The Trump Impeachment Thread

[Defiant]

[El Guapo]

Are you ready for Lindsey Graham's review of the day's proceedings? He said many Republicans found it 'Offensive and absurd'. He is completely compromised. I don't know what they have on him but he is simply pathetic and loathsome.

I think what they have on Graham is his ambition, his desire to remain Senator, and having to answer periodically to South Carolina electorate and to the SC GOP primary electorate.

[malchior]

I think what they have on Graham is his ambition, his desire to remain Senator, and having to answer periodically to South Carolina electorate and to the SC GOP primary electorate.

I'd buy it but for the fact that he just won. He has 6 years ahead of him. Compare Lindsey Graham to 6 or 12 years ago. The man has drastically changed. Maybe he truly radicalized. It's a mystery but in the end the man is a disgrace.

[El Guapo]

I think what they have on Graham is his ambition, his desire to remain Senator, and having to answer periodically to South Carolina electorate and to the SC GOP primary electorate.

I'd buy it but for the fact that he just won. He has 6 years ahead of him.

Yeah, but...if he plans to remain Senator for the rest of his life, then 6 years from now is not irrelevant. And another carrot that they have to keep some of these senators in line is control over plum post-Senate lobbying / speaking type gigs.

Who knows. He probably also believes his own bullshit to some degree as well. And maybe there's actual blackmail type material around too, but given the lack of 'smoke' around that type of thing for Graham (unlike, say, Nunes or Rohrebacher and the like) I'm skeptical.

[stessier]

I think what they have on Graham is his ambition, his desire to remain Senator, and having to answer periodically to South Carolina electorate and to the SC GOP primary electorate.

I'd buy it but for the fact that he just won. He has 6 years ahead of him. Compare Lindsey Graham to 6 or 12 years ago. The man has drastically changed. Maybe he truly radicalized. It's a mystery but in the end the man is a disgrace.

I think "craven" fits perfectly here.

[El Guapo]

I think what they have on Graham is his ambition, his desire to remain Senator, and having to answer periodically to South Carolina electorate and to the SC GOP primary electorate.

I'd buy it but for the fact that he just won. He has 6 years ahead of him. Compare Lindsey Graham to 6 or 12 years ago. The man has drastically changed. Maybe he truly radicalized. It's a mystery but in the end the man is a disgrace.

I think "carven" fits perfectly here.

Yes, I would say that he's extremely carven. The carvenest of the carven people.

[YellowKing]

One of the PBS News Hour analysts said something that really struck me yesterday, and that was that convicting Trump, for many GOP Senators, would in a sense be convicting themselves. After all, even the ones not actively spreading "The Big Lie" of a stolen election were at least complicit in supporting it. We're asking 17 Republican Senators to admit to aiding and abetting a crime. To admit to their role in people getting killed and injured. Not going to happen.

[LordMortis]

I think "carven" fits perfectly here.

It's a word I only really learned to think of from Crusader Kings. It fits.

-5 Vassal Opinion -10 Personal Combat Skill -20% Morale Defense

[stessier]

I think what they have on Graham is his ambition, his desire to remain Senator, and having to answer periodically to South Carolina electorate and to the SC GOP primary electorate.

I'd buy it but for the fact that he just won. He has 6 years ahead of him. Compare Lindsey Graham to 6 or 12 years ago. The man has drastically changed. Maybe he truly radicalized. It's a mystery but in the end the man is a disgrace.

I think "craven" fits perfectly here.

Yes, I would say that he's extremely carven. The carvenest of the carven people.

You spelled it wrong.

[Jaymann]

We need Diogenes on steroids.

[Unagi]

Ugh. Jamie Raskin’s hair is leaking. Rudy style.

[El Guapo]

I think what they have on Graham is his ambition, his desire to remain Senator, and having to answer periodically to South Carolina electorate and to the SC GOP primary electorate.

