Jagged Alliance 3 (again!)

[coopasonic]

Patch Notes 1.02

Highlights:
Economy: Mines will drop income much slower when they begin to deplete

Grrrrr.... I already have one fully depleted mine dammit. On the other hand I have $350k and it keeps going up so It seems unlikely to be an actual problem.

Lately I've kind of been putzing around, solidifying control of the second island, completing side quests and training up militia. There's a lot to do in this game beyond the main story.

[jztemple2]

Sounds like I need to start achievement farming!

I've never really cared about looking to get achievements, I was just curious when I get that pop-up telling me I've gotten one. I have no idea what criteria they use to determine an extreme range kill.

Patch Notes 1.02

Highlights:
Economy: Mines will drop income much slower when they begin to deplete

Grrrrr.... I already have one fully depleted mine dammit. On the other hand I have $350k and it keeps going up so It seems unlikely to be an actual problem.

Lately I've kind of been putzing around, solidifying control of the second island, completing side quests and training up militia. There's a lot to do in this game beyond the main story.

I'm in the same boat, I've had that first mine deplete but I've got two more working. I've got $520K because I'm so worried about more mine depletions and I want to have a surplus that I refuse to hire expensive mercs until I'm forced to.

UPDATE: From the patch notes, "Combine items now uses the most skilled merc in the sector (instead of the most skilled from the squad)". That will be handy since I've been using my two squads together at times.

[Punisher]

Patch Notes 1.02

Highlights:
Economy: Mines will drop income much slower when they begin to deplete

Grrrrr.... I already have one fully depleted mine dammit. On the other hand I have $350k and it keeps going up so It seems unlikely to be an actual problem.

Lately I've kind of been putzing around, solidifying control of the second island, completing side quests and training up militia. There's a lot to do in this game beyond the main story.

If interested there is a mod that makes the mines unlimited.

[Archinerd]

Is anyone attempting this with only 1 squad? is it even possible?
I'm at the point were I have a squad and a half, and already the management of weapons, armor, and especially ammo is becoming unbearably tedious.

[Max Peck]

Is anyone attempting this with only 1 squad? is it even possible?
I'm at the point were I have a squad and a half, and already the management of weapons, armor, and especially ammo is becoming unbearably tedious.

Sort of? I have one main squad with 6 mercs that does all the fighting, and a support squad of 3 that only run around training militias to replace losses after they get hit by Legion raiders.

[jztemple2]

Is anyone attempting this with only 1 squad? is it even possible?
I'm at the point were I have a squad and a half, and already the management of weapons, armor, and especially ammo is becoming unbearably tedious.

I would guess it is possible with one squad, heck it might even be an achievement. For me, with the default difficulty settings, it would probably be impossible. So I'm running multiple squads.

I have two squads of six (A+B), each is pretty balanced with specialists in explosives, mechanical and medical. I have another squad (C) of two guys, one was a freebie with a 93 in explosives, the other having decent strength. I have a fourth squad (D) of one guy who has high leadership.

A and B I use separately when exploring and taking out small enemy squads. If I'm going to a bigger location with more enemies I combine them in the attack (thanks Punisher! ). I add squad C to those combined attacks, otherwise I use C as a fetch and carry squad to move stuff around. C is also useful when an enemy force attacks one of my militias and drops a bunch of loot, C squad goes and collects it. D squad is primarily used to initially train militia and then if there is an enemy attack against a militia location I send D to go retrain them up to full strength.

So, is squad management "unbearably tedious"? No, because I don't sweat the small details. Once I set up the loadout for a squad I don't bother tweaking it unless we capture a bunch of loot and then I do some reassigning of resources. Part of that is my approach to combat, I eschew melee loadouts and LMGs and go for range weapons, trying to have all of them with silencers/suppressors so I can stay in stealth as long as possible. Everybody also has a CQB secondary weapon and also a grenade or similar if available.

My latest achievements record with the comparison to Coop.

