I'm sure it's a great city driver (we're considering as a second car) but I'm talking about this quote:
"real-world use on long cross-country journeys."
Also, 31 MPH during rush hour on FKA LSD? That would be awesome.
Moderators: Bakhtosh, EvilHomer3k
I'm sure it's a great city driver (we're considering as a second car) but I'm talking about this quote:
Running__ | __2014: 1300.55 miles__ | __2015: 2036.13 miles__ | __2016: 1012.75 miles__ | __2017: 1105.82 miles__ | __2018: 1318.91 miles | __2019: 2000.00 miles |
Anywhere in Chicago before Midnight. It takes about four hours to get to Chicago from Detroit with stops. It takes over two hours to get from one side of Chicago to the other once you get there... On the express way.
Paingod wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:01 am Mach-E tries its hand at de-throning Telsa.
Maybe not all the way, but setting new records is a start.
As seen here.Paingod wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:01 am Mach-E tries its hand at de-throning Telsa.
Maybe not all the way, but setting new records is a start.
If I were retired and had the money to put myself up in hotel after hotel I think that would be an excellent way to experience the country (pre-2020)
Formix wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 5:07 am Anyone else interested in Aptera https://www.aptera.us/? I have to admit, I was 100% in ten years ago with their first vehicle, so when I saw they were coming back, I threw all caution to the wind and reserved one of the new ones. Who knows if they'll meet their delivery dates, but with any luck at all, I'll be driving my shuttlepod around town before this time next year.
I was under the impression all EVs we are aware of are in the same solar system.Drawing less than 100Wh per mile for everyday driving, Aptera can go five times farther than other electric vehicles with the same-sized solar system.
Another fun one in the micro-vehicle space is Arcimoto.
Can you imagine hitting Kansas or Nebraska and knowing you have to maintain around 25 mph? I'd want to shoot myself.
Running__ | __2014: 1300.55 miles__ | __2015: 2036.13 miles__ | __2016: 1012.75 miles__ | __2017: 1105.82 miles__ | __2018: 1318.91 miles | __2019: 2000.00 miles |
Small update! That car was a lease (BMW was practically giving them away for awhile), but when that ended late last year we picked up one of the new Mini SE electrics, and I really really love that little car. It's less practical than the i3, but it drives incredibly well and my wife loves it (she'll only drive MINIs). As with the i3, it's a city car, and here in Austin TX, the next city over is a minimum of 75 miles (San Antonio, with Houston being 160 away) so we're keeping a "road trip" car as well. It will probably take better charging infrastructure before we could go 100% electric (we have a sort of unique use case of Austin to Santa Fe and/or SoCal, and even Tesla stations in the west TX, southern NM area are sparse), but if we were, say east or west coast, I'm enough of a convert that I would do panels, a charging/battery wall, and go all in.Zaxxon wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:51 pm We've had electric vehicle discussions across a plethora of threads for several years now, but we've never had one overarching thread to contain random stuff about EVs in general. That ends... now!
Today's headlines that spurred me to start a general EV thread are:
[*]BMW's shocking-but-not-shocking dropped ball that is the eight years since the i3 came out. It's now dead, and that leaves BMW with zero BEVs on the market again despite geezer having informed us of the i3's neatness years ago. (I also had a chance to test-drive the i3 several years back. While I wound up going with the Leaf instead, the i3 was a cool car.)
kWh = energy (range, capacity)Kasey Chang wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:26 pm The Jag I-pace I drive for work requires a fast CCS charger that goes up to 60 KWh, if I read the specs right. It requires about 2 hours for full-charge. Though it can do 35% to about 90% in about 1 hour.
I think it's more appropriate to say that it can accept up to 60 kW. It'll still charge slower than that. By today's standards, that's pretty slow. The Taycan maxes out around 250. The Mach E is around 150. Charging profiles are important to understand when doing long road trips for determining how long to stay at each charger.Kasey Chang wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:26 pm The Jag I-pace I drive for work requires a fast CCS charger that goes up to 60 KWh, if I read the specs right. It requires about 2 hours for full-charge. Though it can do 35% to about 90% in about 1 hour.
