Good news, everyone! Netflix jacking prices again!

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:58 am

Looks as if they're retaining the good brand name for streaming and trying hard to associate the lame brand name with DVD-by-mail so that when that service inevitably goes belly up, it'll be "Qwikster" that died, not "Netflix". Of course, they'll continue to milk it for as long as possible.

The inclusion of games in "Qwikster" and the connotations of that name show their real fear in the disc space: Redbox, which is (a) already game-inclusive, and (b) much quicker than a two- or three-day wait for an envelope.

Bakhtosh · Post by **Bakhtosh** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:00 am

Hamlet3145 wrote:Holy crap. They are panicking.

I throw up in my mouth a little bit as I type this but "SyFy" may, possibly, be a less lame name than "Qwickster."

Wow...that's just awful.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:05 am

I think a huge part of this are the prices the content companies want to charge are changing dramatically for streaming, and may go in a different direction for rentals.

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theohall · Post by **theohall** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:02 am

The flaw with RedBox - limited selection. You can't get many TV series that Netflix - oops, Qwikster

- offers.

While RedBox has the $1 thing, the selection for someone who is still catching up on 18 years worth of tv and movies sucks. Qwikster has so much stuff, I almost never have to worry about something not being available.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:57 am

theohall wrote:The flaw with RedBox - limited selection. You can't get many TV series that Netflix - oops, Qwikster - offers.

While RedBox has the $1 thing, the selection for someone who is still catching up on 18 years worth of tv and movies sucks. Qwikster has so much stuff, I almost never have to worry about something not being available.

Wow, you adapt fast.

I've already dropped DVD service, so this change doesn't affect me. The only question will be whether or not Netflix can keep my business by offering enough of the content I want for me to justify their cost.

I will say that if I were still a DVD and Streaming customer, this change, on top of the price increase, would tick me off. One of the nice, convenient things about Netflix was that everything was in one place, and that ratings and suggestions for movies applied equally to both media.

As a streaming-only customer, though, I may actually prefer it this way, assuming that the new "Netflix" streaming-only website lists only those titles that are available for streaming, so I don't have to sift through all the DVD-only stuff to find the more limited selection of stuff that's actually available to me. I'll have to wait and see.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:59 am

In addition to a tiny selection, Redbox is far less convenient, and, AFAIK, has late fees.

Also, if you regularly watch DVDs, netflix... uh, Qwickster is cheaper.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:01 am

Hamlet3145 wrote: I throw up in my mouth a little bit as I type this but "SyFy" may, possibly, be a less lame name than "Qwickster."

No, it's really not. You cannot possibly get more lame than "SyFy", even if you injured both of it's legs.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:05 am

Odin wrote:
I will say that if I were still a DVD and Streaming customer, this change, on top of the price increase, would tick me off. One of the nice, convenient things about Netflix was that everything was in one place, and that ratings and suggestions for movies applied equally to both media.

This is true.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:44 am

Odin wrote:
theohall wrote:The flaw with RedBox - limited selection. You can't get many TV series that Netflix - oops, Qwikster - offers.

While RedBox has the $1 thing, the selection for someone who is still catching up on 18 years worth of tv and movies sucks. Qwikster has so much stuff, I almost never have to worry about something not being available.
Wow, you adapt fast.

I dropped the streaming when they switched earlier, because the DVD selection offers everything available on streaming and the streaming selection is going to shrink very soon with the content providers all wanting to start their own thing, instead of selling rights to Netflix.

