this one. The scheduling issues, the pressure for ratings, the entire development process... it just can't be compared. Having the kind of freedom in budget and schedule (at least from the public eye perspective) to create 8-10 episodes and a fairly random release schedule which doesn't seem to owe fans any explanation - compare that to writing/filming 20+ episodes in a set few months every year with a network breathing down your neck for more.
I think you summed up the issues Lost faced quite succinctly. Particularly the issue with having to create 20 plus episodes a season compared to most shows now going with a dozen or less. It’s just insane to try to pad out a show to fit that quantity. Of course it suffered in the end due to that and network meddling.
A show like Raised by Wolves can tell its story at its pace…and who in their right mind is going to walk up to Ridley Scott and tell him to speed things up, or draw it out? The man doesn’t need tv…at all.
But that golden sewer STILL pisses me off…pardon the pun.
Season 2, episode 5. Up to now I thought the show was weird. RbW just said “hold my beer”.
Spoiler:
Where to begin.
We have our first legitimate, sentient alien being, folks. And since this show is batshit insane, they make the Engineers from Prometheus look like members of VFW 2098. Let’s just say I think we now know devolution is a big issue on Kepler 22-b.
We have a psychotic, child android, killing machine.
We have an atheist praying…and having that prayer answered by….something.
We have the Kim Kardashian of alien androids…who apparently likes babies.
And we have full on horror mode for much of the episode.
On a more serious note, there’s a throwaway line by the atheist that may partly answer Holman’s earlier question about the nature of Sol. She says his (her ?) followers heard a message from space and seems to indicate that’s what started Mithraism.
So yeah, this show just doesn’t understand how to be boring.
One thing I appreciate about this show is that it avoids (so far) using cynicism to explore faith. It’s as valid a reaction as logic on RbW. I’m not a religious person by any means, but even I get a little tired of “religion is bad” tropes on these shows. It’s nice to see a fresh approach to the subject.
After watching the latest episode I think humans aren’t really meant to have androids. Or we need to treat them a lot better.
To echo Marcus, what…the…fuck.
Some conjecture:
Spoiler:
The original aliens on Kepler were playing the long game as they devolved and sent tech to Earth to try to get them to the planet and perhaps restart more evolved sentient life on Kepler? And a religion happened to develop around it.
Black lives matter!
Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?
I still don’t skip the opening credits. I really like the soothing opening song coupled with the sparse haunting animation of our world blowing itself up.
Also looking forward to seeing more of Punky Murderbot Brewster. They really paid homage to John Carpenter with the make up effects and I’ll just leave it at that for anyone catching up…
Black lives matter!
Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?
Finished S1, so I can try to start catching up to the rest of you.
This show isn't at all what I thought it was going to be about. It's a really interesting mix of parent/child relationships, religion and religious iconography, and insane androids that apparently use blood as fuel. And drugs? Maybe radiation? Creepy aliens? I guess what I'm saying is, I'm quite curious as to where this is all going.
Also Ep10 was bonkers. I mean, the whole season was disorienting, but that last episode was just...I mean, really.
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 7:31 pm
Finished S1, so I can try to start catching up to the rest of you.
This show isn't at all what I thought it was going to be about. It's a really interesting mix of parent/child relationships, religion and religious iconography,
It’s either god or an alien.
What’s the difference?
Favorite quote of season 2
I’m also hearing rumors that Father is getting a Netflix stand up comedy special…
Zaxxon wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 7:49 pm
I'm 3 into S2, and... Well. Hold on.
Can confirm. Just finished Ep3 and it was like a fire-hose of WTF. Towards the end (when Father meets Billy), I wondered if I accidentally stumbled into a Fallout 4 side quest.
Seriously, what kind of nightmare inducing creature is that going to be? I refuse to believe it'll be a happy-helpful android.
Marcus?
Spoiler:
Becoming super human with crazy dark fluid veins on his face that pulsate now
Mother?
Spoiler:
Running around with a 6' long gun only to discover her snake baby is an herbivore? This one really bothers me - that creepy ass lamprey mouth isn't for pumpkins!
