Octopus Overlords

Everybody hates lawyers until they need one.

Since I'm not a lawyer I have to go on what Chuck said in front of the Bar that what he did was not entrapment. I know many lawyers and none of them are con men. I don't see Chuck that way either and they haven't showed him do anything with clients that wasn't totally professional.

If you took Jimmy out of the equation, would Chuck be a bad guy to be around? I don't think so. He seems like a good enough guy who just happens to have a debilitating mental illness. The problem is that Chuck has had to grow up with a total sleezeball for a brother. That's gotta suck. Especially when you are the exact opposite. Chuck has a lot of jealousy too over Jimmy's ability to befriend people and resentment because he knows Jimmy is going to eventually hurt those people. When Jimmy finally crosses that line and betrays Chuck, the wrath is pretty strong, yet understandable. We love Jimmy because the show is presented from his perspective. If the show was shot from Chuck's perspective we'd all see Jimmy as the asshole who deserves to be smacked down.

For some reason I got the urge to revisit Breaking Bad, and watched the first season again over the last two days. It was interesting to see how the early incarnation of the characters differed from what they became (Jesse isn't nearly as sympathetic as he becomes at the end). I'd also forgotten how funny it was at times (i.e. Walt & Jesse cooking in the basement of Jesse's house while his realtor is holding an open house at the same time). I also thought Hector made his appearance in S1, but I guess I was wrong.

tgb wrote:For some reason I got the urge to revisit Breaking Bad, and watched the first season again over the last two days. It was interesting to see how the early incarnation of the characters differed from what they became (Jesse isn't nearly as sympathetic as he becomes at the end). I'd also forgotten how funny it was at times (i.e. Walt & Jesse cooking in the basement of Jesse's house while his realtor is holding an open house at the same time). I also thought Hector made his appearance in S1, but I guess I was wrong.

And that is the reason I liked the early seasons of Breaking Bad over the later seasons. It lost all its humor and became way too dark.

tgb wrote:For some reason I got the urge to revisit Breaking Bad, and watched the first season again over the last two days. It was interesting to see how the early incarnation of the characters differed from what they became (Jesse isn't nearly as sympathetic as he becomes at the end). I'd also forgotten how funny it was at times (i.e. Walt & Jesse cooking in the basement of Jesse's house while his realtor is holding an open house at the same time). I also thought Hector made his appearance in S1, but I guess I was wrong.

We're doing a re-watch of Breaking Bad and sometimes the timelines get a little confusing when we watch BB 3-4 nights in a row, then a Better Call Saul then right back to BB. It wasn't so bad when we were working through season 1 but now that Mike and Gus are in both shows it can be confusing.

I just caught up on the last two episodes. Fantastic stuff.

Howard saw right through Jimmy and what's crazy is that Jimmy probably believed he was doing it for the seniors. Watching Howard cut Chuck a personal check was awesome too. Chuck realized that Howard was indeed doing this to save the firm that he and Chuck built. He realized that he had indeed become too great a liability for the firm. And then Howard gives an embarrassing send off just to say "screw you" to Chuck. Both guys were placed in bad positions, but I gotta side with Howard.

How painful was it to watch Nacho tell his father to go along with the bad guys? Nacho knew he was ruining this man and also ruining his relationship, but he would rather that than see his father dead.

So Chuck went all Gene Hackman like we knew he would. Hopefully he doesn't die in that fire though. I do not want to see him off the show.
When he told Jimmy he was never that important to him, or whatever extremely hurtful thing he said, I don't think he meant it. He hates Jimmy and wanted to say something that would be final to get him out of his life. This did have a profound effect on Jimmy though. He realized he does hurt anyone he contacts and is trying to make things right. That's going to last about 36 hours.

So why did Gus try to save Hector? Was it just so he could have the satisfaction of killing him? Was it "you're not going to die that easily"?

A great send off to season 3. I have to wonder if Chuck's fate will strip Jimmy of his sudden realization of the harm he does. Or if that event is yet to come.

And yeah, Howard is still one of the few decent people on the show. Well, other than his treatment of Kim, that is. He definitely has more integrity than most of them, at least.

As for Gus' actions, I don't think he had much of a choice. A high up Cartel lawyer was standing right there. Gus is playing the long game of revenge. He can't afford to arouse suspicion.

