The American Apocalypse

[msduncan]

Also: it's probably been reported here already but the Trump team has eliminated the language about banning Muslim immigration from their page. His pivot and moderation has already begun.

[gilraen]

Joe Scarborough this morning was talking about how Trump will want a "big" legacy - a-la Teddy Roosevelt; he will not go along with Republicans' ideas about "small spending", "small government", small anything. Trump has presumably already spoken with Nancy Pelosi about a possible infrastructure spending bill. So yes, some of his plans are likely to be large moderate compromises. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to understand simple math: if you cut taxes the way he planned AND spend all that money, you drive record debts, cause the country's credit rating to be downgraded, and hurt the economy.

Of course, on the other hand, his pet Republicans might just show their teeth and bring his "magnanimous" plans to a screeching halt.

[Smoove_B]

Also: it's probably been reported here already but the Trump team has eliminated the language about banning Muslim immigration from their page. His pivot and moderation has already begun.

Lord help us if he follows through on his promise to keep guns out of the hands of people on terror watch list.

[SuperHiro]

Back in college, I played a lot of pickup basketball. During games, there was always this one guy. Who'd play dirty as shit. Elbow in the gut, purposeful tripping, and the worst offense... ticky-tack foul calls. Imagine Charles Barkley and Draymond Green hate-fucked each other and somehow had a shit-baby. That's the kind of player he was. He was the same way when we played football too, would just tackle with what could only be described as "unrestrained ferocity". On the hard frozen ground no less.

And after every game he would play that "good game, hard fought" schtick like we just went 7 games in the Stanley Cup or some shit. I fucking hated that asshole, I heard he married some domineering harpy and is deeply unhappy.

[Blackhawk]

I've been engaging people that I know who were on the other side. I know how they feel. I felt the same in 2008 and 2012, however they have an added angst of being scared. I don't recall being scared and so I know it must be worse for them.

That's the Trump in the mix. His platform was extremely aggressive and exclusionary. He didn't just attack the laws, he attacked the people. Had Pence been elected (a politician with whom we simply had a strong difference of philosophies) it would be closer.

[Unagi]

The really fantastic thing about this Christmas season is knowing that the SCOTUS is safe for years to come. It was the biggest item on my wish list this season.

Hopefully we can get another appointment or two to make sure of it.

Where does a woman's right to have an abortion fit in your world view?
Do you have any daughters?
Care about any LGBT stuff?

Or do you just need to be sure toddlers are free to use firearms?
Just curious.

[Exodor]

Also: it's probably been reported here already but the Trump team has eliminated the language about banning Muslim immigration from their page. His pivot and moderation has already begun.

Maybe. He's got ~25% of the country expecting him to follow through on his ridiculous promises to build a wall, export 11 million people and ban 25% of the world from travelling to the US. I'm not sure he'll be able to back away from the core of his campaign so easily.


My facebook feed is starting to fill with people wanting electors to ignore the outcome and "vote with the will of the people." What a bunch of undemocratic bullshit. I hate that Trump won and lament just how few votes it would have taken to get a better outcome but elections have consequences and he won. Instead of trying to undermine the basis of our democracy (which these same people feared Trump would do if he lost) they need to get to work making sure Trump can't undo years of progress.

[Defiant]

Instead of trying to undermine the basis of our democracy (which these same people feared Trump would do if he lost) they need to get to work making sure Trump can't undo years of progress.

Indeed. Leave the undermining the basis of our democracy to Trump.

[Archinerd]

My facebook feed is starting to fill with people wanting electors to ignore the outcome and "vote with the will of the people." What a bunch of undemocratic bullshit. I hate that Trump won and lament just how few votes it would have taken to get a better outcome but elections have consequences and he won. Instead of trying to undermine the basis of our democracy (which these same people feared Trump would do if he lost) they need to get to work making sure Trump can't undo years of progress.

Agreed, The only way is forward. Better buckle up though, it's going to be a bumpy ride. Maybe we can convince the buffoon in the the driver seat to avoid the deepest pot holes or avoid driving into the sea.