I'd buy it but for the fact that he just won. He has 6 years ahead of him. Compare Lindsey Graham to 6 or 12 years ago. The man has drastically changed. Maybe he truly radicalized. It's a mystery but in the end the man is a disgrace.

I think "craven" fits perfectly here.

Yes, I would say that he's extremely carven. The carvenest of the carven people.

You spelled it wrong.

How carven of you.

[Archinerd]

I think what they have on Graham is his ambition, his desire to remain Senator, and having to answer periodically to South Carolina electorate and to the SC GOP primary electorate.

I'd buy it but for the fact that he just won. He has 6 years ahead of him. Compare Lindsey Graham to 6 or 12 years ago. The man has drastically changed. Maybe he truly radicalized. It's a mystery but in the end the man is a disgrace.

I think "craven" fits perfectly here.

Yes, I would say that he's extremely carven. The carvenest of the carven people.

You spelled it wrong.

How carven of you.

You say carven, I say covfefe.

[Jag]

One of the PBS News Hour analysts said something that really struck me yesterday, and that was that convicting Trump, for many GOP Senators, would in a sense be convicting themselves. After all, even the ones not actively spreading "The Big Lie" of a stolen election were at least complicit in supporting it. We're asking 17 Republican Senators to admit to aiding and abetting a crime. To admit to their role in people getting killed and injured. Not going to happen.

Or put another way, you are asking jurors to convict someone of the thing that they are also guilty of doing. It will never happen.

[El Guapo]

However, put yet another way you are asking politicians to disqualify a rival who might otherwise block you from becoming President.

[Paingod]

One of the PBS News Hour analysts said something that really struck me yesterday, and that was that convicting Trump, for many GOP Senators, would in a sense be convicting themselves. After all, even the ones not actively spreading "The Big Lie" of a stolen election were at least complicit in supporting it. We're asking 17 Republican Senators to admit to aiding and abetting a crime. To admit to their role in people getting killed and injured. Not going to happen.

Or put another way, you are asking jurors to convict someone of the thing that they are also guilty of doing. It will never happen.

If you look at some of the strongest opponents to gay rights and how they end up proverbially outed with the pool boy, being guilty of a thing doesn't specifically mean you'll go along with it as long as it suits your narrative.

GOP's a hot mess right now, and not in any kind of good way. More like a dumpster fire. Only thing I can predict is self preservation, even at the cost of integrity.

[Jaymann]

I just hope the Dems close with something like:

The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what you do here. This vote will be your legacy, and your children's legacy. and your children's children...

[Kurth]

I just hope the Dems close with something like:

The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what you do here. This vote will be your legacy, and your children's legacy. and your children's children...

I actually think the vote is beside the point given where we are. The impeachment case is for the history books so the world will note and long remember what Trump did, regardless of whether a spineless and broken GOP refuses to convict.

[LordMortis]

More like a dumpster fire.

In the holy shit that's right next to my house sort of way.

[malchior]

Cruz, Hawley Graham, and Lee met with the Trump defense team tonight to work strategy. Talk about preposterous.

Edit: I heard it as Hawley but it was Graham. Not a huge surprise in either direction.

[Holman]

Cruz, Hawley, and Lee met with the Trump defense team tonight to work strategy. Talk about preposterous.

Jurors.

[Smoove_B]

I heard you liked potentially committing impeachable offenses while serving as jurors for an impeachable offense.

[Remus West]

The impeachment case is for the history books so the world will note and long remember what Trump did, regardless of whether a spineless and broken GOP refuses to convict.

This is what they should close with. Slap them in the face with their own slime.

[Jaymann]

I'm going to stop watching the coverage until the verdict comes in. If there are any funny gaffes I'm sure they will be replayed. Otherwise I don't need the indigestion.

