The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:55 am Thank god we're not like Cuba, am I right?


I asked my friend in Cuba today if they're still wearing masks. "Of course we are," she said. "Covid still exists."

Cuba has one of the highest triple-vaccinated rates in the world, 99% over age 2 are vaccinated.

Average 1 death per day.

Still masking, even outdoors. By law.
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Spoiler:
This is how it works in a society that is not beholden to the fucking Koch brother(s) and dark billionaire fascist money. You mask until everyone is safe.

Everyone.

The US has fallen 100% to white supremacy and eugenecists, and no one cares. Incredible.
Well, yeah. They have 1 year prison sentences for non-compliance. Because they can enforce that kind of thing. Good luck with that here.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Isgrimnur »

Police states do seem to have better compliance rates.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

I'm not sure I'd label New Zealand or Japan as police states. Maybe it's an island thing?
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Isgrimnur wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:25 am Police states do seem to have better compliance rates.
Which is why some people say, "Thank God we're not Cuba."
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:29 am I'm not sure I'd label New Zealand or Japan as police states. Maybe it's an island thing?
Reuters
A person who intentionally fails to comply with a COVID-19 order, such as travelling without permission, will have committed a criminal offence and is now liable on conviction for a fine of up to NZ$12,000, up from NZ$4,000, or six months imprisonment. Fines for companies can go up to NZ$15,000.
($12K NZ is about $8K USD)

Nikkei
TOKYO -- Japan, in full reversal of its voluntary compliance approach, enacted bills on Wednesday to fine violators of social distancing rules, as the country sharply steps up its fight against the coronavirus pandemic.
...

Japan was once praised for keeping the number of infections low without having to impose strict rules. But the recent surge that started in early November has caused a rethink of the so-called "Japan model" of voluntary compliance, as the nation faces the task of convincing the rest of the world that it can safely host the Summer Olympics, which Prime Minister Yoshihide Suga is determined to proceed with. Here are five things to know about the law change.


I'm not going to argue that that don't have much better voluntary compliance but they still have to use force of law to get close to 100%.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by noxiousdog »

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:29 am I'm not sure I'd label New Zealand or Japan as police states. Maybe it's an island thing?
Yes, actually. It's way easier for those kind of measures (say like rabies and the UK) to work and be justified to the populace when you don't have 4,500 miles of open border.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:35 am I'm not going to argue that that don't have much better voluntary compliance but they still have to use force of law to get close to 100%.
We have the force of the law here in the U.S.; We lack the collective will and/or backing from law enforcement. Unless, of course, the conditions are just right...

Does everyone remember Kaci Hickox?
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:06 am
LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:35 am I'm not going to argue that that don't have much better voluntary compliance but they still have to use force of law to get close to 100%.
We have the force of the law here in the U.S.; We lack the collective will and/or backing from law enforcement. Unless, of course, the conditions are just right...

Does everyone remember Kaci Hickox?
If there is no law there is no force of law. In some minicipaties we fined establishments for violating mask mandates but I'm not aware of anywhere where we could fine or jail individuals for not distancing or wearing masks. We fined/jailed people for trespassing or resisting arrest when they wouldn't leave a business that required masks but that's it. Essentially we had a list of places you couldn't enter while unmasked and we shut down air travel for a bit.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

I should probably clarify.

Every single municipality in the United States had the ability to create, pass and then enforce masking guidelines either at a State level or all they way down to a local one. We didn't and instead decided to go with "hoping for people to do the right thing", which is a hell of a way to frame an infectious disease outbreak.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Max Peck »

noxiousdog wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:00 am
Smoove_B wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:29 am I'm not sure I'd label New Zealand or Japan as police states. Maybe it's an island thing?
Yes, actually. It's way easier for those kind of measures (say like rabies and the UK) to work and be justified to the populace when you don't have 4,500 miles of open border.
How so? What do land borders have to do with whether pandemic mandates exist or are legally enforced/enforcable?
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Zaxxon »

Ed Yong keepin' it real. (thread)

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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

I am beginning to sense that Ed Yong is...tired. :)

EDIT: I've really spent a lot of time thinking about how we arrived "here" (waves arms around) and I keep coming back to many of the things he's noted. Basically, what we're experiencing now was inevitable based on 100+ years of American culture. what's currently making it worse (the accelerate idea he's voiced) are things like politics, social media, influence that corporations hold over Congress, etc...)
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Jaymon »

The teenagers school sent a message, Starting next Monday, masks are optional. This matches with Oregon ending mandates statewide.
This is the school where she caught covid the first week of class this year, because even though they had masking in place, nobody wore them during lunch, in the crowded cafeteria.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Max Peck »

Ontario to drop most mask mandates on March 21, remaining pandemic rules to lift by end of April
Ontario will scrap most mask mandates — including in schools, restaurants, gyms and stores — across the province on March 21, with remaining COVID-19 regulations also set to drop by the end of April.