[Max Peck]

Is anyone attempting this with only 1 squad? is it even possible?
I'm at the point were I have a squad and a half, and already the management of weapons, armor, and especially ammo is becoming unbearably tedious.

I would guess it is possible with one squad, heck it might even be an achievement.

There are achievements for completing the campaign with just two (Dynamic Duo) or one (Lone Wolf) hired mercenaries at the same time. If those are doable, then completing the campaign with a whole squad should be cakewalk in comparison.

There's also an achievement for speed-runners: Time Is Money (Finish the campaign before 1 May, 2001).

[Archinerd]

Is anyone attempting this with only 1 squad? is it even possible?
I'm at the point were I have a squad and a half, and already the management of weapons, armor, and especially ammo is becoming unbearably tedious.

Sort of? I have one main squad with 6 mercs that does all the fighting, and a support squad of 3 that only run around training militias to replace losses after they get hit by Legion raiders.

This is generally what I'm doing, but keeping the 3 man squad supplied with ammo is a chore.
I have B-team take easy fights or help on defense when available.

Thanks for the feedback all.
New plan, run out current contracts. By then I'll either get the hang of 2 squads, or I can revert back to a single one.

[coopasonic]

I think I can finish up the game pretty much any time at this point. I have all the mines secured and most of the outposts with a net income around 24k/day. I never did bother hiring any legendary mercs. I guess I should for the achievement. I probably would have finished this weekend if Remnant 2 didn't start soaking up a bunch of time.

[Isgrimnur]

There's also an achievement for speed-runners: Time Is Money (Finish the campaign before 1 May, 2001).

[Max Peck]

I just upgraded my training cadre (Raider, Raven and Wolf) to a full squad by adding Vicki, Ivan and Blood. Those three are the mercs who consistently feature in theorycrafting discussions about the Lone Wolf achievement, so I wanted to take them out for a spin to see how they perform.

This is generally what I'm doing, but keeping the 3 man squad supplied with ammo is a chore.

My solution to that problem so far has been to take advantage of the huge stash of gear that accumlated at the appropriately named Camp La Barriere (G10). A lot of Legion raiding parties are routed through that sector, so I was able to scavenge a lot of weapons, gear and ammo there. It didn't hurt that the cadre spent a lot of time there anyway, because they regularly needed to replace militia losses to maintain control of the camp.

I haven't tried it, but it should also be possible to swap supplies with the main squad if they are both in the same sector.

[jztemple2]

I haven't tried it, but it should also be possible to swap supplies with the main squad if they are both in the same sector.

Yup, when squads are in the same sector you can drop something from one squad into the stash and then switch to the other squad and pick it up. I've been doing this especially to balance out meds and salvage. I even did it one time for all the ammo, but that was a pain so I'm not bothering with it again

I've also never crafted any ammo, since those are just upgraded versions of a basic cartridge. The AP versions are the only ones I really need and I usually have enough stock in hand. I've been trying to use the Dragunov as my standard long gun so I need to have enough AP for those.

[jztemple2]

Oops, just found a situation where once a squad entered a sector with bad guys, the clock stops and won't advance so I can't bring another squad in . I'll have to fight it with just one squad then.

[Max Peck]

Can you retreat and try to move them both at the same time?

[Punisher]

Oops, just found a situation where once a squad entered a sector with bad guys, the clock stops and won't advance so I can't bring another squad in . I'll have to fight it with just one squad then.

Was this on a specific sector? I've been able to postpone fights all the time and wait for backup.

[jztemple2]

Oops, just found a situation where once a squad entered a sector with bad guys, the clock stops and won't advance so I can't bring another squad in . I'll have to fight it with just one squad then.

Was this on a specific sector? I've been able to postpone fights all the time and wait for backup.

I'm going to put the answer in spoiler tags since it is part of the story. Even so, I won't reveal details like the sector location or what's in the sector.