You think Gus would have been under suspicion if Hector died? The lawyer saw Hector go apoplectic and collapse, so I don't see how that would ever be on Gus. His reaction seemed reflexive though and I don't think he was thinking far ahead. Or am I forgetting something? I didn't think Gus had spoken to Nacho about the pills. That was just Nacho and Mike, right? I think Gus put 2+2 together when he saw Nacho hand the paramedic a bottle of pills that Gus knew had been empty a few minutes earlier.

Poor Chuck though. He has nothing. No friends. No family. And now he doesn't even have the law. He can't really entertain himself because of his illness, so his life is going to be shut inside the house and pretty much reading. What else can he do if he has no friends or family to talk to and no ability to leave his house?

McNutt wrote:You think Gus would have been under suspicion if Hector died? The lawyer saw Hector go apoplectic and collapse, so I don't see how that would ever be on Gus.

Gus needs to ingratiate himself to the Cartel in order to get where he needs to be. He's establishing himself as someone they can trust. I think it's perfectly reasonable that he'd attempt to save Hector.

I don't believe Gus knows about Nacho's plans. But let's face it: Gus is ninety eight steps ahead of almost everyone but Mike on this show. He's the Moriarty of the Breaking Bad-verse.

Hector is a loose canon though and I'd think having him around would pose a more significant risk to Gus' plans than having him die with Gus looking completely innocent.

My favorite Gus moment from the previous episode was when I told Mike "I would never take money from your family."

Giancarlo Esposito was on Fresh Air the other day. I love that guy.

Yeah, you could almost see the moment in his face when Gus realized he had a way to get Mike onto his team...and inspire loyalty in him at the same time. Hector's men fear him, but Gus' people love him. That makes him far more dangerous...and smarter...than Hector will ever be.

My favorite Gus moment from the previous episode was when I told Mike "I would never take money from your family."

Wait...YOU'RE GUS!?

Never rush to submit a post before a meeting.

I was thinking that if Chuck survives he's going to be in the hospital for a long time. He's more sensitive the electronic waves (or whatever he thinks is wrong with him now) than ever before and real or not it's causing extreme pain. Being in a hospital would be like a nightmare that doesn't end. I don't know if he could ever go back to a functional state after that.

I think Chuck's story arc

I like the new Kim - lounging in her PJ's watching DVD's all day - that's what I plan to start doing any day now.

I still don't get them. Are they a couple? I thought there was something said in the last episode that she was in "their" house.

They're definitely a couple but until the last episode it seemed less serious.

I can't remember - is it possible the thing drawing power at Chuck's place was something Jimmy had Mike install when scoping the place?

I was thinking it was either the doorbell or the phone line.

Here are my thoughts about what is going to happen to Chuck:

Chuck has accepted that he is crazy. He either knows the allergy is in his head or he thinks it's real but feels that his inability to cope with is a sign of mental illness.

He has destroyed his house and that is something he can't hide. He's going to be committed and it will be hell for him. He is staging the fire to burn the evidence that he is crazy. He'll have to go somewhere else, but he might be able to go to a place that isn't going to surround himself with electronics.

If this is true though, how is Chuck going to handle knowing he committed a felony?

McNutt wrote:Here are my thoughts about what is going to happen to Chuck:

If this is true though, how is Chuck going to handle knowing he committed a felony?

I would be very surprised if Chuck survives the fire. I think that's the last we'll see of Chuck.

He is staging the fire to burn the evidence that he is crazy.

They ran the number for the national suicide prevention hotline in the credits for a reason. He wasn't burning evidence, he was burning himself.

McNutt seems to be in denial.

Chuck's dead, my man. Chuck's dead.

Exodor wrote: They ran the number for the national suicide prevention hotline in the credits for a reason. He wasn't burning evidence, he was burning himself.

They did? Damn.

Captain Caveman wrote:McNutt seems to be in denial.

Chuck's dead, my man. Chuck's dead.

Maybe that will drive Jimmy to officially change his name to Saul.

Jaymann wrote:

Captain Caveman wrote:McNutt seems to be in denial.

Chuck's dead, my man. Chuck's dead.

Maybe that will drive Jimmy to officially change his name to Saul.

His transformation won't be complete until he loses Kim. (You know it's coming, one way or another.)

Season 3 is now on Netflix.

better question.... when is the next season coming out. It's been a while...

naednek wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:19 am better question.... when is the next season coming out. It's been a while...

This fall.

Just announced to return on August 6th. We've missed you Jimmy!

YESSSSSS!!!

Once again, Howard proves that he is the only good person on the show.

The more I think about that ending the more I realize just how bad Jimmy is.

