The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:33 am

Man.... Denny Heck's (D-Washington) time with Maguire was pretty damn good. IMO

Hope eventually it's available to share. I'm sure it will be re-played.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:34 am

Ratcliffe is a complete hack too. He tried to pull a fast one. He starts by saying this relies on the whistleblower being second hand. He then says the whistleblower got things wrong...then simply lists all the second hand references in the complaint. He did not actually say anything that actually contradicts the whistleblower account.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:37 am

Plus, he listed (in theory) tons of people that would back up the story... So, while it was hearsay - it was a LOT of it, and it wasn't clear - but it sounds like perhaps it was investigated and backed-up... so...

Scraper · Post by **Scraper** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:40 am

Nunes and Jim Jordan both disgust me. They are the basically mini McConnells who's allegiance is to the Republican party and not the country.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:42 am

Here's a poll that suggests that some of the public may be moving toward support for impeachment. That seems to be consistent with what we're seeing with some public figures that were skeptical about impeachment (moderate Democrats in the House, Comey, Nate SIlver).

(I've shifted from being on the fence and would be fine either way, to being for it thanks to this week's news)

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:52 am

While I'd like to hope having impeachment hearing would add to the storm clouds during election season, I don't think I want to see it brought to a conclusion before then. If it does, Pence takes command and likely pardons the criminal. I want to see justice prevail (although there is no guarantee a Dem president won't also pardon, but I bet it becomes a campaign issue...)

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:58 am

Defiant wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:42 am Here's a poll that suggests that some of the public may be moving toward support for impeachment.

If only the elected officials used poll data to drive decision making instead of just doing whatever keeps them in power.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:59 am

I think the interesting finds for today have been mined. One that Maguire went to the WH and DOJ first even though the heads of both were directly implicated. It sounds like it was inexperience and the unprecedented nature of the incident that lead to him making a fairly poor decision. You almost cant blame him.

That said, they need to really sit down and figure out how to get to the bottom of all the points in the complaint. Another interesting discussion is happening right now on Twitter around the whistleblowers background. Some are asserting it is well written so it might be the work of a lawyer or someone with a legal background.

Others on the right naturally are saying this is a member or members of the IC going rogue and attempting to set policy. I expect members of Congress in the GOP to start going down this road at some point.

Scraper · Post by **Scraper** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:03 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:59 am I think the interesting finds for today have been mined. One that Maguire went to the WH and DOJ first even though the heads of both were directly implicated. It sounds like it was inexperience and the unprecedented nature of the incident that lead to him making a fairly poor decision. You almost cant blame him.

That said, they need to really sit down and figure out how to get to the bottom of all the points in the complaint. Another interesting discussion is happening right now on Twitter around the whistleblowers background. Some are asserting it is well written so it might be the work of a lawyer or someone with a legal background.

Others on the right naturally are saying this is a member or members of the IC going rogue and attempting to set policy. I expect members of Congress in the GOP to start going down this road at some point.

Reading the complaint I absolutely think it was written by a lawyer. It is written in a fashion that is very similar to a legal brief or dispositive motion.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:06 pm

Well, we all know the whistleblower is speaking through lawyers - so there is a good chance it was indeed written (or cleaned up) by a lawyer, regardless of the whistleblower's occupation.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:07 pm

Ill say I've always been impressed by Schiff. He is so much more effective than Nadler. I am curious how a Lewandowski type witness would fare with him. I suspect we will get one soon enough.

GungHo · Post by **GungHo** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:15 pm

Jeff V wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:52 am While I'd like to hope having impeachment hearing would add to the storm clouds during election season, I don't think I want to see it brought to a conclusion before then. If it does, Pence takes command and likely pardons the criminal. I want to see justice prevail (although there is no guarantee a Dem president won't also pardon, but I bet it becomes a campaign issue...)

Agreed. I've worried a lot about this. But the more think about it, the more I've come to think trump will just take pence down with him. Not sure he is smart enough to know that's his best play if he is removed from office, but I know damn well he isn't disciplined enough.
In which case Pelosi is now prez and I don't think there's anything to worry about RE: trump pardons.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:23 pm

Can somebody please quote the tweets. I can't read them.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:32 pm

If this "innocuous" phone call with Ukraine was moved to a classified server I wonder about the content of other phone calls to certain world leaders... or just one world leader who happens to live near Ukraine.

From a NYT article:

White House officials had told the whistle-blower that this was “not the first time” that a presidential transcript had been placed into the secret system “solely for the purpose of protecting politically sensitive — rather than national security sensitive — information.”

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:40 pm

Remember the Putin meeting where Trump collected and presumably destroyed the translator's notes?

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:55 pm

I thought Schiff's closing was pretty effective. He just ran down the entire list of whistleblower complaints and asked Maguire if they were worthy of investigation.

If Maguire answered "Yes" he'd damn the President, and if he said "No" he'd damn himself. But of course Maguire did what Schiff expected him to do, which was hem and haw and skirt around the question. Which was fine because all Schiff really wanted to do was get those complaints on record, on live television, in front of a national audience.

