Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:42 am

No, streaming HBO Max here also, but my cable/fiber modem is literally next to my Apple TV, direct connected.

You raise a good point though: Macro-blocking and crushing blacks can be a result of a low bitrate stream.

Also outdated or even poor HDMI cables can wreak havoc with PQ. I battled that myself for a long while before I realized the issue.

Not discounting the complaints at all just bc I wasn’t off put, just suggesting that there are plenty of potential technical culprits for challenging dark scenes beyond a poorly designed/created/lit/edited scene.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:24 am

I would accept that to be true if it weren't for the fact that there are a lot of news articles in large periodicals mentioning the issue. I think it really is just a sloppy execution, as the (professed) cinematographer I quoted earlier noted.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:59 am

I wash out the gamma on my PC screen for games that are too dark since I can do it with one slider adjustment. I'm not going to reset my TV screen for 10 minutes of one show when everything else looks great.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:06 am

But....but....Dragons! Incest! Toddler knife fights!

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:43 pm

what's weird I was watching on my phone and didn't find it dark. I stopped watching after the dragon riding scene. I continued when I got back home from Vegas and had to manually continue where I left off because for some reason it didn't sync/ I went back a bit where I already saw the dragon scene, and man it was so dark. Like almost night and day. Not sure if my phone is just brighter, but I really didn't have any problems. Both were viewed during night with the room being dark.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed Oct 05, 2022 4:33 pm

Yeah I watched it on my computer (with another light on in the room), and while it was obviously dark I could still see everything without any adjustments.

But I agree that if enough of the audience is complaining about this technical matter, it was an unfortunate choice.

Kurth · Post by **Kurth** » Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:19 pm

+1 in the "great episode, but way too dark" camp.

JCC · Post by **JCC** » Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:30 pm

Decided to take a look at the dark scenes again without any ambient daylight. While I could see "better" than I did watching it Monday at lunch time - in that I could actually see everything now, whereas, it was hard to figure out what was going on during the day - it still looked like shit. This is on an OLED mind you, (in HDR Mode where certain brightness settings are jacked up) in a dark room with the only ambient light being a LED strip behind the TV at a very low setting. I can't imagine how dim this would look on a traditional LED or older LCD.

It was a big miss by the production staff. And, as others have noted, it was also most likely done with a poor looking filter. Seriously, there needs to be an arbiter of common sense on these shows with veto power over clearly dumb ideas like this.

JCC · Post by **JCC** » Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:33 pm

Oh man, just to add. Watching the behind the scenes stuff which I didn't have time for on Monday. First line from one of the producers: "This episode feels like a darker time in the world of The House of the Dragon". Brother, you said it! LOL.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:32 pm

What do you mean by "traditional LED"? Most LEDs made these days are brighter than OLEDs (this is the main thing that sets apart, say, the Samsung Q90B from an LG C2).

My 2016 Samsung is an LED (with an early version of their Quantum Dots) and as I've said before, I have no issues watching dark scenes on this show.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:29 am

I think it's time I play this card as an interrupt

JCC · Post by **JCC** » Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:19 am

pr0ner wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:32 pm What do you mean by "traditional LED"? Most LEDs made these days are brighter than OLEDs (this is the main thing that sets apart, say, the Samsung Q90B from an LG C2).

My 2016 Samsung is an LED (with an early version of their Quantum Dots) and as I've said before, I have no issues watching dark scenes on this show.

Yes they are brighter. OLEDs are better at showing details in dark scenes because they don't have a backlight and every pixel is individually lit. That's why an OLED is better for dark scenes.

LED's are able to have higher peak brightness for HDR content.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:27 am

Watched last night. I haven't had my whack at the horse yet, so I'll just provide the definitive response on the darkness and everyone can just agree to agree with me.

It's too damn dark. It's a massive show made for massive a audience, and much of that audience will have no clue about proper calibration of TVs. It's a bad business decision to alienate part of your audience by making too much of the video unviewable, and it's gatekeeping to suggest that only those who properly calibrate their TVs should be able to enjoy all aspects of the show (especially when there are still complaints from people who have properly calibrated their TVs).

I have spoken.

I also never addressed the "time jump" controversy from last week's episode, so I'll resolve that one while I'm at it. I haven't read the source material, but I generally keep up with the non-podcast/video coverage of HotD on Ringer.com. I don't see how the time jump was confusing (but I also knew to expect it). I thought recasting the lead actresses was smart - it helped to emphasize that we'd gone through a time jump (spoiler is for next week's preview)

Spoiler:

and I think it helped to allay any potential confusion by making it super clear that they were older. It is interesting that Criston Cole doesn't age, but maybe he just has good genetics?