I'm sure I'm forgetting things by the Father spoiler is freaking me out the most right now.
Finished S2 Ep4 and yeah, the fire hose of insanity continued. They uh...really ramped up the body horror for this week.
Spoiler:
Paul's gross cocoon and slicing off Vrille's face? I mean...holy shit.
Plus the new change in the power dynamic (again) with Mother. Not that the show isn't connected to S1, but so far, so much has changed in terms of all the variables in play. All that stays the same are the themes (like power and control) and the imagery (religious in particular).
Regarding Father's project:
Spoiler:
No good can come from a flaming robot with a shrouded face.
I'm finding the show really well written and the visuals are on a whole different level. Still have no idea where this is all going, but maybe S3 will be a full-on musical?
I do wish the show was a little less dark....in a literal sense. A lot of the scenes are shot with a gray lens cover or something, and it makes it hard to see every detail. I'm sure that's a design choice, but it can be a bit much.
I had assumed it was a crazy light filter they were using to make it look like twilight, but yes, it's a bit (literal) dark in some scenes. I didn't realize it until I saw it in the credits, but it's all being filmed in South Africa.
Side note - the extras on HBO Max are entertaining. There seems to be a short 'inside the episode'-type thing like GoT used to do, plus frequent side-pieces with scientists discussing a topic of the episode (eg what is life?).
Somehow I'm all caught up now (watched S2 Ep5 last night) and...wow. This show just keeps on giving. Hopefully I didn't just ruin everything by binge-watching the series up until this point and I can manage to maintain everything now that I'll be waiting a week between each show.
But man...I really have no idea where this is all going. There are definitely hints at what's coming, but like smoke emerging from the tooth of Romulus, you just can't entirely grasp it. Maybe I need to listen more closely to the voices in my head?
Also, Vrille. JFC. Side note - her name means "Spin" when translated from French.
Right? They leave these little nuggets. When she'd mentioned the broken neck, I'd flashed back to Mother (that scene took me by surprise - made me jump). This show is so good!
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:04 pm
Somehow I'm all caught up now (watched S2 Ep5 last night) and...wow. This show just keeps on giving. Hopefully I didn't just ruin everything by binge-watching the series up until this point and I can manage to maintain everything now that I'll be waiting a week between each show.
But man...I really have no idea where this is all going. There are definitely hints at what's coming, but like smoke emerging from the tooth of Romulus, you just can't entirely grasp it. Maybe I need to listen more closely to the voices in my head?
Also, Vrille. JFC. Side note - her name means "Spin" when translated from French.
That scene with Punky Murderbot Brewster in the tank reminded me of a scene out of Alien. Yea Ridley Scott and his nightmare fueled imagination!
Black lives matter!
Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?
I keep trying to find one common thread amongst all the vignettes we've come across about Kepler 22b's past that could lead me to make an informed guess about the history of the planet, but so far all I can come up with is that I don't smoke enough meth.
hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 5:11 pm
I keep trying to find one common thread amongst all the vignettes we've come across about Kepler 22b's past that could lead me to make an informed guess about the history of the planet, but so far all I can come up with is that I don't smoke enough meth.
Probably need to eat some of the funky looking fruit growing around Kepler 22b to gain some perspective...
Black lives matter!
Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?
So number seven is now weaponized. And by weaponized, I mean “carry around tanks like they were tic tacs”. Grandmother’s admission that she was created by ancient humans to protect humanity as a whole was a good reveal. As was what I perceived to be an indication Sol is actually an entity trying to either destroy humanity, or just Kepler 22b.
Sue the tree communicating over a radio and begging to be burned just before being swallowed whole by number 7 was all kinds of disturbing. But it does kind of prove that Sol’s technology is based on bio mechanics of some kind….which is a Ridley Scott hallmark.
And again, when the most normal thing on a show is a headless android flipping people off, you know you’re watching Raised by Wolves.
The most minor of nitpicks (given, well, everything):
Spoiler:
The Acid Ocean.
This is the kind of detail that stands out in a novice writer's SF novel, something that seems cool and alien but ultimately impossible and (even worse) pointless or unnecessary to the story.
