SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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Today is a good day to remember Yuri Gagarin, a humble young man who quit drinking, quit smoking and trained for 11 years, all in order to spend 108 minutes outside the Soviet Union
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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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:clap:
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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Daehawk wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 1:27 pm The material in that CME is likely to impact Earth on April 14, according to SpaceWeather.
Probably the excuse that NASA will use when something else goes wrong with Artemis I Wet Dress Rehearsal :wink:
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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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April 12th, 1981. First launch of the Space Shuttle:
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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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From SpaceFlightNow, NASA restarts moon rocket wet dress rehearsal countdown
NASA restarted a two-day dress-rehearsal countdown Tuesday for the agency’s new Space Launch System moon rocket after a series of unrelated glitches, mostly involving ground systems, blocked two earlier attempts to fully fuel the huge launcher to verify its readiness for flight.

The lone rocket-related problem — trouble with a one-way helium pressurization valve in the booster’s second stage — cannot be fixed at the launch pad and engineers will be unable to pump supercold cryogenic propellants into the stage during fueling operations Thursday as originally planned.

Instead, the team will concentrate on loading the SLS core stage with 537,000 gallons of liquid hydrogen fuel and 196,000 gallons of liquid oxygen Thursday morning, testing their ability to monitor and control the flow of propellants, verifying control room commanding and validating software through two terminal countdown test runs.

In one, the countdown will tick down to the T-minus 33-second mark before a recycle back to T-minus 10 minutes to test procedures that could be needed should a problem interrupt an actual launch countdown.

A second run will then will tick all the way down to T-minus 9.3 seconds, the moment before main engine ignition commands would be sent for an actual launch. At that point, the ground launch sequencer computer will stop the countdown and the test will end.
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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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Artist impression of vehicles in use.
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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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Makes me wonder which end is which.
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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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Nasa spots record breaking, huge comet headed towards Earth
Nasa has spotted a record-breakingly large comet headed towards Earth.

Its icy nucleus is bigger than any ever seen – measuring around 80 miles across, and 50 times bigger than the heart of most known comets. It is also thought to have a mass of about 500 trillion tons – a hundred thousand times more massive than the typical comet found closer to the Sun.

And the object, known as C/2014 UN271 (Bernardinelli-Bernstein), is headed in this direction, quickly. Travelling at 22,000 miles per hour, it is moving from the edge of the solar system towards its the centre.

However, we should be entirely safe. The comet will not get closer than a billion miles from the Sun – further away even than the planet Saturn – and that will not happen until 2031.

The object has been known about since November 2010, at which point it was 3 billion miles from the Sun or the distance to Neptune. Since then, researchers have been looking to understand more about it, using telescopes both in space and on Earth.
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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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If you want more current updates on today's SLS tanking test, go to the SpaceFlightNow site giving live updates.

Right now it's been a couple of hours since there was a automatic stop flow during the transition from liquid hydrogen slow fill to fast fill and apparently they are still discussing the issue. The last update from SFN says it all:
04/14/2022 14:23 Stephen Clark

It’s unclear whether the liquid hydrogen flow into the SLS core stage has actually resumed. At last report, NASA’s ground systems team tweeted engineers are “working through options” to resume fast fill.

Despite multiple requests from news organizations, NASA is not providing any real-time audio of the countdown dress rehearsal, citing "export control" concerns. NASA also declined to broadcast the Artemis countdown test on NASA TV.
I still say there's something bogus about claiming export controls being the reason for not providing the audio of the command channels.
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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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Excellent in-depth article from Space.com, Starlink: SpaceX's satellite internet project. Definitely worth a look.

UPDATE: And coincidentally, this story came out today as well, French court revokes SpaceX's Starlink internet license, citing monopolization concerns
The highest administrative court in France revoked SpaceX's license to provide internet services in the country via its Starlink megaconstellation, citing monopolization concerns due to the size and scale of the company's operations.

France's telecom regulator, Arcep, awarded SpaceX the license in February 2021 without first conducting a public consultation, the court determined.

The court appeal was led by two environmental organizations that cited possible impacts of the megaconstellation on the environment, including light pollution, space debris and also human health.