The province says improving health indicators, such as a stable COVID-19 test positivity rate and declining hospitalizations, as well as Ontario's high vaccination rate and the availability of antiviral treatments, allow for these steps.

The province's chief medical officer of health, Dr. Kieran Moore, announced the new changes Wednesday.

"We are now learning to live with and manage COVID-19 for the long term," Moore said. "This necessitates a shift to a more balanced response to the pandemic."

However, Moore said removing the mask mandate "does not mean the risk is gone" or the pandemic is over.

He noted masking requirements may need to be reinstated if there is another spike in COVID-19 cases, adding that vulnerable people should continue to take precautions despite the easing of restrictions.

"We should all be prepared that we may need to resume mask wearing," he said, adding that he hopes anyone who remains vulnerable will continue to wear a mask.
Dr. Peter Jüni, who heads Ontario's COVID-19 science advisory table, said "it's too early to tell" if removing mask mandates is the right move at this time.

Speaking to CBC Radio's Metro Morning before the announcement, Jüni was asked if the province's move was a scientific or political decision.

"It's not supported by science right now because it's just too early. We would need at least one to two weeks more data to say, 'okay we're stable' and we just make it to the next step," he said.

However, he said Ontarians have done well when it comes to masking and said he hopes many will continue to wear them — adding he will continue to do so himself.

​"There's a lot of solidarity going on," Jüni said. "For the majority of us, masks are not a big deal."
In other words, it's political and they're hoping that the no-mandate good vibes hold out at least until the provincial election in June.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by malchior »

Showing that there is no limits to the depth of dysfunction in this nation - Congress dropped funding for COVID relief entirely essentially defunding whatever was left of Biden's COVID response plan. So prematurely call the end to the pandemic and then cut the legs out of preparing for another wave, variant, or response after learning hard lessons from this pandemic. But they saved 1% of the entire cost of the package. Oh I mean they are spending about that much on new aid to Ukraine. Peak America in decline.

NY Times
Democratic leaders on Wednesday abruptly abandoned efforts to win approval of $15.6 billion in emergency pandemic response aid to fund the Biden administration’s new coronavirus strategy, announcing they would drop the package from a sprawling, $1.5 trillion spending bill amid disputes about how to cover the cost.

With Republicans refusing to devote any new money toward federal efforts to address the continuing toll of the crisis, top Democrats had agreed to take the funding from existing programs, including $7 billion set aside under last year’s $1.9 trillion coronavirus aid law to help state governments.

But as rank-and-file lawmakers began to comb through the package Wednesday morning, only hours before it was slated for a vote, some Democrats objected to that proposal, particularly the idea of clawing back assistance that states have been counting on.

Instead, Democrats opted to drop the emergency aid altogether, leaving the fate of President Biden’s new pandemic response plan uncertain. With funding for the entire federal government set to lapse on Friday without congressional action, Democrats had little time to try to negotiate an alternative.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by noxiousdog »

Max Peck wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:27 am
noxiousdog wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:00 am
Smoove_B wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:29 am I'm not sure I'd label New Zealand or Japan as police states. Maybe it's an island thing?
Yes, actually. It's way easier for those kind of measures (say like rabies and the UK) to work and be justified to the populace when you don't have 4,500 miles of open border.
How so? What do land borders have to do with whether pandemic mandates exist or are legally enforced/enforcable?
Pandemic mandates require the participation of the people. It's much easier to convince them when you can actually limit the spread, and have historic evidence it's true.

While the US is doing horrible by all measures, I bet you'll find the best countries at limiting COVID are all island nations (or have skeptical reporting practices).
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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I went to the Government website for free tests last week. It said They would have another shipment this Sat and we could order some then. But it let me go ahead and place an order for free and my email says it arrives here at my house today. So free tests in 1 week. You guys can get some now too I reckon.

Walgreens wanted $23 per test. No thanks. 3 for $0 is better.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

Not sure how much of a difference it's going to make at this point, but every little bit helps.


BREAKING: The Biden Administration will extend the transportation mask mandate by another 30 days, multiple industry sources tell CNN. It was set to expire March 18.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Thankfully, COVID will be gone by then.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

-Or- some of the modeling will be correct and we'll be seeing an uptick and cases, justifying keeping it in place even longer. Then again, as long as hospitals have capacity, nothing matters.

I feel like...people are just being told to collectively forget that kids under 5 still can't be vaccinated.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Smoove_B wrote: Thu Mar 10, 2022 2:48 pmI feel like...people are just being told to collectively forget that kids under 5 still can't be vaccinated.
Indeed. Also, we should get on that.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Masks are now optional for us in non-clinical areas. Which for me means my office suite. Rest of the building is technically clinical.


