Octopus Overlords

I don't know if Biden could have actually done anything but not even trying? I've talked to at least a dozen women in the last few days. All of them are completely demoralized by these events and he has no plan. Meanwhile somehow McConnell is still winning. Not that a deal might be a bad thing - we don't know what Biden is getting - but the timing of this news hurts him.

It really is puzzling. However, let's not pretend Democrats en masse have done anything for the last 40+ years to protect/advance women's rights at a federal level. The idea that they knew this was coming and still did absolutely nothing in advance is inexcusable.

But I am guessing there will be Q2 economy bullet points released on Friday to demonstrate just how great things are financially for everyone.

Honestly a lot of these out of touch elders really thought Friday would never come. Yet instead of waking up to the reality of the peril and battle they face, they just turn the page and ask the voters to trust them. This is going to be a bloodbath. I suspect this is why so many progressives are winning primaries right now. People are fed up with the centrist Democratic party. Which is bad bigger picture. Biden is presiding over a historical political meltdown.

Edit: Also Congress has been 75%+ men for ... all time. There was no urgency to fix it.

It’s not going to be fixed in a week. Or a year. And telling the Republicans the plan is counterproductive.

I do think this will be a very good optical excuse for Biden to step aside to allow a female Democrat to run for President.

Mississippi House Speaker says he believes a 12-year-old who is raped and impregnated by her own father should still be forced to give birth because “life begins at conception.

How truly awful must it be to be this being this utterly vile of a human being.

It's all about freedom. The freedom to pick the mother of your child.

This is one part females as chattel and one part caveman. Whatever it is it is completely uncivilized.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:02 pm How truly awful must it be to be this being this utterly vile of a human being.

I just need video of this same person raging over the idea of making school children wear a mask and I can call it a night.

They are in full on denial of reality. They are trying to protect the legitimacy of the Supreme Court? Stop polarization?! This is a parody right? It can't be real. There is a damn good reason Biden is constantly fighting about challenges in 2024. His pary is going to rebel against him at this rate.

Edit: Sorry for the top part partially repeating but that is bottom part is ... something. I can't wait until they are surprised when Democratic turnout doesn't show up.

Undermine trust in the Supreme Court? I’d say that ship has sailed.

Its ponderous. Meanwhile this is what is next up their sleeves. Maybe he can talk it over with them over a beer and get them to stop if he will agree to privatize social security or something minor.

Whoa, whoa, whoa - they're running the risk of being too divisive with those kinds of policies. Aren't they running them through focus groups first?

You know, maybe Drazzil is right. Sleep now in the fire.

What we are experiencing is not leadership. It is complicity masquerading as helplessness.

I get why he feels that way but lots of evidence really does suggest that Biden is really this terrible.

The anti-abortion judge appointment deal in KY to somehow work with Mitch McConnell? I mean really.

I’ll complain once we know what Biden got in return. The custom is to ask a Senator in the state about candidates. With KY, both Senators are asshats.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:18 pm The anti-abortion judge appointment deal in KY to somehow work with Mitch McConnell? I mean really.

Some are skeptical it is real but it was at least for now reported by a local paper in KY. Maybe McConnell is playing a prank but even if not true Biden has been dragging his feet on some judicial appointments. I think the most likely deal will pave the way for votes on Biden appointees. Barring that I guess they'll get to test whether the GOP will seat any judges for the other Presidents party.

If people try to stop anyone from crossing state lines for an abortion, I will rescind my opposition to violence. Thats effectively martial law and it’s time to exercise those 2nd amendment rights they’re always taking about.

Sorry, but the thought of this is infuriating and pushes me further than I thought possible.

There are other crazy fascist ideas too. One is that some christofascist states are talking about criminalizing websites that solicit or offer help to women to get an abortion out of state. No matter where they are hosted or operated from. I don't know how that'll work.

NJ is at least trying to protect women that cross state lines:

The first bill (S2642) would prohibit New Jersey from allowing someone to be extradited to another state to be prosecuted for a crime that involves performing an abortion or any other form of reproductive health care.