[hepcat]

I just hope he doesn't declare war on Narnia after reading Barron his bedtime story one night.

[Defiant]

I just don't want him declaring war on Narnia after reading Barron his bedtime story one night.

Well, someone hasn't watched Samantha Bee.

[hepcat]

If I can't grope 'em, I don't watch 'em.

[Dogstar]

My facebook feed is starting to fill with people wanting electors to ignore the outcome and "vote with the will of the people." What a bunch of undemocratic bullshit. I hate that Trump won and lament just how few votes it would have taken to get a better outcome but elections have consequences and he won. Instead of trying to undermine the basis of our democracy (which these same people feared Trump would do if he lost) they need to get to work making sure Trump can't undo years of progress.

Agreed, The only way is forward. Better buckle up though, it's going to be a bumpy ride. Maybe we can convince the buffoon in the the driver seat to avoid the deepest pot holes or avoid driving into the sea.

To quote Captain Kirrahe, it's time to "Hold the line!"

[Captain Caveman]

Also: it's probably been reported here already but the Trump team has eliminated the language about banning Muslim immigration from their page. His pivot and moderation has already begun.

Nope, it's was put back up a short time later.

[hepcat]

I love that a politician pivoting on a stance is horrible...unless you're a Trump supporter, then it's a strength.

[El Guapo]

Also: it's probably been reported here already but the Trump team has eliminated the language about banning Muslim immigration from their page. His pivot and moderation has already begun.

Nope, it's was put back up a short time later.

Not to mention that the idea that deleting a proposal to ban all members of a major religion from immigrating, without reversing it at all, would be considered "moderation" would be hilarious if it weren't so grim.

[msduncan]

The really fantastic thing about this Christmas season is knowing that the SCOTUS is safe for years to come. It was the biggest item on my wish list this season.

Hopefully we can get another appointment or two to make sure of it.

Where does a woman's right to have an abortion fit in your world view?
Do you have any daughters?
Care about any LGBT stuff?

Or do you just need to be sure toddlers are free to use firearms?
Just curious.

Honestly I didn't think I had to mention it because there has be *40 years* of Supreme Court precedent about abortion. That is definitely not being overturned.

[msduncan]

Also: it's probably been reported here already but the Trump team has eliminated the language about banning Muslim immigration from their page. His pivot and moderation has already begun.

Nope, it's was put back up a short time later.

I think the wording now says that he will aggressively vet immigrants from countries that have no vetting and controls. How is that unreasonable to you?

[Victoria Raverna]

Also: it's probably been reported here already but the Trump team has eliminated the language about banning Muslim immigration from their page. His pivot and moderation has already begun.

It was restored:

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-rele ... mmigration

(New York, NY) December 7th, 2015, -- Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on. According to Pew Research, among others, there is great hatred towards Americans by large segments of the Muslim population. Most recently, a poll from the Center for Security Policy released data showing "25% of those polled agreed that violence against Americans here in the United States is justified as a part of the global jihad" and 51% of those polled, "agreed that Muslims in America should have the choice of being governed according to Shariah." Shariah authorizes such atrocities as murder against non-believers who won't convert, beheadings and more unthinkable acts that pose great harm to Americans, especially women.

Mr. Trump stated, "Without looking at the various polling data, it is obvious to anybody the hatred is beyond comprehension. Where this hatred comes from and why we will have to determine. Until we are able to determine and understand this problem and the dangerous threat it poses, our country cannot be the victims of horrendous attacks by people that believe only in Jihad, and have no sense of reason or respect for human life. If I win the election for President, we are going to Make America Great Again." - Donald J. Trump

[GreenGoo]

Also: it's probably been reported here already but the Trump team has eliminated the language about banning Muslim immigration from their page. His pivot and moderation has already begun.

Nope, it's was put back up a short time later.

Not to mention that the idea that deleting a proposal to ban all members of a major religion from immigrating, without reversing it at all, would be considered "moderation" would be hilarious if it weren't so grim.

