Can we start calling them MEO's now?

Ridah · Post by **Ridah** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:35 pm

I was sitting on the crapper, reading an issue of PC Gamer for the first time in a while, and I noticed for the World of Warcraft ads they label it a Massively Epic Online. That's it. I like the idea of cutting out some letters from the standard MMORPG, so can we start calling them MEO now? I know it looks goofy, like were trying to say meow, but that's alright because its gonna save us time

bluefugue · Post by **bluefugue** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:06 am

Well, it doesn't sound very "neutral" to me -- Epic is a sort of value judgment term -- so I'm not crazy about it.

It does flow better though. There's no way to verbalize the acronym MMORPG and it takes too long to spell out the letters. I've just settled on calling them "MMOs" (pronounced em-em-oes) for the time being.

Huw the Poo · Post by **Huw the Poo** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:31 am

bluefugue wrote:There's no way to verbalize the acronym MMORPG

I've always said "more-pig".

Eduardo X · Post by **Eduardo X** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:33 am

The film "Troy" was an epic, and it sucked. But, to call it anything but epic would be a misnomer.
I think this is a different story with WoW.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:36 am

Eduardo X wrote:The film "Troy" was an epic, and it sucked. But, to call it anything but epic would be a misnomer.
I think this is a different story with WoW.

Now see I enjoyed Troy. I wanted big battles, I got big battles.

When discussing gaming verbally I usually skip the MM and just say 'online rpg.' When typing it isn't all that difficult for me to type MMORPG. MEO makes me think I'm trying to say meow or make up some new head-of-the-company abbreviation. CEO, MEO, same thing.

bluefugue · Post by **bluefugue** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:57 am

Massively Executive Officer?

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:34 am

bluefugue wrote:Massively Executive Officer?

Middle Earth Online

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:39 pm

Must Evade Obfuscation

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:52 pm

Sith Lord wrote:Must Evade Obfuscation

I think you mean "Embrace"

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:23 pm

coopasonic wrote:
Sith Lord wrote:Must Evade Obfuscation
I think you mean "Embrace"

Actually no. I think MEO is a lousy and confusing acronym and I'm seeking to avoid it

Sith

caesarbear · Post by **caesarbear** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:43 pm

how about just MOG?

Orpheo · Post by **Orpheo** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:16 pm

Half man, half dog. I'm my own best friend!

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:56 pm

This would be funny if it was populate by a bunch of cats or furries.

Then we can call it Kitty's MEOw.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:02 pm

Here's my take

WoM

Waste of Money!

$60 for a game and then $15/month, + $20-$40 add-on packs?!?... at least the Add-On packs don't have an additional monthly fee associated with them.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:02 pm

The word you're looking for there is "scary" not "funny"

Programmer · Post by **Programmer** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:02 pm

caesarbear wrote:how about just MOG?

That sounds good. Cute and short. It removes all the redundancy from MMORPG - sort of an Occam's Razor approach

The "Massive" part of MMORPG is pretty arbitrary and meaningless, so that can go (I'm assuming here that the suggestion stands for "Multiplayer Online Game" of course and not "Massive Online Game"!). And the term "RPG" is so ill-defined (comparing hardcore gamers, casual gamers, and non-gamers) that I think it should go too. Most people I know associate "RPG" with D&D.

MOG still sounds a bit funny when spoken aloud, though - it looks better in print. I think that "online game", while a bit broad and not an acronym, is ungeeky enough to catch on with normal folks and does at least distinguish between traditional standalone PC games and network-enabled stuff.

Ridah · Post by **Ridah** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:25 pm

Ok so we've at least established that we don't have to call them MMORPG's any longer right? I really think we shouls try MEO on for size, just imagine saying Neo (from Matrix)... not so bad eh?

