Intersectionality of Privilege

[coopasonic]

Later this week my company is having an intersectionality symposium and as one of the more well known members of our Allies group, I will be attending. They have given us a template for a background to show our own identities. There are three spaces. I am trying to think of three things to put in there that are more personal and meaningful, without seeming like a joke or counter to the intent.

The obvious surface things are: White, Male, Straight which is all true, but are all privileged identities.

Other things I am thinking of, off the top of my head: Atheist, Introvert, Parent

I also thought about Gamer, but that has become more mainstream. Is there a better modern word for teetotaler? I haven't had alcohol in more than 5 years just as a personal choice.

I'm pretty likely not neurotypical, but I've never had anything diagnosed, so I don't want to make any claims there.

I know you all don't personally know me that well, even those I've spent more than a few days with, but just looking for thoughts and discussion around this.

[LordMortis]

aloof (which might be a projection to describe me actually. ) ... and probably not the best way to be featured on "intersectionality"

I'm Coop. Married for 16 years. 8 and 4 year old boys. 42 years old and I hate people and travel and basically anything different. I've lived in 5 states, none of which are on MHS' list (AZ, NY, PA, SC, TX) and been in the Dallas area for 16 years.

I do not resemble my avatar (in appearance).

With the exception of Letters from Whitechapel, if Isgrimnur likes it, I probably don't and vice versa. This applies to sports, food, television, reading and everything else. Another exception may be figuring stuff out.

Also, totally not a foodie.

Then what exactly ARE YOU? Besides Coop that is!

Computer Programmer, Board Gamer, Video Gamer, Runner, Father, Husband, Tesla Enthusiast, Sarcastic, Anxious, Lazy, Early Riser, Unsympathetic, Critical... I think that about sums it up. I'm sure there are other words that can be used to define me, but I think that mostly covers it.

Is there a better modern word for teetotaler?

When we were young the term was straight edge but it did not come without a certain baggage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight_edge

[Jaymann]

Sober, Superior, Sophomoric.

[El Guapo]

Do they give any examples? Would help to have a sense of what they have in mind. I would think that this would involve stuff that would impact people's immediate reaction to you / perception of you, which would I think be more along the lines of white & male & religion (so atheist seems relevant).

Also, does Texas still allow companies based there to have allies groups and intersectionality conferences? Seems awfully socialist and woke to me.

[LawBeefaroni]

I also thought about Gamer, but that has become more mainstream. Is there a better modern word for teetotaler? I haven't had alcohol in more than 5 years just as a personal choice.

How do you feel about punk?


Physical traits are usually good bets. Very tall, short, large, skinny, bad eyesight, bad hearing...

[LordMortis]

How do you feel about punk?

:p

[coopasonic]

Do they give any examples? Would help to have a sense of what they have in mind.

Examples were what you more typically think of with respect to identity, Gay, Black, Woman, Parent, etc

[Smoove_B]

As another white, hetero middle-aged man I think I'd be hesitant to put anything on the labels that would in any way seem like I was trying to compete with or minimize the labels others are going to be using. I guess I'd be concerned that someone would think I was trying to come up with something to distract from my glaringly obvious VIP status. Case in point, I give a lecture ever semester on diversity, which I am quick to point out is the height of irony and I don't want the information to seem disingenuous just because of who I am.

[Default]

"redshirt away team"

[Jag]

Do they give any examples? Would help to have a sense of what they have in mind.

Examples were what you more typically think of with respect to identity, Gay, Black, Woman, Parent, etc

But that kind of is your identity, so isn't it disingenuous to hide from it. Isn't the point to acknowledge and embrace who you are.

You could also say you are a GenX. I guess that's considered privileged too from what I hear. We do have our own set of issues.

[coopasonic]

As another white, hetero middle-aged man I think I'd be hesitant to put anything on the labels that would in any way seem like I was trying to compete with or minimize the labels others are going to be using. I guess I'd be concerned that someone would think I was trying to come up with something to distract from my glaringly obvious VIP status. Case in point, I give a lecture ever semester on diversity, which I am quick to point out is the height of irony and I don't want the information to seem disingenuous just because of who I am.

This even t is run by the Allies org so there is a lot of privilege and its understood. I don't think it would be taken in a negative manner, but that's really why I am asking for input.

[coopasonic]

Do they give any examples? Would help to have a sense of what they have in mind.

Examples were what you more typically think of with respect to identity, Gay, Black, Woman, Parent, etc

But that kind of is your identity, so isn't it disingenuous to hide from it. Isn't the point to acknowledge and embrace who you are.

You could also say you are a GenX. I guess that's considered privileged too from what I hear. We do have our own set of issues.