[Zaxxon]

One of the PBS News Hour analysts said something that really struck me yesterday, and that was that convicting Trump, for many GOP Senators, would in a sense be convicting themselves. After all, even the ones not actively spreading "The Big Lie" of a stolen election were at least complicit in supporting it. We're asking 17 Republican Senators to admit to aiding and abetting a crime. To admit to their role in people getting killed and injured. Not going to happen.

As if this began after the election. They're not only complicit in the aftermath, but also in the clearly telegraphed setup for months prior to the election, in the voter suppression that set the table for the mail return delays that set the stage for the setup, and of course in the four years prior during which it was abundantly clear that protecting a President actively working to harm the nation for personal gain was the party's primary purpose.

Layer upon layer of 'we're fucked.' Y'all been discussing how warm the water is when the frog was boiled and eaten long ago.

[malchior]

One of the PBS News Hour analysts said something that really struck me yesterday, and that was that convicting Trump, for many GOP Senators, would in a sense be convicting themselves. After all, even the ones not actively spreading "The Big Lie" of a stolen election were at least complicit in supporting it. We're asking 17 Republican Senators to admit to aiding and abetting a crime. To admit to their role in people getting killed and injured. Not going to happen.

As if this began after the election. They're not only complicit in the aftermath, but also in the clearly telegraphed setup for months prior to the election, in the voter suppression that set the table for the mail return delays that set the stage for the setup, and of course in the four years prior during which it was abundantly clear that protecting a President actively working to harm the nation for personal gain was the party's primary purpose.

If we're honest with ourselves that is when it broke loose. They spent the prior 8 years demonizing the black President which was why Trump was able to drive his circus into Washington in the first place.

Layer upon layer of 'we're fucked.' Y'all been discussing how warm the water is when the frog was boiled and eaten long ago.

Unfortunately true. Long, long ago. The 'very serious people' want us to believe this is a recent phenomena. It isn't and we've got to recalibrate who we listen to. The experts in authoritarianism all got ignored and sidelined. They were all right. The historians who said the Republican party was becoming radicalized were banished from public discourse. I'm looking at Ornstein and Mann here. They were right too. And that they are still sidelined is an solid indicator why 'we're fucked' is where the needle will be stuck.

[El Guapo]

One of the PBS News Hour analysts said something that really struck me yesterday, and that was that convicting Trump, for many GOP Senators, would in a sense be convicting themselves. After all, even the ones not actively spreading "The Big Lie" of a stolen election were at least complicit in supporting it. We're asking 17 Republican Senators to admit to aiding and abetting a crime. To admit to their role in people getting killed and injured. Not going to happen.

As if this began after the election. They're not only complicit in the aftermath, but also in the clearly telegraphed setup for months prior to the election, in the voter suppression that set the table for the mail return delays that set the stage for the setup, and of course in the four years prior during which it was abundantly clear that protecting a President actively working to harm the nation for personal gain was the party's primary purpose.

Layer upon layer of 'we're fucked.' Y'all been discussing how warm the water is when the frog was boiled and eaten long ago.

At the core the big problem is that the Republican elite and the Republican base are both at least skeptical of democracy, just for different reasons. The Republican elite is skeptical of democracy because, in true Ayn Rand fashion, they want economic policies which favor the elite, and they worry about the masses voting for wealth transfers from them to the masses. The Republican base is skeptical of democracy because they share a general view that America should be primarily a white Christian country, and full democracy undermines that by giving representation to non-white and non-Christian voters.

They're coming at it from different views, but there's a lot of overlap in terms of supporting anti-democratic restrictions. Ideally the Republican elite (the McConnells of the world) want to do softer restrictions like voter ID, restricting polling locations, gerrymandering, etc., which curtail the electorate but which don't block elections or the like. But that's hard to calibrate precisely those types of democratic restrictions, especially when there's a vocal Republican base constituency that wouldn't mind ending democracy to be able to take measures to more directly entrench white Christian supremacy.