Dhruin · Post by **Dhruin** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:51 pm

Actually, I think the "Massively" serves some purpose. NWN persistent worlds are online RPGs that aren't "massive", so it serves to draw a line between merely an online game (even the likes of Battlefield 1942) and one that has a persistent world for thiusands of simultaneous players.

bluefugue · Post by **bluefugue** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:51 pm

Programmer wrote:
caesarbear wrote:how about just MOG?
That sounds good. Cute and short. It removes all the redundancy from MMORPG - sort of an Occam's Razor approach

The "Massive" part of MMORPG is pretty arbitrary and meaningless, so that can go (I'm assuming here that the suggestion stands for "Multiplayer Online Game" of course and not "Massive Online Game"!). And the term "RPG" is so ill-defined (comparing hardcore gamers, casual gamers, and non-gamers) that I think it should go too. Most people I know associate "RPG" with D&D.

MOG still sounds a bit funny when spoken aloud, though - it looks better in print. I think that "online game", while a bit broad and not an acronym, is ungeeky enough to catch on with normal folks and does at least distinguish between traditional standalone PC games and network-enabled stuff.

Nice avatar!

But isn't "multiplayer online game" still redundant? I mean, the general point of having an online game is to be multiplayer. Unless we're talking about Steam.

"Massively" I suppose is meant to distinguish a multiplayer game with a population of thousands, from say UT2k4 with a 16-person Onslaught map. I think it is meaningful.

How about Persistent World Online Game. PWOG!!

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:06 pm

I'd suggest Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game - MMORPG - but I can't imagine it would ever catch on.

caesarbear · Post by **caesarbear** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:47 pm

I'd say "online" precludes the need for "multiplayer". There should be a distinction from MMMORPGs and the likes of UT/BF/LFS/Blockland. The RP in RPG seems to be often left behind, plus something like Enigma or WWII on-line doesn't fit the RPG category but is still in the MMORPG category. So if it's "massive", fine. "Epic" doesn't seem to add anything if you have "massive". "Game" is almost a shoe-in, but sometimes "chat-room" might be a better descriptor. So perhaps "world" to emphasize that "massive" or "epic" part instead of "game".
That makes:
MOW
or maybe
EMG
or yet
OEW

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:42 pm

caesarbear wrote: That makes:
MOW

YEEES! Then I could say to my wife when she asks what I plan to do with myself on some Saturday afternoon, "Well, I've got some mow'ing to do."

Brilliant!

Programmer · Post by **Programmer** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:02 am

Hmm, some good points being made. I suggested that the word "massively" could go, but it is useful to distinguish large communities from small events, and I suggested that "multiplayer" should stay, when it's really already implied.

I bow to the greater wisdom.

I'm not sure there is a single good acronym for all the types of online games on the market and in development.

I'd like to get to the essence, the nucleus, perhaps even the molten lava core of the issue I have with the term "MMORPG". It's the word "game". Many people see games, especially video games, as nerdy and frivolous pastimes steeped in the era of early Atari and Nintendo. But they're more than that to me, damn it - they're beautiful virtual worlds and fantastic alternate realities, technological and artistic marvels which I, living on the cusp of the 21st century, am honored to be a part of. I see people scrunch up their faces in simultaneous disgust and pity when I tell them I'm staying in on a Saturday night to play "video games". I say they're missing out on some of the finest experiences in the history of life on this planet. 8)

Plus, MMORPG is long, klunky, and hard to say.

Kyosho · Post by **Kyosho** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:56 am

bluefugue wrote:How about Persistent World Online Game. PWOG!!

Or just POG. Or POW, but that would confuse people. Prisoner of War, or people might think I'm Batman...POW! THWAP! Etc.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:42 am

Programmer wrote:I'd like to get to the essence, the nucleus, perhaps even the molten lava core of the issue I have with the term "MMORPG". It's the word "game". Many people see games, especially video games, as nerdy and frivolous pastimes steeped in the era of early Atari and Nintendo. But they're more than that to me, damn it - they're beautiful virtual worlds and fantastic alternate realities, technological and artistic marvels which I, living on the cusp of the 21st century, am honored to be a part of. I see people scrunch up their faces in simultaneous disgust and pity when I tell them I'm staying in on a Saturday night to play "video games". I say they're missing out on some of the finest experiences in the history of life on this planet. 8)

No name is going to change that. Only time can. Video games and computers in general were for serious nerds in the 70's and 80's. By the 90's, computers were in every household, and things like IM started to be popular with everybody. So the barrier between "normal/cool" people and technology has begun to drop. Add to that games like The Sims and mainstream popularity grows further. NOW, factor in the number of little kids you know who play computer games - Dora the Explorer or whatever - it's most of them, right? They'll be favorably disposed toward computer games as they grow up - it'll just be part of life for them.