Yes. It is and yes, I have a very privileged identity. I just don't know that it is worth calling out the obvious.

[Scuzz]

This is a new term to me. I could easily see getting myself in trouble with it.

[Max Peck]

The only people I know who self-identify as "sober" are recovering alcoholics or substance abusers. I'd steer clear of that as a synonym for teetotaller unless that's actually what you're going for.

[hepcat]

You’ll be fine, I’m sure. And if it does start to go badly, just do what I do in an awkward situation: drop a smoke bomb and run.

[Zarathud]

The goal is to establish your identities. What you identify with, rather than stereotypes. Programmer and atheist would seem true. It’s like naming a preferred pronoun.

Non-drinker would be appropriate for a something the audience might not guess, but it’s behavior not an assumption. Personally I would say Chinese while looking like a nice Jewish lawyer. Which I’m not, just influenced by friends who were Jewish.

[Holman]

As another white, hetero middle-aged man I think I'd be hesitant to put anything on the labels that would in any way seem like I was trying to compete with or minimize the labels others are going to be using.

This.

You (and I) have benefited from structural inequality even where we weren't aware of it. You don't have to flagellate yourself for it, but it's good for everyone if those of us in this advantaged position recognize that not everyone has been in this advantaged position.

[Jaymann]

You’ll be fine, I’m sure. And if it does start to go badly, just do what I do in an awkward situation: drop a smoke bomb my pants and run.

FIFY

[Smoove_B]

I've been thinking about this for hours and the best I could come up with (that I still wouldn't use) is being left-handed. It's absolutely part of my identity and it's undoubtedly influenced any number of things about me, namely related to a general difficulty in doing many things 90% of the population takes for granted. But I wouldn't list being left-handed on my label for this event because I wouldn't want to suggest to someone that my inability to find a pair of left-handed scissors as a kid means I now need to use right handed scissors all the time is anything like being a Black woman in corporate America (in my imagination - I have no idea what it's like, but I'm guessing it's not great in many places).

[Grifman]

I've been thinking about this for hours and the best I could come up with (that I still wouldn't use) is being left-handed. It's absolutely part of my identity and it's undoubtedly influenced any number of things about me, namely related to a general difficulty in doing many things 90% of the population takes for granted. But I wouldn't list being left-handed on my label for this event because I wouldn't want to suggest to someone that my inability to find a pair of left-handed scissors as a kid means I now need to use right handed scissors all the time is anything like being a Black woman in corporate America (in my imagination - I have no idea what it's like, but I'm guessing it's not great in many places).

This is what I hate about this stuff - all the second guessing about how what you say is going to be taken, as noted in this post and others. If you have to second guess everything you say, therein lies madness. I have no problem being sensitive towards people - and we should be - but to me, at some point this gets to be crazy. If you can't be authentic about who you think you are, then what's the point?

[LordMortis]

If you can't be authentic about who you think you are, then what's the point?

It's the window johari's window of how you see yourself. How do you identify? Call yourself Sis, male, geek, runner, non drinker, programmer, killjoy, video gamer, whatever you see yourself as.

In the window I see you as, you talk mostly about gaming with your kid and managing your team at work (and much more pleasant than talking how you talk about when you seemed much less happy). So from my window, it's video gaming, program managing, parent but it's not about me identifying you. It's about you identifying yourself.

[coopasonic]

I've been thinking about this for hours and the best I could come up with (that I still wouldn't use) is being left-handed. It's absolutely part of my identity and it's undoubtedly influenced any number of things about me, namely related to a general difficulty in doing many things 90% of the population takes for granted. But I wouldn't list being left-handed on my label for this event because I wouldn't want to suggest to someone that my inability to find a pair of left-handed scissors as a kid means I now need to use right handed scissors all the time is anything like being a Black woman in corporate America (in my imagination - I have no idea what it's like, but I'm guessing it's not great in many places).

This is what I hate about this stuff - all the second guessing about how what you say is going to be taken, as noted in this post and others. If you have to second guess everything you say, therein lies madness. I have no problem being sensitive towards people - and we should be - but to me, at some point this gets to be crazy. If you can't be authentic about who you think you are, then what's the point?

There's a reason I have worked at this same place as a programmer for 20 years when I could have easily made more money bouncing around. I've found a place that was inclusive before that term was mainstream. A place that genuinely seems to care about individuals health, happiness and success. Now that I am in leadership, I am even more convinced. Yes, I came into this role in the height of DIB, but I've seen echoes of the same efforts for as long as I have been here.

Thinking about it more this morning, I am thinking of something like this:
Introvert Privileged
Atheist White
Non-Drinker Male

Yeah it still feels like a call for attention where I shouldn't be the focus, but it is also an acknowledgement of my position.

