Octopus Overlords

Anyone selling cigarettes flavored with cloves, fruit – anything but menthol – is a criminal under a ban that marks the first assault in a new war on tobacco.

The law, enacted this summer and kicking in today, directs the FDA to crack down on candy and fruit-flavored cigarettes that public health officials say turn children into life-long nicotine addicts.

silverjon wrote:Why is menthol ok? Because they're for the ladies?

szgany wrote:E-cigarette smoking?

Ironrod wrote:

szgany wrote:E-cigarette smoking?

Wait. What?

szgany wrote:I wonder how this will affect my E-cigarette smoking? I currently have sitting next to me Banana Nut, Butterscotch and Root Beer flavored juices. Of course these things are made with food flavoring, and I doubt the FDA is going to shut down LorAnn oils and take vegetable glycerin off of the market.

Smoove_B wrote:As long as I can still smoke Smarties no one will get hurt.

Ironrod wrote:You kids can smoke your banana peels, I'm sticking with cigars.

szgany wrote:Don't tell me that, with all the FDA hub-bub surrounding them, you fellows haven't heard of Electronic Cigarettes. Basically, the E-cig is a device that is about the length of a cigarette (some are smaller/larger), which consists of a battery, atomizer and a tip which is filled with a poly-fiber material that holds liquid. The tip fits into the atomizer (which in turn screws into the battery), where the poly-fiber makes contact with an element inside, which heats up and atomizes the liquid. and you inhale the vapor into your lungs, the way you would a normal cigarette.

The liquids themselves vary somewhat in what is used to make them. The majority break down to liquid nicotine of varying degrees (from 0 to 36mg), flavorings and either vegetable glycerin or polyethylene glycol.

The plus side is no cancer (potentially), no carcinogens (the FDA is arguing against this, since one of the pre-filled tips/cartridges was supposedly tested positive for 1 carcinogen, although that is still up in the air), a ton of flavors, and it technically isn't illegal to smoke them in most places. I work in a city building and we are allowed to smoke them inside. In fact, this thing rarely leave my mouth throughout the day.

Downside. They can be somewhat messy, as the juice can leak a bit through the tip when you draw on it, and the quality control is non-existant. The atomizers can burn out after the first hit, or they can last months (my current one has been going strong for three months). The batteries are the same way, some seem to hold a charge well for months, other stop holding one after a few days.

Price wise the cost is minimal compared to actual smoking. A starter DSE-901 kit will run about $40, and most juice is about $20 for 30ml. I tend to mix my own juices by buying unflavored VG ($2 per 30ml), flavorings ($4 bucks a pop, a little bit of this stuff goes a long way, as you only need a couple of drops when mixing in small doses), and nicotine ($15-20 per 30ml) if you decide to use it (I mix batches with and without it, depending on my mood). Basically, for the price of one carton of smokes, you can get a kit that can potentially last for a month or two, depending on your luck getting a good device and your smoking habits.

You can get more information on the devices and read what the users of them are saying at E-Cigarette Forum.

szgany wrote:I had the same conversation with a co-worker a few weeks ago. He believes that is the impetus behind the FDA drive to get rid of these things. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if the device was already being used for that purpose, although I have yet to read about anyone doing so.

The Food and Drug Administration said Thursday that it will propose a policy to ban menthol cigarettes and all flavored cigars within a year.

The agency released the plan in response to a court-ordered deadline. It has long faced calls to act on menthol cigarettes, which are disproportionately smoked by Black Americans and teens just starting to use tobacco.
...
Momentum for banning menthol cigarettes has grown over the past several years, with lawmakers and public health groups pointing to decades of targeted marketing toward Black communities.

“Banning menthol — the last allowable flavor — in cigarettes and banning all flavors in cigars will help save lives, particularly among those disproportionately affected by these deadly products,” acting FDA Commissioner Janet Woodcock said in a statement.