The other thing is that while the Republican elite doesn't *want* to end democracy per se, that's far from the worst outcome for what they want, as long as the person who ends it is a right wing person who supports elite economic policies. Like if Trump had succeeded, the Republican elite would've made a few muted protests and then thrown itself fully behind Emperor Trump.

[Jeff V]

If they let Trump off the hook, they out to double-down on all of the deplorables involved in the insurrection, whether they did so directly or indirectly. Send the lot of them to Gitmo and let the "base" know their leaders failed to do their jobs and protect them, so now they will rot in prison. Under no circumstance should they be released before the next presidential election cycle (and I'm sure in the coming years many more will volunteer to join them). I'd be fine with just forgetting about them for eternity.

[Carpet_pissr]

At the core the big problem is that the Republican elite and the Republican base are both at least skeptical of democracy, just for different reasons. The Republican elite is skeptical of democracy because, in true Ayn Rand fashion, they want economic policies which favor the elite, and they worry about the masses voting for wealth transfers from them to the masses. The Republican base is skeptical of democracy because they share a general view that America should be primarily a white Christian country, and full democracy undermines that by giving representation to non-white and non-Christian voters.

They're coming at it from different views, but there's a lot of overlap in terms of supporting anti-democratic restrictions. Ideally the Republican elite (the McConnells of the world) want to do softer restrictions like voter ID, restricting polling locations, gerrymandering, etc., which curtail the electorate but which don't block elections or the like. But that's hard to calibrate precisely those types of democratic restrictions, especially when there's a vocal Republican base constituency that wouldn't mind ending democracy to be able to take measures to more directly entrench white Christian supremacy.

The other thing is that while the Republican elite doesn't *want* to end democracy per se, that's far from the worst outcome for what they want, as long as the person who ends it is a right wing person who supports elite economic policies. Like if Trump had succeeded, the Republican elite would've made a few muted protests and then thrown itself fully behind Emperor Trump.

Beautifully summarized! It also clearly explains the seeming paradox of "who are Trump supporters?"
"They're middle/lower class, rural, under-educated blue collar 'new country' music listeners!!"
"They're elite upper class, suburban, over-educated white-collar professionals!"

Yep!

What STILL shocks me, though, is that the former group has followed so blindly, so loyally, someone who is obviously in the latter group, who DESPISES them for being exactly what they are. They don't care. It's a winning (or was) ticket. That's literally all that mattered at one point. The vehicle was distasteful, but the delicious taste of (FINALLY!) liberal tears overpowered the sourness.

[Isgrimnur]

Jurist

Thousands of US law students and of members of the Missouri, Texas and DC bars have signed a petition for the disbarment of Senators Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz for their objections to Congressional certification of the Electoral College’s votes.

As of Wednesday, there were more than 11,000 signatures on the petition from lawyers and law students. Nearly 3,000 of these were members of the Missouri, Texas, and DC bars. Hawley is a member of the State Bar of Missouri and Cruz is a member of the State Bar of Texas. Both are members of the DC Bar as well.

The petition argues that Hawley and Cruz “attacked the foundations of our democracy” by “leading the efforts to undermine the peaceful transition of power after a free and fair election.” The petition points to the dozens of courts that stated the claims of vast voter fraud during the November 2020 election were unfounded. Furthermore, the Electoral College ratified the victory of President-Elect Joe Biden on December 14, but Hawley and Cruz announced that they would object to the formal certification on January 6. The petition links these actions to the attacks on the US Capitol:

[Carpet_pissr]

Jurist

Thousands of US law students and of members of the Missouri, Texas and DC bars have signed a petition for the disbarment of Senators Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz for their objections to Congressional certification of the Electoral College’s votes.

As of Wednesday, there were more than 11,000 signatures on the petition from lawyers and law students. Nearly 3,000 of these were members of the Missouri, Texas, and DC bars. Hawley is a member of the State Bar of Missouri and Cruz is a member of the State Bar of Texas. Both are members of the DC Bar as well.