The court, however, based its decision to revoke the license mostly on the argument that the nature of SpaceX's business — which includes rocket and satellite manufacturing, launch services, satellite operations and telecommunication services — could distort the market and squeeze out competition, which, in the end, would negatively affect French consumers.
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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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NASA calls off 3rd attempt to fuel up Artemis 1 moon rocket
The third try was not the charm for NASA's Artemis 1 moon mission.

Today (April 14), the space agency called off the latest attempt to fuel up Artemis 1's huge Space Launch System (SLS) rocket, a crucial part of the mission's "wet dress rehearsal" at Kennedy Space Center in Florida (KSC). Artemis 1 team members detected a leak of liquid hydrogen (LH2) — one of SLS' two propellants, along with liquid oxygen (LOX) — during tanking operations. That brought a halt to today's fueling activity, as well as other key wet dress procedures.

"The team will keep the [SLS] core stage LH2 tank at about 5% and the core stage LOX loading will remain stopped. The team will not conduct the terminal countdown activities today as planned and will assess next steps after today's operations," Jeremy Parsons, deputy manager of NASA's Exploration Ground Systems team at KSC, said via Twitter this afternoon.
Hmm, can't keep the core stage LH2 at 5%, boiloff will reduce that unless they resume loading. So what I think they mean is that they will drain both core stage tanks.

I'm still waiting for my home phone to ring, I'm available... at a price :wink:
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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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lolz

"Any changes to Dragon this time out?"

"We added USB charging ports for the astronauts."

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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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Another update on Artemis I, Hydrogen leak halts tanking test for Artemis moon rocket. The main story was published yesterday with an editor's update today.
A hydrogen leak near the connection between NASA’s Space Launch System moon rocket and its mobile launch platform foiled another attempt Thursday to pump cryogenic propellants into the towering mega-booster at the Kennedy Space Center.

NASA managers called off a countdown rehearsal Thursday afternoon after hours of delays stemming from at least four technical problems. The final, and potentially most significant, issue was a hydrogen leak in the tail service mast umbilical on the mobile launch platform near the bottom of the SLS core stage.

Engineers discovered the leak during operations Thursday to load liquid hydrogen into the core stage on Launch Complex 39B at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center. The leak forced managers to stop the propellant loading with the core stage’s liquid hydrogen tank 5% full and the liquid oxygen tank at the 49% level, according to NASA.

The tail service mast umbilical routes super-cold propellants from the mobile launch platform into the rocket’s 27.6-foot-wide (8.4-meter) main stage.

The launch team planned to drain the propellants from the SLS core stage Thursday evening, allowing technicians to return to pad 39B to inspect the leaky umbilical connection, review data, and determine what to do next to address the problem, NASA said.
EDITOR’S NOTE: NASA officials said Friday that the earliest opportunity to re-try the Artemis 1 countdown dress rehearsal is Thursday, April 21, but that assumes technicians can find and repair the hydrogen leak.
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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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They just dont build them like they used to.
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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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From Space.com, NASA may resume critical Artemis 1 moon rocket tests next week
NASA may take its fourth crack at fueling up the huge Artemis 1 moon rocket as early as next Thursday (April 21), agency officials said.
At the bottom of the article there was this:
The SLS has never flown before, so it's hardly surprising to encounter a few problems during the test campaign. For example, it took five or six tanking attempts to get the space shuttle ready for its first-ever flight in 1981, said Artemis launch director Charlie Blackwell-Thompson, of NASA Exploration Ground Systems program at KSC.

"I would say we're within family of our experience in the past for first-time [operations]," Blackwell-Thompson said during Friday's Artemis 1 news conference.
Well, sorry Charlie :D, but we didn't have "tanking attempts" in STS-1, we had successful cryo loadings. To confirm my recollections I referred to my copy of Space Shuttle: Developing an Icon 1972-2013 by Dennis R Jenkins (expensive, but it is essentially my family album, so to speak). After rolling to the pad in later December 1980 we had our S0012 Integrated Tanking Test in late January where we loaded LH2 and LOX on separate days, both all the way to replenish (that means we filled all the way).