Completely agreed on the suggestions and ratings thing.

rshetts2 · Post by **rshetts2** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:09 am

Reed Hastings ( netflix CEO ) offered up a public apology in his blog last nite, stating he "messed up" and "slid into arrogance" in dealing with customers and the recent price change. He then went on to explain their plans for splitting off the dvd service from Netflix completely. Now the DVD service will be its own entity called Qwikster. It will have its own web site and wont be linked or connected to Netflix in anyway, thus there will be no joint or interacting queues. Are they trying to totally divest themselves of the dvd by mail service or is this just an adjustment to the realities of the future of digital distribution? Whatever is going on here, theres definitely a tough road ahead for Netflix.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:13 am

rshetts2 wrote:Reed Hastings ( netflix CEO ) offered up a public apology in his blog last nite, stating he "messed up" and "slid into arrogance" in dealing with customers and the recent price change. He then went on to explain their plans for splitting off the dvd service from Netflix completely. Now the DVD service will be its own entity called Qwikster. It will have its own web site and wont be linked or connected to Netflix in anyway, thus there will be no joint or interacting queues. Are they trying to totally divest themselves of the dvd by mail service or is this just an adjustment to the realities of the future of digital distribution? Whatever is going on here, theres definitely a tough road ahead for Netflix.

All true. Welcome to the bottom of page 4.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:13 am

theohall wrote:
Odin wrote:
theohall wrote:The flaw with RedBox - limited selection. You can't get many TV series that Netflix - oops, Qwikster - offers.

While RedBox has the $1 thing, the selection for someone who is still catching up on 18 years worth of tv and movies sucks. Qwikster has so much stuff, I almost never have to worry about something not being available.
Wow, you adapt fast.
I dropped the streaming when they switched earlier, because the DVD selection offers everything available on streaming and the streaming selection is going to shrink very soon with the content providers all wanting to start their own thing, instead of selling rights to Netflix.

Completely agreed on the suggestions and ratings thing.

I was mostly referring to the fact that you'd already adopted the brand-new Qwikster name.

Fitzy · Post by **Fitzy** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:14 am

Oooo games.

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:21 am

hope the games works well, gamefly is too slow.

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:25 am

I keep thinking Napster.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:45 am

naednek wrote:hope the games works well, gamefly is too slow.

What's everyone's guess on the game rental cost? I don't see it being less than a $10 surcharge, I'd place my bet closer to $15, and (the way they've behaved this year) I wouldn't be shocked at all if it cost $20 extra a month.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:46 am

Odin wrote:
rshetts2 wrote:Reed Hastings ( netflix CEO ) offered up a public apology in his blog last nite, stating he "messed up" and "slid into arrogance" in dealing with customers and the recent price change. He then went on to explain their plans for splitting off the dvd service from Netflix completely. Now the DVD service will be its own entity called Qwikster. It will have its own web site and wont be linked or connected to Netflix in anyway, thus there will be no joint or interacting queues. Are they trying to totally divest themselves of the dvd by mail service or is this just an adjustment to the realities of the future of digital distribution? Whatever is going on here, theres definitely a tough road ahead for Netflix.
All true. Welcome to the bottom of page 4.

It's possible that only certain people can see my posts.

When I posted last night that this was the most ridiculous thing I'd seen, I wasn't referring just to the Qwikster name (though that is ridiculous. I was more taken aback by the fact that this is such a bad move for customer convenience. In the past, Netflix has had an almost tunnel-vision-like focus on making sure every move they made was a positive for its customers (recent price hike excepted, natch).

I get that dividing the revenue streams is important for Netflix going forward, but dual billing? Loss of essentially all site functionality consistency between streaming and DVD? An apology / explanation email that starts out purporting to explain the price changes, but doesn't actually discuss the reasoning behind the price changes? Just seems very un-Netflix.

I'm sticking with them on my streaming plan, as I do think I still get enough value out of it and I view Netflix as the most promising candidate to lead the push to a less horrid dichotomy between the streaming/circular disc landscapes (with Amazon and Apple right behind them). But this blog post certainly didn't push me deeper into the Netflix camp.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:50 am

Gah. Worserer and worserer. We had two video places in town, both local, family operated stores. About five years ago we had one of the national chains open here and promptly drive both of the local places out of business. They then celebrated their victory by going belly up and leaving us without any movie/game rental places.