The petition argues that Hawley and Cruz “attacked the foundations of our democracy” by “leading the efforts to undermine the peaceful transition of power after a free and fair election.” The petition points to the dozens of courts that stated the claims of vast voter fraud during the November 2020 election were unfounded. Furthermore, the Electoral College ratified the victory of President-Elect Joe Biden on December 14, but Hawley and Cruz announced that they would object to the formal certification on January 6. The petition links these actions to the attacks on the US Capitol:

LOTS of petitions like this recently. Personally I think we are past these gestures making ANY difference whatsoever (except maybe to make the signers feel good about doing SOMEthing to try and revive the boiled frog, to continue our little analogy).

This will be run in "liberal" media as "unprecedented! - just look how BAD things are!!" and in non-liberal media (and by the targets of said petition) as "thousands of LIBERAL US law students...." and that will be it.
"Ohhh, it's "the other side" (notice how frequently that phrase is used in the last year?)" Completely disregard as partisan bias.

We are way past petitions, people.

[LawBeefaroni]

Jurist

Thousands of US law students and of members of the Missouri, Texas and DC bars have signed a petition for the disbarment of Senators Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz for their objections to Congressional certification of the Electoral College’s votes.

As of Wednesday, there were more than 11,000 signatures on the petition from lawyers and law students. Nearly 3,000 of these were members of the Missouri, Texas, and DC bars. Hawley is a member of the State Bar of Missouri and Cruz is a member of the State Bar of Texas. Both are members of the DC Bar as well.

The petition argues that Hawley and Cruz “attacked the foundations of our democracy” by “leading the efforts to undermine the peaceful transition of power after a free and fair election.” The petition points to the dozens of courts that stated the claims of vast voter fraud during the November 2020 election were unfounded. Furthermore, the Electoral College ratified the victory of President-Elect Joe Biden on December 14, but Hawley and Cruz announced that they would object to the formal certification on January 6. The petition links these actions to the attacks on the US Capitol:

LOTS of petitions like this recently. Personally I think we are past these gestures making ANY difference whatsoever (except maybe to make the signers feel good about doing SOMEthing to try and revive the boiled frog, to continue our little analogy).

This will be run in "liberal" media as "unprecedented! - just look how BAD things are!!" and in non-liberal media (and by the targets of said petition) as "thousands of LIBERAL US law students...." and that will be it.
"Ohhh, it's "the other side" (notice how frequently that phrase is used in the last year?)" Completely disregard as partisan bias.

We are way past petitions, people.

IANAFL so I don't know how disbarment works but I would imagine if enough members of a bar call for it, they would some weight.

[Paingod]

What STILL shocks me, though, is that the former group has followed so blindly, so loyally, someone who is obviously in the latter group, who DESPISES them for being exactly what they are.

This well describes someone in an abusive relationship. Can we get them to therapy?

[malchior]

What STILL shocks me, though, is that the former group has followed so blindly, so loyally, someone who is obviously in the latter group, who DESPISES them for being exactly what they are. They don't care. It's a winning (or was) ticket. That's literally all that mattered at one point. The vehicle was distasteful, but the delicious taste of (FINALLY!) liberal tears overpowered the sourness.

I wouldn't say they followed blindly. They hate the man. They think he is a boor and a disgrace but he keeps them in the gravy. He was the vehicle for justices who'd be willing to micromanage the COVID-19 response to prioritize economics over health experts opinions. He got them their tax cuts. They are despicable in a totally different way.

[Carpet_pissr]

What STILL shocks me, though, is that the former group has followed so blindly, so loyally, someone who is obviously in the latter group, who DESPISES them for being exactly what they are. They don't care. It's a winning (or was) ticket. That's literally all that mattered at one point. The vehicle was distasteful, but the delicious taste of (FINALLY!) liberal tears overpowered the sourness.