After the tankings it was discovered that a good deal of the acreage of the External Tank's foam had separated. It was decided that before rolling back to fix the foam we would do our engine firing test, so the loose foam was secured with cargo nets to prevent it from being shaken loose during the engine test. We successfully tanked both propellants simultaneously for the S0014 Flight Readiness Firing which went off successfully.

After that the stack was rolled back it took a while to fix all the foam issues since it was never intended that there be access platforms to reach all the areas on the tank, they had to be built up. After rolling to the pad again we had two more tanking tests to properly stress the foam to make sure the fixes worked. Then we tanked again for a launch attempt on April 10th that was scrubbed due to an onboard computer issue, then tanked once more for the successful launch on April 12th.

My point of all this lengthy :roll: post is that, while we did have our share of problems, the STS-1 tankings went six for six while so far Artemis I is zero for three.
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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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Gonna be awhile...

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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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Based on my previous experience out there, I suspect there will be a number of "come to Jesus" meetings with the various Artemis I and ground systems to try to smoke out any other lingering potential showstoppers. There will be hell to pay if after a two month delay the next tanking test fails due to something that could have been addressed now.
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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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From Space.com, NASA to roll Artemis 1 moon rocket off the launch pad after failed fueling tries
NASA has decided to roll its Artemis 1 moon rocket off the launch pad and back to a processing facility to fix some issues revealed by a recent "wet dress rehearsal" test.
That article contains a good example of why you should always take any observations made by journalists with grains of salt:
Technicians began fueling the core stage on April 14 as planned, but they stopped after noticing that liquid hydrogen was leaking from one of the "umbilical" lines running from the mobile launch tower to the SLS.
First of all, why is the word umbilical in quote marks? The author used the word umbilical two paragraphs later without the quote marks.

Second, nobody noticed liquid hydrogen was leaking. They noticed that hydrogen levels in the T-0 umbilical box (or whatever the Artemis name is for it) was increasing. That box contains a purged cavity where the umbilical quick disconnects are mated to the launch vehicle. They have sensors that monitor gaseous hydrogen levels in the box and were alerted when they exceeded prescribed levels. To say that someone was noticing liquid hydrogen leaking is misleading.

Sorry to go on about this but people who cover space related news ought to be more careful about their word usage. I'm sure there are a lot of folks in our forum who are experienced or even experts in their own field who come across this sort of misinformation as well.
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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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Another article about Saturday's post tanking attempt briefing from Space news.com. It had this rather concerning statement.
Blackwell-Thompson suggested one option would be to do another tanking test once the vehicle returns to the pad for the Artemis 1 launch. “You could certainly look at your schedule risk for launch countdown and make a decision whether or not you wanted to do a tanking prior to a launch countdown,” she said. In that scenario, the rocket would go through a tanking test and practice countdown and, if all went well, “some days later decide to go launch.”
Seriously? NASA is considering it only an option to do another tanking test? After the problems they have had and their failure to successfully tank the vehicle, why would anyone have the confidence that NASA could enter launch day with never having filled the tanks on the core stage or the upper stage?
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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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What could possibly go wrong?
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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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Zaxxon wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 10:24 pm What could possibly go wrong?
Yup! I mean, if you thought doing a tanking test was important before, why suddenly is it now only worth considering as an option? As I've said, I've worked with Charlie Blackwell-Thompson towards the end of the Shuttle program and she's always seemed pretty competent to me, so I'm guessing that maybe it's people farther up the food chain that are pressuring the decision. Sounds rather alarmingly like what happened before we lost Challenger...
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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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Is it possible that she is talking about options for when the test is done, not if it is done?
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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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Max Peck wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 10:36 pm Is it possible that she is talking about options for when the test is done, not if it is done?
I interpret her quote to mean that the vehicle could proceed to countdown after a successful tanking. Whether they call it a test or not, they've got to fill 'er up before they can launch. So if the next fill-up attempt goes without a hitch, is there any reason to drain and refill it before launch?
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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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Max Peck wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 10:36 pm Is it possible that she is talking about options for when the test is done, not if it is done?
Well, perhaps that's possible, but it's not the way I read it. However, I think the concern is still there that NASA is talking about options to do a tanking test after return to pad, rather than making a firm commitment to do so. Remember, there is an issue with an Interim Cryogenic Propulsion Stage (ICPS) check valve that needs to be fixed back in the VAB due to access and it was that check valve issue that lead to the decision for the third attempt of the tanking last week to happen without loading the ICPS tanks.