I had an Ortho appointment today (avulsion fracture, yay!) and all the patients in the waiting room were sniffling/sneezing. Like 8 of 10 or so Fortunately masks are still required.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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My Covid test kits did arrive today. There are two and each one has two tests in it.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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That makes 4 tests.

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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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BJ looks like a cute kid. That's not how I remember him at all. Did he end up Ozark or something.

I heard this guy ended up yelling at chairs.

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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Yeah, BJ was very cute. The image of him adjusting his little tweed hat is etched into my childhood memories.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Shocking what happens when massive appropriations bills are dumped every year and no one wants to actually do a proper budgeting process anymore.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Pro tip: If you're down to your last N95 and you know that you have many hours yet to spend in airports and on planes, don't have tuna for lunch.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Every age brings trials that later generations just won't understand.

My grandmother used to tell about how my grandfather would walk along the railroad tracks looking for coal that had fallen off of the trains. He'd bring it home to heat the house.

My grandparents had the Great Depression.

We have the mask belch.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Blackhawk wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 9:30 am Every age brings trials that later generations just won't understand.

My grandmother used to tell about how my grandfather would walk along the railroad tracks looking for coal that had fallen off of the trains. He'd bring it home to heat the house.

My grandparents had the Great Depression.

We have the mask belch.
The mask sneeze is even worse!
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Canada will likely be dropping Covid test requirements for international arrivals by the end of the month.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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pr0ner wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 2:00 pm Canada will likely be dropping Covid test requirements for international arrivals by the end of the month.
Federal government to end pre-arrival COVID testing for travellers entering Canada
The federal government is expected to announce as soon as tomorrow that travellers entering Canada will no longer have to take a pre-arrival COVID-19 test, CBC News has learned.

Sources with knowledge of the matter confirm Canada is removing the testing requirements at airports and land border crossings.

Currently, travellers entering the country must show proof of a negative antigen or molecular test within a day of their flight or arrival at the border.

That testing requirement will be dropped by the end of the month for fully vaccinated travellers, the sources said.

The move comes two years into the pandemic as travel picks up and provinces and territories ease restrictions involving vaccine passports, gatherings and masks.

The federal government will continue to randomly test travellers upon arrival in Canada to identify and track variants, the sources said. The government has been spending millions of dollars on randomly testing vaccinated travellers entering Canada.
Since they're specifying that the pre-arrival test requirement is being dropped for fully vaccinated travellers, I'd guess it will remain in place for unvaccinated travellers.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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It's official, Ivermectin does zilch for Covid19.

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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

Yeah, well, that's what they want you to believe. But all those people that purchased horse paste at feed stores can't be wrong!

In other news, no one could have seen this coming:
A Massachusetts middle school will be closed for cleaning Friday amid an outbreak of COVID-19 cases.

School officials in Concord said they've been watching the outbreak at Peabody Middle School in grade six. So far this week, they've seen 44 reported cases, and a significant number of absences, according to a letter to families from Superintendent Laurie Hunter.

In light of the rising numbers, district officials, in consultation with local public health officials and the Department of Elementary and Secondary Education, decided to cancel classes and close school Friday to allow sick students a chance to recover and to curb the further spread of the virus. They expect to reopen Monday.
"Closed for cleaning" is bs and I can't believe ~2 years later this is still being promoted. Here's a lower cost option that would keep kids in school - wear masks.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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My office building is still purporting to do "electrostatic" cleaning of the elevators when there's an in-building case.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Max Peck »

Ontario is dropping most of the provincially mandated mask requirements as of today. That alone is expected to cause an uptick in infections/hospitalization, but it is also timed to coincide with the expected uptick in infections/hospitalization driven by BA.2, because of course it is.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

This cross-pollinates with the other thread, but because it's specifically focused on the politics, I'm putting it here:


So @POTUS' polling firm has told @WhiteHouse that they need to declare "the crisis phase of COVID over" so it's not surprising we're seeing Administration officials downplay any threats of a new surge. 1/
Sorta buried in there is this important point from Dr. Ranney:
This to me is the most important point: our system cannot hold if hospitalizations continue to surge every 2-3 months

(It’s already crumbling)

Time will tell what BA2 does to the US. But we’re fools not to plan for the next wave. Shore up healthcare, tests, meds-& communication
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

For those keeping track, the last time Jen Psaki had COVID it was ~10/31/2021


Today, in preparation for travel to Europe, I took a PCR test this morning. That test came back positive, which means I will be adhering to CDC guidance and no longer be traveling on the President’s trip to Europe.
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