Between that and the godawful cable lineup Comcast gives to tiny towns, Netflix has been a godsend. Netflix going to hell is a miserable thing for me.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:52 am

wonderpug wrote:
naednek wrote:hope the games works well, gamefly is too slow.
What's everyone's guess on the game rental cost? I don't see it being less than a $10 surcharge, I'd place my bet closer to $15, and (the way they've behaved this year) I wouldn't be shocked at all if it cost $20 extra a month.

One game a month at Gamefly is $15.95, so I can't see Netflix going much above that, unless they're going to guarantee better availability and faster turnaround.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:53 am

dbt1949 wrote:I keep thinking Napster.

No, you keep thinking "nap", grandpa.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:02 am

That blows, Blackhawk. I think it kind of reflects the problem for most everyone - we all know how much great stuff there is out there to watch. We know that there are multiple delivery channels that can and do work. Streaming video, DVD by mail, DVD by carryout, and cable TV all work fine. So when the owners/operators of one or more of those channels drop the ball and either refuse to deliver the content, or put themselves out of business failing to deliver the content, or make it too challenging to get the content you want, it leaves everybody saying, "Hey, I know you have what I want, and I'm willing to pay you a reasonable price to get it. Why won't you just get it to me so we can do business?"

This will all sort itself out at some point, I presume, but it's going to suck for the next few years while everybody tries to figure out the best way to get their beaks wet.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:06 am

If services like Blockbuster streaming, Vudu and Zune marketplace made their rentals competitive in price with redbox's dollar rentals, I could see netflix streaming dying off entirely someday in the not too distant future.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:22 am

The big advantage Netflix has, for me at least, is the integrated console support. With Netflix, I can turn on the 360, choose the show, and hit 'play'. I can't exactly gather the family around the computer.

Freezer-TPF- · Post by **Freezer-TPF-** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:34 am

I like how I can save something in my DVD queue and it will automagically show up in my Instant queue when it becomes available via streaming. I wonder how they will handle that if they split DVDs into a different website. I guess Instant needs its own "save for later" function for titles that are not yet available to stream. Maybe they've done that already--I haven't looked at the actual site in a while.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:47 am

Freezer-TPF- wrote:I guess Instant needs its own "save for later" function for titles that are not yet available to stream. Maybe they've done that already--I haven't looked at the actual site in a while.

There's nothing like that right now, but I don't think they've made any changes to netflix.com yet. It still looks the same as it ever did to me. Possibly they'll add a feature like that when the employees of "Netflix" are focused exclusively on streaming.

I'll admit, there's an opportunity here for the newly-refocused Netflix to get better because they're free to focus on their single mission - streaming content. Likewise to Quikster, who might be able to do something significant with DVD delivery without having any obligation to worry about streaming.

If I read the CEO's message correctly, I'm interpreting this as a corporate split, where they'll each be separate companies. I'm not sure that's right. But if it is, then each would now negotiate separately with the license holders, which could possibly work out well. The license-holders would lose the leverage to say, "pay through the nose for this or we'll yank streaming." It'll at least be interesting to see what happens.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:51 am

Freezer-TPF- wrote:I like how I can save something in my DVD queue and it will automagically show up in my Instant queue when it becomes available via streaming. I wonder how they will handle that if they split DVDs into a different website. I guess Instant needs its own "save for later" function for titles that are not yet available to stream. Maybe they've done that already--I haven't looked at the actual site in a while.

They just changed part of that last week unfortunately. I used to use my stream instantly queue as a kind of "I want to watch this movie eventually" spot (whether via streaming on Netflix, or cable, etc), but with the most recent change, any title that is unavailable, even temporarily, is removed from your queue (whereas before it was just shown as unavailable).

Link: http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/18/netf ... rom-saved/" target="_blank

Also, this name change move, ESPECIALLY the separate ratings functions move, is to me, very obviously a FOR SALE sign, contrary to what Hastings says. He's smart to move on knowing that "old fogey" (his words) discs are not the future of media.

