Octopus Overlords

Jeff V wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:28 pm

gbasden wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:12 pm

Jeff V wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:27 pm I've had recruiters tell me that for tech resumes, what you know is more important than most of the contrived bullshit normally contained in resumes. Mine is pretty simple...I haven't updated it in years, last time though I believe it ran 4 pages covering all significant tech jobs I've had and what I did at those jobs. I have over the years dropped the more distant jobs that were almost entirely involved with now-obsolete technologies.

I haven't dropped any jobs, but the more distant ones are down to a single line. I think it's still important to show that I've been working in the field for x years, right?

Yeah, but as those years close in on triple digits...

In my 20''s during the height of Reaganomics Double Digit Unemployment (tm), I was compelled to take a job working for a department store restaurant. Eventually I rose to manager and delivered the first profit they had in over 20 years (the restaurant, not the store). I last invoked that job when interviewing for my first IT management job. The 2 years I spent doing payroll tax accounting for Follett after the 6 years at the restaurant is just irrelevant. I did "computerize" a lot of manual records at the time, but in this day and age, it's hardly worth a mention as manual spreadsheets and manual ledger accounting is largely extinct.

I think my resume goes back about 20 years, including a few one-liners. I think it does, however, still include my first true IT job with a small company that at the time was co-owned by the father of a former classmate. This job came about as a result from a conversation had at my 10 year high school reunion, I was working for Follett at the time. Come to think of it, that was probably 25 years ago. Anyone remember Arcnet? That's what I did at that job.

By the time I stopped updating my resume, it covered 30+ years and two distinct careers. I summed up the first 10 years with one line: "Successful bookselling career with three employers in five locations, in all roles ranging from receiving clerk to manager to buyer." At some point you have to realize that nobody cares about the details of what you did 20 years ago -- and if they do, they'll ask. In fact, it becomes counterproductive to emphasize how old you are.

However, condensing a long and complex job history is not Drazzil's challenge.

Tonight I said to Wife "You know one awesome thing about being old? You don't need a resume anymore."

That's interesting. When I first started looking for a job I had things like being a paper boy, janitor, digging ditches, installing alarms. By my last resume I even stopped mentioning being in the service unless they had some kind of vet promotion. (none did)

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:09 pm “My objective is to leverage my education and experience to tackle new challenges. I want to help my next employer be the best that they can be, and learn from them how best to do that.”

Holy f--k I'm using that!

Jeff V wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:28 pm

gbasden wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:12 pm

Jeff V wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:27 pm I've had recruiters tell me that for tech resumes, what you know is more important than most of the contrived bullshit normally contained in resumes. Mine is pretty simple...I haven't updated it in years, last time though I believe it ran 4 pages covering all significant tech jobs I've had and what I did at those jobs. I have over the years dropped the more distant jobs that were almost entirely involved with now-obsolete technologies.

I haven't dropped any jobs, but the more distant ones are down to a single line. I think it's still important to show that I've been working in the field for x years, right?

Yeah, but as those years close in on triple digits...

In my 20''s during the height of Reaganomics Double Digit Unemployment (tm), I was compelled to take a job working for a department store restaurant. Eventually I rose to manager and delivered the first profit they had in over 20 years (the restaurant, not the store). I last invoked that job when interviewing for my first IT management job. The 2 years I spent doing payroll tax accounting for Follett after the 6 years at the restaurant is just irrelevant. I did "computerize" a lot of manual records at the time, but in this day and age, it's hardly worth a mention as manual spreadsheets and manual ledger accounting is largely extinct.

I think my resume goes back about 20 years, including a few one-liners. I think it does, however, still include my first true IT job with a small company that at the time was co-owned by the father of a former classmate. This job came about as a result from a conversation had at my 10 year high school reunion, I was working for Follett at the time. Come to think of it, that was probably 25 years ago. Anyone remember Arcnet? That's what I did at that job.

Admittedly, I'm only including IT gigs in mine. I am including stuff all the way back to desktop support, but it is all in IT. That's still ... 30 years ish.

My presentation was cancelled due to *POTENTIAL* snow.

Your "objective" is the type of job, experience, and team you are looking for. for example

I am looking for a position where I can design training curriculum while still having the opportunity to interact with and advise students on a daily basis.

I want to utilize my tech skills at a company that is making a positive changes in the world so that my work is helping make the world a better place.

I am looking for a position where I regularly interact with people and have the opportunity to work with long term clients. I thrive on being the "face" of a product and enjoy building and maintaining relationships.



