Octopus Overlords

Anonymous Bosch wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2024 8:50 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2024 7:22 pm

Anonymous Bosch wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2024 3:18 pm

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2024 3:06 pm The Daily Caller, bastion of unbiased and trustworthy reporting.

Lighten up, Francis; I merely linked the first source that showed up when searching for the story. Here's the same story as reported by newsweek.com and science.org if it makes any difference to you. But they each appear to report much the same thing. And realistically, there's nothing I can do to alter the fact that we live in a world of increasingly siloed and segrated news coverage.

Surely you know that Newsweek is no longer the trusted source that it used to be.

As I said, I am powerless to change the reality of our world's increasingly isolated and divided news reporting, and I certainly said nothing to imply that Newsweek was necessarily a "bastion of unbiased and trustworthy reporting," as Zaxxon would put it.

Holman wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2024 7:22 pm And your linked science.org article is merely a short presentation of the existence of the claim, not a defense of its merits.

Which was precisely the point I was making, i.e. simply that allegations have surfaced that the CIA's personnel assigned to pandemic investigation may've been bribed to alter their position about where the virus originated. I vaguely recalled the story, so I linked and quoted the first source that showed up when searching for it because there's only so much time I can afford to allocate to this (and the two others after Zaxxon bemoaned my quotation of the Daily Caller story).

So we agree that your cited sources are bullshit?

waitingtoconnect wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2024 8:35 pm

Anonymous Bosch wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 8:36 pm

waitingtoconnect wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 7:02 pm I think that Occums razor applies in this case.

SARS type viruses including Covid of varying degrees of lethality have come out of China multiple times.

Given this why wouldn’t the local lab be studying viruses like this. Logically you would.

Occam's razor applies to the natural-origin theory too though, which as Geraghty wryly observed back in 2022, requires belief in a series of coincidences that seem so unlikely it becomes effectively impossible:

Wuhan is a major hub for transport of goods and domestic and international travel.

Just like hiv didn’t arise where it was first detected likely this virus arose somewhere in rural China and a sick person came into the city and started spreading it.

This series of coincidences that is so implausible as to be impossible as you put it is how every viral and bacterial disease through history has risen, evolved and spread.

Based on this this is logically the most likely possibility. Given chinas lack of cooperation it’s unlikely the true source will be found.

The lab leak is a possibility - but far more likely is a natural development and spread just like every other diseases that afflicts us today.

Most large Chinese cities have laboratories that study coronaviruses, and virus outbreaks typically begin in rural areas, but are first noticed in large cities. If a coronavirus outbreak occurs in China, there is a high likelihood it will occur near a large city, and therefore near a laboratory studying coronaviruses.

Yet the proximity of the Wuhan Institute of Virology, which specializes in coronavirus research, to the outbreak's epicenter still raises valid questions about a possible lab leak. The SARS-CoV-2 virus showed a remarkable ability to infect humans from the outset, suggesting a level of preadaptation atypical for a newly emerged zoonotic virus, which usually requires time to mutate and adapt. Which potentially also points to a laboratory origin, where manipulation and study of viruses are routine. And while high-containment bio labs exist near urban centers worldwide, outbreaks tied directly to such facilities are not common, but the laboratories in Wuhan -- including the WIV -- also have a documented history of conducting risky coronavirus research and experiments.

Holman wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2024 9:54 pm

Anonymous Bosch wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2024 8:50 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2024 7:22 pm

Anonymous Bosch wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2024 3:18 pm

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2024 3:06 pm The Daily Caller, bastion of unbiased and trustworthy reporting.

Lighten up, Francis; I merely linked the first source that showed up when searching for the story. Here's the same story as reported by newsweek.com and science.org if it makes any difference to you. But they each appear to report much the same thing. And realistically, there's nothing I can do to alter the fact that we live in a world of increasingly siloed and segrated news coverage.

Surely you know that Newsweek is no longer the trusted source that it used to be.

As I said, I am powerless to change the reality of our world's increasingly isolated and divided news reporting, and I certainly said nothing to imply that Newsweek was necessarily a "bastion of unbiased and trustworthy reporting," as Zaxxon would put it.

Holman wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2024 7:22 pm And your linked science.org article is merely a short presentation of the existence of the claim, not a defense of its merits.

Which was precisely the point I was making, i.e. simply that allegations have surfaced that the CIA's personnel assigned to pandemic investigation may've been bribed to alter their position about where the virus originated. I vaguely recalled the story, so I linked and quoted the first source that showed up when searching for it because there's only so much time I can afford to allocate to this (and the two others after Zaxxon bemoaned my quotation of the Daily Caller story).