I'm not going to use spoiler tags because you shouldn't be reading this if you haven't seen the show, but. . . SPOILER

Jimmy has often hurt people because he doesn't see what his actions will do to those people. We keep hoping that Jimmy isn't as bad as we fear and write it off to "he meant well" or "he didn't know it would hurt that person like it did." But what he did to Howard in that episode; that seemed over the line, even for Jimmy.

Howard is a mess after Chuck died. He feels that Chuck killed himself over Howard's actions. Jimmy knows better. Jimmy knows that Chuck was destroyed by Jimmy's betrayal. He's wrestling with the guilt of knowing that his brother had all of life's joy publicly beaten from him by Jimmy. Jimmy was in a tight spot and sacrificed his brother to save himself.

So what does Jimmy do? He tells Howard that Chuck's death was Howard's "cross to bear." Jimmy didn't have to deflect blame back onto Howard. It didn't benefit him at all to do so. It was just him being cruel for cruelty's sake.

McNutt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:30 amIt was just him being cruel for cruelty's sake.

I don't agree with this at all. Up until the moment of Howard's revelation, Jimmy was feeling all of the same things. He knew that Chuck had intentionally started the fire and burned himself to death, and he knew that it was ultimately his fault.

Even when Howard specifically tells him the trigger (the insurance issue, which was entirely Jimmy's doing), there's a moment where we are led to believe that now that Jimmy has the specific thing that he did to cause Chuck's actions (when Jimmy asked again about the insurance issue). But at the same time, Howard gave Jimmy a get out jail free card. Because Howard was taking responsibility for causing the situation, Jimmy didn't have to.

I didn't see it as Jimmy intentionally being cruel to Howard simply for the sake of cruelty. I saw him being cruel to Howard as collateral damage for him shifting responsibility off of himself (as he always does).

Jimmy is a thoroughly shitty human being, but it's rarely born out of malice. It's almost always born out of his inability to deal with the consequences of his own misguided actions.

But Jimmy shifting the blame to Howard was completely unnecessary. He could have said "It's okay. Chuck had too many issues and you can't blame yourself." But he went the cruel route and made Howard feel worse. How did that benefit Jimmy? Howard blamed himself for Chuck's suicide, so Jimmy didn't need to shift the blame. It was a horrible thing to do.

Ah, but he offered fresh coffee!

McNutt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:49 amBut Jimmy shifting the blame to Howard was completely unnecessary.

Unnecessary to us because we don't have a need for it to not be our fault. Jimmy does have a need for it to not be his fault. As soon as he saw the opportunity, he took it, and immediately felt better.

Edit: OF COURSE it was a horrible thing to do - but I don't believe that's why Jimmy did it. I believe that Jimmy did it because he's selfish and incapable of taking responsibility. I don't think the cruelty of what he did occurs to him at all.

I guess I didn't see it as him feeling any relief in Howard taking responsibility. Jimmy still knows that he himself drove Chuck to suicide, so blaming Howard was just for show. Maybe it did make Jimmy feel better. I have trouble wrapping my head around that mentality.

McNutt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:40 pm I guess I didn't see it as him feeling any relief in Howard taking responsibility. Jimmy still knows that he himself drove Chuck to suicide, so blaming Howard was just for show. Maybe it did make Jimmy feel better. I have trouble wrapping my head around that mentality.

It seemed clear to me that Jimmy's demeanor totally changed once he mentally pushed responsibility for Chucks' death onto Howard - he hopped off the couch and started whistling while making coffee while Kim looked on in disgust.

Exodor wrote: ↑Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:54 pm It seemed clear to me that Jimmy's demeanor totally changed once he mentally pushed responsibility for Chucks' death onto Howard - he hopped off the couch and started whistling while making coffee while Kim looked on in disgust.

That's how I interpreted it as well.

Jimmy able to rationalize away, or at least minimize or share the burden of his own part in Chuck's death via Howard's admission makes sense for his character. If he were saddled with a fully functional conscience, he'd have been far more remorseful about his actions as a con man back in Chicago. He can love, he can mourn, but at the end of the day, he can't ever fully accept that he's the cause of any of the bad things that happen to the people around him.

Even if Jimmy is relieved to get that guilt off his shoulders, he says something only designed to make Howard feel worse. I'm trying to read the mind of a sociopath and I can't.

Removing guilt - that fits Jimmy's character
Intentionally making someone feel absolutely terrible - not Jimmy's character. Howard has already accepted the blame. Why twist the knife?