If NASA does not take up the option to do a tanking test after returning to the pad, then it would be on the actual launch day that the tanks of the ICPS would first be filled with cryos, not to mention the tanks of the core stage. To me that just stands out as a bad decision. If you've had three attempts at loading and run into issues that scrubbed each attempt, a good conservative approach is to say we're going to fix everything we can in the VAB, roll to the pad and then do a full up tanking test, then sit down and review the data and make sure we understand all the data, then go into a launch attempt.

One of the lessons of Challenger was to never say "prove to me your reason why you can't launch today". I'm just getting the sinking feeling that NASA is forgetting that lesson once again.

And I confess, I don't know if there is going to be an Artemis I version of the Flight Readiness Firing (FRF) we had back in Shuttle, to actually run the engines for several seconds on the pad after doing a tanking, then drain and look at the data. We did that for each new Shuttle on its first flow. I suspect not, because it would have been the obvious thing for Charlie B-T to say, that once the Artemis I stack returns to the pad they were going to do a tanking and engine firing and that would be their tanking test. Since that wasn't said, I'm thinking that there is no FRF planned.
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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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Kraken wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 11:18 pm
Max Peck wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 10:36 pm Is it possible that she is talking about options for when the test is done, not if it is done?
I interpret her quote to mean that the vehicle could proceed to countdown after a successful tanking. Whether they call it a test or not, they've got to fill 'er up before they can launch. So if the next fill-up attempt goes without a hitch, is there any reason to drain and refill it before launch?
Absolutely, there are lots of good reasons. One is data review. There are thousands of sensors on the vehicle and each produces lots of data. You want to make sure that filling the vehicle with cryos didn't adversely affect any components. You can have computers monitor the sensors for pass/fail limits based upon predictions, but those predictions are based upon suppositions. Data reviews need to happen to verify that the data seen lines up with the data predicted. if not, then you have to figure out why.

Another area is the insulation on the core stage. On STS-1 after tanking and draining it was found that a good deal of the foam had separated, allowing moisture to enter between the foam and the tank skin. If we had launched, on ascent the radiant heat from the SRBs would have caused that moisture to flash to vapor, possibly causing loss of large amounts of foam acreage. That in turn would have drastically raised the bulk temperature of the hydrogen tank, causing potential overpressure of the tank and maybe vehicle loss.

Loading the cryo tanks on the core stage affects the local temperature of the SRB joints. Again, while there the predictions of what would be acceptable lower temps for those joints, you'd want to go actually inspect the joints post-tanking and verify the integrity of the joints.

Also remember that this is a one-shot mission, it's not SpaceX that can throw away several Starships and just build new ones. If Artemis I is lost then it would take a damn bold NASA administrator to propose that we still fly the next one with people on board. You'd have to redo the mission and that would be what, a two year delay? How much more money can Congress keep throwing at this program before they say enough. If I'm the NASA administrator, I'm telling the Artemis I management team to do the extra testing. But then the NASA administrator is a politician, not an ex-astronaut. Well, he is an ex-astronaut :roll:, but not enough of one to have it override his political inclinations.

I can go on for quite a while with reasons, but it's approaching midnight :roll:
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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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Thanks for explaining why we can't just gas and go. I understand that we have to be super careful with our first moon rocket in 50+ years, but the intricacies of pumping gas are beyond my ken.
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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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We took my son to Kennedy Space Center yesterday, and they were hyping up the SLS and Artemis I quite a bit on the tours. They do mention the rising importance of commercial launches from KSC, but it's a little funny that they also claim this is most important because it frees up NASA to focus on their primary objective of getting to the moon (and eventually Mars) with the SLS. Nevermind that it's already a $20+ billion project focused on a fully expendable rocket that is projected to costs more than $2 billion dollars each time it launches, while the privates sector is building reusable systems at a fraction of the cost...