In this episode, I loved how awkward the initial funeral scene was, and they took the time to really let the audience in on the awkwardness. My wife and I were joking that the entire episode was going to be people walking around on that ledge making awkward gestures to one another, and I think I would been OK with that.

I was also really enjoying Aemond getting to claim Vhagar, since he had been picked on previously by the other kids. I was excited for him - then he had his heel turn. Regarding the safety of riding dragons, I think it's worth noting that he was riding a dragon for the first time (and not just any dragon, but the biggest dragon in the world) using the saddle/harness of its previous rider, who was considerably bigger than him. I'm still happy for him that he got his dragon, even if he ends up being a jerk.

I found it interesting that even as Rhanerya was being kind at the end, it was still at the expense of an innocent life.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:43 am

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:27 am Watched last night. I haven't had my whack at the horse yet

To be fair though, no one had yet played a Glutton of Urborg card.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 12:24 am

Daemon: I move that the motion be postponed indefinitely.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:35 am

That was a fantastic episode. I don't recall ever seeing the Driftwood throne before, but I thought it looked awesome (and it's a cool idea).

Still not really sure what to make of all the kids (as the focus of the story seems to be shifting), especially Goro Majima Aemond. They've clearly turned him into a monster, but I also feel like the show (so far) is subverting expectations a bit. As the obvious problem, that feels too straight forward, but maybe I'm wrong.

Quite curious to see where this is going over the two remaining episodes.

JCC · Post by **JCC** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 1:29 pm

I loved the episode as well and continue to love the show...

However, I didn't really understand the final scene (and in fact didn't realize I didn't undertand the final scene) until watching the post credits interviews. They should have made that scene a lot more clear (at least for me). Maybe I am just thick but watching post credits interviews shouldn't be the way to follow what the hell is going on. Again, free to call me thick - I won't even argue with you, but my friend who watched last night also texted me with "Make sure you watch the after explanation to understand the last scene." So, he also didn't catch it.

Spoiler:

So me and my friend didn't catch that. That seems like it needed to be more clear. Or, we are both dumb. If everyone else caught on right away, please let me know and I will enjoy being mocked. haha.

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 1:43 pm

That final scene is so haunting. Considine deserves an Emmy.

Half the time I think this show fails to rise above the salaciousness of its predecessor, but these last two episodes have really impressed me. I think some of the characters' motivations have become muddled or failed to blossom through the recent time jumps. And the Mortal-Kombat-level gore is more laughable than shocking at this point. But the drama and character development is really solid.

JCC · Post by **JCC** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 2:00 pm

Yeah Paddy is awesome in this. I was joking with a friend a week ago about how old he looks, especially since he's actually a year younger than I am. Good makeup!

Kurth · Post by **Kurth** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:13 pm

One thing that confused the hell out of me with this last episode was the actors they picked for Aegon and Aemond.

When last we saw them, Aegon appeared significantly older than Aemond, who seemed only a few years older than Jace and Luke during the epic and disturbing Battle of the Lilliputians.

After this latest time jump, Aemond (minus one eye) now appears significantly older than Aegon. He's physically much more imposing than his brother, and he also looks like he's years older than Aegon.

Was it just me, or was that a really strange casting decision?

Edited to add: I just did some quick research on this, and the real ages of the actors actually line up well:

Young Aegon - 20 (Ty Tennant)
Young Aemond - 14 (Leo Ashton)

Older Aegon - 27 (Tom Glynn-Carney)
Older Aemond - 20 (Ewan Mitchell, who I didn't realize was also Osferth in The Last Kingdom)

Still, for some reason, the actor who played older Aegon just looked so much younger to me than the older Aemond, especially when compared to the apparent ages of the younger actors.

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 4:53 pm

Excellent episode. I must admit that I have trouble keeping the characters straight, both with changing actors and not remembering anyone's names.

One of Alicent's sons is a monster. One is perhaps a schemer like his uncle. I can't tell if he's good or bad. I also didn't get the insult in his toast at first. I thought the prince was mad that he called them "boys." I had forgotten that their father's surname was Strong.

It's an interesting bone of contention. The king's sons have a legitimate reason to be pissed at their nephews. They are quite obviously bastards and, as such, should not inherit the kingdom. That does not make the uncles bad people for wanting to challenge them. Well, Aegon is a bad person, but Aemond might be good.

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 5:00 pm

I can recall who most people are but I have a hard time remembering how they relate to each other and just how inbred some of the betrothals are. I'd also like to know the genetics of why some people get the silver hair and others don't.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:10 pm

Is the throne of swords spreading? I don’t recall the “Path of Death” leading up to the throne prior to this. At least install a goddamn guard rail, people. I mean, does the cleaning staff just find mounds of impaled bodies the morning after every royal party? When the number one cause of death for your liege lords is a chair, it’s time to hire a new interior decorator.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:13 pm

I was laughing and thinking no way was that an OSHA approved throne approach. I really was half expecting him to take a tumble and skewer himself.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:15 pm

Vertigo shouldn’t be fatal. That’s all I’m saying.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:31 pm

Another great episode. I had very low expectations for this show, but it immediately hooked me after the first episode.