Just a reminder that Bush Jr. preached calm and reason after 9/11, to not take out your fear and anger on American muslims on the street, and, remarkably, the number of hate crimes that followed 9/11 were few.

If reports are correct, there have been more hate crimes after electing Drumpf than there were after 9/11.

Bush LED the entire country when it was reeling and lost, angry and scared. He calmed them so that cooler heads could prevail.

Drumpf has scare and hate mongered a significant portion of the American population during a time of relative peace and economic recovery.

Right now is going to show up in history books as the WTF period in American History.

[Archinerd]

Also: it's probably been reported here already but the Trump team has eliminated the language about banning Muslim immigration from their page. His pivot and moderation has already begun.

Nope, it's was put back up a short time later.

I think the wording now says that he will aggressively vet immigrants from countries that have no vetting and controls. How is that unreasonable to you?

Perhaps because it sounds like a euphemism for torture?

[Captain Caveman]

Also: it's probably been reported here already but the Trump team has eliminated the language about banning Muslim immigration from their page. His pivot and moderation has already begun.

Nope, it's was put back up a short time later.

I think the wording now says that he will aggressively vet immigrants from countries that have no vetting and controls. How is that unreasonable to you?

Here it is on his website.

DONALD J. TRUMP STATEMENT ON PREVENTING MUSLIM IMMIGRATION

It still singles out Muslims.

[El Guapo]

The really fantastic thing about this Christmas season is knowing that the SCOTUS is safe for years to come. It was the biggest item on my wish list this season.

Hopefully we can get another appointment or two to make sure of it.

Where does a woman's right to have an abortion fit in your world view?
Do you have any daughters?
Care about any LGBT stuff?

Or do you just need to be sure toddlers are free to use firearms?
Just curious.

Honestly I didn't think I had to mention it because there has be *40 years* of Supreme Court precedent about abortion. That is definitely not being overturned.

What makes you say that? Trump said he wanted it overturned during the debates. Scalia was a vote to overturn Roe v. Wade so his replacement won't make a difference, but if any of the four liberals or Kennedy dies in the next four years, it's on the chopping block.

[El Guapo]

I will be curious whether MSD will ever waiver or turn on Trump at any point in the next four years. I'd put that at a 10% chance.

[GreenGoo]

I think the wording now says that he will aggressively vet immigrants from countries that have no vetting and controls. How is that unreasonable to you?

Which countries are those? What is the difference between vetting and aggressively vetting? How in the hell could anyone, including you, know if that is reasonable or not?

He says gibberish and you interpret it however you like. It would be nice if the things he said meant anything besides generalities and outlandish lies.

msd, you've put an objectively bad human being (and not even because of the lies that come out of his mouth. Decades of actions are there for your perusal) in the WH. A man you wouldn't let be principal of your kids' school because you know in your heart of hearts that he would be hiring shoddy contractors and cheap materials for the playground, pocketing half of it and bilking you for the rest, while the playground fell down around the kids less than a year later.

You've made a YUGE mistake.

Good luck with that.

[GreenGoo]

I will be curious whether MSD will ever waiver or turn on Trump at any point in the next four years. I'd put that at a 10% chance.

Yeah, even Rip said he wanted Drumpf because he wanted to burn down the system. I assume, again based on what msd has written here, that he feels Drumpf was a good and reasonable choice for the presidency.

There's not a lot to be done when facts aren't enough.

[Kraken]

Joe Scarborough this morning was talking about how Trump will want a "big" legacy - a-la Teddy Roosevelt; he will not go along with Republicans' ideas about "small spending", "small government", small anything. Trump has presumably already spoken with Nancy Pelosi about a possible infrastructure spending bill. So yes, some of his plans are likely to be large moderate compromises. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to understand simple math: if you cut taxes the way he planned AND spend all that money, you drive record debts, cause the country's credit rating to be downgraded, and hurt the economy.

Yes, but in the meantime you get to ride that growth spurt that you promised. It's going to take most of 2017 to get that stimulus passed and implemented; it will be 2018 by the time it bears results. Not a stretch to think that you won't have to pay the piper until after 2020.