Aside from the politics, however, we had a great time at KSC. The Apollo/Saturn V complex is a really well done look at the basics of the Apollo program, with a lot of neat things to see...full Saturn V, unused lunar module, actual Apollo 14 command module, nice tribute to the Apollo I crew. The Atlantis exhibit impressed me the most though. They have a really nice intro movie about the shuttle's development, and the way they reveal the actual Atlantis shuttle on display at the end of the movie had people cheering. I don't want to ruin the surprise for anyone who might visit, but as someone who was obsessed with the shuttles as a kid in the 80s, it was a pretty awesome moment.

While we were hopeful that we might catch a launch when we made our initial travel plans, it just wasn't in the cards. The SpaceX crew launch hit big delay until next week sometime, and the Falcon 9 Starlink launch is happening at best two days after we left eastern Florida. That said, we did get to see both SLS/Artemis I and the Falcon 9 at the launch pads at the same time...pretty cool Image





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Very cool. I hope to take my kids there someday.
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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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SpaceX gets even more business...

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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

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This week's installment from NASASpaceflight.com about progress at Cape Canaveral. Stories include what's new at the SpaceX facility on Roberts Road, including the first work on the eventual Booster and Starship assembly facilities. There's a look at the work being done at LC-39A on the Booster/Starship launch pad and modifications to the Pad A LH2 tank to convert it to liquid methane. Also some news from LC-36 where Blue Origin is building up its launch facilities and a flyover of the Blue Origin facility where ground breaking has begun on new assembly buildings for the new New Glenn rocket. And a quick look at the Air Liquide facility on Merritt Island where upgrades are being done to support all these customers.

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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

Post by jztemple2 »

SpaceX is launching another Starlink mission from the Cape this afternoon. That will be their sixth Falcon 9 launch of the month from here.
My father said that anything is interesting if you bother to read about it - Michael C. Harrold
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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

Post by jztemple2 »

From NASASpaceflight.com, Starlink Group 4-16 launch to break SpaceX turnaround records
SpaceX will make its seventeenth launch of the year on Friday to put another batch of Starlink satellites into low Earth orbit. A Falcon 9 rocket will carry out the Starlink Group 4-16 mission, which is scheduled for liftoff at 5:27:10 pm EDT (21:27 UTC) from Space Launch Complex 40 at the Cape Canaveral Space Force Station in Florida.
Friday’s launch will break four records, all related to turnaround times, making it one of SpaceX’s most record-breaking missions of recent years and illustrating the progress that SpaceX is making towards increasing its launch cadence.

The booster used for this mission is B1062-6. This booster has already flown five times, with its most recent launch being on the Axiom-1 mission earlier in April. Assuming an on-time liftoff for the Starlink mission, the turnaround time will be 21 days, 6 hours, and 10 minutes, smashing the previous booster turnaround record by almost a week.

Code: Select all

Booster 	Time between launches 	Between flights 	Missions
B1062 	        21d 6h 10min 	              5 and 6 	   Axiom-1 and Starlink Group 4-16
B1060 	        27d 4h 4min 	              4 and 5 	   Turksat 5A and Starlink v1.0-18
B1058 	        27d 8h 21min 	              6 and 7 	   Starlink v1.0-20 and Starlink v1.0-23
B1060 	        35d 23h 7min 	              6 and 7 	   Starlink v1.0-22 and Starlink v1.0-24
B1052 	        36d 15h 34min 	              3 and 4 	   CSG-2 and Starlink Group 4-10
It is understood that this booster is part of a special refurbishment treatment that SpaceX is experimenting with to increase its launch cadence, especially for Starlink missions. SpaceX aims to compress its booster refurbishment timeline from two or three weeks down to just five to seven days, allowing turnaround times as short as three weeks or perhaps less.
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Re: SPACE - random thread about space stuff

Post by Zaxxon »

Sweet. Mostly because it's cool, but also for selfish reasons.

Get those Starlink sats up, stat! I have a reservation put in for a place that currently gets 15Mbps/2Mbps and I wants me my Starlink ASAP.
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