FWIW, I thought the last scene was pretty clear with what was happening. I’ve tended to need podcasts or multiple watches to pick up on all of the details with HotD and GoT, but I thought that scene was fairly straightforward. However, my wife was confused and needed the after credits explanation.

It was particularly brutal because it almost looks like the king is able to get all of the civil war toothpaste back into the tube, only to screw it all up at the end.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:38 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:15 pm Vertigo shouldn’t be fatal. That’s all I’m saying.

Unless you're in Russia.

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 11:16 pm

Is anyone else surprised at how easily the main characters get over seeing really horrible things? Decapitations, heads being bashed in, a kid stabbing a bully to death, etc. These things happen and thirty minutes later even the kids are showing no signs of being traumatized.

I might have understood the last scene better if I had a clear understanding of the names. It doesn't help that some have the same name.

Kurth · Post by **Kurth** » Tue Oct 11, 2022 1:02 am

McNutt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 11:16 pm Is anyone else surprised at how easily the main characters get over seeing really horrible things? Decapitations, heads being bashed in, a kid stabbing a bully to death, etc. These things happen and thirty minutes later even the kids are showing no signs of being traumatized.

I might have understood the last scene better if I had a clear understanding of the names. It doesn't help that some have the same name.

Just a sign of the times.

BTW, what kid stabbed a bully to death? Did I miss that?

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:19 am

When the princess was interviewing suitors, there was one kid who was being picked on by some 20yo (guess) suitor. They ended up dueling after he called the kid craven.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:28 am

Must have been a bummer for Wes Craven growing up.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:37 am

God Viserys's face was unpleasant to look at this episode. I know that was the point but...kind of wish they cranked up the darkness filters whenever he was onscreen.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Tue Oct 11, 2022 10:15 am

McNutt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 11:16 pm Is anyone else surprised at how easily the main characters get over seeing really horrible things? Decapitations, heads being bashed in, a kid stabbing a bully to death, etc. These things happen and thirty minutes later even the kids are showing no signs of being traumatized.

I might have understood the last scene better if I had a clear understanding of the names. It doesn't help that some have the same name.

But having the same names is important for the intended confusion. Viserys was referencing Aegon's prophecy while Alicent thought he was talking about her son Aegon.

FWIW, I didn't have any problems following the last scene, although I thought it was little clumsy and told my wife it would make for a great episode if HotD were a sitcom.

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Tue Oct 11, 2022 10:20 am

I just don't understand how Alicent could think that's what he meant. "Our Aegon? But he's an asshole!"

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Tue Oct 11, 2022 10:37 am

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 10:15 am But having the same names is important for the intended confusion. Viserys was referencing Aegon's prophecy while Alicent thought he was talking about her son Aegon.

FWIW, I didn't have any problems following the last scene, although I thought it was little clumsy and told my wife it would make for a great episode if HotD were a sitcom.

I agree. The writing requires them to have the same name. I'm just always lost when they start talking about people with crazy, but similar sounding names. Aegon, Aemond, Rhaenys, Rhaenyra. I need to see faces to help me, but then the faces change.

And yes, this is totally a Three's Company predicament.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Oct 11, 2022 10:39 am

Sudy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 10:20 am I just don't understand how Alicent could think that's what he meant. "Our Aegon? But he's an asshole!"

Well, I think there's a bit of hearing what she wants to hear. "What's that? You want me to say that you wanted my son and therefore my family line to inherit the iron throne, instead of my rival? Ok if that's what you really want..."

And yeah, she knows that Aegon (the Elder) is an asshole, but he's still her son.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Oct 11, 2022 11:50 am

McNutt wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 10:37 am
And yes, this is totally a Three's Company predicament.

I think that every time a show has a situation that arises solely due to someone overhearing something and misunderstanding it.

I usually call it a Mr Roper Moment.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:04 pm

McNutt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 11:16 pm Is anyone else surprised at how easily the main characters get over seeing really horrible things? Decapitations, heads being bashed in, a kid stabbing a bully to death, etc. These things happen and thirty minutes later even the kids are showing no signs of being traumatized.

It's a pretty harsh world, and "don't look away" is a virtue. (Remember Jon's advice to Bran at the execution of the Night's Watch deserter in GoT s1e1.)

But they don't really get over them. This is a world where basically everyone has PTSD.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:05 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:04 pm This is a world where basically everyone has PTSD.

I wonder what that would feel/look like in real life?

/sarcasm

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Oct 12, 2022 10:33 pm