And I find it ironic that they are now scrambling to get to where Blockbuster has been for years now...with game rentals, (and NO additional fee, you Netflix jackasses...you are going to "extra fee" yourself right out of my budget if you aren't careful, with your ridiculous extra Blu Ray fee as well)

I finally decided I will be canceling my current DVD rental with Netflix and just stay with streaming (for now). If BB (really, Dish Network), decides they want to compete (again) in this space, I think now is the time to step up while Netflix has a black eye or two.

$5 a month for the ability to get a Blu Ray movie OR PS3 game is perfect for me...considering the small amount I watch/play.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:00 am

pr0ner wrote:
wonderpug wrote:
naednek wrote:hope the games works well, gamefly is too slow.
What's everyone's guess on the game rental cost? I don't see it being less than a $10 surcharge, I'd place my bet closer to $15, and (the way they've behaved this year) I wouldn't be shocked at all if it cost $20 extra a month.
One game a month at Gamefly is $15.95, so I can't see Netflix going much above that, unless they're going to guarantee better availability and faster turnaround.

Ah, but Qwikster already believes they are offering a fair price for their wide selection of movies. Gamefly just has games. I mean, Qwikster already charges 30% more or whatever for blu-ray movies, which cost ~30% more to purchase retail. Games cost 200% more than DVDs.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:16 am

Carpet_pissr wrote:Also, this name change move, ESPECIALLY the separate ratings functions move, is to me, very obviously a FOR SALE sign, contrary to what Hastings says. He's smart to move on knowing that "old fogey" (his words) discs are not the future of media.

I keep seeing this, but who offers older DVDs to rent these days for those who want to watch older shows/movies that are not available via streaming, unless you have Movie Channel umpty-squat as part of your satellite/cable deal?

I don't know of another service with comparable pricing - outside the disappearing brick and mortar stores - which allows me to rent Deadwood, Rome, or pretty much any other old HBO series.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:21 am

theohall wrote:I don't know of another service with comparable pricing - outside the disappearing brick and mortar stores - which allows me to rent Deadwood, Rome, or pretty much any other old HBO series.

Our local library has quite a selection, but demand is high so the waiting is a bit longer. Also, over the course of my DVD subscription with Netflix, I might have received a single disc that was unreadable because of a scratch or crack. Apparently the savages in my part of the state don't know how to handle DVDs properly as they're frequently coated with fingerprints and scuff marks.

We pay about $150 a year in taxes to fund our local libraries, so whether or not that's comparable I can't really say. I can get up to 10 DVDs for 7 days each. I just did a quick search and they have 7 sets of the entire Deadwood series available. YMMV.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:25 am

theohall wrote:
Carpet_pissr wrote:Also, this name change move, ESPECIALLY the separate ratings functions move, is to me, very obviously a FOR SALE sign, contrary to what Hastings says. He's smart to move on knowing that "old fogey" (his words) discs are not the future of media.
I keep seeing this, but who offers older DVDs to rent these days for those who want to watch older shows/movies that are not available via streaming, unless you have Movie Channel umpty-squat as part of your satellite/cable deal?

I don't know of another service with comparable pricing - outside the disappearing brick and mortar stores - which allows me to rent Deadwood, Rome, or pretty much any other old HBO series.

http://www.blockbuster.com/browse/catal ... ils/256791" target="_blank
http://www.blockbuster.com/browse/catal ... ils/284927" target="_blank
http://www.blockbuster.com/browse/catal ... ils/220372" target="_blank

Also, this is not a short term thing, but long term, discs will go away. I assume he is looking at that future and thinking he needs to divest himself of the physical side of content delivery before he can't (at a decent price), and it may already be too late, who knows?

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:26 am

theohall wrote:I don't know of another service with comparable pricing - outside the disappearing brick and mortar stores - which allows me to rent Deadwood, Rome, or pretty much any other old HBO series.

