Loop Hero

[Paingod]

I did finally see my own dark slime.

Spoiler:

The tile it spawned on was a Grove. Next to the Grove I had a second Grove to the north, a Blood Grove to the west, A Hungry Grove to the southwest, and a Road Beacon to the east. That one Grove tile was being impacted by three different effects. I doubt it matters, but each Hungry/Blood Grove had its own Meadows next to it. In subsequent loops, though, nothing unusual spawned there.

Another tile, Goblin Lookout

Spoiler:

Existing Goblin Fort that I dropped a Swamp in front of, also next to a Vampire's Mansion.

[coopasonic]

My luck getting Orbs of Expansion is ridiculously bad. So very bad. I've had everything else to get the necro for like 3 runs and I can't get a damn orb of expansion to drop. I guess I am going back to the vampire-village approach that I was trying to avoid because F vampires (and not in the pay respects kind of way).

[Butterknife]

My luck getting Orbs of Expansion is ridiculously bad. So very bad. I've had everything else to get the necro for like 3 runs and I can't get a damn orb of expansion to drop. I guess I am going back to the vampire-village approach that I was trying to avoid because F vampires (and not in the pay respects kind of way).

Hints for orbs of expansion:

Spoiler:

You have to fight large groups, and in my experience the necromancer is probably the worst at it, mainly because it takes him a while to ramp up in a fight. The warrior in my opinion is the best at it -- especially after you've unlocked on the gold cards (can't remember the name of it, but you'll know which one). Focus on retaliation damage and regen/vampirism and you're good to go, typically. To actually spawn groups the easiest way is Vampire+Spiders, but long-term I think the best way is any type of monster that turns in to another monster once you've killed the initial group. Also, make sure to raise the difficulty level and fight on higher difficulties to get any orbs you are farming, there's a HUGE bonus to fighting on a higher difficulty to how much drops, and there are some monsters, such as vampires, that spawn additional monsters which makes it easier to get to the 5+ that orbs of expansion require.

[Paingod]

The warrior... retaliation damage

I believe that comes with unlocking the helmet slot using the (Armory?) gold card.

The Necromancer's bane is large groups. When I die with that one, it's typically to 4 or 5 enemies. There's a level-up trait that helps (a little) in kicking you off each loop with 3 summons that don't get resummoned and don't heal - so you start fights with 3 or 4 summons immediately. They wear off (die) after a while, though, so any large groups you want to face with the Necro should be at the front of the loop.

It's interesting to me that time doesn't stop in fights. The longer the fights go on, the more days pass with each loop. The Beacon can help by keeping fights and travel fast - 40% movement speed, 20% attack speed. In later loops it's all too easy to be up against groups of 4 just because it took you so long to fight your way there.

[Paingod]

I finally realized last night that some resources are more prevalent with different creatures. Time to redesign the deck constantly to test what each critter drops.

Oh, and screw you Ruins. Screw you.

[Jaddison]

Beat the first boss with the Necro...was kind of easy. Didn't occur to me to go back to that loop at all until my Necro got its ass handed to it by the second boss yet again.

[Butterknife]

Just beat the third boss! I'm rocking it. The first attempt didn't go so well, spoiler below:

Spoiler:

So I tried the boss using the rogue, and he's got an ability where he always hits. So my maxed-out evasion did nothing! That fight didn't go so well. Was able to take him after a particularly good necromancer run, though.

[dbemont]

I really enjoy running a rogue with maximum evasion. But I think that spoiled me for the necromancer. I know people who claim it's the necro that is overpowered, but even with super high speed and additional skeletons, it feels flimsy.

[coopasonic]

I smashed the hell out of the second boss with the necro. I never tried a full evasion build with rogue but I imagine the second boss would take days... I am still going back and forth on this game. I love it and hate it depending on how the most recent run went.

[Paingod]

I really enjoy running a rogue with maximum evasion. But I think that spoiled me for the necromancer. I know people who claim it's the necro that is overpowered, but even with super high speed and additional skeletons, it feels flimsy.

The Necromancer is a late bloomer, but when it does, it does.

Spoiler:

% Summon Quality appears to be the chance to summon the Rogue or Warrior skeletons. At 76% you'll get one pretty often, and usually whichever you don't yet have. The Warrior skeleton is ponderous, but soaks damage and redirects attacks to it so you're left unmolested.

If you manage to exceed 4 Skeletons you get an archer off to the side assisting that can't be hit.

Necromancer level-up skills are pretty solid. +1 Summons, 20% chance of 2 summons, start each loop with 3 summons, summons heal when they kill something. All good.

With the right luck and a lot of Vampire Mansions, Groves, and Villages the Necromancer can level-up pretty quickly, and using the Road Light to limit spawn counts is essential. I've gotten my Necro to level 2 before the end of the 2nd loop a few times.

All that said, the Necro isn't a long-term fighter. It relies too much on luck. A Rogue with 75% Evade can skip merrily to Loop 15 and beyond. The Necro might be lucky to push 10.

[coopasonic]

The Necro might be lucky to push 10.