An acid ocean that can devour metal flightcraft in seconds would have an enormous toxic effect on the environment of the planet. Oceans and atmosphere are intimately linked, at least at the kind of Earthlike pressure obviously enjoyed on 22b, so human settlers would constantly be breathing acidic gasses. How does the "water" cycle even work on this world? How does the vegetation live? Why are human characters constantly strolling down to the beach to apparently enjoy the ocean spray with no fumes or splashes or other ill-effects?
For this planet to be what it is, that ocean needs to be water. So far, we've seen no serious explanation (or plot-necessary reason) why it isn't.
Holman wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 4:05 pm
The most minor of nitpicks (given, well, everything):
Spoiler:
The Acid Ocean.
This is the kind of detail that stands out in a novice writer's SF novel, something that seems cool and alien but ultimately impossible and (even worse) pointless or unnecessary to the story.
An acid ocean that can devour metal flightcraft in seconds would have an enormous toxic effect on the environment of the planet. Oceans and atmosphere are intimately linked, at least at the kind of Earthlike pressure obviously enjoyed on 22b, so human settlers would constantly be breathing acidic gasses. How does the "water" cycle even work on this world? How does the vegetation live? Why are human characters constantly strolling down to the beach to apparently enjoy the ocean spray with no fumes or splashes or other ill-effects?
For this planet to be what it is, that ocean needs to be water. So far, we've seen no serious explanation (or plot-necessary reason) why it isn't.
I'm not watching the show, but your SF criticism is spot on. They could have:
Spoiler:
had something organic within the ocean destroy metal ships.
Holman wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 4:05 pm
The most minor of nitpicks (given, well, everything):
Spoiler:
The Acid Ocean.
This is the kind of detail that stands out in a novice writer's SF novel, something that seems cool and alien but ultimately impossible and (even worse) pointless or unnecessary to the story.
An acid ocean that can devour metal flightcraft in seconds would have an enormous toxic effect on the environment of the planet. Oceans and atmosphere are intimately linked, at least at the kind of Earthlike pressure obviously enjoyed on 22b, so human settlers would constantly be breathing acidic gasses. How does the "water" cycle even work on this world? How does the vegetation live? Why are human characters constantly strolling down to the beach to apparently enjoy the ocean spray with no fumes or splashes or other ill-effects?
For this planet to be what it is, that ocean needs to be water. So far, we've seen no serious explanation (or plot-necessary reason) why it isn't.
I'm not watching the show, but your SF criticism is spot on. They could have:
Spoiler:
had something organic within the ocean destroy metal ships.
Plus...
Spoiler:
Unless I blinked and missed something, the acid ocean has only destroyed one ship, and its loss could have been handled with just sinking deeper.
It reminds me of a boneheaded error I made in an SF story I wrote years ago. It was set on a 90% Earthlike planet (e.g. normal weather, normal axial tilt, etc). When I showed it to my friend (a very logical sort of reader), his first question was "How does the sun rise in the West?"
I told him I just thought it would strike the reader as odd and unsettling.
Can anyone guess his reply?
Spoiler:
"No," he said. "What you're calling West they would just call East. That's what East means."
Last edited by Holman on Sun Mar 13, 2022 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Holman wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 4:05 pm
The most minor of nitpicks (given, well, everything):
Spoiler:
The Acid Ocean.
This is the kind of detail that stands out in a novice writer's SF novel, something that seems cool and alien but ultimately impossible and (even worse) pointless or unnecessary to the story.
An acid ocean that can devour metal flightcraft in seconds would have an enormous toxic effect on the environment of the planet. Oceans and atmosphere are intimately linked, at least at the kind of Earthlike pressure obviously enjoyed on 22b, so human settlers would constantly be breathing acidic gasses. How does the "water" cycle even work on this world? How does the vegetation live? Why are human characters constantly strolling down to the beach to apparently enjoy the ocean spray with no fumes or splashes or other ill-effects?
For this planet to be what it is, that ocean needs to be water. So far, we've seen no serious explanation (or plot-necessary reason) why it isn't.