[Smoove_B]

If you can't be authentic about who you think you are, then what's the point?

I can be authentic about being a left-handed gamer. I would never want to suggest to anyone that it has impacted my career or my ability to earn money in any capacity.

Yeah it still feels like a call for attention where I shouldn't be the focus, but it is also an acknowledgement of my position.

I think acknowledgement is important and my sense is that when it is genuinely acknowledged, it is appreciated. I try to be aware of this at all times, especially in my current position where (not surprisingly) white/male is overwhelming dominant.

[noxiousdog]

I've been thinking about this for hours and the best I could come up with (that I still wouldn't use) is being left-handed. It's absolutely part of my identity and it's undoubtedly influenced any number of things about me, namely related to a general difficulty in doing many things 90% of the population takes for granted. But I wouldn't list being left-handed on my label for this event because I wouldn't want to suggest to someone that my inability to find a pair of left-handed scissors as a kid means I now need to use right handed scissors all the time is anything like being a Black woman in corporate America (in my imagination - I have no idea what it's like, but I'm guessing it's not great in many places).

This is what I hate about this stuff - all the second guessing about how what you say is going to be taken, as noted in this post and others. If you have to second guess everything you say, therein lies madness. I have no problem being sensitive towards people - and we should be - but to me, at some point this gets to be crazy. If you can't be authentic about who you think you are, then what's the point?

That's the point of the exercise. It's to make you uncomfortable and understand why.

[coopasonic]

I also thought about Gamer, but that has become more mainstream. Is there a better modern word for teetotaler? I haven't had alcohol in more than 5 years just as a personal choice.

How do you feel about punk?


Physical traits are usually good bets. Very tall, short, large, skinny, bad eyesight, bad hearing...

In addition to being a straight white male, I also have the pleasure of being of basically average height and pretty close to optimal (BMI-wise) weight. I guess I could go with "four-eyes" but it's not even bad enough that I actually need to wear glasses in most cases. From a purely physical standpoint, ginger would probably be where I stand out the most, but even that, I think, works to my advantage.

[Grifman]

If you can't be authentic about who you think you are, then what's the point?

I can be authentic about being a left-handed gamer. I would never want to suggest to anyone that it has impacted my career or my ability to earn money in any capacity.

That’s weird, where did anyone in this thread ever claim that?

[Grifman]

That's the point of the exercise. It's to make you uncomfortable and understand why.

Why should I feel uncomfortable about who/what I am? If I am a straight white male, why should I feel uncomfortable with that? I didn’t choose any of those physical characteristics. I shouldn’t be
uncomfortable being who I am any more than any minority person should be. Aware of inequities, past and present, sure. Seek to address inequities, most certainly. Being uncomfortable with who I am - crazy.

[stessier]

That's the point of the exercise. It's to make you uncomfortable and understand why.

Why should I feel uncomfortable about who/what I am? If I am a straight white male, why should I feel uncomfortable with that? I didn’t choose any of those physical characteristics. I shouldn’t be
uncomfortable being who I am any more than any minority person should be. Aware of inequities, past and present, sure. Seek to address inequities, most certainly. Being uncomfortable with who I am - crazy.

How about reframing it as being uncomfortable with the situation and circumstances you find yourself in as a result of who you are?

[coopasonic]

I don't think uncomfortable is the right word. Finding or identifying ways in which you are or could be marginalized or othered, can open your eyes to the way others are treated and why that happens.

[Smoove_B]

That’s weird, where did anyone in this thread ever claim that?

Unless I misunderstand this event, it's about getting people to recognize and see inherent privilege and/or bias in the workplace. In other words, its forcing people to think about how they look at others vs how others see themselves and what that might mean for their interactions.

If you think your status as a white male hasn't afforded you all kinds of advantages in life, then I guess that's where there's some confusion. I am firmly in the Louis CK frame of mind with this.

Here's how great it is to be white: I can get in a time machine and go to any time, and it would be fucking awesome when I get there! That is exclusively a white privilege.

...

Now, if you're white and you don't admit that it's great, you're an asshole. It is great. And I'm a man. How many advantages could one person have? I'm a white man. You can't even hurt my feelings!