The other bill (S2633) would ensure the privacy of medical records of patients who have received an abortion or other reproductive health services here in New Jersey. It would also protect the license of a medical professional in the state who provided an abortion to a person who lives in a state where the procedure is illegal. The measure also prohibits any state agency or employee from responding to an interstate investigation or proceeding involving the pursuit of an abortion or other forms of reproductive healthcare.

They were passed in both the state Senate and Assembly this evening so we're just waiting on our governor to sign them.

hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:24 pm If people try to stop anyone from crossing state lines for an abortion, I will rescind my opposition to violence. Thats effectively martial law and it’s time to exercise those 2nd amendment rights they’re always taking about.

Sorry, but the thought of this is infuriating and pushes me further than I thought possible.

I get it. I think this will be the most likely path to violence unfortunately. Even in victory they want to go further. This about control. And they want to impose their views on the majority.

malchior wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:32 pm There are other crazy fascist ideas too. One is that some christofascist states are talking about criminalizing websites that solicit or offer help to women to get an abortion out of state. No matter where they are hosted or operated from. I don't know how that'll work.

I honestly feel the faster they come down with the most severe laws - the fewer women will die - because it will may help people wake up

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:33 pm NJ is at least trying to protect women that cross state lines:

The first bill (S2642) would prohibit New Jersey from allowing someone to be extradited to another state to be prosecuted for a crime that involves performing an abortion or any other form of reproductive health care.

The other bill (S2633) would ensure the privacy of medical records of patients who have received an abortion or other reproductive health services here in New Jersey. It would also protect the license of a medical professional in the state who provided an abortion to a person who lives in a state where the procedure is illegal. The measure also prohibits any state agency or employee from responding to an interstate investigation or proceeding involving the pursuit of an abortion or other forms of reproductive healthcare.

They were passed in both the state Senate and Assembly this evening so we're just waiting on our governor to sign them.

It's legit insane what is happening. Women everywhere are terrified. Many wonder when they are coming for their medicine next. And we can't say it won't happen. Not anymore. We are a shit hole country.

SCOTUS has done what a civil war couldn’t.

Unagi wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:35 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:32 pm There are other crazy fascist ideas too. One is that some christofascist states are talking about criminalizing websites that solicit or offer help to women to get an abortion out of state. No matter where they are hosted or operated from. I don't know how that'll work.

I honestly feel the faster they come down with the most severe laws - the fewer women will die - because it will may help people wake up

We can certainly hope that all of this is a massive overstep.

The final thread of hope, right?

hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:35 pm Undermine trust in the Supreme Court? I’d say that ship has sailed.

Biden's fatal flaw is his abiding faith in the institutions (SCOTUS, the filibuster) that defined his working life, even as they are being weaponized against his party and citizens at large. He's trying to preserve a past that's being swept away daily, which is the very definition of conservatism. Democrats need someone to lead them into the future -- or at least fight the battles of the present.

The appeal of authoritarianism shows that Americans want strong leaders more than democracy. Biden doesn't project strength, and democracy is suffering for it.

Eh, even Kavanaugh has signaled pretty clearly that attempting to prevent women from crossing state lines is a step too far.

“Some of the other abortion-related legal questions raised by today’s decision are not especially difficult as a constitutional matter,” Kavanaugh wrote. “For example, may a State bar a resident of that State from traveling to another State to obtain an abortion? In my view, the answer is no based on the constitutional right to interstate travel.”

The constitutional right in question is likely the Dormant Commerce Clause, which prohibits states from passing legislation that impacts interstate commerce.

“Abortion is a service. It’s clearly commerce,” Rachel Rebouché, a professor and interim dean at Temple University’s Beasley School of Law, recently told Fortune.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure some state legislature will try - but I don't think it's going to pass Constitutional muster. Even with this Court.

First, you''ll excuse me if I don't believe a single thing he says.

Second, they know they don't need to worry about all this interstate stuff because it's just temporary. I can guarantee if they take control in 2024 the first piece of legislation that will be signed into law 37 seconds after the Oath of Office is administered is a federal ban on abortions.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:50 pm First, you''ll excuse me if I don't believe a single thing he says.