I'm not watching the show, but your SF criticism is spot on. They could have:
Spoiler:
had something organic within the ocean destroy metal ships.
Plus...
Spoiler:
Unless I blinked and missed something, the acid ocean has only destroyed one ship, and its loss could have been handled with just sinking deeper.
It reminds me of a boneheaded error I made in an SF story I wrote years ago. It was set on a 90% Earthlike planet (e.g. normal weather, normal axial tilt, etc). When I showed it to my friend (a very logical sort of reader), his first question was "How does the sun rise in the West?"
I told him I just thought it would strike the reader as odd and unsettling.
Can anyone guess his reply?
Spoiler:
"No, he said. What you're calling West they would just call East. That's what East means."
I'm not so sure that is a mistake. If you had a compass that pointed to a North pole, wouldn't you face it and say East is to your right?
Holman wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 4:05 pm
The most minor of nitpicks (given, well, everything):
Spoiler:
The Acid Ocean.
This is the kind of detail that stands out in a novice writer's SF novel, something that seems cool and alien but ultimately impossible and (even worse) pointless or unnecessary to the story.
An acid ocean that can devour metal flightcraft in seconds would have an enormous toxic effect on the environment of the planet. Oceans and atmosphere are intimately linked, at least at the kind of Earthlike pressure obviously enjoyed on 22b, so human settlers would constantly be breathing acidic gasses. How does the "water" cycle even work on this world? How does the vegetation live? Why are human characters constantly strolling down to the beach to apparently enjoy the ocean spray with no fumes or splashes or other ill-effects?
For this planet to be what it is, that ocean needs to be water. So far, we've seen no serious explanation (or plot-necessary reason) why it isn't.
I'm not watching the show, but your SF criticism is spot on. They could have:
Spoiler:
had something organic within the ocean destroy metal ships.
Plus...
Spoiler:
Unless I blinked and missed something, the acid ocean has only destroyed one ship, and its loss could have been handled with just sinking deeper.
It reminds me of a boneheaded error I made in an SF story I wrote years ago. It was set on a 90% Earthlike planet (e.g. normal weather, normal axial tilt, etc). When I showed it to my friend (a very logical sort of reader), his first question was "How does the sun rise in the West?"
I told him I just thought it would strike the reader as odd and unsettling.
Can anyone guess his reply?
Spoiler:
"No, he said. What you're calling West they would just call East. That's what East means."
I'm not so sure that is a mistake. If you had a compass that pointed to a North pole, wouldn't you face it and say East is to your right?
North vs South is arbitrary. If you have two poles, East is where the sun rises and North/South is defined by it.
If the Earth spun the other way, California would be the East Coast and Canada would be South of it.
Of all the bat shit insane things that happens on this show, THAT’S what’s causing you to shake your head?
Every time someone goes to the beach, all I can think of is the ocean spray effect. People should be screaming in agony whenever they get that close for more than a few seconds.
But I suspect there’s more to the acid sea than meets the eye. I wouldn’t be surprised if we find out that Sol (or whatever the unseen enemy is that is pulling all the strings) has a hand in its making and maintenance.
If the show wasn’t so damn entertaining, and the mystery of what’s really happening on Kepler 22b so damn interesting, I would’ve thrown up my hands at some of the more outlandish stuff. So I understand. It’s definitely got a troubled relationship with hard science.
But unlike the Expanse (which I equally enjoy…and miss already ), RbW has always tried to distance itself from that approach. I mentioned it before, but it feels more like a Ray Bradbury tale as opposed to an Isaac Asimov one.
hepcat wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 7:50 pm
But I suspect there’s more to the acid sea than meets the eye. I wouldn’t be surprised if we find out that Sol (or whatever the unseen enemy is that is pulling all the strings) has a hand in its making and maintenance.
Hungry lil' nanobots that just eat everything that falls in -unless- you're one of safe muck-men (that's what I'm calling them).
), RbW has always tried to distance itself from that approach. I mentioned it before, but it feels more like a Ray Bradbury tale as opposed to an Isaac Asimov one.