Octopus Overlords

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:30 am Another preview of the Army Painter's version of Contrast Paints. This is the first I've heard the price mentioned - about 50% cheaper than Contrast - which is kind of important.

I stumbled into this video earlier today before I saw your post. It's exactly why I'm waiting until early next year to get heavier into mini painting. My FLGS says February for the Speed Paints.

Those look so much like Hot Wheels that it is ridiculous. NICELY DONE!

Fardaza wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:55 pm I stumbled into this video earlier today before I saw your post. It's exactly why I'm waiting until early next year to get heavier into mini painting. My FLGS says February for the Speed Paints.

The one thing she mentioned that I'd never heard of before was adding glaze medium to some of the GW Contrast paints (the thicker ones) to help with their flow. I might actually give it a try. But yeah, I'm definitely interested in this Army Painter stuff as well. The contrast paints that work great, are fantastic, But as noted earlier, some of them seem really wonky in application.

Zombicide 2E Core set figures complete. Also have 4 walkers and 4 fatties done, but I'll save those for a mass zombie pic.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:31 pm Army Painter finally releasing something to compete with the GW Contrast Paints. I really like Army Painter and had been using them pretty much exclusively. And while I like Contrast Paints, I do agree with his observation in this video that there are definitely inconsistencies in the paints - some work really great, others I've questioned the paint (did I mix it enough?) or the mini (is it primed correctly? Is it not textured enough?) enough to consider these:



While I doubt it's the "death of contrast paints", it would be nice to have more competition and choices.

I just saw the AP Speedpaint starter set in a distributor catalog: $45 for a set of 10 colors. That's quite a bit cheaper than Contrast paints.

Yeah, the prices do look great. I saw my "local" online store selling a set, allegedly shipping in February.

Smoove_B wrote:Yeah, the prices do look great. I saw my "local" online store selling a set, allegedly shipping in February.

I’ve placed an order for the full set at my FLGS.

Army Painter's website says to pre-order your sets through your FLGS. My local (40 miles away) store says they're not taking pre-orders because their distributor hasn't told them they can.

Hmm...Maybe I should check with the stores that are about 55 miles away.

Might I humbly suggest Atomic Empire? I have used them in the past and would recommend.

Fardaza wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 12:06 am Army Painter's website says to pre-order your sets through your FLGS.

I love when companies assume that everybody lives near a physical store. Some game publishers go so far as to limit online sales to promote local stores.

My nearest 'FLGS' is a 120 mile round trip. The nearest store that actually has a painting selection is well over 200.

I think in this day and age, the “local” in FLGS doesn’t really mean physically close anymore. You can preorder the paint set from just about any store with an online presence, I’m betting.

hepcat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 9:18 am I think in this day and age, the “local” in FLGS doesn’t really mean physically close anymore. You can preorder the paint set from just about any store with an online presence, I’m betting.

No doubt (unlike the aforementioned publisher's games.) I was just blowing off steam - when you live in the middle of nowhere without any real access, you start to notice just how much companies are built around the assumption that their customers are urban. Internet retail does make it easier, but after a while it still starts to get really frustrating - there's a really good chance that any time you see or hear about something cool, you're going to be excluded, or have to jump through hoops. My favorites are when I see a trailer and get excited, then hear, "Coming to select theaters." Or a commercial includes, "Available in some locations."

So I vent. There isn't much else I can do.

On the plus side though, it’s probably pretty relaxing in the Outback!

hepcat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 10:07 am On the plus side though, it’s probably pretty relaxing in the Outback!

Everything here is venomous. By which I mean the stupid people.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 12:14 am Might I humbly suggest Atomic Empire? I have used them in the past and would recommend.

Their brick and mortar store is about 10 minutes away from me and I second this - they are fantastic all around.

hepcat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 10:07 am On the plus side though, it’s probably pretty relaxing in the Outback!

It is very relaxing and peaceful around here! Beats the heck out of southern California.

In progress…

I’m back to hating my airbrush again.

Clogging?

Blackhawk wrote:Clogging?

Yeah. Terribly. I’m going to try soaking all of the parts in some Simple Green. See if that does the trick.

If you aren't, make sure you are running a brush soaked in alcohol (or whatever cleaner) through the body of it, too.

hentzau wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:08 am

Blackhawk wrote:Clogging?

Yeah. Terribly. I’m going to try soaking all of the parts in some Simple Green. See if that does the trick.

Have you soaked your parts in 90% alcohol? That is what I use at the end of several session or one long session. It works like a charm. Anything less than 90% doesn't cut it, in my opinion.

Also, invest in some Golden Airbrush medium. After getting that, I haven't had nearly the same amount of clogging as I did.