The generation that reviled and ridiculed video games and those who play them is dying out. We're on the cusp of not just popularity and acceptance for video games, but of a culture that assumes video games will be a part of their life. On their computer, on their TV, on their cell phones, on their Gameboys and probably before too long strapped directly to their faces

So when you're staying in to play WoW on a Saturday night and your friends give you a hard time, just smile and nod, knowing that when they're old and grey, sitting around the home wishing the grandkids would come visit, you'll be that cool old guy with the 274th level Arch-wizard that everybody wants to hang out with because he can make that awesome staff that nobody else has the reagents for.

Sith

bluefugue · Post by **bluefugue** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:37 am

I dunno, I think Atari videogames were pretty mainstream in the 80s. Mainly for kids though. Ditto Nintendo. Both of those brands had massive market penetration but focused on a younger demographic.

And don't forget the arcades, Pac Man Fever, etc.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:05 am

bluefugue wrote:I dunno, I think Atari videogames were pretty mainstream in the 80s. Mainly for kids though. Ditto Nintendo. Both of those brands had massive market penetration but focused on a younger demographic.

And don't forget the arcades, Pac Man Fever, etc.

Oh, I'm not forgetting them, but they never seemed really pervasive to me. I mean, it was just another toy to most people. Sure it was a popular toy, but just because pet rocks were popular once didn't turn many people into geologists. I think the difference now is the ubiquity of computer technology. Like I said, games are everywhere - even cell phones and such. College kids sporting laptops have games all over them. I just think they're going to be more a part of life for the current generation (Gen Y, I think they're calling it) than they ever have been in the past.

Sith

bluefugue · Post by **bluefugue** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:21 am

True, it was more faddish back in the day, for adults anyway.

Programmer · Post by **Programmer** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:56 pm

Sith Lord wrote:
Programmer wrote:I'd like to get to the essence, the nucleus, perhaps even the molten lava core of the issue I have with the term "MMORPG". It's the word "game". Many people see games, especially video games, as nerdy and frivolous pastimes steeped in the era of early Atari and Nintendo. But they're more than that to me, damn it - they're beautiful virtual worlds and fantastic alternate realities, technological and artistic marvels which I, living on the cusp of the 21st century, am honored to be a part of. I see people scrunch up their faces in simultaneous disgust and pity when I tell them I'm staying in on a Saturday night to play "video games". I say they're missing out on some of the finest experiences in the history of life on this planet. 8)
No name is going to change that. Only time can.
<SNIP>
So when you're staying in to play WoW on a Saturday night and your friends give you a hard time, just smile and nod, knowing that when they're old and grey, sitting around the home wishing the grandkids would come visit, you'll be that cool old guy with the 274th level Arch-wizard that everybody wants to hang out with because he can make that awesome staff that nobody else has the reagents for.

Sith

That cool old grandpa is gonna be me for sure 8)

It just seems to me that the term "game" is now an anachronism. It implies an activity involving a set of rules to be followed until a winner is declared. Early video games were very much in this mold, but the reason I play games today is much less about rules and winning and much more about an immersive alternate reality, and it's been that way since I first stepped in to the world of Ultima IV. Now 20 years later, Half-Life 2 continues to draw me in like only the very best books and movies can, and I think it's just as big an artistic achievement.

But the word "game" will probably live on for many years despite my ranting, and like you say, over time it will morph in to a word with much more gravity and mainstream appeal. Alternatives like "interactive entertainment", "virtual worlds", and "alternate realities" are all more descriptive to me, but they sound a bit new-agey and perhaps even more nerdy.