[LordMortis]

Gotta say I was off on this according to wiki. I didn't see it about marginalization and empowerment but that is specifically what it is. I just assumed it was about the intersection of how one sees themselves vs how others see them but I was way off.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality

ntersectionality is an analytical framework for understanding how aspects of a person's social and political identities combine to create different modes of discrimination and privilege. The term was coined by Kimberlé Williams Crenshaw in 1989.[1]: 385  Intersectionality identifies multiple factors of advantage and disadvantage.[2] Examples of these factors include gender, caste, sex, race, ethnicity, class, sexuality, religion, disability, weight, physical appearance,[3][4] and height.[5] These intersecting and overlapping social identities may be both empowering and oppressing.[6][7]

Intersectionality broadens the lens of the first and second waves of feminism, which largely focused on the experiences of women who were both white and middle-class, to include the different experiences of women of color, women who are poor, immigrant women, and other groups. Intersectional feminism aims to separate itself from white feminism by acknowledging women's different experiences and identities.[8]

Intersectionality is a qualitative analytic framework developed in the late 20th century that identifies how interlocking systems of power affect those who are most marginalized in society.[1][page range too broad] Activists use the framework to promote social and political egalitarianism.[8] Intersectionality opposes analytical systems that treat each axis of oppression in isolation, as if discrimination against black women could be explained as simply misogyny or simply racism.[9] For example, Crenshaw has pointed to the 1976 case DeGraffenreid v. General Motors, in which the plaintiffs alleged hiring practices that specifically discriminated against black women and that could not be described as either racial discrimination or sex discrimination alone.[10][11]: 141–143  Intersectionality engages in similar themes as triple oppression, which is the oppression associated with being a poor and/or immigrant woman of color. Intersectional analysis aligns very closely with anarcha-feminist power analysis frameworks.

So they are looking for straight white irreligious tall middle aged lower middle class fat divorced childless man in exceptionally poor health

[noxiousdog]

That's the point of the exercise. It's to make you uncomfortable and understand why.

Why should I feel uncomfortable about who/what I am? If I am a straight white male, why should I feel uncomfortable with that? I didn’t choose any of those physical characteristics. I shouldn’t be
uncomfortable being who I am any more than any minority person should be. Aware of inequities, past and present, sure. Seek to address inequities, most certainly. Being uncomfortable with who I am - crazy.

You shouldn't, and yet we all have some insecurities.

By understanding that how we feel about our own insecurities you can think about how you may affect others positively and negatively about theirs. Especially when it's a core physical trait upon which they have little influence.

[stessier]

That's the point of the exercise. It's to make you uncomfortable and understand why.

Why should I feel uncomfortable about who/what I am? If I am a straight white male, why should I feel uncomfortable with that? I didn’t choose any of those physical characteristics. I shouldn’t be
uncomfortable being who I am any more than any minority person should be. Aware of inequities, past and present, sure. Seek to address inequities, most certainly. Being uncomfortable with who I am - crazy.

You shouldn't, and yet we all have some insecurities.

By understanding that how we feel about our own insecurities you can think about how you may affect others positively and negatively about theirs. Especially when it's a core physical trait upon which they have little influence.

Maybe I misunderstand you, but it's not about insecurities. It's about the very real differences in life experiences based on traits no one can control.

[stessier]

I don't think uncomfortable is the right word. Finding or identifying ways in which you are or could be marginalized or othered, can open your eyes to the way others are treated and why that happens.

I think being uncomfortable is a common outcome for people on the privileged end of the spectrum after learning about these topics.

[coopasonic]

Yes, uncomfortable is probably an appropriate response, but it isn't the goal.

[stessier]

Yes, uncomfortable is probably an appropriate response, but it isn't the goal.

Fair.

[noxiousdog]

Maybe I misunderstand you, but it's not about insecurities. It's about the very real differences in life experiences based on traits no one can control.

I know. And by thinking about how your particular life experiences based on traits you can't control... especially minor ones .. have affected you personally lets you empathize with with other peoples' situation who have to deal with it in a much more major way.

It's not that it -should- make you uncomfortable; it's that it does.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Personally, I would suggest taking this as a challenge to cook up suitably florid tales worthy of Baron Munchausen, e.g.

1. How your flirtation with the Duchess of Daventry led to your bold discovery of the Crown Jewels of Sweden, hidden inside a live cow.
2. How you recognised a sheep as the long-lost second son of the Earl of Pucklechurch, and helped effect his escape from bandits on half a horse.
3. How you convinced the Bishop of Boddlington to boil his beard, and classify his moustache as a potent herb at Kew Gardens.

[coopasonic]

It turns out the effort was largely pointless as there was really only one session where there would have been a potential audience, but apparently we went beyond what zoom supported and only a fraction of people were able to participate in that session. My background was never seen.

Regardless, the discussion as very good with some great internal and external speakers, including the woman that coined the term intersectionality, telling us what it means and how it came to be. There's a TED Talk that covers the same ground from a few years ago if you are interested.

[Alefroth]

Is there a better modern word for teetotaler? I haven't had alcohol in more than 5 years just as a personal choice.

Just came across this- https://www.thecut.com/2022/01/im-tired ... TczDVU3rtw