Spoiler:

This is definitely in this specific sector. The instant one squad enters that sector the SatView clock stops and until the combat is resolved the clock won't run. Also, you cannot retreat that squad. I'm sure this is quite intentional by the devs as what happens in the sector is part of the story. For those of you doing Ironman or Lonewolf, good luck

[Punisher]

Good enough. Wasn't sure if it was a bug or something else wrong.

[jztemple2]

A million in cash...



Another weird thing happened. After that fight I mentioned just above, the one with the sector I could only send one squad to, suddenly the enemy sent multiple squads towards my two mines, a fort I had captured and a couple of towns too. They captured one mine, which I got back, but the militia I had at the other mine was enough to stop them. I now have three squads that are dedicated to militia training.

[jztemple2]

Good tip... never stack four of your mercs around a car within range of a grenade throwing bad guy . I was lucky not to have anyone die, but this is going to clean out my meds for awhile.

[Blackhawk]

Good tip... never stack four of your mercs around a car within range of a grenade throwing bad guy . I was lucky not to have anyone die, but this is going to clean out my meds for awhile.

The Fallout Gambit.

[jztemple2]

This afternoon I was playing JA3 for the 12th day straight and I think I'm finally burned out on the game after 62 hours. I was starting yet another sector fight with a bunch of bad guys, which will be followed by yet another fight, etc. There have been some interesting missions and objectives, but I think I need a break. F1 Manager 2023 is coming out soon and that ought to be a nice break. Maybe I'll continue JA3 after another update... or if I'm not happy with F1 Manager 2023

[coopasonic]

And after 61 hours I'm about done with the game.

map state - could be considered a spoiler
https://steamcommunity.com/id/coopasoni ... 613056282/

[Carpet_pissr]

If you two "early finishers" (!) could give your personal score, from 1-100 or something, I would love to hear it. Or read it. Or decrypt it if you're into that.

Also, maybe most importantly...do you think it has legs like JA2 where you would go back and play it again and again? I'm going to guess not, because they changed the formula so much from the original, but just hoping I might be wrong on that.

Someone else upthread mentioned that they could see playing on the engine for years, but my hour or two in tells me otherwise. This is not really JA3 in at least that regard, FROM WHAT I CAN TELL SO FAR (huge disclaimer). Also, I suspect plenty of big changes to come down the pike, not to mention the mods, so we shall see.

I think ultimately, I was wanting, or hoping for what Xenonauts kind of is to the X-Com games (from what I hear, I think I only dipped a toe into that game, but I have heard great things, and WILL play it one day).

[Carpet_pissr]

Unrelated to the above, the Steam user score is now at 86%. That is seriously surprising to me, considering all the baggage and expectations of this series, and specific title. And somewhat small but vocal fanbase effect.

[jztemple2]

If you two "early finishers" (!) could give your personal score, from 1-100 or something, I would love to hear it. Or read it. Or decrypt it if you're into that.

I'm not one to assign a numerical score as I think it can be misleading. However, I can give some impressions that give more information as they also explain where I'm coming from.

1) I really enjoyed playing it. I'm stopping after 62 hours because of burnout, but I almost never finish long games like this so that's not a reflection of the game. I like to learn new things, whether it's from a book or a game. There is a lot of learning to do in JA3 to play it better and because the difficulty ramps up. I'm stopping now, not necessarily forever, because I don't feel like I'm learning new stuff at this point.

2) I didn't care if it was like or not like JA2. It's been long enough that I don't remember how JA2 played and anyway that's pretty immaterial to me. I tend to judge games on what I find in them, not what I expect to find in them. It did take a few hours of playing before I got really into enjoying the game, but I expect that. I'm always suspicious of Steam reviews if there is less than ten hours of gameplay recorded.

3) I played with the default difficulties and no mods. I don't think the game is too hard or too easy, because the game allows the player to adjust how they play. If it seems too hard it's might be because you're not adapting your gameplay to the game.