So we agree that your cited sources are bullshit?

No, we do not; Zaxxon did not link to anything specifically contradicting what I actually originally linked and quoted, i.e. that allegations had surfaced that the CIA's personnel assigned to pandemic investigation may've been bribed to alter their position about where the virus originated.

It’s possible but it’s less likely than natural causes.

Most scientists agree, based on the virus’s genetics, that it probably hopped from animals to humans. On April 30 2020 the U.S. Office of the Director of National Intelligence declared, on behalf of the 17 different organizations that make up the U.S. intelligence community, that “the Covid-19 virus was not manmade or genetically modified.” The organizations decided to continue investigating two alternatives: the more likely explanation that the virus jumped from an animal to a human, and the more remote possibility that it was a natural virus released in a lab accident, which still hasn’t been ruled out.

waitingtoconnect wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2024 10:16 pm It’s possible but it’s less likely than natural causes.

Most scientists agree, based on the virus’s genetics, that it probably hopped from animals to humans. On April 30 2020 the U.S. Office of the Director of National Intelligence declared, on behalf of the 17 different organizations that make up the U.S. intelligence community, that “the Covid-19 virus was not manmade or genetically modified.” The organizations decided to continue investigating two alternatives: the more likely explanation that the virus jumped from an animal to a human, and the more remote possibility that it was a natural virus released in a lab accident, which still hasn’t been ruled out.

I appreciate your perspective, and it's true that most scientists initially did, and many continue to, support the idea that SARS-CoV-2 jumped from animals to humans. However, the hypothesis of a lab leak has not been definitively ruled out and still warrants careful consideration. Especially when you see a new disclosure reveal how leading U.S. virus experts lobbied to conduct dangerous gain-of-function research at the substandard Wuhan Institute of Virology laboratory. It's also worth noting that scientific consensus can evolve as further investigation and evidence emerges.

If there was an actual bribe, rather than an alleged bribe, I would have expected the FBI to have proven that crime rather than the origins of the Coronavirus. It’s a pretty far-fetched allegation, when the whistleblower has an equal financial incentive. There’s a lot of Republican dark money financing extremist “proof.” Look at PillowGuy and Rudy.

Zarathud wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 9:27 am If there was an actual bribe, rather than an alleged bribe, I would have expected the FBI to have proven that crime rather than the origins of the Coronavirus. It’s a pretty far-fetched allegation, when the whistleblower has an equal financial incentive. There’s a lot of Republican dark money financing extremist “proof.” Look at PillowGuy and Rudy.

While scepticism towards the whistleblower's testimony regarding alleged incentives to alter positions on the COVID-19 lab leak theory is understandable, it's crucial not to dismiss such serious claims without proper investigation. The FBI's involvement would depend on jurisdiction and evidence, and the risks whistleblowers face often outweigh potential financial incentives, suggesting their claims are not made lightly. Moreover, political funding on any side should not detract from the integrity of the inquiry. Discrediting allegations without due scrutiny undermines accountability and democratic oversight, so it's essential to conduct a transparent and evidence-based investigation to uphold the credibility of our institutions. Meanwhile, the Heritage Foundation apparently filed a FOIA request "to compel production of CIA records relating to allegations that members of the CIA's COVID Discovery Team, a group of employees tasked with analyzing the origins of the COVID-19 pandemic, received monetary incentives to change their position on the origins of the virus," though unsurprisingly, the CIA is less than enthused about providing further clarity and transparency.

CIA, we accuse you of paying your staffs to change their position on the origin of the virus. Please provide us with evidence that prove that.

If you don't provide us with the evidence, that prove you're covering up.

And do t investigate our whistleblower!

You should not put don’t to evil what incompetence will explain.

Victoria Raverna wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 6:58 pm CIA, we accuse you of paying your staffs to change their position on the origin of the virus. Please provide us with evidence that prove that.

If you don't provide us with the evidence, that prove you're covering up.

Incorrect, the evidence was already presented by way of a senior-level CIA officer's whistleblower testimony, alleging that the CIA bribed six analysts involved in their pandemic investigation to alter their stance on COVID-19's origin. Working for a secretive alphabet agency, it's safe to say that officer put their career at risk by providing such evidence on the record. The relevant financial documents in the FOIA request will either reveal the whistleblower as the type of charlatan Zarathud suspects or corroborate the veracity of their allegations. Greater transparency promotes accountability and provides information for citizens about what their government is doing, which ought to make it worthwhile regardless of where you may stand on this issue.