Side note: A short-term subscription to HBO is probably the most cost-efficient way to get older HBO series. All episodes of all HBO shows are streamable on HBO Go, which is an awesome service.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:27 am

You can say one thing for them - if they wanted to get people talking about their service, mission accomplished.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:32 am

Zaxxon wrote:
theohall wrote:I don't know of another service with comparable pricing - outside the disappearing brick and mortar stores - which allows me to rent Deadwood, Rome, or pretty much any other old HBO series.
Side note: A short-term subscription to HBO is probably the most cost-efficient way to get older HBO series. All episodes of all HBO shows are streamable on HBO Go, which is an awesome service.

And this is where I remind people that not every TV provider signed the blood pact with Time Warner to get the HBO Go service with your HBO channel service. There are some holes. Like Time Warner Cable.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:32 am

That is true. I'm also in the camp of people that think this is probably smarter for a long-term business strategy, ridiculous names aside. By doing this hopefully it will allow them to double-down on the streaming model and refocus their attention on remaining a viable alternative. Without question discs are on the way out and I have to believe over time streaming will be much more cost effective.

We've been DirecTV customers for over a decade now and every year for the past 5 or so they reward us with a free 3 months subscription to Showtime or some other premium movie channel. Well this year we were given a 3 month subscription to the DirecTV gaming channel which would have allowed us to to play Angry Birds or Bejeweled with our receiver remote. This leads me to believe the profit margins on those premium channels are razor thin because all of them are now looking to stream their own content.

It's going to be an interesting few years, that's for sure.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:34 am

Isgrimnur wrote:
Zaxxon wrote:
theohall wrote:I don't know of another service with comparable pricing - outside the disappearing brick and mortar stores - which allows me to rent Deadwood, Rome, or pretty much any other old HBO series.
Side note: A short-term subscription to HBO is probably the most cost-efficient way to get older HBO series. All episodes of all HBO shows are streamable on HBO Go, which is an awesome service.
And this is where I remind people that not every TV provider signed the blood pact with Time Warner to get the HBO Go service with your HBO channel service. There are some holes. Like Time Warner Cable.

In a similar situation - so... DVDs for me.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:35 am

I don't think it is a 'For Sale' sign just yet. You don't do that and then add significant extra infrastructure and licensing (by adding video games.)

I'm guessing that they're setting themselves up for the possibility of a future sale, but right now they want to play around with the physical media end of their business. They want to experiment with the business and see if they can find a way to make it more profitable and popular. If they succeed, great. If not, they're already lined up for the sale.

In the meantime, though, they don't want their experiments going over badly and reflecting on their streaming business.

Personally, I can't see myself taking advantage of the video game service unless the price is really, really good. I tried Gamefly. $15 a month with a one-week turnaround meant that we ended up with one game a month for $15. That's silly when many used games cost less than $15. With three gamers in the house (myself and two kids), each of us was lucky to get one game of our choosing every few months.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:43 am

Ah ha ha ha.... Classic!

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:46 am

theohall wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:
Zaxxon wrote:
theohall wrote:I don't know of another service with comparable pricing - outside the disappearing brick and mortar stores - which allows me to rent Deadwood, Rome, or pretty much any other old HBO series.
Side note: A short-term subscription to HBO is probably the most cost-efficient way to get older HBO series. All episodes of all HBO shows are streamable on HBO Go, which is an awesome service.
And this is where I remind people that not every TV provider signed the blood pact with Time Warner to get the HBO Go service with your HBO channel service. There are some holes. Like Time Warner Cable.
In a similar situation - so... DVDs for me.

This brings me back to the 'horrid dichotomy between the streaming/circular disc landscape' problem. Ugh.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:52 am

Grundbegriff wrote:Ah ha ha ha.... Classic!

The blog TechCrunch rounded up some of the best tweets making fun of the @Qwikster situation:

"Pretty sure @netflix can score that @qwikster twitter handle for a dime bag and some porno mags," a Twitter user name @mat wrote.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:53 am

Odin wrote:
Freezer-TPF- wrote:If I read the CEO's message correctly, I'm interpreting this as a corporate split, where they'll each be separate companies.

Uh, I doubt this given all the regulatory/SEC filings that would have been required first. You tell your customers this before you tell your investors? A corporate blog is not how you normally announce such things