4) The tactical layer is very good. The maps are all very nicely built and give a real feeling of uniqueness to each sector. Combat might not be XCOM or Phoenix Point, but that doesn't matter to me. It does take a few hours to understand a lot of the nuances. And later in the game you'll have access to weapons that will allow you to adjust your tactics. But you'll also run into tougher enemies so you'll need to adjust your tactics. And after you control a sector, exploring that map for items like meds or loot adds a nice extra activity.

5) The operational layer is also very good. It might seem a bit simplistic, but again there are nuances in the geography, like that fact that to cross the rivers you need to be at a port or a bridge. Which means that if you cross the river to a side where you don't control a port, you'll need to fight to control one. And the map layout also dictates how the enemies sends their units and how they send them will drive you to adjust your movements. There are also things like time to consider. Saving meds by letting mercs heal without them is a reasonable alternative, but that's more time spent not doing anything else, and with each diamond mine petering out after a while, time is not on your side. And not to forget the importance of raising militia squads. It costs time and money, but a well placed group of militia squads might save you from having to go back to that mine to take it back from the enemy.

6) The variety of weapons, armor and other gear is fairly good. Some players are going to feel overwhelmed, but that's part of the game, learning what to keep, what to stash and what to scrap. For instance, I find the magazines to be a complete waste of good inventory space and always dump them, but some folks might like to keep them in inventory just in case. Upgrading weapons is cool, but again, how much stuff do you want to carry around?

7) The economy of the game is important and I think pretty well implemented. Mines are important as a regular source of income, but there are a lot of items around that can be worth cash if you look for them, or earn them during missions. And economy isn't just cash, it's also meds and scraps for upgrades. You'll be making a lot of decisions later on that need to take into account what money to have coming in and going out.

So, overall I give it two thumbs up . It's got a good beat and you can dance to it

[coopasonic]

For instance, I find the magazines to be a complete waste of good inventory space and always dump them, but some folks might like to keep them in inventory just in case.

You know magazines are consumables right? No need to dump them, have someone that could use the permanent stat point read them.

I'll give my final "review" after I finish the game. I *think* I am heading into the final fight and should finish that tonight.

[Carpet_pissr]

For instance, I find the magazines to be a complete waste of good inventory space and always dump them, but some folks might like to keep them in inventory just in case.

You know magazines are consumables right? No need to dump them, have someone that could use the permanent stat point read them.

I'll give my final "review" after I finish the game. I *think* I am heading into the final fight and should finish that tonight.

Glad you clarified…I was scratching my head at the idea of not keeping ammunition magazines!

[Unagi]

If you two "early finishers" (!) could give your personal score, from 1-100 or something, I would love to hear it. Or read it. Or decrypt it if you're into that.

I'm not one to assign a numerical score as I think it can be misleading. However,

Spoiler:

I can give some impressions that give more information as they also explain where I'm coming from.

1) I really enjoyed playing it. I'm stopping after 62 hours because of burnout, but I almost never finish long games like this so that's not a reflection of the game. I like to learn new things, whether it's from a book or a game. There is a lot of learning to do in JA3 to play it better and because the difficulty ramps up. I'm stopping now, not necessarily forever, because I don't feel like I'm learning new stuff at this point.

2) I didn't care if it was like or not like JA2. It's been long enough that I don't remember how JA2 played and anyway that's pretty immaterial to me. I tend to judge games on what I find in them, not what I expect to find in them. It did take a few hours of playing before I got really into enjoying the game, but I expect that. I'm always suspicious of Steam reviews if there is less than ten hours of gameplay recorded.

3) I played with the default difficulties and no mods. I don't think the game is too hard or too easy, because the game allows the player to adjust how they play. If it seems too hard it's might be because you're not adapting your gameplay to the game.

4) The tactical layer is very good. The maps are all very nicely built and give a real feeling of uniqueness to each sector. Combat might not be XCOM or Phoenix Point, but that doesn't matter to me. It does take a few hours to understand a lot of the nuances. And later in the game you'll have access to weapons that will allow you to adjust your tactics. But you'll also run into tougher enemies so you'll need to adjust your tactics. And after you control a sector, exploring that map for items like meds or loot adds a nice extra activity.