Running__ | __2014: 1300.55 miles__ | __2015: 2036.13 miles__ | __2016: 1012.75 miles__ | __2017: 1105.82 miles__ | __2018: 1318.91 miles | __2019: 2000.00 miles |
Yeah, 60 kW is very slow for a DC station today (DCFC in the lingo). Older v3 Superchargers top out at 150 kW, new v3 stations deployed for the past 18 months or so are 250 kW and will eventually be 300 kW. Electrify America has some that are 350 kW. My old Leaf could do only 50 kW.stessier wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:36 pmI think it's more appropriate to say that it can accept up to 60 kW. It'll still charge slower than that. By today's standards, that's pretty slow. The Taycan maxes out around 250. The Mach E is around 150. Charging profiles are important to understand when doing long road trips for determining how long to stay at each charger.Kasey Chang wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:26 pm The Jag I-pace I drive for work requires a fast CCS charger that goes up to 60 KWh, if I read the specs right. It requires about 2 hours for full-charge. Though it can do 35% to about 90% in about 1 hour.
Edit: Ah, I see Zaxxon corrected the speed. Still slow-ish.
You can go to Plugshare.com and look for them. Choose the CCS plug only (or Tesla only - mixing is confusing) and then set the minimum kW to a desired value. You're around San Fran, right? Looks like Chula Vista, for example, has 200 kW plugs. Electrify America (EA) is only installing 350 kW ones these days. Note that it's possible (probable, even) that not all plugs at a site are the same power.Kasey Chang wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:39 pm The fastest charger I see around town for CCS tops out at 62.5 though. That's the ones company has access to, and that includes dedicated stations or EvGo and Chargepoint stations. I haven't seen 100 or 150 stations.
Running__ | __2014: 1300.55 miles__ | __2015: 2036.13 miles__ | __2016: 1012.75 miles__ | __2017: 1105.82 miles__ | __2018: 1318.91 miles | __2019: 2000.00 miles |
Yep, that's how the Taycan got the Cannonball record over the Tesla. It could charge at 250-ish from 0-50% before starting to taper. It was still pulling around 150 in the mid-60%. The Mach E holds 150 to around 40% before beginning to taper. But it hits a wall at 80% dropping to only 15-20 kW. It takes as longer to go from 80->100 than from 0-80%.Zaxxon wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:48 pmYeah, 60 kW is very slow for a DC station today (DCFC in the lingo). Older v3 Superchargers top out at 150 kW, new v3 stations deployed for the past 18 months or so are 250 kW and will eventually be 300 kW. Electrify America has some that are 350 kW. My old Leaf could do only 50 kW.stessier wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:36 pmI think it's more appropriate to say that it can accept up to 60 kW. It'll still charge slower than that. By today's standards, that's pretty slow. The Taycan maxes out around 250. The Mach E is around 150. Charging profiles are important to understand when doing long road trips for determining how long to stay at each charger.Kasey Chang wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:26 pm The Jag I-pace I drive for work requires a fast CCS charger that goes up to 60 KWh, if I read the specs right. It requires about 2 hours for full-charge. Though it can do 35% to about 90% in about 1 hour.
Edit: Ah, I see Zaxxon corrected the speed. Still slow-ish.
But it's all about the charge curve. For example, using Tesla since I actually know them well from first-hand use--an S or X will peak at 200 kW but will be down to around 100 kW by 60%, declining to ~50 kW by 80% and ~30 kW by 90%. A Model 3/Y will peak at 250 kW and decline less steeply.
When comparing EVs, the peak DC charging amount doesn't tell you much--you need to know what the taper curve looks like, as well as the size of the battery and efficiency (eg miles/kWh) in order to compare in an apples-to-apples fashion of 'for how long do I need to stop, and how many miles will I regain in that time?'