I had several good sessions in a row where I would be doing really well with the airbrush. Simple stuff, using vallejo model air paints, but after a couple of sessions I needed to break down the airbrush and clean it out. Next session I had nothing but troubles, broke it down, cleaned it again. Tried again, worked kind of sporadically until it finally stopped working.

I've been thinning my normal paints using Liquitex airbrush medium, but I guess I'm still not getting it thinned down enough. I'm also nervous every time I do a complete break down of the airbrush, because I've broken off the tip before and trashed an airbrush that way.

I generally run alcohol (90%) through it after every color, then break it down for a full cleaning after each session. The times I've suddenly started having problems with clogging or weird spray was always a cleaning problem, usually paint stuck in one of the nozzles (my nozzle has three parts) that I missed), or paint stuck on the needle.

I finished my Final Girl killers and I am very happy with the results. These are a smaller scale than I am used to with Shadows of Brimstone, so they were faster but also challenged my brush control. Hans and Dr. Fright were largely Zenithal shading and contrast paints, Inkanyamba and Gepetto were total brush, and the Poltergeist was mostly airbrush with brush detailing.

Now on to the heroines.

I'm getting perfectionist's block again, bad. I don't want to paint if I don't think I'll get it right, so I don't paint. At all.

I'm tempted to just pick a game with lots of minis, skip most of the mold line removeal, and paint the entire thing with just contrast paints. Just to teach myself a lesson about the difference between getting it done right and not getting anything done at all.

Why not post some of your pics in here BH?

Daehawk wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:12 pm Why not post some of your pics in here BH?

I have. Dozens of 'em. I just haven't painted much in the past year. And by 'much', I mean 'at all.' I haven't touched a brush since at least April or May, probably earlier. My last post was last December.

Steam launch just about finished. Need to add some rust and weathering.

Blackhawk wrote:I'm getting perfectionist's block again, bad. I don't want to paint if I don't think I'll get it right, so I don't paint. At all.

I'm tempted to just pick a game with lots of minis, skip most of the mold line removeal, and paint the entire thing with just contrast paints. Just to teach myself a lesson about the difference between getting it done right and not getting anything done at all.

If you look at my Hans (pig guy) and Dr. Fright (pitchfork), they were 90% contrast paint with minor detailing by regular brush technique. Almost no drybrushing, no shader/Nuln oil needed. I added some TurboDork shiny/color shift paint to Dr. Fright to give him a “dreamlike” look. They took about 1 - 1.5 hours each.

Gepetto (tophat) and Inkayamba (mask) took longer - about 5 hours total. Yes, I think they look better and both are more complicated. But they don’t look that much better than the contrast ones.

Pick a game with smaller minis. They go faster.

My normal is about 6+ hours per mini.

Blackhawk wrote:My normal is about 6+ hours per mini.

Before contrast paint and my airbrush, I was probably close to that. Also, I got a little burned out on Shadows of Brimstone minis, since they are larger.

And my paddle wheeler…

Very well done!

Purchased new brushes. I’m going to give paining another go on some board game minis for descent, middara and a few others, dagnabit. Hopefully this time I don’t run out of steam after a half dozen or so.

hepcat wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:44 am paining

Sometimes it feels that way.

Typos and not knowing what year it is will be the death of me.

edit: I have about 3 of the main characters from Descent Legends of the Dark done, and 3 wolves. The other main characters have been started. They aren't great, but I think they're perfectly fine for a board game. They certainly look infinitely better than just gray.

I'm using the contrast paints so I don't have to go back and do washes/highlights (for the most part). The real godsend has been Hentzau's suggestion a while back that I get myself some wrathbone white in a pot and use that to "white out" mistakes so I can go back and fix them with the contrasts. These paints do NOT go well over each other otherwise.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:10 pm I'm getting perfectionist's block again, bad. I don't want to paint if I don't think I'll get it right, so I don't paint. At all.

I'm tempted to just pick a game with lots of minis, skip most of the mold line removal, and paint the entire thing with just contrast paints. Just to teach myself a lesson about the difference between getting it done right and not getting anything done at all.

So, I'm attempting to address this. I'm doing a set of miniatures way below my standards on purpose. I thought about what to do it with, and decided that I'd be more comfortable going with a board game than with RPG minis. I looked through my board games with a few criteria:

• 1. Simple minis that would require a ton of elaborate planning, but that aren't all identical
  2. Minis without too much canon tied to them so that I wouldn't be concerned with matching the art perfectly
  3. Minis that aren't associated with one of the games that I really want to nail to paintjob on (like Core Space.)
  4. Well-cast minis that wouldn't require a ton of prep

I settled on Zombicide: Rue Morgue. I'm just focusing on the zombies, skipping the survivors for this project. They hit all of the criteria better than anything else I had. They're simple, but have room for differentiation with the clothing. The art for them is limited and vague, and they don't seem to have a lot of story tied to them. It's a game I want to play, but not a 'showpiece' that I want to just sit and look at. And the minis were all fairly clean out of the box.