Pshh I took out the second boss on Loop 11 with the necro and could have kept looping long time. +60% attack speed and gaining health on every skelly death + some level of regen and evade. I was watching an endgame player play the necro and he couldn't die. 7 or 8 skellies up at 240% attack speed. I really need to get the river.

[coopasonic]

Those are really interesting stats, coop. I've got 24 hours, 38 expeditions, 272 loops. I haven't been idling the game at all. So (does some quick math) you take about 18 minutes on average to do an expedition, and I take 38 minutes to do one. That makes me WAY slower than you. I play on x2 speed, so that's pretty interesting to me. You also do 4.9 loops/expedition, and I'm doing 7.1, so I'm going around on average 30% more -- but I take twice as long to do it!

You and I must have pretty different gameplay styles. I'm hearing you though on the grind. I don't mind, though -- feels more like a goal to me at this point. "I need 3 orbs of whatever this round to build that upgrade I want" -- fast forward a couple of hours.

Oh quick note for everyone -- the game doesn't save during an expedition, so don't quit in the middle of a long one. Made that mistake once.

Time for a closer comparison. 40 expedition, 241 loops (makes the math much easier) so I'm up to 6 loops per run. I am not as successful as you were at that time. 16.0 hours played, so I am still much faster at it which may be why I am worse.

[Paingod]

7 or 8 skellies up at 240% attack speed. I really need to get the river.

Okay. Clearly I just need "more" of the game.

[dbemont]

Interesting. It sounds like I have a very different play style than you do.

I expect to get upwards of 15 loops in a run, routinely, even when I am aiming for resources rather than getting to a boss. I add enemies relatively slowly, generally maximize mountains and meadows and especially forests/thickets with rivers. And I only proceed at a pace where I can eliminate unwanted stuff like goblins with oblivion. I tend to mass enemies right next to the campfire where four towers can help out.

With a rogue, I can often become close to untouchable if I pile up evasion. And I guess I got spoiled, because with the necro, there are close calls and even early deaths. The skeleton levels and quality both help, sure, but unless you have both additional skeletons and the speed to get them out there, disaster seems to be just waiting to happen. And unlike the rogue, that's two essential, four very important things to pick up, so the luck of the draw is shakier.

Also, the outposts can be very handy with rogues, and do not take your stuff, while the outposts shoot necros as much as enemies.

So I am not sure if I simply do not have the knack yet with the necro, or whether I am expecting results that I should not be expecting.

[Paingod]

You're also talking late-game tactics. I don't have four towers, or rivers.

I prefer to use Villages to kill Goblin Huts. They don't spawn into a village.

[Paingod]

3rd Boss down. I do love the Necromancer.

Spoiler:

My deck consisted of:

• Ancient Tomb - +3 HP for everything killed with a Soul.
• Desert: Only put down the Dunes, -1% HP to All
• Forest: Only put down the Thicket, +2% Attack Speed.
• Bookery: Exchanged cards to get more Thickets and Dunes.
• Vampire Mansion: Predictable spawns, adds to every fight, has a Soul. I had maybe 8 or 9 of these down, covering half the map.
• Groves: I only put down maybe 6 of these, spaced 1 square apart (so the Rat Wolves spread out)
• Battlefield: Spawn a Chest each loop, not bad when it comes with a Slime and a Vampire.
• Road Light: To limit the spawns to 2 or 3 in any area.
• Treasury: Extra resources, spawn Gargoyles when empty.

Things I learned... A single tile that overlaps a Bookery, Vampire Mansion, and Corrupted Village spawns something new. A burned out Bookery adds something to fights by itself. When you're in it for the long haul, a Treasury is a waste unless you like Gargoyles. An "early and often" emphasis on Thickets (+2% Attack Speed) is ridiculous.

By the time I opted to take on the boss after Loop 10, I think I had been chewing on that single expedition for over an hour. Just about every square that didn't become a suped up Village had 2-3 enemies in it every time I passed by. It ticked by slowly.

My Necro's final stats to take down the boss were around:
220 Shield
950 Health
6 Summons
10 Summon Level
85% Summon Quality
+125% Attack Speed
15% Evasion
20% chance to Summon 2
Share damage with Summons
Storing 10% of supplies at each loop
+0.25 Summon Level per loop (taken on Loop 5)
Change all cards to Oblivion cards (to clean up stray tiles and lay down more Thickets before the last loop)
-36% health to everything (from Dunes)

[Paingod]

Shipwreck?

Spoiler:

Battlefield next to a River. Not a very fun fight, but a new one.

I'm on Expedition IV and it's

Plus side, the River card is awesome.

Spoiler:

Double the effect if cards next to it? Coupled with Thickets (Forest) it's all to easy to get to +140% or more attack speed. Monstrous.

Lesson learned: Never adjust your Attack Speed when you're 15 loops in and rely heavily on your 200% attack speed to survive. When you adjust it you're reset to zero for the fight. I'm guessing it's to avoid people abusing it somehow. Dropping from summoning skeletons like a fiend to scratching stick figures of them that popped half a second after being summoned is a horrible way to die.