Running__ | __2014: 1300.55 miles__ | __2015: 2036.13 miles__ | __2016: 1012.75 miles__ | __2017: 1105.82 miles__ | __2018: 1318.91 miles | __2019: 2000.00 miles |
Regarding the 0-80 vs 80-100 comment, it's nice now that on most interstates it's no longer the case that you have to stop for every charger, as there were so few. Now there's generally a choice of 2-4, making it easier to drive until a relatively low state of charge and use the quicker portions of the curve.stessier wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:54 pm Yep, that's how the Taycan got the Cannonball record over the Tesla. It could charge at 250-ish from 0-50% before starting to taper. It was still pulling around 150 in the mid-60%. The Mach E holds 150 to around 40% before beginning to taper. But it hits a wall at 80% dropping to only 15-20 kW. It takes as longer to go from 80->100 than from 0-80%.
"Compliance cars" really mess up the charts. Also performance with EVs is a little different than with ICE cars. It's really easy to have insane acceleration but top speed isn't generally an area of focus esp with so many having only one "gear".
It's also difficult to compare just on specs. The various manufacturers are on various points on the spectrum from 'bolt EV components onto a combustion car' to 're-think every component.' One timely example--Munro & Associates have been doing teardowns of various BEVs for awhile now. Today's video compares the HVAC systems from the Mach-E and the Model Y.coopasonic wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:25 pm"Compliance cars" really mess up the charts. Also performance with EVs is a little different than with ICE cars. It's really easy to have insane acceleration but top speed isn't generally an area of focus esp with so many having only one "gear".
I don't doubt for one second the Ford and the traditional automakers all have a hurdle of useless maintenance complexity to overcome when comes to (B)EVs. They've long since locked themselves into this weight/space/cost (and safety) EC level that has made maintenance a perpetual headache since at least the early 80s, getting progressively worse, as we put in more and more stuff. The traditional OEMs are going to have relearn design philosophy, where weight does not start a cycle of complexity that has you doing things like removing a wheel well to get to the air conditioning charge port or having remove a manifold to get to the oil filter, etc...malchior wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:23 pm Wow. That teardown is really interesting. The Mach-E feels like a maintenance headache right now. I love the low key way they are essentially showing us that I can hang this system in one piece and over here are a million parts. I'd be curious to see an early Tesla vs current Tesla vs. the Mach-E. One of my thoughts is wondering if this reflects process/engineering maturity or just different design philosophies.
My expectation would be that the video would show the complete opposite (I mean other than the fact Zaxxon posted it). This is Tesla's 5th production vehicle and it has been what,13 years since they sold their first vehicle? I really thought the traditional auto makers would have a huge advantage in design maturity, but guess the differences are too significant. The fact that he says the Ford is the second best they looked at is concerning.
I am not Sandy Munro, but just based on my own experience--2017-2018 Model 3 had the 'superbottle' system. This got a lot of press at the time for how compact it was vs traditional approaches. Then Tesla moved to this new 'Octovalve' heat pump system with the Model Y in 2019 and brought it to the 3 in late 2020. This brought further weight reduction and a significant bump to cold-weather vehicle efficiency. Now the refreshed S/X have a similar system.
I really didn't post that as as Tesla shill (though I am, of course, a big fan). It is pretty representative of how these comparisons tend to go once people look deeper than the top-line specs, though.
Not quite.
For me it seemed like a pretty good illustration of the difference between "let's rethink cars in general and build an EV from the ground up" and "how do we turn our ICE car into a cool EV that mostly does what the Model Y does." I still really like the Mach E, but I'm getting won over back to the Model Y.
Running__ | __2014: 1300.55 miles__ | __2015: 2036.13 miles__ | __2016: 1012.75 miles__ | __2017: 1105.82 miles__ | __2018: 1318.91 miles | __2019: 2000.00 miles |
People still use brake pedals outside of emergency situations?wonderpug wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:11 pm My opinion is also surely being swayed by the fact that I'm currently visiting a relative that has a Model Y and that I got to play around with the car and autopilot features first hand. (It was so hard to ignore my instincts and not use the brake pedal as I approached a red light!) The parking lot summon also was a lot of fun.
I think that's a very narrow view. It's more about all that unnecessary weight and complexity as an indicator of the design philosophy. Ford's design philosophy appears to be "Well we have these parts and this will work. Build it!"