5) The operational layer is also very good. It might seem a bit simplistic, but again there are nuances in the geography, like that fact that to cross the rivers you need to be at a port or a bridge. Which means that if you cross the river to a side where you don't control a port, you'll need to fight to control one. And the map layout also dictates how the enemies sends their units and how they send them will drive you to adjust your movements. There are also things like time to consider. Saving meds by letting mercs heal without them is a reasonable alternative, but that's more time spent not doing anything else, and with each diamond mine petering out after a while, time is not on your side. And not to forget the importance of raising militia squads. It costs time and money, but a well placed group of militia squads might save you from having to go back to that mine to take it back from the enemy.

6) The variety of weapons, armor and other gear is fairly good. Some players are going to feel overwhelmed, but that's part of the game, learning what to keep, what to stash and what to scrap. For instance, I find the magazines to be a complete waste of good inventory space and always dump them, but some folks might like to keep them in inventory just in case. Upgrading weapons is cool, but again, how much stuff do you want to carry around?

7) The economy of the game is important and I think pretty well implemented. Mines are important as a regular source of income, but there are a lot of items around that can be worth cash if you look for them, or earn them during missions. And economy isn't just cash, it's also meds and scraps for upgrades. You'll be making a lot of decisions later on that need to take into account what money to have coming in and going out.

So, overall I give it two thumbs up . It's got a good beat and you can dance to it

So, like 85/100.

[coopasonic]

Again, I am not quite done, but I feel pretty confident in my thoughts and have a few minutes before my team gets in. On the replayability front, I definitely see myself playing this again, regardless of mods or updates, just because I want to try some different things and see how they play out. For the record, I rarely replay games and the exceptions were mainly Jagged Alliance 2 (not 1.13, I thought they made things too different and I wasn't interesting in re-learning) and XCOM 2, so finding replayability in this shouldn't be terribly shocking.

I like that money and ammo can be a problem early on. On the other hand, I think I should be able to straight up buy ammo. The ammo issue works itself out eventually if you don't equip every character with an AK47, at least. The money issue also works itself out of you can get through the early game.

Default difficulty is probably a bit too easy, but full disclosure, I did use the to hit % mod. It was the only mod I used or considered. I think on replay I might try again without it, but maybe not. Once you get a couple snipers geared up with modded rifles, the rest of the squad hardly matters, assuming you have Barry to handle crowds, assuming he's in shape to take charge.

Managing a couple squads to keep things under control can feel a little chaotic. I never took control of the second squad in combat. I would just use them for auto-combat and heal them up after. My main squad I think I've had 3 people go down, but was able to save them all. Sometimes I would try auto-combat with the main squad but they usually ended up with wounds and I don't like wounds, at least not when I wasn't in control.

Main downside for me is that eventually combat gets to be pretty repetitive. Yeah, sometimes there is less cover and more enemies with mortar/grenades/machine guns but you learn quickly to take them out first.

Anyways, lots of words, but I really enjoyed the game and I will likely go back to it again once I finish and take a break. 62 hours in 12 days in which I also put 21 hours in another game, while also working a full time job, should tell you about all you need to know!

[jztemple2]

For instance, I find the magazines to be a complete waste of good inventory space and always dump them, but some folks might like to keep them in inventory just in case.

You know magazines are consumables right? No need to dump them, have someone that could use the permanent stat point read them.

Hmm, I must have been misreading( ) their intent then, I thought they were only good for one round of combat. I'll have to go around and pick them up some time

Managing a couple squads to keep things under control can feel a little chaotic. I never took control of the second squad in combat. I would just use them for auto-combat and heal them up after. My main squad I think I've had 3 people go down, but was able to save them all. Sometimes I would try auto-combat with the main squad but they usually ended up with wounds and I don't like wounds, at least not when I wasn't in control.

I was regularly using two squads in combat as it helped me avoid losing anyone.