I spent a few minutes here and there cleaning any obviously problematic mold lines, mostly lines over smooth areas. I didn't try to get them perfect, and spent maybe 30 seconds per mini. I washed them all last night.

I just got done priming them. Blech. In addition to the Zombicide zombies, I primed a eight or nine Bones zombies I'd gotten cleaned up previously. I also grabbed a few other minis that I knew were prepped and cleaned. I usually do that to avoid wasting any extra primer left in the airbrush - I'll just prime other pieces until I run out. In all, I just zenithal primed 80 miniatures. That's probably triple the most I'd ever done at once before. And I'd rather not do that many again. Setup, priming, and cleanup took three hours. Blech.

Next I'll go at the zombies with Contrast paint. When Contrast paint first hit, I did an experiment with a barbarian in which I painted the entire piece in five to ten minutes (not counting drying time.) I'll be going with something like that. Contrast base, contrast accent, maybe a basic highlight, maybe a glaze. I'll probably do them in groups of 8 (in other words, groups of identical pieces.)

What you're attempting it pretty close to what I do when I have a large batch to paint. I'll go into "assembly line" mode with multiple identical figures and just pick something - skin, hair, an article of clothing, and just do the same spot one after the other. Rinse, repeat until they're all done.

I have personally learned one trick to hack my brain with the last few batches of figures I've done. I realized a lot of my perfectionism came from wanting to get every item on a figure "right" before moving on to the next item. So for instance, making sure that belt buckle was perfect before painting the knife sheath.

Instead, I started just making sure I had paint on everything first, without much worry about sloppiness or detail. Then going back and cleaning up the figure as a whole. I know that sounds a bit like Painting 101, but I've literally never worked that way and it was causing me to spend inordinate amounts of time on minis that I didn't need to spend.

I think it's just how my mind works. It's the same with writing - I find it difficult to finish short stories because I want to edit every paragraph multiple times before moving on. When what I need to be doing is just getting the whole story down, and then worry about the re-writes.

I have that problem, too. It's one I've worked to avoid, but it isn't the thing that's really causing me problems. My problem (from my always-entertaining brain's perspective) goes like this:

Core Space Purge:
I get Core Space. This thing looks awesome! I really want to nail the paintjob on these minis. They all have painted armor, including white and red, two colors that are notoriously difficult to shade/highlight well. And in order to get these things looking the way I want, I need to nail the shading and highlighting. Getting the highlights and shadows in exactly the right spots has always been a weakness of mine that I've wanted to correct, and I really need to correct it before I try these.

So I look into it.

There is remarkably little guidance from miniature painting sources. "Put the highlights where the light would hit." "Paint on the shadows where they'd occur naturally." None of that helps figure out just where they're supposed to be. It's one of those cases where people assume that everyone else either has the same training they do, or the same natural instinct for this. It's kind of like the idiotic 'thin your paint until it's like milk' guidance - what kind of milk, and how is skim milk different than water? Vague, subjective, and useless in practice.

So I look elsewhere. It turns out that determining where to place highlights, what shape they should be, and what color to make them (and shadows.) Awesome, that's just what I need. So, where do I learn this?

Well, it's part of learning lighting for artists. And lighting is taught along with color. And the prerequisite for learning both color and lighting is learning value and volume. Value and volume are learned by drawing. So now, I'm looking at learning drawing, then volumes, then value, then color, then lighting. And I fully realize how much better my minis would be if I did so. But I also realize that I've just set myself up for years of intensive study before I paint them. It's more than I want to bite off. So instead of doing the smart thing and A) getting a few pointers from a few of the books, even I don't fully understand them, B) applying those pointers and improving over time with practice, I see that I can't get to where I want to be, so I don't start.

I can't get them to my own standards, and I really don't want to mess them up, so I don't even try to paint them. Imperfectly painted miniatures still look far better than unpainted miniatures, and yet I let my brain is convince me to choose unpainted.



I hate my brain. It's pretty much a textbook example of maladaptive perfectionism. I set unrealistically high standards, and when I realize I can't reach them, I avoid doing whatever it is entirely in order to avoid failing to achieve those standards.

And so with this experiment, I'm forcing myself to fail to meet my standards to hopefully get it through my thick skull that setting my sights on perfect means getting no results, while good results are better than no results - and are, frankly, good enough. Now, if I can just work through why I'm so insistent on perfection in the first place, I might get somewhere...