.
.

Put that up there as your objective, that way employers know what you are looking for (besides money so you don't starve)
Drazzil, if you PM me with your skills and such, and what kind of job you are searching, I'll write a couple of example sentences for you. if you like.

I still maintain that a skills summary is 1000% times more useful than an objective. I've literally never listed an objective on my resume since exiting my teenage years and I have a fantastic track record of being hired.

Jaymon wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:24 pm Your "objective" is the type of job, experience, and team you are looking for. for example

I am looking for a position where I can design training curriculum while still having the opportunity to interact with and advise students on a daily basis.

I want to utilize my tech skills at a company that is making a positive changes in the world so that my work is helping make the world a better place.

I am looking for a position where I regularly interact with people and have the opportunity to work with long term clients. I thrive on being the "face" of a product and enjoy building and maintaining relationships.



.
.

Put that up there as your objective, that way employers know what you are looking for (besides money so you don't starve)
Drazzil, if you PM me with your skills and such, and what kind of job you are searching, I'll write a couple of example sentences for you. if you like.

Ok!

MHS wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:16 pm I still maintain that a skills summary is 1000% times more useful than an objective.

Yep. Objective is pure filler.

McNutt wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:14 pm

MHS wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:16 pm I still maintain that a skills summary is 1000% times more useful than an objective.

Yep. Objective is pure filler.

Completely agree.

Yes, it is pure filler. Its not useful for catching the resume scraping algorithms, but it is useful for humanizing it.
A hiring manager might be looking at a stack of dozens of resumes all with perfectly equal qualifications, so how should they be narrowed down to the half dozen that should be called for an interview? The inclusion of objectives that shows this persons goals are in line with how the company operates.

Its no guarantee of anything. But if written correctly its not harmful and potentially useful, and if it makes the difference between trash can and interview, then its supremely useful. unfortunately its just like that old advertising quote. "I know half my advertising is wasted, I just don't know which half"

Jaymon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:55 am Yes, it is pure filler. Its not useful for catching the resume scraping algorithms, but it is useful for humanizing it.
A hiring manager might be looking at a stack of dozens of resumes all with perfectly equal qualifications, so how should they be narrowed down to the half dozen that should be called for an interview? The inclusion of objectives that shows this persons goals are in line with how the company operates.

Its no guarantee of anything. But if written correctly its not harmful and potentially useful, and if it makes the difference between trash can and interview, then its supremely useful. unfortunately its just like that old advertising quote. "I know half my advertising is wasted, I just don't know which half"

I believe that objectives can also be useful when one's work history doesn't form a career path. If the applicant has caromed from one thing to the next with no obvious thread connecting them, the interviewer might wonder where he's trying to go -- especially in a cattle-call situation like a job fair. (But as I've said, it's at least 15 years since I looked for a job and considerably longer than that since I was a hiring manager, so maybe I'm not the best resource.)

Jaymon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:55 am Yes, it is pure filler. Its not useful for catching the resume scraping algorithms, but it is useful for humanizing it.
A hiring manager might be looking at a stack of dozens of resumes all with perfectly equal qualifications, so how should they be narrowed down to the half dozen that should be called for an interview? The inclusion of objectives that shows this persons goals are in line with how the company operates.

Its no guarantee of anything. But if written correctly its not harmful and potentially useful, and if it makes the difference between trash can and interview, then its supremely useful. unfortunately its just like that old advertising quote. "I know half my advertising is wasted, I just don't know which half"

If it's something truly interesting, maybe. If it's the standard "I want to use my education and skills to make the company a better place!" kind of boilerplate, meh. At least from my perspective when I had to go through stacks and stacks and stacks of resumes.

Kraken wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:02 pm

Jaymon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:55 am Yes, it is pure filler. Its not useful for catching the resume scraping algorithms, but it is useful for humanizing it.
A hiring manager might be looking at a stack of dozens of resumes all with perfectly equal qualifications, so how should they be narrowed down to the half dozen that should be called for an interview? The inclusion of objectives that shows this persons goals are in line with how the company operates.

Its no guarantee of anything. But if written correctly its not harmful and potentially useful, and if it makes the difference between trash can and interview, then its supremely useful. unfortunately its just like that old advertising quote. "I know half my advertising is wasted, I just don't know which half"

I believe that objectives can also be useful when one's work history doesn't form a career path. If the applicant has caromed from one thing to the next with no obvious thread connecting them, the interviewer might wonder where he's trying to go -- especially in a cattle-call situation like a job fair. (But as I've said, it's at least 15 years since I looked for a job and considerably longer than that since I was a hiring manager, so maybe I'm not the best resource.)