I wouldn't say they followed blindly. They hate the man. They think he is a boor and a disgrace but he keeps them in the gravy. He was the vehicle for justices who'd be willing to micromanage the COVID-19 response to prioritize economics over health experts opinions. He got them their tax cuts. They are despicable in a totally different way.

I disagree, but it's more complicated (as we have seen). I think a LOT of his base ADORE him. LOVE him. One or two crazy videos of people saying as much, I don't put much stock in. But there are absolutely tons of videos showing people indirectly being filmed, showing how much they think he is the Messiah come to save them. Love is not the right word. WORSHIP.

[Carpet_pissr]

What STILL shocks me, though, is that the former group has followed so blindly, so loyally, someone who is obviously in the latter group, who DESPISES them for being exactly what they are.

This well describes someone in an abusive relationship. Can we get them to therapy?

I will answer that question with another question: Do you think people that flatly refuse to get a CoVid vaccine will go to therapy?

[malchior]

What STILL shocks me, though, is that the former group has followed so blindly, so loyally, someone who is obviously in the latter group, who DESPISES them for being exactly what they are. They don't care. It's a winning (or was) ticket. That's literally all that mattered at one point. The vehicle was distasteful, but the delicious taste of (FINALLY!) liberal tears overpowered the sourness.

I wouldn't say they followed blindly. They hate the man. They think he is a boor and a disgrace but he keeps them in the gravy. He was the vehicle for justices who'd be willing to micromanage the COVID-19 response to prioritize economics over health experts opinions. He got them their tax cuts. They are despicable in a totally different way.

I disagree, but it's more complicated (as we have seen). I think a LOT of his base ADORE him. LOVE him. One or two crazy videos of people saying as much, I don't put much stock in. But there are absolutely tons of videos showing people indirectly being filmed, showing how much they think he is the Messiah come to save them. Love is not the right word. WORSHIP.

Oh I was talking about the 'elites' exclusively. Most of the elites hate him by many accounts but he gets them the spoils. They just were willing to hold their noses as long as they could feed at the low-tax trough.

[Carpet_pissr]

What STILL shocks me, though, is that the former group has followed so blindly, so loyally, someone who is obviously in the latter group, who DESPISES them for being exactly what they are. They don't care. It's a winning (or was) ticket. That's literally all that mattered at one point. The vehicle was distasteful, but the delicious taste of (FINALLY!) liberal tears overpowered the sourness.

I wouldn't say they followed blindly. They hate the man. They think he is a boor and a disgrace but he keeps them in the gravy. He was the vehicle for justices who'd be willing to micromanage the COVID-19 response to prioritize economics over health experts opinions. He got them their tax cuts. They are despicable in a totally different way.

I disagree, but it's more complicated (as we have seen). I think a LOT of his base ADORE him. LOVE him. One or two crazy videos of people saying as much, I don't put much stock in. But there are absolutely tons of videos showing people indirectly being filmed, showing how much they think he is the Messiah come to save them. Love is not the right word. WORSHIP.

Oh I was talking about the 'elites' exclusively. Most of the elites hate him by many accounts but he gets them the spoils. They just were willing to hold their noses as long as they could feed at the low-tax trough.

Yeah, that sounds right. The most vocal supporters are not from Group 2 (elite upper class, suburban, over-educated white-collar professionals). They just wanted the status quo to continue, OR to get better, as quietly as possible. "Don't look the poor in the eyes!!!"

That group likely hates him also because not only did he upset the very lucrative, mundane and inconspicuous applecart, he doused it with gasoline, shot fireworks at it, then blew the ashes from said applecart in the faces of all who didn't support him. Then he replaced that loser cart with a gilded, triple decker automated version, with massive gold TRUMP letters on both sides. UPGRADE!

[malchior]

In other news, the opening of today's defense is predictably bad. These guys are not 'top men'. It included to quote that Trump was not guilty of 'Incitement to Resurrection'. I expect many memes.

[Octavious]

I understand that the top people don't want anything to do with him, but how does it go this low!?