Fair warning to anyone who uses the auto-combat, be wary of using the checkbox that allows use of explosive ordnance. I found that the auto-combat tended to use more grenades, etc than I used if I fought the battle out myself.

[Max Peck]

On the other hand, I think I should be able to straight up buy ammo.

You can buy ammo, to a limited degree. At least a couple of settlements have merchants that set up shop once you liberate the sector, with each merchant selling one particular product. The main limitation is that if a given merchant sells ammo, they will only have one type available to purchase. I'm not sure whether that ammo type is fixed in stone or changes over time.

Hmm, I must have been misreading( ) their intent then, I thought they were only good for one round of combat.

A combat stim only lasts until the end of the next turn after you use it, so you may have conflated that with the magazines.

[coopasonic]

I'm pretty sure JA2 allowed to buy ammo online for delivery, that's the model I would have preferred. Searching the map for an ammo vendor is... not great.

[Max Peck]

Yeah, the lack of a proper arms dealer seems odd. It would be interesting to see an interview with the devs where they explain why they didn't carry that feature over from JA 2. It doesn't seem like a difficult thing to implement, so my best guess would be that it's a balance decision. Perhaps they feel that if you can just buy all the best gear instead of making the best of what you can scavenge, then the game becomes too easy once you get a positive cash flow going.

[jztemple2]

I found that ammo was something that had to be managed but I always seemed to have just enough. About the only real concern was having enough AP ammo, but I guess I could have crafted that if I really got too low. However, as Max Peck mentioned, there is a least one ammo dealer and by happy chance he sold the AP ammo in the caliber I needed. I think the lack of an online ammo store was a good choice by the devs as trying to make sure I had enough ammo was one more challenge that made the game more interesting.

I would be happy if there was a mod that allowed me to section my squad stash into at least two parts, one for stuff I need all the time and stuff I probably will never use but don't want/need to drop.

And now, dammit, I'm firing up the game again because we keep talking about it

[coopasonic]

62.9 hours and credits roll. A few side quests were left unfinished, but overall it was a pretty good outcome for me and for Grand Chien.

[jztemple2]

After 69.2 hours I reached the location of the Major and did away with him and... the credits aren't rolling? I still have more stuff to do?

I didn't capture the last of the diamond mines and the last of the forts, and a couple of more forts have been taken back by the Legion. And there are two primary objectives I now have to do and a bunch of secondary ones still out there. I'm a bit burned out again so I'm putting it on the shelf for now. I certainly have gotten my money's worth in any case.

[Max Peck]

I took a quick look at the burgeoning Steam Workshop and found at least mod that adds an arms dealer to the game.

Tony's Blackmarket

This is the "Tony's Blackmarket" Mod which adds "Tony" from "Jagged Alliance 2" into the game!

To use this mod you have to go to "H-9 Fleamarket" and talk to "Lallee LeeWayLender" in the south-west corner of the sector. There you can ask him to buy ammo from tony.

What it does: This mod adds a trader to the game that trades every weapon, ammo, explosives and skillmags etc. much like a "Blackmarket" for some extra cash.

Your help is needed! Give me some feedback on how the item prices affected your game or what you think i should adjust them to! In the future i will probably add a slider for the prices but we still need a default value.

This mod essentialy does the same that my other mod the "Bobby Ray's Fleamarket" Mod does in a way less harmfull way to the code and a more styleish way by giving "Tony" a ui image and in the future audio.

Future plans:
- French, Polsih and german translation on its way!
- add Voice lines from "Jagged alliance 2"
- make him unavailable randomely when hes out for a walk (like Ja2)
- Add more items
- make items sellable

[jztemple2]

There is now a demo for the game

[Blackhawk]

I took a quick look at the burgeoning Steam Workshop and found at least mod that adds an arms dealer to the game.

Tony's Blackmarket

Or, you can visit Bobby Ray's again.

[Blackhawk]

I found that ammo was something that had to be managed but I always seemed to have just enough.

Did you ever have enough for heavy automatic weapons to be viable?