Don't be silly Ken. You have been extremely helpful to me. Your resume rewrites took a shit awful non resume and turned it into something that I'm not ashamed to present to an employer. Yeah I tweaked some of the tenses after you were done but my new resume is 80% you.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

I could have sworn I said this before, but the resune I post publically does NOT have an objective. I was asked to include an objective for a seperate live skills presentation.

As somebody who has been disabled for nearly 20 years, and who looks at culture almost as an outsider, I find this fascinating. The person writing the resume is just finding a way to tell them what they want to hear (which is, therefore, meaningless), while the person reading it knows that they're being told what they want to hear, and that it's meaningless.

And yet, unless both sides play along with the traditional lie, nobody will trust the other enough to hire them.

Humans mystify me.

Communicating has meaning. If you make it generic and useless, you missed and opportunity and fail. I believe in skills and interests.

Being a tax attorney who deals with estates, I interview to hear “I think taxes and dead people who have money leave interesting problems I want to help fix.” There are thousands of law graduates looking for work. I don’t want the desperate. I want the fit as those gems will work through the bullshit and excel because it’s interesting, not work.

EVERYTHING in your resume is sales. A person who treats themselves as a widget is screwed. A person who tells a compelling story or shows good judgment is more likely to get hired.

Even if you’re applying to McDonalds, you want to be the resume saying “I want to sell burgers because I like to be busy and work with people. Food interests me.”

Drazzil wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:10 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:02 pm

Jaymon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:55 am Yes, it is pure filler. Its not useful for catching the resume scraping algorithms, but it is useful for humanizing it.
A hiring manager might be looking at a stack of dozens of resumes all with perfectly equal qualifications, so how should they be narrowed down to the half dozen that should be called for an interview? The inclusion of objectives that shows this persons goals are in line with how the company operates.

Its no guarantee of anything. But if written correctly its not harmful and potentially useful, and if it makes the difference between trash can and interview, then its supremely useful. unfortunately its just like that old advertising quote. "I know half my advertising is wasted, I just don't know which half"

I believe that objectives can also be useful when one's work history doesn't form a career path. If the applicant has caromed from one thing to the next with no obvious thread connecting them, the interviewer might wonder where he's trying to go -- especially in a cattle-call situation like a job fair. (But as I've said, it's at least 15 years since I looked for a job and considerably longer than that since I was a hiring manager, so maybe I'm not the best resource.)

Don't be silly Ken. You have been extremely helpful to me. Your resume rewrites took a shit awful non resume and turned it into something that I'm not ashamed to present to an employer. Yeah I tweaked some of the tenses after you were done but my new resume is 80% you.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

I'm good at editing, less good at giving job advice. My advice is to listen to the advice you're getting from others here.

Still busy. Still sober. Still looking for work. DoR (finally!) approved me for services. Also, I got tired of waiting for help so I've been applying for work for a bit. Also, SE worksource on foster also does a similar thing but you have to be able to take a five hour workkeys test. I took the test. Did okay. Silver on math, gold on graphic literacy and platinum on reading comprehension. This test was no pushover. Graduate level problems towards the end of all three.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:53 pm As somebody who has been disabled for nearly 20 years, and who looks at culture almost as an outsider, I find this fascinating. The person writing the resume is just finding a way to tell them what they want to hear (which is, therefore, meaningless), while the person reading it knows that they're being told what they want to hear, and that it's meaningless.

And yet, unless both sides play along with the traditional lie, nobody will trust the other enough to hire them.

Humans mystify me.

Effort matters.

Drazzil wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:33 pm Still busy. Still sober. Still looking for work. DoR (finally!) approved me for services. Also, I got tired of waiting for help so I've been applying for work for a bit. Also, SE worksource on foster also does a similar thing but you have to be able to take a five hour workkeys test. I took the test. Did okay. Silver on math, gold on graphic literacy and platinum on reading comprehension. This test was no pushover. Graduate level problems towards the end of all three.

What test is this? Do you have a link?

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:53 pm As somebody who has been disabled for nearly 20 years, and who looks at culture almost as an outsider, I find this fascinating. The person writing the resume is just finding a way to tell them what they want to hear (which is, therefore, meaningless), while the person reading it knows that they're being told what they want to hear, and that it's meaningless.