What confuses me is that Trump is reportedly going to propose $1 trillion in infrastructure spending, "though much of the money is expected to come from the private sector." How's that going to work?

[GreenGoo]

Sell/give the infrastructure to the private sector. Duh.

The problem with your assumption about short term gain is that if Drumpf wants an actual legacy, it has to be something that sticks long term.

Otherwise he's just getting fan service while in office but his legacy is one of bankrupting (not literally. Well hopefully not literally) the country.

[Max Peck]

Joe Scarborough this morning was talking about how Trump will want a "big" legacy - a-la Teddy Roosevelt; he will not go along with Republicans' ideas about "small spending", "small government", small anything. Trump has presumably already spoken with Nancy Pelosi about a possible infrastructure spending bill. So yes, some of his plans are likely to be large moderate compromises. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to understand simple math: if you cut taxes the way he planned AND spend all that money, you drive record debts, cause the country's credit rating to be downgraded, and hurt the economy.

Yes, but in the meantime you get to ride that growth spurt that you promised. It's going to take most of 2017 to get that stimulus passed and implemented; it will be 2018 by the time it bears results. Not a stretch to think that you won't have to pay the piper until after 2020.

What confuses me is that Trump is reportedly going to propose $1 trillion in infrastructure spending, "though much of the money is expected to come from the private sector." How's that going to work?

Tax credits and toll booths.

[Smoove_B]

How's that going to work?

He'll lease them the rights to the roads after they help construct them and they can collect tolls.

[gilraen]

Just a reminder that Bush Jr. preached calm and reason after 9/11, to not take out your fear and anger on American muslims on the street, and, remarkably, the number of hate crimes that followed 9/11 were few.

If reports are correct, there have been more hate crimes after electing Drumpf than there were after 9/11.

Bush LED the entire country when it was reeling and lost, angry and scared. He calmed them so that cooler heads could prevail.

Drumpf has scare and hate mongered a significant portion of the American population during a time of relative peace and economic recovery.

Bush may have been a weak president on foreign policy (he knew that; he campaigned on the basis of domestic policy reforms and if not for 9/11, he would have kept to it) - but he is a patriot and a decent person with a moral compass that was never put in doubt, even when his political opponents disagreed on his values. Trump is human garbage.

[GreenGoo]

While my point was to point out Bush's strengths and leadership during a time of strife, I have to say that starting a war because "reasons" tarnishes my view of him and the legacy of his presidency.

That said, I would go back and suffer through that time period again if it meant Drumpf never reaches the white house.

[Kraken]

Sell/give the infrastructure to the private sector. Duh.

The problem with your assumption about short term gain is that if Drumpf wants an actual legacy, it has to be something that sticks long term.

Otherwise he's just getting fan service while in office but his legacy is one of bankrupting (not literally. Well hopefully not literally) the country.

Legacies are second-term agendas. The first term is all about reelection.

How's that going to work?

He'll lease them the rights to the roads after they help construct them and they can collect tolls.

So today's Pilgrims Highway becomes tomorrow's Bank of America Turnpike. Got it.

[El Guapo]

Autocracy: Rules for Survival.

An important read.

[Defiant]

What confuses me is that Trump is reportedly going to propose $1 trillion in infrastructure spending,

You heard wrong. He's going to spend $1 trumpillion.

[GreenGoo]

Legacies are second-term agendas. The first term is all about reelection.

Fair enough and good point. Why are we talking about legacies then? And by we, I mean Joe Scarborough.

[gilraen]

I have to say that starting a war because "reasons" tarnishes my view of him and the legacy of his presidency.

Well, that was part of his weakness: he relied on VERY bad advice because he could not understand all implications of what Cheney & Co. convinced him to do.

[dbt1949]

The last couple of days seem to be racist holidays. Is this going to continue indefinitely?

[Defiant]

The last couple of days seem to be racist holidays. Is this going to continue indefinitely?

Only for the next four years with an option for another four.

[Defiant]

US to replace national anthem with the Benny Hill theme