Anyways, as technology and video gaming become ever more ubiquitous, the geeks shall quickly inherit the earth and the whole issue just fades away. What issue? you may be asking yourself by now. Hmmm... I've sorta lost track too. I'll stop babbling

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:54 pm

You're definitely hung up on the name, yeah. And maybe it will change at some point, but I doubt it. At most certain types of entertainment that don't exist yet might get a name so new and different and popular that people adopt it, rather than just using the term game for it even if it seems similar to what we'd consider a game today. If so, it would more likely come from the name of the DEVICE used to provide it than from the nature of the entertainment itself. If, for instance, you need to connect a crystal to a jack in your neck, which then lets you enter a virtual world, people might just start saying "I'm going to jack in for a little while. Message me if you want me" - and it would be assumed that WHILE you were jacked in, you'd be playing a game or something similar. It might even lead to conversations like "Where will you be? Well, I definitely want to check out the 1967 world series, but after that I'll probably be in the Arcade." I've lost track of where I was going with this. Stupid phone.

Sith

Programmer · Post by **Programmer** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:36 pm

Sith Lord wrote:You're definitely hung up on the name, yeah.
<SNIP>

Sith

I know, it's just that lately I've noticed how people react when I tell them that I play video games in my spare time, and I don't get looks of admiration or even passing interest from most of them. If only they knew the truth, the beauty, the sheer unadulterated...

Ah, screw 'em. That's why I hang out here

bluefugue · Post by **bluefugue** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:09 pm

Yeah, where else could someone instantly identify that your avatar is from Ultima IV and shows you standing by Britanny Bay with the towne of Britain to the southwest, and the Castle of Lord British to the southeast...

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:49 pm

Programmer wrote:
Sith Lord wrote:You're definitely hung up on the name, yeah.
I know, it's just that lately I've noticed how people react when I tell them that I play video games in my spare time,

You know the old joke where the guy tells the doctor "it hurts when I do this"?

Programmer · Post by **Programmer** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:33 pm

bluefugue wrote:Yeah, where else could someone instantly identify that your avatar is from Ultima IV and shows you standing by Britanny Bay with the towne of Britain to the southwest, and the Castle of Lord British to the southeast...

Well-remembered, but that one was too easy! Nice use of "towne" too - a lesser gamer would have called it a "town" I'm sure

I'm gonna dig up a more obscure Ultima screenshot and create a new, slighty more puzzling avatar.

The funny thing is, that tiny avatar image contains only slightly less detail than the full-screen game on my Apple II.

Thoroughly off-topic now, sorry to the thread starter!

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:35 pm

Programmer wrote: Thoroughly off-topic now, sorry to the thread starter!

Bah, he hasn't been in here in 23 hours. He's lost all control of this thread. Go wild!

Programmer · Post by **Programmer** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:12 pm

Sith Lord wrote:
Programmer wrote: Thoroughly off-topic now, sorry to the thread starter!
Bah, he hasn't been in here in 23 hours. He's lost all control of this thread. Go wild!

OK. Maybe not "wild" per se, but here goes:

How do I save my little avatar image in .jpg format without the colors washing out. My original bitmap has bright blue water and lush green grass, while the .jpg'd version has lost all its lustre. I tried enhancing the colors before converting, but they're already almost saturated. Are jpgs just teh suck? For the love of all that is good and holy, what can I do?

Here's the source image in case anyone is obscenely bored and wants to try it for themselves:
http://yach.tri6.net/ultima/pic/ultima4.gif

Ha ha, that'll teach Ridah to leave a thread unattended.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:30 pm

Well, I'm no expert, but jpeg is a lossey file format - it will sacrifice image quality in favor of compression and such. But if you use a good image editor (which I don't have, or I'd give it a shot) you should be able to strike a balance between the size of the file and the quality of the image.

Sith

Ridah · Post by **Ridah** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:01 pm

j00 guys fucked my my theadx0r AHHHH! Die you heathen spawns of SATAAAAAAN!

I've been checking it out, I don't mind you guys working your stuff out in my thread.