And yet, unless both sides play along with the traditional lie, nobody will trust the other enough to hire them.

Humans mystify me.

I both agree and disagree, actually. When you boil it down, a good resume should tell me in the first 10-15 seconds whether you have the relevant experience and skills for the job I need filled and whether it's worth my time to dig deeper. If it looks to be a provisional match, then I want to get a feel for whether you are going to be a good fit on my team, whether you have a history of being self directed or need to be supervised, and where your soft skills are at. If you are spoon feeding me pablum from line one, it doesn't fill me with great feelings about your intellect or wit, nor does it make me feel like you respect mine either.

OTOH, I get not wanting to be so much of an oddball that you get immediately discarded. Thus, I think discarding the "mission statement" is a much better idea in general. Giving me a few bullet points of your top 3 skills tailored to my job is way more important to me as a hiring person than knowing that you have a deep burning desire to use your marketing degree to change the world.

So as I reported before; I relapsed at six and a half months sobriety. I went out for a month. Been clean (No MJ Pens) for a month and a half.

I've lined up support of the business team at the SE Worksource on Foster. Got support of Voc Rehab (officially a client now) and took a 12 hour seminar for Microsoft Word and excel. 95% on intermediate for both certificates. Attending an AA meeting every day, obtained a sponsor. And attending a seminar every week.

I'm also going to quit smoking pipe and the (weekly) cigar.

I'm going to use the freed up cash to buy a computer I think. I'm going to try to buy a $150 dollar desktop through comcasts internet essentials program and see if I can just pay more for a better mobo and more memory and a bigger drive and some sort of video card... The specs say it xan run office and win 10 already so I'll just need to kick things up a notch.

Or just break down and BUY a cheap one off Amazon. I quit the bad habit of eating out months ago, so I am seeing returns on that.

PS It may take me sixty or even 90 days to pee clean but I'm hoping I am hoping to turn the corner any day now.

Speaking of: I think I've figured something out. When discussing Drazzil stuff in other threads, to avoid derailing I'm going to SPOILER the Drazzil stuff in the future.

Or you know, maybe you could show some discipline and stick to the topic at hand in those threads and leave your manic shit posts here where they belong?

Z-Corn wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:46 pm Or you know, maybe you could show some discipline and stick to the topic at hand in those threads and leave your manic shit posts here where they belong?

Half the stuff I post is political, which belongs in the political forum. So... No.

Z-Corn wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:46 pm Or you know, maybe you could show some discipline and stick to the topic at hand in those threads and leave your manic shit posts here where they belong?

Shit. You're right.

Portland is STARVING for caregivers. I was actually at a live skills resume roundtable recently where one of the participants darn near begged me to take a part time (38 hours a week to avoid paying for healthcare) I paused to consider a moment... Then in the gentlest possible manner told her that 12 years of taking care of mom was enough for me. She persisted even so, so I just very politely asked her
"Given my experience, Would you be willing to pay me $15 an hour and guarantee a full time schedule?"

She got quiet and I said "We'll talk later"

As far as professional driving I was in a very minor accident where I hit an uninsured motorist more then a year ago and didn't hear from my insurance agent, and the other party didn't opt to get paid till more then 3-4 months later, so I have a year and a half yet till I can drive a truck, but it would be an option in a year or so, I'm a good driver and no accidents or tickets for 7 years before that.

But I was thinking; I could post on Craigslist for "Conseriege caretaker services" ; post an ad on Craigslist for $20 an hour and get bonded and insured as a business. Then if I have more clients then caregivers, I could contract out; let the caregivers keep 80% of what they make and just reinvest most of what I make.

Have you been screened for manic episodes?

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:06 am Have you been screened for manic episodes?

PM incoming.. And yes.

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:06 am Have you been screened for manic episodes?

About 45 posts in 24 hours, some of them being copy and pasted in multiple threads, PLUS who knows how many PM's. That's all the screening I need.

Z-Corn wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:00 am

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:06 am Have you been screened for manic episodes?

About 45 posts in 24 hours, some of them being copy and pasted in multiple threads, PLUS who knows how many PM's. That's all the screening I need.

Just one PM to you apologizing. And one to IG. I dont really *do* PM's unless asked. I view it as a violation of privacy unless asked. But... Gosh you know you guys aren't wrong. Woke up last night and my brain felt like it was on fire. Something is different lately. I think I should see someone this morning if I can. Something isint right. I'll tie you guys into what is said.