Total win-win-win situation.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:09 pm

What sucks is that this administration, far more than any that has existed, will do its utmost best to destroy the whistleblower, both professionally AND personally, if his identity becomes public. You thought Kavanaugh was put through the ringer (well really, he wasn't as he ended up on the supreme court), the whistleblower will be lucky to find a job in city council after Trump and his cronies get done with him.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:11 pm

So Trump just kinda implied that leakers should be executed.

“I want to know who’s the person, who’s the person who gave the whistle-blower the information? Because that’s close to a spy,” he continued. “You know what we used to do in the old days when we were smart? Right? The spies and treason, we used to handle it a little differently than we do now.”

Trump spoke at a private event at the Intercontinental Hotel in New York City where the president thanked the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, Kelly Craft, and her staff as he wound up four days of meetings around the U.N. General Assembly.

A person attending the event provided the Los Angeles Times with a recording of the president’s remarks.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:15 pm

Amidst all this it turns out the NYT is incredibly lazy about their informal polling about impeachment.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:20 pm

If she voted for Obama and then voted for Trump, isn't that, by definition, a swing voter?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:24 pm

Defiant wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:20 pm If she voted for Obama and then voted for Trump, isn't that, by definition, a swing voter?

Maybe but going to the same people over and over is pretty lazy. I guess seeing the evolution might be interesting but for that to have any value they need to then put it in that context.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:25 pm

Agreed that it should be put in context.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:25 pm

“I want to know who’s the person, who’s the person who gave the whistle-blower the information? Because that’s close to a spy,” he continued. “You know what we used to do in the old days when we were smart? Right?

Remove Nixon from office?

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:30 pm

Oh, and Mr. Best-at-Constitutioning also wants to make impeachment illegal.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:33 pm

Implications about executing officials or the whistleblower? Hang head.

This whole thing needs an algorithm.

Here is the pseudo code:

Capture Trump interview audio

Translate to text

Extract sentiments + key phrases

Auto append to articles of impeachment

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:34 pm

Keep the pressure on; start escalating the intensity. Do not let momentum slip. The time is now.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:37 pm

I agree. This is the best chance to hold him accountable. Under the gun Trump is melting down again and is digging in deeper.

Word is that the transcript and complaint came out because of the pressure that GOP backers put on the WH. There is a glimmer of light. They have to try.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:39 pm

Looks like Christmas is here early:

Corey Lewandowski, the political operative who helped elect President Trump, has had conversations with White House officials in recent days about potentially taking a position inside the administration to help Trump confront a looming impeachment fight.

Was Rudy busy?

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:42 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:34 pm Keep the pressure on; start escalating the intensity. Do not let momentum slip. The time is now.

Do so, but carefully. All it takes is one honeypot for his entire support network to say "See!!! All fake! Exonerated! Witch Hunt!" And there are people a lot smarter than POtuS in his corner acting on his behalf and protecting him for whatever reason.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:09 pm

The Republicans may be too stupid to turn on Trump, but Putin surely isn't. Especially with all this talk of military aid to Ukraine.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:12 pm

Jaymann wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:09 pm The Republicans may be too stupid to turn on Trump, but Putin surely isn't. Especially with all this talk of military aid to Ukraine.

Putin's real goal is destabilizing the US democracy. He's got to be tickled pink by all of this.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:16 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:12 pm Putin's real goal is destabilizing the US democracy. He's got to be tickled pink by all of this.

That's my take. Trump is a pawn to Putin and his group. Willing or unwilling? History will tell. Everything to me suggests willing but again it's all suffocating smoke with Trump using dry leaves to try and quash the embers.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:14 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:12 pm
Jaymann wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:09 pm The Republicans may be too stupid to turn on Trump, but Putin surely isn't. Especially with all this talk of military aid to Ukraine.
Putin's real goal is destabilizing the US democracy. He's got to be tickled pink manly color by all of this.

FTFY

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:07 pm

This is movie villain stuff.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:10 pm

Yeah, he's gotta go. He's made abundantly clear that he's not fit to hold any position of significant power, and that was before recent events. It's absolutely appalling that more than a fringe number of Americans continue to support this jackass.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:35 pm

I think there are now three polls that have shown some (small but significant) shift towards support for impeachment (including among Republicans and independents)

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:36 pm

The NY Times severely narrows the search down on the whistle blower. Incredibly irresponsible if you ask me. The same paper literally reported earlier in the day that the President himself made allusions to executing the whistle blower (but just a joke right? right...).

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:40 pm

Rudy helps clarify things:

Rudy just admitted his work is not as an attorney. Therefore, the comms are not privileged.

Only the best people.

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:42 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:36 pm The NY Times severely narrows the search down on the whistle blower. Incredibly irresponsible if you ask me. The same paper literally reported earlier in the day that the President himself made allusions to executing the whistle blower (but just a joke right? right...).

It is irresponsible, but.... if the NYT can do it, surely folks in the White House can do it.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:45 pm

noxiousdog wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:42 pm
malchior wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:36 pm The NY Times severely narrows the search down on the whistle blower. Incredibly irresponsible if you ask me. The same paper literally reported earlier in the day that the President himself made allusions to executing the whistle blower (but just a joke right? right...).
It is irresponsible, but.... if the NYT can do it, surely folks in the White House can do it.

Plus the whistleblower has already indicated he wants to testify, right?

(And if you want to get nit picky about it, I think Trump made allusions to executing the person who leaked information to the whistleblower.)