Second, they know they don't need to worry about all this interstate stuff because it's just temporary. I can guarantee if they take control in 2024 the first piece of legislation that will be signed into law 37 seconds after the Oath of Office is administered is a federal ban on abortions.

And they'll nuke the filibuster to do it.

Little Raven wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:44 pm Eh, even Kavanaugh has signaled pretty clearly that attempting to prevent women from crossing state lines is a step too far.

That’s a relief. I know Kavanaugh is man of his word.

I have no reason to think that he and his friends don't like beer.

I don’t know if this has already been mentioned here but those on twitter should check out the Lake Superior twitter account over the last several days.

Remus West wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:14 pm I don’t know if this has already been mentioned here but those on twitter should check out the Lake Superior twitter account over the last several days.

I've seen some memes from it on the facebook. Quite clever.

Kraken wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:44 pm

Remus West wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:14 pm I don’t know if this has already been mentioned here but those on twitter should check out the Lake Superior twitter account over the last several days.

I've seen some memes from it on the facebook. Quite clever.

hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:24 pm If people try to stop anyone from crossing state lines for an abortion, I will rescind my opposition to violence. Thats effectively martial law and it’s time to exercise those 2nd amendment rights they’re always taking about.

Sorry, but the thought of this is infuriating and pushes me further than I thought possible.

You can't restrict interstate trade or travel. So I feel this one would never fly.

For abortion activists the baby's rights override the mothers because abortion kills the child.

I don't believe in a blanket right to abortions at any time in the pregnancy but these new state laws completely ignore medical common sense.

Now the complexity in abortion is that sometimes it is medically necessary because often the woman's body will need assistance to miscarry (which is a natural thing) and the procedure to save the mothers life is an abortion. Take Sharon Stone she had 7 miscarriages. (Then adopted 3 kids.)

The true believers want to stop abortion on dead foetuses, non viable foetuses with a heartbeat or even ectopic pregnancy (which will never result in a viable pregnancy) and prosecute miscarriage if the mother did anything they judge may have caused it.

Remember the body will in stress produce hormones to end the pregnancy. The same in abortion pills.

In health you need exceptions. Its never black and white.

Take cancer treatment. If a woman is pregnant chemo will kill the baby. But the mother may never make it to term without the chemo. So what then?

Do you prosecute the teenager who got pregnant and without knowing partied away resulting in a miscarriage?

Its scary stuff.

Little Raven wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:44 pm Eh, even Kavanaugh has signaled pretty clearly that attempting to prevent women from crossing state lines is a step too far.

“Some of the other abortion-related legal questions raised by today’s decision are not especially difficult as a constitutional matter,” Kavanaugh wrote. “For example, may a State bar a resident of that State from traveling to another State to obtain an abortion? In my view, the answer is no based on the constitutional right to interstate travel.”

Ah yes, the line dancer speaks facts on the Constitution.


"In my view, the answer is no based on the constitutional right to interstate travel."
Shall we count the qualifiers?


And even if it holds that they can't bar them from traveling, what's to stop another resident in a state like Texas from suing them and the out of state provider. Even if it goes nowhere it has a pretty strong chilling effect. Because that's the goal here.

Arguably Texas could imprison the person who helps the resident get an abortion either thru driving her or helping her pay. Or the lady on her return to Texas.

waitingtoconnect wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:16 am

hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:24 pm If people try to stop anyone from crossing state lines for an abortion, I will rescind my opposition to violence. Thats effectively martial law and it’s time to exercise those 2nd amendment rights they’re always taking about.

Sorry, but the thought of this is infuriating and pushes me further than I thought possible.

You can't restrict interstate trade or travel. So I feel this one would never fly.

The scary thing is, I normally would be right there with you on this. But I never thought Roe v Wade would be overturned. I even said so years ago when Trump was elected. So at this point, all bets are off in my eyes. I honestly don’t know how far these people will go anymore.

I can see religious conservatives blockading border crossings into states that allow abortion.

Remember now they've "won" they need another issue to whip up the base and get them out to vote again. The promise of a constitutional amendment banning abortion nationwide is the way to do it.

Let’s hope the fact that a majority of citizens would be opposed to it results in a backlash. Although majority means little in our system.