More than 85 percent of Black Americans who smoke report using menthol products. But critics of the ban argue that it will trigger a black market that could exacerbate over-policing and violence against those communities.
...
A study cited by FDA suggests that banning menthol cigarettes in the U.S. would lead roughly 923,000 smokers to quit, including 230,000 Black Americans, in the first year and a half. Another study projects that 633,000 tobacco-related deaths would be averted.

Jaymann wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:58 pm The ban is a good move, but I doubt menthol smokers will just quit. Black market, vaping & other alternatives will pick up most of the slack.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:48 pm I was actually waiting for this to hit the news cycles. I'm quite curious to see if the right wing / conservative / freedom-loving lunatics pick up on the story and start railing against the government taking away their right to choose menthol.

Something tells me that no, they won't, mainly because of the target demographics for menthol products. I guess we'll see.

noxiousdog wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:29 pmThis is classic "I don't like it so ban it." Banning alcohol or fast food would save far more lives, but too many people like those. It's clear abuse of the majority.

Anyone that support this, but legalizing marijuana, is a hypocrite.

People have the right to do stupid stuff.

noxiousdog wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:29 pm I, for one, think it's absolutely ludicrous.

This is classic "I don't like it so ban it." Banning alcohol or fast food would save far more lives, but too many people like those. It's clear abuse of the majority.

People have the right to do stupid stuff.

malchior wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:07 pmMaybe it isn't wise policy but abuse of what?

How? The relationship to hypocrisy is not clear at all. There are completely different rationales at play here.

Activities are regulated all the time. Some drugs are illegal. Others aren't. What "right" are you referring to here?

noxiousdog wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:42 pm It's capricious and based on popularity.

dbt1949 wrote:I smoke many ages ago. I started off smoking menthols. The taste was easier to take than standard cigarettes. But I switched to regular ones after a few years as I figured they could put the worst tobacco in them and you'd never know.
Anyrate the switch over was no big deal and I really don't see it having much effect on dedicated smokers.
BTW I quit cold turkey back in 1977.

noxiousdog wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:42 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:07 pmMaybe it isn't wise policy but abuse of what?

Abuse of the minority by the majority.

How? The relationship to hypocrisy is not clear at all. There are completely different rationales at play here.

Not really. This is one of those gray area items that's now unpopular. So it can be outlawed. Marijuana is now popular, so it's being legalized. It's capricious and based on popularity.

Activities are regulated all the time. Some drugs are illegal. Others aren't. What "right" are you referring to here?

We aren't talking regulated. We're talking about a ban. And we find over and over again bans don't work... especially for gray area dangerous stuff.

So here's what happens. The government outlaws it. It goes underground. And people die from non-regulated chemicals. Great.

noxiousdog wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:34 am If someone can put forth a legitimate argument about how Twinkies and McDonald's are less dangerous than menthol cigarettes, I'll listen. Other than that, y'all have heard my piece.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:43 am Tobacco, alcohol and fast food are all problematic. This is an effort to undo decades of targeted sales.

noxiousdog wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:06 am Signed, Happy Meals.

noxiousdog wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:06 am

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:43 am Tobacco, alcohol and fast food are all problematic. This is an effort to undo decades of targeted sales.

Signed, high fructose corn syrup, advertising, and Happy Meals.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:08 am

noxiousdog wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:06 am Signed, Happy Meals.

Does McDonalds change the food that goes in Happy Meals (does any restaurant offer chemically different food on their child menu)? If we should ban anything, it's the toy.

Smoove_B wants to ban children's toys!

Holman wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:09 am

noxiousdog wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:06 am

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:43 am Tobacco, alcohol and fast food are all problematic. This is an effort to undo decades of targeted sales.

Signed, high fructose corn syrup, advertising, and Happy Meals.

Have you been inside of an elementary school in the past few decades? Their walls are plastered with government-supplied messaging about the importance of healthy eating and avoiding junk/fast food. It's not like the issue is being ignored.